• Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy

    From Digital Man@VERT to TechDorks on Tue Jul 28 09:25:18 2015
    Audio synchronization fixed, but no noise gate used this week (sorry). Miscellaneous topics including SyncTERM, Apple Watch and Windows Phone. Enjoy!

    http://mp3.techdorks.net/episodes/techdorks-2015-07-28-ep3.mp3

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #31:
    The second most prolific contributor to Synchronet is Stephen Hurd (Deuce). Norco, CA WX: 62.5°F, 89.0% humidity, 3 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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  • From Echicken@VERT to TechDorks on Tue Jul 28 18:15:31 2015
    These podcasts have been strangely amusing to listen to.

    I just wasted a bunch of time reading about various Windows phones throughout the ages. I'm not sure what I expected, but it wasn't a very interesting process.

    Regarding SyncTERM, maybe it could allow for user-configurable keybindings. (This isn't a feature that I care about, but it might resolve the complaint that Deuce mentioned.)

    Website suggestions:

    Drop the Subject field from the Comments area in episode.ssjs, or add a line break between the Subject and the comment textarea.

    Use something other than Stocktastic - maybe a nice Nightshade theme. Or HotDogStand - I could bring that back.

    You could probably combine the Home and Episodes pages into one, perhaps with a smaller version of your graphic at the top. The current Home page isn't really doing much.

    ---
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Echicken on Tue Jul 28 21:13:07 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Echicken to TechDorks on Tue Jul 28 2015 02:15 pm

    These podcasts have been strangely amusing to listen to.

    Strangely amusing? We've been called consistently strange and occasionally amusing, but together in one sentence? Wow. Glad you're still with us. :-)

    I just wasted a bunch of time reading about various Windows phones throughout the ages. I'm not sure what I expected, but it wasn't a very interesting process.

    I think Deuce is still the only person I know to own one. I had some nieces with Windows phones a while back, but they've since "upgraded" to Android devices. Most of my friends and family have iPhones now.

    Regarding SyncTERM, maybe it could allow for user-configurable keybindings. (This isn't a feature that I care about, but it might resolve the complaint that Deuce mentioned.)

    Yeah. That's how I solved that problem with Synchronet. Sysops or users didn't want 'O' for logoff (for example), but I didn't to change my habits to suit their whims, so I first added configurable key-bindings in v1 (which was awkward and not reflected in any menus or anything) and then in v2, added command shells which could actually emulate, within reason, the system they were used to. With SyncTERM, I think a simple key-mapping would suffice and be pretty easy to do. Deuce, I'm sure, feels differently.

    Website suggestions:

    Drop the Subject field from the Comments area in episode.ssjs, or add a line break between the Subject and the comment textarea.

    Use something other than Stocktastic - maybe a nice Nightshade theme. Or HotDogStand - I could bring that back.

    You could probably combine the Home and Episodes pages into one, perhaps with a smaller version of your graphic at the top. The current Home page isn't really doing much.

    All very good suggestions. I think yours is our first web-posting (using techdorks.net) and I noticed that the "security headers" are missing from the message. These header fields identify the sending client (hostname, IP address,
    etc.) and the protocol used (in this case, I'm assuming HTTP). Since we're using ecWeb, this does concern you, Mr. Chicken. :-)

    I'm guessing this is because the call to MsgBase.save_msg() isn't being passed a "client" instance (from where it pulls the data for the security header fields). I'll see if I have time for a look-see, but it sounds like a quick'n'easy fix, if you're so inclined.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #23:
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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Echicken on Tue Jul 28 20:49:43 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Echicken to TechDorks on Tue Jul 28 2015 02:15 pm

    Regarding SyncTERM, maybe it could allow for user-configurable keybindings. (This isn't a feature that I care about, but it might resolve the complaint that Deuce mentioned.)

    Yeah, if it ends up being simple in the 2.x timeframe, I may add it. On the other hand, configurable key-bindings makes it much more difficult to help people out. It's most likely to appear in the same timeframe as client-side scripting (assuming it does appear).

    Drop the Subject field from the Comments area in episode.ssjs, or add a line break between the Subject and the comment textarea.

    Yeah, I had initially played with that, but wanted to hold off a bit until I saw if people changed the subject at all. This is much more likely to happen with posts through the web interface than posts via DOVE-Net.

    Use something other than Stocktastic - maybe a nice Nightshade theme. Or HotDogStand - I could bring that back.

    Deuce just codes, he does not make things pretty -- Vagabond.

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to TechDorks on Wed Jul 29 01:02:42 2015
    This is just a test of the web-interface posting, to see if the recent enhancement ('client' object finding for security header fields) works as intended.

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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to Digital Man on Wed Jul 29 00:49:49 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Digital Man to Echicken on Tue Jul 28 2015 05:13 pm

    With SyncTERM, I think a simple key-mapping would suffice and be pretty easy to do. Deuce, I'm sure, feels differently.

    I've never seen a key-mapping interface I really liked. The whole menu system to do that is what would be painful, not the code to handle configured key maps.

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Deuce on Wed Jul 29 02:29:56 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Deuce to Digital Man on Tue Jul 28 2015 08:49 pm

    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Digital Man to Echicken on Tue Jul 28 2015 05:13 pm

    With SyncTERM, I think a simple key-mapping would suffice and be pretty easy to do. Deuce, I'm sure, feels differently.

    I've never seen a key-mapping interface I really liked. The whole menu system to do that is what would be painful, not the code to handle configured key maps.

    You could start with just a separate .ini file and then (maybe) add menu-based editing of those ini values later. Just an idea, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't change any of the key mappings myself. They're very similar to Telix, which is what I was most used to before using HyperTerminal for a long time.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #77:
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  • From Digital Man@VERT to TechDorks on Wed Jul 29 02:32:48 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Digital Man to TechDorks on Tue Jul 28 2015 05:25 am

    Audio synchronization fixed, but no noise gate used this week (sorry).

    Also absent in this episode was the use of amplitude compression and after giving it a listen in the car, I won't be making that mistake again. Sorry, if it's hard for you all to hear us (especially me) in parts.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #68:
    You can purchase the BBS Documentary DVD set at http://bbsdocumentary.com/order/
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  • From echicken to Digital Man on Wed Jul 29 15:37:28 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Digital Man to Echicken on Tue Jul 28 2015 17:13:07

    techdorks.net) and I noticed that the "security headers" are missing from the message. These header fields identify the sending client (hostname, IP address, etc.) and the protocol used (in this case, I'm assuming HTTP).

    I'm guessing this is because the call to MsgBase.save_msg() isn't being passed a "client" instance (from where it pulls the data for the security

    I can offer a 99% guarantee that no 'client' instance is being passed to MsgBase.save_msg() in whatever part of ecweb saves a message. I didn't even know that was a thing that could/should be done. Would be an easy fix if that's all that's needed.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
  • From echicken to Deuce on Wed Jul 29 15:40:46 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Deuce to Echicken on Tue Jul 28 2015 16:49:43

    Yeah, I had initially played with that, but wanted to hold off a bit until I saw if people changed the subject at all. This is much more likely to happen with posts through the web interface than posts via DOVE-Net.

    It's not a bad thing to have, it just seemed a bit unusual on the web side of things. (I'm not used to 'comments' areas having per-comment subjects.)

    However, the subject input-box appeared to the left of the comment textarea in my browser yesterday, and was shortened. Would look better if it were forced to be above the textarea.

    But now that I've discovered that you're using the Entertainment sub, I'm just replying from my BBS. That web shit is for suckers.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
  • From echicken to Deuce on Wed Jul 29 15:43:45 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Deuce to Digital Man on Tue Jul 28 2015 20:49:49

    I've never seen a key-mapping interface I really liked. The whole menu

    I've never seen a key-mapping interface that stirred much of a reaction in me either way. Usually it's just a two-column table, which does the job.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
  • From Digital Man@VERT to echicken on Wed Jul 29 18:37:18 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: echicken to Digital Man on Wed Jul 29 2015 11:37 am

    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Digital Man to Echicken on Tue Jul 28 2015 17:13:07

    techdorks.net) and I noticed that the "security headers" are missing from the message. These header fields identify the sending client (hostname, IP address, etc.) and the protocol used (in this case, I'm assuming HTTP).

    I'm guessing this is because the call to MsgBase.save_msg() isn't being passed a "client" instance (from where it pulls the data for the security

    I can offer a 99% guarantee that no 'client' instance is being passed to MsgBase.save_msg() in whatever part of ecweb saves a message. I didn't even know that was a thing that could/should be done. Would be an easy fix if that's all that's needed.

    Deuce committed an enhancement to the MsgBase.save_msg() function which will "find" the global "client" object if no client object was passed as an argument, so you don't have to change anything. For backward compatiblity, it'd
    be a good idea to just add that "client" argument to calls to MsgBase.save_msg(), but it's not critical.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #1:
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    Norco, CA WX: 87.9°F, 50.0% humidity, 15 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

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  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to echicken on Wed Jul 29 22:34:12 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: echicken to Deuce on Wed Jul 29 2015 11:40:46

    But now that I've discovered that you're using the Entertainment sub, I'm ju replying from my BBS. That web shit is for suckers.

    Damn. I guess that means that there isn't going to be some sort of fix for setting that last read message pointer, threaded messages or no. :'C

    -D/K

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Thu Jul 30 02:20:17 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Digital Man to TechDorks on Tue Jul 28 2015 05:25:18

    Audio synchronization fixed, but no noise gate used this week (sorry). Miscellaneous topics including SyncTERM, Apple Watch and Windows Phone. Enjoy!

    http://mp3.techdorks.net/episodes/techdorks-2015-07-28-ep3.mp3

    I've known maybe one person who had a Windows phone. He was really into it and really liked it.

    Also, I've had the same thought you had about the curved TVs on the market these days - Flat-screen TVs were a big thing, and now they have new TVs that are curved the other way. I'll probably be buying a new TV in a little while, so I've had a look at some of those. I'm not sure how much benefit those curved TVs have though.

    Nightfox

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  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Jul 30 04:39:24 2015
    Re: Episode 3: Kibibits and Mebibits and Little Lambs Eat Ivy
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Wed Jul 29 2015 10:20 pm

    I've known maybe one person who had a Windows phone. He was really into it and really liked it.


    i know a guy who has one. he's a real technical guy and he liked his phone.

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  • From echicken to Khelair on Thu Jul 30 15:22:21 2015
    Re: web shit is for suckers
    By: Khelair to echicken on Wed Jul 29 2015 18:34:12

    Damn. I guess that means that there isn't going to be some sort of fix for setting that last read message pointer, threaded messages or no. :'C

    It wouldn't be a fix as much as an added feature (it's not as if ecweb is meant to do this right now yet doesn't.)

    Because it's a pointer and not a per-user per-message read/unread flag, I'm not crazy about what the reality of this feature would look like. By clicking on the top thread in a given sub, which would contain the newest message, you would essentially mark all previous messages as "read". It'd be like jumping to the last message in a sub from the prompt on the terminal side, except not as obvious since you're not browsing messages sequentially.

    But then again I rarely use the web interface and this wouldn't affect me much.
    If this is how people want it to work, then that's how it can be. I don't recall if there was any consensus about the proposed feature.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to echicken on Sat Aug 1 16:16:47 2015
    Re: web shit is for suckers
    By: echicken to Khelair on Thu Jul 30 2015 11:22:21

    It wouldn't be a fix as much as an added feature (it's not as if ecweb
    is meant to do this right now yet doesn't.)

    Yeah, your terminology is definitely more correct. ;)

    Because it's a pointer and not a per-user per-message read/unread flag, I'm not crazy about what the reality of this feature would look like.
    By clicking on the top thread in a given sub, which would contain the newest message, you would essentially mark all previous messages as "read". It'd be like jumping to the last message in a sub from the
    prompt on the terminal side, except not as obvious since you're not browsing messages sequentially.

    Yeah I remember the discussion on the subject and its different pros and cons. I hadn't thought of the fact that threading marking all messages below a current read would mean _all kinds of stuff_ would get marked as read. I don't know, though, maybe this would be the best, if there were a disclaimer and an option to turn it on. That was my thought at the time.

    But then again I rarely use the web interface and this wouldn't affect
    me much.
    If this is how people want it to work, then that's how it can be. I don't recall if there was any consensus about the proposed feature.

    I don't use the web interface at all any more, but I have a couple of users who won't come back until I have it enabled again. I can't do that because of the network that I'm on right now, but when I can do it again the lack of marking of any sort of new reads was really bugging the hell out of them. I think an optional checkbox, signifying that it'll be writing the last_msg pointer or whatever, and that it'll contain messages from other threads below (if threaded) would be a good work around without re-engineering the whole capability of synchronet's MsgBase capabilities.
    I have no idea what kind of consensus there might be, but I'd be interested in finding out, if it's possible.

    -D/K

    ---
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  • From echicken to Khelair on Sun Aug 2 05:20:56 2015
    Re: Re: web shit is for suckers
    By: Khelair to echicken on Sat Aug 01 2015 12:16:47

    cons. I hadn't thought of the fact that threading marking all messages below a current read would mean _all kinds of stuff_ would get marked as read. I don't know, though, maybe this would be the best, if there were a

    What I will probably do is place some kind of indicator on threads that contain new messages. These threads will always be at the top of the list when viewing a sub. Users can start by reading the bottom-most of these threads, then work their way up.

    I used to have a "new message scan" on an old version of ecweb, but it was shitty. The concept didn't carry over to the web very well.

    I don't use the web interface at all any more, but I have a couple of users who won't come back until I have it enabled again. I can't do that

    So you had people who were interested in using your BBS as a discussion forum, but not in the traditional textmode BBS way? That's kind of neat.

    because of the network that I'm on right now, but when I can do it again

    As in ... your ISP won't let you serve a website?

    the lack of marking of any sort of new reads was really bugging the hell

    Fair enough - an indicator for threads containing new messages would help them, but of course pointers would need to be updated for that to be useful.

    out of them. I think an optional checkbox, signifying that it'll be writing the last_msg pointer or whatever, and that it'll contain messages from other threads below (if threaded) would be a good work around without re-engineering the whole capability of synchronet's MsgBase capabilities.

    This would essentially require a 'settings' page to be created, and per-user settings files to be created (as needed) and consulted at various times. It wouldn't be a lot of work, but I feel like it would be a bit clunky and the wording surrounding this particular setting could be confusing. I might rather skip all of that and just update pointers as needed without approval. With appropriate visual cues, I suspect most users would figure it out. (Or not - but if they can't, I won't have much sympathy.)

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to echicken on Mon Aug 3 10:52:06 2015
    Re: Re: web shit is for suckers
    By: echicken to Khelair on Sun Aug 02 2015 01:20:56

    What I will probably do is place some kind of indicator on threads that contain new messages. These threads will always be at the top of the list when viewing a sub. Users can start by reading the bottom-most of these threads, then work their way up.

    Shit, that'd work. I mean, I'm assuming that you're talking about with last_msg/applicable pointer updating too, I mean.

    I used to have a "new message scan" on an old version of ecweb, but it was shitty. The concept didn't carry over to the web very well.

    Yeah I think we discussed that a bit earlier. I never really had thought through some of the real problems that would exist with implementation of it from the web-interface side before that. Were you like AJAXing that or using a static page? And was it threaded? Just curious...

    So you had people who were interested in using your BBS as a discussion forum, but not in the traditional textmode BBS way? That's kind of neat.

    I've got several friends who are tangentially familiar with the BBS scene that are interested in it. Some of them are people who have actually spent time on BBSes in the past; some former users/sysops, most of them users of the DOC/Citadel system that I've gotten to beta on my system finally. The point seems to be that they just don't want the trouble of trying to learn a new text interface, but they want the interaction that I've got on my local forums... So yeah, they want web interface. Though my rolling out of the shell might change that for a significant portion of them. I just need to work on a version that isn't limited to the DOC/Citadel group now... Considering the implementation standards that I'm working with, adding more groups is going to be a lot of fun.

    As in ... your ISP won't let you serve a website?

    Nah, the admin of the network that I'm on. As in my roomie. He's rather.... particular.... about the services that he runs on his network. Doesn't matter that my BBS machine is on OpenBSD, either (not sure how much that really matters except through obscurity anyway, honestly)... it's got 3 ports forwarded to it already and that makes him angsty enough as it is. If you want to flame him for it, I can get him to log in long enough to read yr flames. I just can't do it myself in my situation. :'D
    Honestly if some work gets done on the web interface, he'll be the next user to be using it on my system, because he's one of those ones who doesn't want to learn a new text interface. He'll let it run on the intranet without a problem here, I just won't be able to serve to the public at large until I can get a 2nd connection to the place.

    Fair enough - an indicator for threads containing new messages would help them, but of course pointers would need to be updated for that to be useful.

    This would essentially require a 'settings' page to be created, and per-user settings files to be created (as needed) and consulted at various times. It wouldn't be a lot of work, but I feel like it would be a bit clunky and the wording surrounding this particular setting could be confusing. I might rather skip all of that and just update pointers as needed without approval. With appropriate visual cues, I suspect most users would figure it out. (Or not - but if they can't, I won't have much sympathy.)

    Yeah I guess I was viewing it more as just a lone standing checkbox... I've got a really horrible head for working with UI, though, so my ideas are bound to be somewhat full of Down's a lot of the time on that end.
    The more skipping and limited edition that you're talking about there sounds like a feature that my userbase (okay, 1 new user at first, more as I get a separate ISP connection) would be happy with that would solve the problems. I don't mind disclaiming and explaining the shit to 'em a bit.
    Thanks for even considering this, echicken. I thought you were out of the game on this one. Even if the code doesn't happen, I appreciate the brainstorming, in case I ever become able to do front-end work again myself.
    Best wishes.

    -D/K

    ---
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  • From Deuce@VERT/SYNCNIX to echicken on Tue Aug 4 20:51:54 2015
    Re: Re: web shit is for suckers
    By: echicken to Khelair on Sun Aug 02 2015 01:20 am

    What I will probably do is place some kind of indicator on threads that contain new messages. These threads will always be at the top of the list when viewing a sub. Users can start by reading the bottom-most of these threads, then work their way up.

    The IMAP server has a thing that stores all seen messages (for non-email).

    I'm not sure if I've tested it.

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  • From echicken to Khelair on Wed Aug 5 05:27:10 2015
    Re: Re: web shit is for suckers
    By: Khelair to echicken on Mon Aug 03 2015 06:52:06

    Shit, that'd work. I mean, I'm assuming that you're talking about with last_msg/applicable pointer updating too, I mean.

    Yes - an indicator of which threads contain new messages, then updating them as they are viewed.

    Yeah I think we discussed that a bit earlier. I never really had thought through some of the real problems that would exist with implementation of it from the web-interface side before that. Were you like AJAXing that or using a static page? And was it threaded? Just curious...

    I think that the new message scan that I had did provide a threaded view. IIRC it was pretty clunky. There was probably some AJAX involved, without the AX part. I don't really remember - it was part of the first version I think.

    point seems to be that they just don't want the trouble of trying to learn a new text interface, but they want the interaction that I've got on my

    Well, I guess you need to give the users what they want. Pointing and clicking can be fairly intuitive. All the same, I've yet to meet a textmode BBS interface that stumps me for more than a few seconds - but then again I'm an enthusiast.

    Nah, the admin of the network that I'm on. As in my roomie. He's rather.... particular.... about the services that he runs on his network. ...
    as it is. If you want to flame him for it, I can get him to log in long

    I've hung up my flamethrower for the night, so I'll leave it where it is. I don't see what the big deal would be, but then again I am not as particular as some. I ignore the incessant hack attempts and search-engine crawlers that seem to drive other people around here nuts, and am no worse off for it (so
    far so good, seven or eight years on.)

    Yeah I guess I was viewing it more as just a lone standing checkbox... I've got a really horrible head for working with UI, though, so my ideas

    I'm a bit reticent to introduce a vague "Update pointers?" checbox into the login sidebar module, and likewise to introduce a "Settings" page with only one setting on it. I figure visual cues plus experience should be enough. Others may disagree. I welcome differing opinions, because mine are not strong on this matter.

    Thanks for even considering this, echicken. I thought you were out of the game on this one. Even if the code doesn't happen, I appreciate the

    I'm still around. My time is spread between work and a bunch of other projects, but I will still make bugfixes and feature additions when I can.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
  • From echicken to Deuce on Wed Aug 5 05:29:58 2015
    Re: Re: web shit is for suckers
    By: Deuce to echicken on Tue Aug 04 2015 16:51:54

    The IMAP server has a thing that stores all seen messages (for non-email). I'm not sure if I've tested it.

    Well, if it works and if it could easily be looked up for a given user & message via JS, then we could use it.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to echicken on Sat Aug 8 00:05:52 2015
    Re: Re: web shit is for suckers
    By: echicken to Khelair on Wed Aug 05 2015 01:27:10

    Yes - an indicator of which threads contain new messages, then updating them as they are viewed.

    Hey, if you think you have any method that you might be willing to implement that'll update last_msg, I think it'd be an improvement from what was there before. The biggest complaint that I had from my web users was the fact that if their browser sessions got hosed they had no idea what they'd read and what they hadn't. A few lost messages due to threading or whatever.... I don't think that's a big deal. Or maybe pointer updating only for linear reads? Anything you think might be an improvement I'm all ready to provide my limited help from the sidelines for. ;)

    I think that the new message scan that I had did provide a threaded view. IIRC it was pretty clunky. There was probably some AJAX involved, without the AX part. I don't really remember - it was part of the first version I think.

    It's been a few years since I've used it myself. I remember a threaded view, but not much more than that.

    Well, I guess you need to give the users what they want. Pointing and clicking can be fairly intuitive. All the same, I've yet to meet a textmode BBS interface that stumps me for more than a few seconds - but then again I'm an enthusiast.

    I don't get it either, man. Not in the slightest. One of the most vocal proponents of getting a web interface up since he doesn't want to learn a new text interface has an IQ 10 points higher than mine. I'm not going into where mine is at, I'm not mensa level, but I'm above average a decent bit. He's used Wildcat, DOC/Citadel, BBS100, PCBoard, and a handful of others. He's smart and he groks information quick as fuck. I don't understand why he can't hit a question mark, look at the menu, and handle it that way. He just won't, though, not unless it's a text interface that he already knows. Maybe in his wisened middle 30s that interface area of his brain has already lost all plasticity. I dunno. I would like to make as friendly and full featured an environment as possible for anyone, though. Plus I do have some friends that will log on and take part in discussion that are the type that never really get on text interfaces, but I want to stay in contact with, you know?

    I've hung up my flamethrower for the night, so I'll leave it where it is. I don't see what the big deal would be, but then again I am not as particular as some. I ignore the incessant hack attempts and search-engine crawlers that seem to drive other people around here nuts, and am no worse off for it (so far so good, seven or eight years on.)

    I don't either. I really don't. My flamethrower is hung up for the night, too. Otherwise I could fill a few pages with my rebuttal for not opening up port 80 for me to serve a goddamned synchronet web app. :P I mean at this point we're all pwned at the routers, if nowhere else, anyway, right? He acts like there's a chance with modern technology to get around the NSA's spying, and still to be able to maintain full connectedness. There are several inconsistencies in his arguments. Yet he's a good friend, smart motherfucker, and I think not just my own local message boards, but also DOVE & FIDO would probably benefit from him being around quite a bit. Well, FIDO he'd probably just flame, but he's a software engineer with good experience and a good devops guy; he'd have a great time in discussion in DOVE-Net at least. ;)

    I'm a bit reticent to introduce a vague "Update pointers?" checbox into the login sidebar module, and likewise to introduce a "Settings" page with only one setting on it. I figure visual cues plus experience should be enough. Others may disagree. I welcome differing opinions, because mine are not strong on this matter.

    If you're actually willing to throw something on the table at some point, or a little note above the table to do it at some point, I'd be happy for any particular way that you're able to do any sort of updating to last_msg.

    I'm still around. My time is spread between work and a bunch of other projects, but I will still make bugfixes and feature additions when I can.

    I know how that is. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help out a little bit. I know a lot of the coding is out of my league, but if there's anything else.... yeah that's probably totally empty, but I totally mean it, so that means we're good here, right?
    Best wishes.

    -D/K

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    Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
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