• Re: Smart phone prices

    From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Sep 26 21:37:32 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed Sep 26 2018 08:35 am

    companies bringing jobs back to the US, and Ford promptly responded by saying that they'll keep building the Focus Active, but sell it elsewhere since it wouldn't make money in the US.


    ford took 5.9 billion in loans from the us govt and the cash for clunkers bullshit really boosted them.

    they're full of shit if they think people only want suvs and not sedans. everyone i know is buying sedans. i bought one last year.


    i'll just buy a different brand.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Sep 26 21:40:00 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Chai on Wed Sep 26 2018 08:53 am

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Chai to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Sep 25 2018 09:41 pm

    Are those safe? My understanding is that 3rd party batteries are not often up to safety spec.

    I've used a bunch of them; I like Anker branded batteries, found them to be good.

    anker is a good brand.
    RAVPower is the one that takes regular batteries and formats them to fool your phone into thinking they have more charge. i tore off the label of my ravpower battery and found the true mAh sticker underneath.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wed Sep 26 20:58:21 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Sep 26 2018 05:37 pm

    ford took 5.9 billion in loans from the us govt and the cash for clunkers bullshit really boosted them.

    they're full of shit if they think people only want suvs and not sedans. everyone i know is buying sedans. i bought one last year.

    i'll just buy a different brand.

    The government offered bailout money, so I'm not really sure it's that bad to take something that was offered.. But I do appreciate brands that didn't have to take bailout money in order to survive. And many people in the US are buying SUVs, which is why many car makers selling cars in the US make so many of them for sale in the US. When I've traveled to other countries, I've been surprised at how many more smaller cars people seem to drive in other countries. SUVs, not as much. If they're selling a lot of SUVs in the us, that's just the way the market is in the US. I myself tend to prefer a sedan or smaller car.

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Sep 27 03:01:44 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Sep 26 2018 04:58 pm

    sedans. everyone i know is buying sedans. i bought one last year.

    i'll just buy a different brand.

    The government offered bailout money, so I'm not really sure it's that bad to take something that was offered.. But I do appreciate brands that didn't have to take bailout money in order to survive. And many people in the US

    it wasnt really bailout money, it was a loan. it didnt fit in with that.
    they benefitted from the american people.

    have to take bailout money in order to survive. And many people in the US are buying SUVs, which is why many car makers selling cars in the US make so many of them for sale in the US. When I've traveled to other countries,

    i'm not so sure people are buying suvs THAT much that they need to stop making sedans.

    sedans are nice. the one i have is small, is great on gas, has good pickup and it has a large trunk. plus i'm tall and i fit in it fine.
    in the winter i will be using my suv which means i will be paying 2x the money on gas.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Sep 27 18:53:00 2018
    On 09-26-18 16:58, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    The government offered bailout money, so I'm not really sure it's that
    bad to take something that was offered.. But I do appreciate brands
    that didn't have to take bailout money in order to survive. And many people in the US are buying SUVs, which is why many car makers selling cars in the US make so many of them for sale in the US. When I've

    SUVs are also popular in Australia. For some people they are practical, as there are a lot of uses for an off road vehicle out here, but others just buy them for the prestige or the height or to look intimidating on the road, or whatever. Such City based SUVs that never go off road are known by derogatory nicknames such as "Toorak Tractors" (after an affluent suburb in Melbourne) or "Balmain Bulldozers" (after an affluent Sydney suburb), as a couple of
    xamples.

    traveled to other countries, I've been surprised at how many more
    smaller cars people seem to drive in other countries. SUVs, not as
    much. If they're selling a lot of SUVs in the us, that's just the way
    the market is in the US. I myself tend to prefer a sedan or smaller
    car.

    I drive a small manual sedan. Does the job for me. Only time I would consider a SUV is if I was planning on going off road for significant amounts of time. I have done off road driver training, so no stranger to that skill, but at this time only likely to do that in a fire command car.


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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to nightfox on Thu Sep 27 19:01:13 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Sep 27 2018 14:53:00

    traveled to other countries, I've been surprised at how many more smaller cars people seem to drive in other countries. SUVs, not as much. If they're selling a lot of SUVs in the us, that's just the way the market is in the US. I myself tend to prefer a sedan or smaller car.
    I drive a small manual sedan. Does the job for me. Only time I would consider a SUV is if I was planning on going off road for significant amounts of time. I have done off road driver training, so no stranger to that skill, but at this time only likely to do that in a fire command car.

    We drive a small car too. a bmw 1 series. We live in the centre which is a hassle with parking etc... with a small car you have more chance to be able to park then with a big suv.

    HAWKEYE

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu Sep 27 17:10:18 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Sep 26 2018 11:01 pm

    i'm not so sure people are buying suvs THAT much that they need to stop making sedans.

    Well no, not everyone is buying an SUV, and they shouldn't stop making sedans. Just seems like a lot of people in the US these days are buying SUVs.

    sedans are nice. the one i have is small, is great on gas, has good pickup and it has a large trunk. plus i'm tall and i fit in it fine.
    in the winter i will be using my suv which means i will be paying 2x the money on gas.

    Yeah, the fuel economy is one reason I like a smaller car. Also is there a reason to buy a big SUV just for the winter driving ability? Why not a 4 wheel drive sedan? I've heard Subarus (for instance) are good for off-road and winter driving due to being 4 wheel drive.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thu Sep 27 17:15:46 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Sep 27 2018 02:53 pm

    SUVs are also popular in Australia. For some people they are practical, as there are a lot of uses for an off road vehicle out here, but others just buy them for the prestige or the height or to look intimidating on the road, or whatever. Such City based SUVs that never go off road are known by derogatory nicknames such as "Toorak Tractors" (after an affluent suburb in Melbourne) or "Balmain Bulldozers" (after an affluent Sydney suburb), as a couple of xamples.

    :) I've heard of people buying them for height here too. As far as prestige, I'm not sure I see any more prestige in buying an SUV vs. a smaller car/sedan. I could see perhaps prestige in a luxury brand name, but to me, vehicle size does not equal prestige. There's also the fact that they tend to use more gas, which is something I don't equate with prestige. I think some larger vehicles are even harder to get into/out of because of their height, since you have to step up/down a bit to get into/out of them.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Thu Sep 27 17:17:48 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Hawkeye to nightfox on Thu Sep 27 2018 03:01 pm

    We drive a small car too. a bmw 1 series. We live in the centre which is a hassle with parking etc... with a small car you have more chance to be able to park then with a big suv.

    That and fuel economy are the main reasons I like smaller cars.

    Nightfox

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Thu Sep 27 22:09:00 2018
    The government offered bailout money, so I'm not really sure it's that bad to >take something that was offered.. But I do appreciate brands that didn't have >to take bailout money in order to survive. And many people in the US are >buying SUVs, which is why many car makers selling cars in the US make so many >of them for sale in the US. When I've traveled to other countries, I've been >surprised at how many more smaller cars people seem to drive in other >countries. SUVs, not as much. If they're selling a lot of SUVs in the us, >that's just the way the market is in the US. I myself tend to prefer a sedan >or smaller car.

    IIRC, GM and Chrysler took the bailout but Ford did not. I do not like
    driving SUVs so I will be changing makes the next time I have to.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Thu Sep 27 22:12:00 2018
    i'm not so sure people are buying suvs THAT much that they need to stop making >sedans.

    I agree but in the area I live in people are SUV and truck crazy. I have
    never owned one, and would much rather not drive one. Honda or Toyota will
    get my business the next time I need one.

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Fri Sep 28 11:20:00 2018
    On 09-27-18 13:15, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    :) I've heard of people buying them for height here too. As far as prestige, I'm not sure I see any more prestige in buying an SUV vs. a smaller car/sedan. I could see perhaps prestige in a luxury brand name, but to me, vehicle size does not equal prestige. There's also the fact that they tend to use more gas, which is something I don't equate with prestige. I think some larger vehicles are even harder to get into/out
    of because of their height, since you have to step up/down a bit to get into/out of them.

    Yeah, I don't buy into it, and I'm not sold on luxury cars either. Many are European, and European cars aren't always well suited to Australian conditions - long distances, extreme heat, dust, rough roads, etc. In fact, some car makers found if they designed cars to survive our worst conditions, they were suitable for just about anywhere. I think the Japanese are among those who caught onto that idea.

    Unfortunately, Austrlalian built cars are a thing of the past now, but Australian designed ones are still a reality, since some of the design teams have been kept going, because of their expertise.

    I've known people with various European cars, and they seem to have them in the workshop a lot. :)

    As for SUVs, you've named another reason I wouldn't buy one (unless I actually was planning on going off road, of course) - gas guzzling. I'm happy with a compact 4 cylinder car that can run on the small of an oily rag, and when the technology and price is right, I'd be happy to go electric (range is a major consideration for me).


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Fri Sep 28 11:31:00 2018
    On 09-27-18 13:10, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    Yeah, the fuel economy is one reason I like a smaller car. Also is
    there a reason to buy a big SUV just for the winter driving ability?
    Why not a 4 wheel drive sedan? I've heard Subarus (for instance) are
    good for off-road and winter driving due to being 4 wheel drive.

    Don't see a lot of Subarus here, but their "all wheel drive" has been around for yonks.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dumas Walker on Thu Sep 27 20:05:10 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Thu Sep 27 2018 06:09 pm

    IIRC, GM and Chrysler took the bailout but Ford did not.

    That's probably correct. I think I heard the same.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thu Sep 27 20:18:17 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Fri Sep 28 2018 07:20 am

    Yeah, I don't buy into it, and I'm not sold on luxury cars either. Many are European, and European cars aren't always well suited to Australian conditions - long distances, extreme heat, dust, rough roads, etc. In fact, some car makers found if they designed cars to survive our worst conditions, they were suitable for just about anywhere. I think the Japanese are among those who caught onto that idea.

    When you said many are European, I was just thinking there are Japanese luxury cars too (Lexus, Infiniti). There are some US car makers that are more luxury brands too, such as Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln, and I don't remember what else.. Are any of those available in Australia? I'm not sure they'd be built to survive Australian harsh conditions either..

    Unfortunately, Austrlalian built cars are a thing of the past now, but Australian designed ones are still a reality, since some of the design teams have been kept going, because of their expertise.

    Interesting.. Several foreign car makers have manufacturing plants in the US, where they build cars for the US market. I know Honda, Toyota, BMW, and Volkswagen have manufacturing plants in the US. I'm not sure what other foreign brands build cars in the US. Conversely, I've heard at least some American branded cars are built in other countries.

    I've known people with various European cars, and they seem to have them in the workshop a lot. :)

    I've always thought of at least Volkswagen being reliable, at least for some of their cars. I often see a lot of older Volkswagens from the 80s and 90s still on the road (mainly Jettas and Golfs). I've heard Volkswagen has had some mixed ratings on reliability though.

    As for SUVs, you've named another reason I wouldn't buy one (unless I actually was planning on going off road, of course) - gas guzzling. I'm happy with a compact 4 cylinder car that can run on the small of an oily rag, and when the technology and price is right, I'd be happy to go electric (range is a major consideration for me).

    I've seen more high-performance cars these days being built with turbocharged 4-cylinder engines (as opposed to something like a V6 like they'd often use in the past). I suppose they're trying to improve fuel economy that way..

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thu Sep 27 20:22:32 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Fri Sep 28 2018 07:31 am

    Yeah, the fuel economy is one reason I like a smaller car. Also is
    there a reason to buy a big SUV just for the winter driving ability?
    Why not a 4 wheel drive sedan? I've heard Subarus (for instance)
    are good for off-road and winter driving due to being 4 wheel drive.

    Don't see a lot of Subarus here, but their "all wheel drive" has been around for yonks.

    Subarus seem to be fairly popular in my part of the US (northwest). https://bit.ly/2IncNbN
    https://n.pr/2OWHKpy

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Thu Sep 27 23:22:43 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Sep 27 2018 02:53 pm

    SUVs are also popular in Australia. For some people they are practical, as there are a lot of uses for an off road vehicle out here, but others just buy them for the prestige or the height or to look intimidating on the road, or whatever. Such City based SUVs that never go off road are known by derogatory nicknames such as "Toorak Tractors" (after an affluent suburb in Melbourne) or "Balmain Bulldozers" (after an affluent Sydney suburb), as a


    i have a ford explorer. i wouldnt take it off roading. it's best for driving in the snow and shopping. this weekend i am going to a wedding and they neglected to get chairs for everybody. it's in a park. so i'm taking the suv and throwing some chairs in the back.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Sep 27 23:30:26 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Sep 27 2018 01:10 pm

    i'm not so sure people are buying suvs THAT much that they need to stop making sedans.

    Well no, not everyone is buying an SUV, and they shouldn't stop making sedans. Just seems like a lot of people in the US these days are buying SUVs.



    all the articles are saying that suvs are the most popular.

    small economical sedans still outsell suvs worldwide, internet sez.
    they also say the toyota corolla is the most popular car of all time.

    i'm always seeing honda civics.

    Yeah, the fuel economy is one reason I like a smaller car. Also is there a reason to buy a big SUV just for the winter driving ability? Why not a 4

    i just feel safe in my suv and i dont slide. also when you go shopping it has all that storage. and when i moved a few years ago, i moved myself. i even fit my fridge in the back. i like being up higher and it's comfortable. the gas consumption sucks. it's not a cruising car. newer suvs have better gas mileage they say. i looked up the 2018 version of the exploder and it's only 19 city and 27 highway at best. not really a big deal.

    reason to buy a big SUV just for the winter driving ability? Why not a 4 wheel drive sedan? I've heard Subarus (for instance) are good for off-road and winter driving due to being 4 wheel drive.


    my gf got a subaru and it has great pickup. also it has just a little more HP than my kia but it's much more powerful.

    it's an impreza and the trunk space sucks compared to my kia. also i'm 6'2 and i can barely cram in the drive it. my knees are up on the dash.


    wheel drive sedan? I've heard Subarus (for instance) are good for off-road and winter driving due to being 4 wheel drive.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Thu Sep 27 23:32:56 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Thu Sep 27 2018 06:09 pm

    IIRC, GM and Chrysler took the bailout but Ford did not. I do not like driving SUVs so I will be changing makes the next time I have to.

    ford got a 5.9 billion loan in june 2009
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Thu Sep 27 23:33:55 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Fri Sep 28 2018 07:20 am

    As for SUVs, you've named another reason I wouldn't buy one (unless I actually was planning on going off road, of course) - gas guzzling. I'm


    i dont think suvs are for off roading.
    i would use a jacked up truck for that.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri Sep 28 00:40:52 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Thu Sep 27 2018 04:18 pm

    remember what else.. Are any of those available in Australia? I'm not sure they'd be built to survive Australian harsh conditions either..


    nobody can survive australia's harsh conditions. that's why most of it is uninhabited.
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  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Dumas Walker on Fri Sep 28 02:03:54 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Sep 27 2018 18:12:00

    i'm not so sure people are buying suvs THAT much that they need to stop mak >sedans.

    I agree but in the area I live in people are SUV and truck crazy. I have never owned one, and would much rather not drive one. Honda or Toyota will get my business the next time I need one.


    I have heard that Toyota and Honda are really good cars to own. I've owned four cars (one at a time, obviously) in my life time: Buick, Dodge, Toyota, and Scion (current).

    The 90's Buick Regal (I forget which year) was a tough little car, eingine wise. The engine ran too hot a few times, and the gas pump had to be replaced once.

    The 2004 Dodge Stratus that I had was crap. The water pump went out after it hit 75K+ miles, and it went down hill from there: the head gasket blew and it was going to be US$4K to replace it. I'll never buy a MOPAAR vechile again.

    The previous car, 2010 Toyota Carolla, was a good car; never had issues with
    it in the short period of time that I had it. The gas milege was awesome @ ~32-35MPG; miss that gas milage. I had to trade it in because it was too small to hold two car seats.

    The current car that I have now is a Scion XB, and it's been a decent SUV so far, but the gas milage has been crap: ~25-28MPG. Scion is a division of Toyota, and the Scion XB's engine is a Toyota Camry engine.

    If I had to get another car, it'll be a Toyota again, maybe a Honda.

    -jag
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Fri Sep 28 00:12:47 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Sep 27 2018 07:30 pm

    Well no, not everyone is buying an SUV, and they shouldn't stop making
    sedans. Just seems like a lot of people in the US these days are
    buying SUVs.

    all the articles are saying that suvs are the most popular.

    small economical sedans still outsell suvs worldwide, internet sez.
    they also say the toyota corolla is the most popular car of all time.

    Worldwide, yes.. I thought we were just talking about the US market? It seems a lot of people in the US are buying SUVs. As I had said in another message in this thread, I've been to some countries outside the US and have seen a lot more sedans and smaller cars in other countries compared to the US.

    i'm always seeing honda civics.

    Yeah, those seem to be fairly popular. I see a lot of Hondas and Toyotas on the road. And at least where I live, I see quite a bit of Volkswagens and Subarus too. I see a fair number of older cars from those brands on the road too, from the 80s and 90s.. Seems they are fairly reliable too.

    i just feel safe in my suv and i dont slide. also when you go shopping it has all that storage. and when i moved a few years ago, i moved myself. i

    I've rarely needed a lot of storage when I go shopping, except if I'm buying a big piece of furniture or something and the store doesn't deliver.

    my gf got a subaru and it has great pickup. also it has just a little more HP than my kia but it's much more powerful.

    it's an impreza and the trunk space sucks compared to my kia. also i'm 6'2

    Eh, the Subaru Impreza isn't a pickup.. I just looked up the Impreza to double-check, and it looks like it's available in a sedan or hatchback, no pickup version.

    The only Subaru pickup I've seen in the US lately is the Baja.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jagossel on Fri Sep 28 00:17:05 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Jagossel to Dumas Walker on Thu Sep 27 2018 10:03 pm

    If I had to get another car, it'll be a Toyota again, maybe a Honda.

    I've thought of buying a Toyota or Honda next time I buy a car. I kinda liked the Honda CR-Z, but I sat in one at an auto show and there wasn't much rear visibility. But Honda has other models I like.

    Nightfox

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Fri Sep 28 17:44:41 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Sep 26 2018 05:37 pm

    they're full of shit if they think people only want suvs and not sedans. everyone i know is buying sedans. i bought one last year.


    Everyone I know who bought a Ford Fusion or a recent Focus loves them.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Fri Sep 28 17:48:56 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Sep 27 2018 02:53 pm

    I drive a small manual sedan. Does the job for me. Only time I would consider a SUV is if I was planning on going off road for significant amounts of time. I have done off road driver training, so no stranger to that skill, but at this time only likely to do that in a fire command car.

    I want a battlewagon - a Subaru Outback with a skid plate, some big-ass driving lights, mild lift, knobby tires and a roof rack.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Hawkeye on Fri Sep 28 17:53:27 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Hawkeye to nightfox on Thu Sep 27 2018 03:01 pm

    We drive a small car too. a bmw 1 series. We live in the centre which is a hassle with parking etc... with a small car you have more chance to be able to park then with a big suv.

    When I lived in San Francisco I had an old Rabbit Diesel. Small, so I could park anywhere. big-ass chrome and rubber bumpers, so no visible dings. 50 mpg, so I could afford it while in college. Fold down rear seats and a hatchback, perfect for moving stuff cross-town.

    I drove a german-made '77, and later a US-made '83. The latter I bought for $700, drove it for 3 years, sold it for the same price.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri Sep 28 20:33:34 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Sep 27 2018 08:12 pm

    Worldwide, yes.. I thought we were just talking about the US market? It seems a lot of people in the US are buying SUVs. As I had said in another message in this thread, I've been to some countries outside the US and have


    sure, people are buying them. but the most popular vehicles are still cars.

    the media is creating a big fuss about it.

    I've rarely needed a lot of storage when I go shopping, except if I'm buying

    you must not buy shit. i need room for regular grocery shopping.
    my gf got a subaru and it has great pickup. also it has just a little more HP than my kia but it's much more powerful.

    it's an impreza and the trunk space sucks compared to my kia. also i'm 6'2

    Eh, the Subaru Impreza isn't a pickup.. I just looked up the Impreza to

    IT HAS GREAT PICKUP. i didnt say it was a great pickup.
    /facepalm

    The only Subaru pickup I've seen in the US lately is the Baja.

    /facepalm
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Fri Sep 28 19:07:33 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Sep 28 2018 04:33 pm

    I've rarely needed a lot of storage when I go shopping, except if I'm
    buying

    you must not buy shit. i need room for regular grocery shopping.

    My car has a trunk.. Of course it has room for groceries. I'm wondering how much groceries you buy where you need a SUV to carry all your grocieries home. Do you buy groceries for the whole neighborhood?

    my gf got a subaru and it has great pickup. also it has just a

    Eh, the Subaru Impreza isn't a pickup.. I just looked up the Impreza
    to

    IT HAS GREAT PICKUP. i didnt say it was a great pickup.
    /facepalm

    I misread that...

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Sep 28 19:10:31 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hawkeye on Fri Sep 28 2018 01:53 pm

    When I lived in San Francisco I had an old Rabbit Diesel. Small, so I could park anywhere. big-ass chrome and rubber bumpers, so no visible dings. 50 mpg, so I could afford it while in college. Fold down rear seats and a hatchback, perfect for moving stuff cross-town.

    I drove a german-made '77, and later a US-made '83. The latter I bought for $700, drove it for 3 years, sold it for the same price.

    I didn't know Volkswagen had a US plant back then. I've heard of VWs in the US being made in either Germany or Mexico, and I heard Volkswagen built a plant in the US in Chatanooga, TN in 2009 or so, which seemed like a big deal in the news at the time. Do you know where in the US Volkswagen was building cars in the early 80s?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Fri Sep 28 21:02:00 2018
    IIRC, GM and Chrysler took the bailout but Ford did not. I do not like driving SUVs so I will be changing makes the next time I have to.

    ford got a 5.9 billion loan in june 2009

    I seem to remember hearing that also.

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sat Sep 29 01:27:10 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Sep 28 2018 03:07 pm

    My car has a trunk.. Of course it has room for groceries. I'm wondering how much groceries you buy where you need a SUV to carry all your grocieries home. Do you buy groceries for the whole neighborhood?


    no but we usually get 3 cases of water, all the bullshit my gf gets and my stuff, so the suv helps.

    easier to unload too.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Sat Sep 29 01:32:37 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Fri Sep 28 2018 05:02 pm

    IIRC, GM and Chrysler took the bailout but Ford did not. I do not like driving SUVs so I will be changing makes the next time I have to.

    ford got a 5.9 billion loan in june 2009

    I seem to remember hearing that also.



    they also mortaged company assets for 23.6 billion in 2006.
    i'm reading an article now saying how smart ford was for doing that.... but then they got 5.9 billion from the govt later that year.
    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Sep 29 17:18:00 2018
    On 09-28-18 13:48, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I want a battlewagon - a Subaru Outback with a skid plate, some big-ass driving lights, mild lift, knobby tires and a roof rack.

    Hmm, you sound like one of those drivers that pisses me off LOL (just teasing ;) ).


    ... Heaven doesn't want me and Hell's afraid I'll stage a takeover!
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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Nightfox on Sat Sep 29 18:26:57 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Hawkeye on Thu Sep 27 2018 13:17:48

    That and fuel economy are the main reasons I like smaller cars.

    Ah ok. Ours is not that good in that but I like its small but the road behaviour is like a big car. We once drove a Toyota Aygo, I was afraid in this one when it was windy.


    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - mash4077.ddns.net - The Netherlands -

    ---
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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Nightfox on Sat Sep 29 18:41:59 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Sep 27 2018 20:12:47

    The only Subaru pickup I've seen in the US lately is the Baja.

    Here we dont see pickups of Subaru (didnt know they had them) but Impreza sedans and WRX Rally edition are popular with some young kids.

    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - mash4077.ddns.net - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Sep 29 18:44:00 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hawkeye on Fri Sep 28 2018 13:53:27

    I drove a german-made '77, and later a US-made '83. The latter I bought for $700, drove it for 3 years, sold it for the same price.

    Thats driving for free :)

    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - mash4077.ddns.net - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Sat Sep 29 19:07:01 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Hawkeye to Nightfox on Sat Sep 29 2018 02:41 pm

    Here we dont see pickups of Subaru (didnt know they had them) but Impreza sedans and WRX Rally edition are popular with some young kids.

    I've seen some young people driving modified Subarus (what I find funny are the loud mufflers they sometimes use, and the big spoilers they sometimes put on the back - or maybe they come that way?). I've heard Subaru drivers tend to get pulled over by the police more often than average due to younger drivers driving fast/aggressively in them.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Chai@VERT/FRUGALBB to Nightfox on Sun Sep 30 01:26:00 2018
    Nightfox wrote to Hawkeye <=-

    That and fuel economy are the main reasons I like smaller cars.

    I used to own an SUV back when gas hit $5 a gallon, which was fiscally painful.

    All I can say about SUV's is that they drive rough and drink gas.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
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  • From Chai@VERT/FRUGALBB to MRO on Sun Sep 30 01:48:00 2018
    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-


    sedans are nice. the one i have is small, is great on gas, has good pickup and it has a large trunk. plus i'm tall and i fit in it fine.

    I drive a Corolla. It gets good gas mileage, but my 6'2" body is a bit
    much for it. I'd like to have a minivan or a full-sized sedan like
    a Lincoln. Something quiet and roomy.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Chai on Sun Sep 30 22:39:00 2018
    On 09-29-18 21:48, Chai wrote to MRO <=-

    I drive a Corolla. It gets good gas mileage, but my 6'2" body is a bit much for it. I'd like to have a minivan or a full-sized sedan like
    a Lincoln. Something quiet and roomy.

    Some small cars are surprisingly roomy. A friend of mine is around 6'4" and has a bit of bulk, yet he easily fits into a Toyota Echo, which is even smaller than a Corolla. But its interior space is very well designed. Does cause people to do a double take when they see this huge guy get out of a tiny car.
    D


    ... Cursor: An expert in four-letter words
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  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Chai on Sun Sep 30 11:32:00 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Chai to Nightfox on Sat Sep 29 2018 21:26:00

    I used to own an SUV back when gas hit $5 a gallon, which was fiscally painf

    Man alive, I remember those days. At the same time that fuel was US$4 to US$5 per gallon, a pipeline burst in the southeastern United States, affecting the availability of fuel then. Some fuel stations were rationing out, and had long lines of people trying to get fuel.

    I don't miss those days, and I worry that we're slowly getting back to those days again.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Jagossel on Sun Sep 30 15:44:53 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Jagossel to Chai on Sun Sep 30 2018 07:32 am

    Man alive, I remember those days. At the same time that fuel was US$4 to US$5 per gallon, a pipeline burst in the southeastern United States, affecting the availability of fuel then. Some fuel stations were rationing out, and had long lines of people trying to get fuel.

    I don't miss those days, and I worry that we're slowly getting back to those days again.


    it's really the speculators that cause the prices to jump up so fast.
    it's all made up shit to make money
    ---
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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Nightfox on Sun Sep 30 23:03:52 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Hawkeye on Sat Sep 29 2018 15:07:01

    I've seen some young people driving modified Subarus (what I find funny are the loud mufflers they sometimes use, and the big spoilers they sometimes put on the back - or maybe they come that way?). I've heard Subaru drivers tend to get pulled over by the police more often than average due to younger drivers driving fast/aggressively in them.

    hahahha.. true the big spoilers look right as if they were IKEA furniture LOL

    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - mash4077.ddns.net - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Chai on Mon Oct 1 13:39:03 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Chai to Nightfox on Sat Sep 29 2018 09:26 pm

    I used to own an SUV back when gas hit $5 a gallon, which was fiscally painful.

    Yeah, I remember when gas got that expensive. When I first started driving, gas was around $1.10-$1.20/gallon or so, and it seemed fairly cheap.. Maybe $15-$20 for a fill.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Mon Oct 1 13:40:50 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Hawkeye to Nightfox on Sun Sep 30 2018 07:03 pm

    hahahha.. true the big spoilers look right as if they were IKEA furniture LOL

    Yep :) I've seen some memes online that say "Now I know what those spoilers are for", and it shows people sitting on the back of their car using the spoiler as a tray for food while they eat.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jagossel on Mon Oct 1 13:44:06 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Jagossel to Chai on Sun Sep 30 2018 07:32 am

    I used to own an SUV back when gas hit $5 a gallon, which was fiscally
    painf

    Man alive, I remember those days. At the same time that fuel was US$4 to US$5 per gallon, a pipeline burst in the southeastern United States, affecting the availability of fuel then. Some fuel stations were rationing out, and had long lines of people trying to get fuel.

    I remember when gas hit those prices, but I didn't see any stations rationing gas or long lines where I live. I was still able to get gas easily.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Mon Oct 1 21:32:58 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Jagossel on Mon Oct 01 2018 09:44:06

    I used to own an SUV back when gas hit $5 a gallon, which was fiscally
    painf

    Man alive, I remember those days. At the same time that fuel was US$4 t US$5 per gallon, a pipeline burst in the southeastern United States, affecting the availability of fuel then. Some fuel stations were ration out, and had long lines of people trying to get fuel.

    I remember when gas hit those prices, but I didn't see any stations rationin gas or long lines where I live. I was still able to get gas easily.

    The busrt pipeline only affecred the south-eastern part of the United States; the rest of the country was fine; we had no issues before the burst and after the repair of the pipeline.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Mon Oct 1 00:08:00 2018
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I didn't know Volkswagen had a US plant back then. I've heard of VWs
    in the US being made in either Germany or Mexico, and I heard
    Volkswagen built a plant in the US in Chatanooga, TN in 2009 or so,
    which seemed like a big deal in the news at the time. Do you know
    where in the US Volkswagen was building cars in the early 80s?

    Westmoreland, PA.



    ... Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Mon Oct 1 00:09:00 2018
    Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Hmm, you sound like one of those drivers that pisses me off LOL (just teasing ;) ).

    Nope, now I'm driving a Prius - I'm just sick of having the front valence scrape on every little bump.



    ... What do you think of the guests?
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Oct 7 11:57:00 2018
    On 09-30-18 20:09, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Nope, now I'm driving a Prius - I'm just sick of having the front
    valence scrape on every little bump.

    Cool. I've never driven a Prius or any other hybrid. Would like to take one for a test drive sometime.


    ... Bug free, cheap, on time, works. Pick two.
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  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Oct 8 04:45:27 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Vk3jed on Sun Sep 30 2018 08:09 pm

    Nope, now I'm driving a Prius - I'm just sick of having the front valence scrape on every little bump.

    My Chevy Sonic does that. Not every little bump but a couple times a week. Something to do with the air intake had to be replaced when it was a year or two old because of that. That one was covered but if it needs another fix up it'll be on my dime the next time around. :(

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Help! I've fallen and can't reach my beer!

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Mon Oct 8 13:09:56 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Oct 07 2018 07:57 am

    Cool. I've never driven a Prius or any other hybrid. Would like to take one for a test drive sometime.

    I haven't driven a hybrid either. I think the Chevrolet Volt is an interesting idea - The wheels are actually powered entirely by an electric motor, and the gas engine is only used as a generator to recharge the battery as needed.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Tue Oct 9 11:05:00 2018
    On 10-08-18 09:09, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I haven't driven a hybrid either. I think the Chevrolet Volt is an interesting idea - The wheels are actually powered entirely by an
    electric motor, and the gas engine is only used as a generator to
    recharge the battery as needed.

    That's actually an older idea the "series hybrid", as opposed to the "parallel hybrid" system that the Prios uses, where both the electric and engine can drive the wheels together. There's pros and cons to both approaches.


    ... Tolkien is hobbit-forming.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Mon Oct 8 18:48:58 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Tue Oct 09 2018 07:05 am

    I haven't driven a hybrid either. I think the Chevrolet Volt is an
    interesting idea - The wheels are actually powered entirely by an
    electric motor, and the gas engine is only used as a generator to
    recharge the battery as needed.

    That's actually an older idea the "series hybrid", as opposed to the "parallel hybrid" system that the Prios uses, where both the electric and engine can drive the wheels together. There's pros and cons to both approaches.

    I think the first hybrid car I heard about was the Honda Insight, around 2001 or so. I thought it was a parallel hybrid, as you describe, but I'm not sure. The Chevrolet Volt is the first series hybrid I had heard about, which I think was introduced in the US around 2008 or so.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Mon Oct 8 22:11:27 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Mon Oct 08 2018 09:09 am

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Oct 07 2018 07:57 am

    Cool. I've never driven a Prius or any other hybrid. Would like to take one for a test drive sometime.

    I haven't driven a hybrid either. I think the Chevrolet Volt is an interesting idea - The wheels are actually powered entirely by an electric motor, and the gas engine is only used as a generator to recharge the battery as needed.


    it' a chevy so it will probably blow up eventually
    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to nelgin on Wed Oct 10 15:19:24 2018
    On 10-08-18 14:48, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I think the first hybrid car I heard about was the Honda Insight,
    around 2001 or so. I thought it was a parallel hybrid, as you
    describe, but I'm not sure. The Chevrolet Volt is the first series
    hybrid I had heard about, which I think was introduced in the US around 2008 or so.

    The concept of the series hybrid was talked about at least as far back as the 80s, and one of the advantages given at the time was that the engine could be run at its optimum point for fuel efficiency to charge batteries and provide additional electricity to drive the motors.

    And besides, this is similar to how diesel electroc locomotives work. :)

    I heard about parallel hybrids much later, but no idea when they were on the drawing board.


    ... Act my age? I've never BEEN my age before!
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Wed Oct 10 16:52:37 2018
    Re: QWK netmail. :)
    By: Vk3jed to nelgin on Wed Oct 10 2018 11:19 am

    I think the first hybrid car I heard about was the Honda Insight,
    around 2001 or so. I thought it was a parallel hybrid, as you
    describe, but I'm not sure. The Chevrolet Volt is the first series
    hybrid I had heard about, which I think was introduced in the US
    around 2008 or so.

    The concept of the series hybrid was talked about at least as far back as the 80s, and one of the advantages given at the time was that the engine could be run at its optimum point for fuel efficiency to charge batteries and provide additional electricity to drive the motors.

    You quoted me, but somehow your reply was addressed to Nelgin.
    Interesting.. I hadn't heard about any type of hybrid car until the Honda Insight came out in the US (around 2001 or so).

    And besides, this is similar to how diesel electroc locomotives work. :)

    I've heard that about diesel electric locomotives. I'm not sure if all locomitives are that way though.. When I first heard about that, I thought it could be an inefficient setup to have a gas motor charging a battery, and then the battery driving the motor. I'd think the more points of energy conversion you have, the more energy loss you'd have between the points due to the inefficiency of energy conversion. Why not have the diesel motor drive the wheels directly? I've heard diesel engines tend to have more torque than gas engines, which is why diesel engines tend to be used in vehicles that haul a lot of weight. I know electric engines tend to have a lot of torque too though..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Oct 11 12:52:00 2018
    On 10-10-18 12:52, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    You quoted me, but somehow your reply was addressed to Nelgin. Interesting.. I hadn't heard about any type of hybrid car until the
    Honda Insight came out in the US (around 2001 or so).

    I think there were a few earlier prototypes and concept cars.

    And besides, this is similar to how diesel electroc locomotives work. :)

    I've heard that about diesel electric locomotives. I'm not sure if all locomitives are that way though.. When I first heard about that, I thought it could be an inefficient setup to have a gas motor charging a battery, and then the battery driving the motor. I'd think the more points of energy conversion you have, the more energy loss you'd have between the points due to the inefficiency of energy conversion. Why
    not have the diesel motor drive the wheels directly? I've heard diesel engines tend to have more torque than gas engines, which is why diesel engines tend to be used in vehicles that haul a lot of weight. I know electric engines tend to have a lot of torque too though..

    Well, electric motors have one BIG advantage, they have high torque at zero RPM, while internal combustions have zero torque at zero RPM (i.e. they don't run), so you'd need a decent clutch to handle several megawatts of mechanical power. No batteries in locos (for traction), I believe it's a generator/alternator feeding the motors via some control electronics.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Wed Oct 10 21:16:32 2018
    Re: Re: QWK netmail. :)
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Oct 11 2018 08:52 am

    Well, electric motors have one BIG advantage, they have high torque at zero RPM, while internal combustions have zero torque at zero RPM (i.e. they don't run), so you'd need a decent clutch to handle several megawatts of mechanical power. No batteries in locos (for traction), I believe it's a generator/alternator feeding the motors via some control electronics.

    Makes sense. I guess it would be hard to build a clutch for such a big engine/machine. :) It seems to me that an electric motor could still benefit from a clutch though, to allow it to operate a vehicle at higher speeds without spinning the motor to very high RPMs (which would use more energy and would probably wear the motor out faster).

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Chai@VERT/FRUGALBB to Nightfox on Thu Oct 11 00:59:00 2018
    Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    locomitives are that way though.. When I first heard about that, I thought it could be an inefficient setup to have a gas motor charging a battery, and then the battery driving the motor. I'd think the more points of energy conversion you have, the more energy loss you'd have between the points due to the inefficiency of energy conversion. Why

    It works out though, because gas engines produce way more energy than
    actually gets used in transit. Battery conversion does result in lost
    energy, but you can still store enough to get by cheaper. As long as
    the batteries are properly recycled and don't end up in landfills, the
    process works.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Oct 11 18:07:00 2018
    On 10-10-18 17:16, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Makes sense. I guess it would be hard to build a clutch for such a big engine/machine. :) It seems to me that an electric motor could still benefit from a clutch though, to allow it to operate a vehicle at
    higher speeds without spinning the motor to very high RPMs (which would use more energy and would probably wear the motor out faster).

    I'm sure the motor would be specced for the range of speeds. In the old days, the motors were most likely series wound DC, which naturally generate very high torque at low RPM and less torque as speed increases, almost like inbuilt gear changing. Today, you're more likely to have an AC motor driven by a solid state inverter with voltage and frequency control, because there's less moving parts (no brushes!) Modern power electronics has come a long way in the last few decades.


    ... Vegetarian ham now in chicken flavour?!?
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  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Wed Oct 17 20:29:20 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Sep 20 2018 20:01:02

    i think they have to use satelite phones for security.

    You can purchase landline phones that do end to end encryption; most of his comms are probably over that or through the wireless equivalent.

    I'm surprised they let him use a device that talks to Twitter at 3am, but I suppose if he's sufficiently determined there's only so much they can do to stop him.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground | retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Wed Oct 17 20:32:40 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Sep 20 2018 20:05:14

    ronald reagan made strong threats. they didnt say he was spouting off.

    Oh they gave Reagan a very hard time at the time, they have only recently become enamored of him. At the time he was called a "cowboy" and was accused of trying to start WW3.

    I don't really object to Trump taking a hard line with NK; as others have pointed out they've been playing games with us for decades. It's the childish nonsense on Twitter that drives me up a wall, and his pissing contests with celebrities. People complained that Obama wasn't serious enough (and they may have been right!) but Trump's far worse.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground | retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Chai on Wed Oct 17 21:23:18 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Chai to MRO on Thu Sep 20 2018 23:17:00

    Too bad for the farmers. They're improving the economy by exploding the
    deficit. That's not magic.

    This is the trouble with our current two-party joke of a system; each of the complains bitterly when the other is in charge, and when they get in control they do the same crap as the other party. The national debt stands at $21T, roughly half of it accumulated during the Obama administration, but Democrats are howling about Trump's deficit.

    They aren't wrong, but Obama was just as bad if not worse. BOTH parties need to knock it off.

    For what it's worth I think most of Trump's policies have been beneficial to business, but we are just now starting to feel the effects of his trade war with China. That could get ugly. China IS a bad actor and I don't know what the best way to deal with that is. It could be that there's no non-painful way to improve the situation.

    I've always felt that Trump cannot possibly be the best person for the job though... but we are likely stuck with him another term. I've heard the Dems are talking about running Biden.

    I'll likely be voting Libertarian again.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground | retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Wed Oct 17 21:28:19 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Fri Sep 21 2018 23:43:17

    the point is, we dont need to import. we have enough resources in the usa. we need to stop sending jobs overseas. we need to make it FAIR in regards to trading.

    Boy oh boy is this not true. Open up any piece of electronic equipment, "made in America" or not, and have a look at the chips with a magnifying glass. You'll be hard pressed to find anything in there sourced from the US. All that is over in Asia and that's been the situation for a few decades now. We can probably do without China proper, but it could easily disrupt trade with China, Japan, Korea, and other countries that would absolutely cripple us.

    And China has a virtual monopoly on rare earths, which are required for all sorts of tech.

    This all has to be handled carefully. I'm not sure our current crop of "leaders" are doing anything carefully. I hope I am wrong.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground | retrounderground.org:6423
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 02:02:24 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Chai on Wed Oct 17 2018 05:23 pm

    business, but we are just now starting to feel the effects of his trade war with China. That could get ugly. China IS a bad actor and I don't know


    what the best way to deal with that is. It could be that there's no non-painful way to improve the situation.


    it's not a trade war. cnn calls it that. it's just about making things fair. ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 02:04:21 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Wed Oct 17 2018 05:28 pm

    Boy oh boy is this not true. Open up any piece of electronic equipment, "made in America" or not, and have a look at the chips with a magnifying glass. You'll be hard pressed to find anything in there sourced from the US. All that is over in Asia and that's been the situation for a few decades now. We can probably do without China proper, but it could easily disrupt trade with China, Japan, Korea, and other countries that would absolutely


    that's what this is all about. we let those countries corner the market. same as with steel in china. for some reason nobody was talking about how china cornered the market on steel. the media was quiet about it.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Chai on Thu Oct 18 04:40:13 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Chai to Vk3jed on Sat Sep 22 2018 14:12:00

    So less is more. I suppose that makes sense from the developers perspective. If Linux was just one distro, perhaps it would gain additional support as well? I'm referring to Linux as a desktop, of course (not servers, NAS, etc.).

    Linus himself has spoken about this -- the reason Linux has never gained any market share in the desktop area is because it is not bundled with PCs when they are sold. PCs people buy come with Windows, so people develop applications for Windows. Without that installed base, there is no incentive to write software.

    I use Linux for everything I can and have Linux devices in some very unlikely places around the house, but I still use Windows for a desktop. I admin all the customer-facing VMs and servers for a fairly large ISP and that is all done from SecureCRT running on Windows.

    I suspect it will always be that way, unless what they've been promising for a couple decades comes to pass and the OS melts away and we are using thin clients with all the software running elsewhere.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 12:16:42 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Chai on Thu Oct 18 2018 00:40:13

    Linus himself has spoken about this -- the reason Linux has never gained any market share in the desktop area is because it is not bundled with PCs when they are sold. PCs people buy come with Windows, so people develop applications for Windows. Without that installed base, there is no incentiv to write software.

    The fact that one cannot buy a laptop or pre-made desktop without Windows installed is driving me crazy! I have been started to look around for OSless or HDD/SDD-less laptops and it is next to impossible to find them with major retailers like Amazon or NewEgg. The only thing that I can find with these major retailers are Windows, Chromebook/Chrome OS, or Mac OSX. NewEgg had a couple of OSless laptops, but it is through another seller.

    It seems like if you want to find a laptop without an OS, you would have to go through a local shop that refurbishes used laptops from businesses that is getting of them, and it's hard to find such dealer. As far as desktops goes, it's a lot easier with building your own.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 13:36:08 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Chai on Wed Oct 17 2018 05:23 pm

    This is the trouble with our current two-party joke of a system; each of the complains bitterly when the other is in charge, and when they get in control they do the same crap as the other party. The national debt stands

    And another thing that bugs me sometimes is people who are of one party make fun of the candidate of the other party when they're in office, but when their own party is in office, they get all defensive when someone makes fun of them and they'll say things like "you shouldn't disrespect the president" and such. It seems a bit hypocritical.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 13:40:49 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Chai on Thu Oct 18 2018 12:40 am

    Linus himself has spoken about this -- the reason Linux has never gained any market share in the desktop area is because it is not bundled with PCs when they are sold. PCs people buy come with Windows, so people develop applications for Windows. Without that installed base, there is no incentive to write software.

    I agree. I think that's part of what happened to OS/2 back in the day, not enough computers were bundled with OS/2. And I think Microsoft was using some tactics to provide PC makers a lot more incentive to install Windows, making Windows more popular.

    A little while ago, someone on Dove-Net mentioned that back in the 80s, you had to pay quite a bit for the OS as an additional cost when you bought a PC. These days, the OS usually comes bundled with a new PC.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jagossel on Thu Oct 18 13:43:43 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Jagossel to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 2018 08:16 am

    The fact that one cannot buy a laptop or pre-made desktop without Windows installed is driving me crazy! I have been started to look around for OSless or HDD/SDD-less laptops and it is next to impossible to find them with major retailers like Amazon or NewEgg. The only thing that I can find with these major retailers are Windows, Chromebook/Chrome OS, or Mac OSX. NewEgg had a couple of OSless laptops, but it is through another seller.

    It seems like if you want to find a laptop without an OS, you would have to go through a local shop that refurbishes used laptops from businesses that is getting of them, and it's hard to find such dealer. As far as desktops goes, it's a lot easier with building your own.

    I'm sure I've seen PCs on the market with Linux pre-installed. Maybe they are refurbished ones through local shops, as you said. I'm a little surprised that after all these years, Linux still isn't very common as a pre-installed OS.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 17:23:12 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Chai on Thu Oct 18 2018 12:40 am

    Linus himself has spoken about this -- the reason Linux has never gained any market share in the desktop area is because it is not bundled with PCs when they are sold. PCs people buy come with Windows, so people develop applications for Windows. Without that installed base, there is no incentive to write software.

    There have been a lot of PCs sold with Linux pre-installed. I don't think they sold as well as Windows PCs. So that could just be Linus' subjective opinion and not necessarily true.

    Myself, I still use Windows desktops primarily. It's just a better GUI (for me) and the apps are more consistently good / usable. For simple browser-based work (e.g. G-suite), I don't really care much which OS or browser I use, but for most other stuff I do (e.g. audio/video production), I much prefer Windows.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #21:
    FF = Form Feed (ASCII 12, Ctrl-L)
    Norco, CA WX: 84.2°F, 19.0% humidity, 0 mph WNW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Jagossel on Thu Oct 18 17:28:10 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Jagossel to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 2018 08:16 am

    The fact that one cannot buy a laptop or pre-made desktop without Windows installed is driving me crazy!

    Why? Having Windows available (at least in a dual-boot scenario) can be valuable. When I started at my most recent job they procured a workstation-class Lenovo laptop for me, which of course, came with Windows pre-installed. They said: "we're a Linux shop, just delete that Windows stuff and install Ubuntu 16.04" - I thought: well, that's silly, so I just made it dual-boot Windows and Ubuntu and it's been a life-saver. My first 3 or 4 projects all required proprietary Windows tools and dealing with a VM or Wine would have certainly been additional unnecessary hassle.

    I say, keep the Windows install if you can get it, you never know when you might need or want it!

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #2:
    Nigel Tufnel: Well, this piece is called "Lick My Love Pump".
    Norco, CA WX: 84.5°F, 18.0% humidity, 3 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 19:34:00 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Chai on Thu Oct 18 2018 12:40 am

    Linus himself has spoken about this -- the reason Linux has never gained any market share in the desktop area is because it is not bundled with PCs when they are sold. PCs people buy come with Windows, so people develop applications for Windows. Without that installed base, there is no incentive to write software.

    my mom's netbook came with linux on it.

    linux hasnt always been easy to use or hardware friendly. that's probably what held it back. i still think linux is best as a server os.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Oct 18 19:53:52 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 2018 09:36 am

    And another thing that bugs me sometimes is people who are of one party make fun of the candidate of the other party when they're in office, but when their own party is in office, they get all defensive when someone makes fun of them and they'll say things like "you shouldn't disrespect the president" and such. It seems a bit hypocritical.

    my gf is a huge liberal and she is really bad like that. the strange thing is , she is really political and views everyone who isnt a liberal like an enemy, but she knows nothing of politics or any branch of our government.


    she mocks the president and says bad things like she hopes republicans die and ridiculous things like that. all her friends are the same. they think i'm conservative because i didnt vote for hillary. so i'm a narcissist biggot and all that other shit they call trump.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 18:52:10 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Jagossel on Thu Oct 18 2018 01:28 pm

    Why? Having Windows available (at least in a dual-boot scenario) can be valuable. When I started at my most recent job they procured a workstation-class Lenovo laptop for me, which of course, came with Windows pre-installed. They said: "we're a Linux shop, just delete that Windows stuff and install Ubuntu 16.04" - I thought: well, that's silly, so I just made it dual-boot Windows and Ubuntu and it's been a life-saver. My first 3 or 4 projects all required proprietary Windows tools and dealing with a VM or Wine would have certainly been additional unnecessary hassle.

    I say, keep the Windows install if you can get it, you never know when you might need or want it!

    I tend to use Windows myself. If you want to also use Linux, I've debated whether it's more useful to dual-boot or to set up a VM to run Linux in Windows. With a VM, you don't have to reboot the machine and you could run both Windows and Linux software at the same time. The same would be true of someone who prefers working in Linux (they could use a VM to run Windows). The disadvantage of that is you wouldn't be able to run software that would benefit from running on real hardware rather than in a VM. Plus, I suppose you would have to spend money on ensuring you have enough RAM and other resources to run a VM.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Digital Man on Fri Oct 19 13:25:00 2018
    On 10-18-18 13:23, Digital Man wrote to Lizard King <=-

    Myself, I still use Windows desktops primarily. It's just a better GUI (for me) and the apps are more consistently good / usable. For simple browser-based work (e.g. G-suite), I don't really care much which OS or browser I use, but for most other stuff I do (e.g. audio/video production), I much prefer Windows.

    Yeah, Windows is also my primary desktop for a few reasons, mostly software availability (I have a fair bit of software available only for Windows - ham radio has a lot of it), and some UI reasons. But in recent times, I have added a secondary Linux desktop, because some Internet based tasks are just that bit smoother on Linux. Thunderbird with some very large IMAP collections is one such application (I hate webmail for the volume of email I have going through here) that is smoother on Linux. I recycled an older system which had a copy of Windows that was terminally infected with malware. Initially ran with the original HDD, which I reformatted and installed Mint on, but after some reliability issues, I've since upgraded to SSD storage, which has made a massive difference.

    I'm writing this on the Windows PC, though I do have SyncTerm and Multimail on the Linux disktop as well.

    When it comes to OS choice, I simply use whatever I think is most appropriate for a given situation. Could be Windows, Linux, Mac OS X (if I can afford the hardware), or whatever. Would love to have OS/2 or one of its derivatives running. That will be the ideal platform for bringing the old BBS back to life. :)


    ... Old age is life's parody.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Digital Man on Fri Oct 19 13:28:00 2018
    On 10-18-18 13:28, Digital Man wrote to Jagossel <=-

    Why? Having Windows available (at least in a dual-boot scenario) can be valuable. When I started at my most recent job they procured a workstation-class Lenovo laptop for me, which of course, came with

    Yeah, I agree. If Windows is already there, why not keep it.


    ... And if one bad cluster should accidentally fail...
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 18:27:59 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 2018 13:23:12

    There have been a lot of PCs sold with Linux pre-installed. I don't think they sold as well as Windows PCs. So that could just be Linus' subjective opinion and not necessarily true.

    I think he was speaking purely of market share. I don't have the numbers, but I think if you added up units sold, you'd find those are a miniscule portion of PCs that were sold.

    And of course PC sales generally have fallen, to the point that it's not clear what the future of PCs are. I'm kind of alarmed at this, because I don't like working on laptops (the ergonomics alone are horrible) and I love having a desktop although not so much being chained to it.

    I have a tablet (Android), but hardly use the thing. Phones... I have two, I do not use them that much. The one for work I'd love to throw out a window.
    ;)

    Back to the subject of the original post: I buy my phones one revision back from Costco. Still expensive, but not quite as bad, and they do 0% financing over two years, no contract. Well worth it. They save me a pile of money on car insurance as well.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Nightfox on Thu Oct 18 18:31:18 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 2018 09:36:08

    And another thing that bugs me sometimes is people who are of one party make fun of the candidate of the other party when they're in office, but when their own party is in office, they get all defensive when someone makes fun of them and they'll say things like "you shouldn't disrespect the president" and such. It seems a bit hypocritical.

    Even more ridiculous (and dangerous!) is that each party increases the power of the executive while they are in control, then acts like it's the end of the world when the other party takes control. Let's be clear: it is 100% PREDICTABLE that the other party is going to end up in office after you. Maybe you should stop trying to make the Federal government all-powerful while fantasizing about doing away with your political opposition?

    To be clear this idiocy happens on both sides and I think is probably more harmful than anything else going on today. Trump isn't Hitler, but this might be how you get Hitler.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Chai@VERT/FRUGALBB to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 22:03:00 2018
    Lizard King wrote to Chai <=-

    For what it's worth I think most of Trump's policies have been
    beneficial to business, but we are just now starting to feel the

    Business, yes. My 80 year old parents and myself? Not so much.
    Repubs are wanting to get rid of Social Security and Medicare. They've
    said this repeatedly. I'm disabled, so even simple "cuts" to Social
    Security means I will be out on the street. I struggle to by medicine
    and pay bills as it is.

    I live in a state that is about 90% conservative. I've worked most of
    my life, all for conservatives. Considering the experiences I've had, I can tell you it will be a cold day in hell before I ever work for one of them again. But I will tell you that you're correct, in there is a
    lot of back and forth that goes on between both parties. Right now, our political landscape is a joke. What I dislike about conservatives is all the fiscal "scams" they pull of to get short term gains. Dems? They don't seem
    to understand the limitations of a budget.

    For the record, I'm a moderate registered as an Independent. And yes, my disability is legitimate.

    effects of his trade war with China. That could get ugly. China IS a
    bad actor and I don't know what the best way to deal with that is. It could be that there's no non-painful way to improve the situation.

    I'm not sure we can resolve that issue in a single presidency. If we have
    to import, it would be nice if we could move our business somewhere else.
    I do not dislike the Chinese people at all. I just do not like the economic consequences we are suffering from doing business with the country.

    I've always felt that Trump cannot possibly be the best person for the
    job though... but we are likely stuck with him another term. I've
    heard the Dems are talking about running Biden.

    Well first of all, we need to end the practice of placing TV personalities
    in public office. We should be putting intelligent people in office, but
    we don't. We've tried lawyers and entertainers. Has there ever been a president with a science related degree, perhaps with a minor in business?
    A double major would be even better, PHD preferred.

    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Frugal Computing BBS - frugalbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Thu Oct 18 20:44:36 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 2018 02:52 pm

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Jagossel on Thu Oct 18 2018 01:28 pm

    Why? Having Windows available (at least in a dual-boot scenario) can be valuable. When I started at my most recent job they procured a workstation-class Lenovo laptop for me, which of course, came with Windows pre-installed. They said: "we're a Linux shop, just delete that Windows stuff and install Ubuntu 16.04" - I thought: well, that's silly, so I just made it dual-boot Windows and Ubuntu and it's been a life-saver. My first 3 or 4 projects all required proprietary Windows tools and dealing with a VM or Wine would have certainly been additional unnecessary hassle.

    I say, keep the Windows install if you can get it, you never know when you might need or want it!

    I tend to use Windows myself. If you want to also use Linux, I've debated whether it's more useful to dual-boot or to set up a VM to run Linux in Windows. With a VM, you don't have to reboot the machine and you could run both Windows and Linux software at the same time. The same would be true of someone who prefers working in Linux (they could use a VM to run Windows). The disadvantage of that is you wouldn't be able to run software that would benefit from running on real hardware rather than in a VM. Plus, I suppose you would have to spend money on ensuring you have enough RAM and other resources to run a VM.

    I usually have a second system (or two) running Linux at hand, so if my desktop is Windows, I usually have some SSH consoles open into one or more Linux systems as well. So I'm constantly going back and forth for different reasons, even on the same desktop, without using a VM (usually). And with Windows 10 having a Linux/bash subsystem built-in, there may be even less reason for that for some use-cases.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #8:
    Derek Smalls: Making a big thing out of it would have been a good idea.
    Norco, CA WX: 84.8°F, 17.0% humidity, 4 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 20:46:24 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 2018 02:27 pm

    Back to the subject of the original post: I buy my phones one revision back from Costco. Still expensive, but not quite as bad, and they do 0% financing over two years, no contract. Well worth it. They save me a pile of money on car insurance as well.

    Ah, that's a good tip. I shop Costco a lot and am in the market for an iPhone for my youngest daughter. I see if they have any 6's (probably not)!

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #41:
    Ian Faith: It say's "Memphis show cancelled due to lack of advertising funds." Norco, CA WX: 84.8°F, 17.0% humidity, 4 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Chai on Thu Oct 18 23:03:48 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Chai to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 2018 06:03 pm

    Business, yes. My 80 year old parents and myself? Not so much.
    Repubs are wanting to get rid of Social Security and Medicare. They've
    said this repeatedly. I'm disabled, so even simple "cuts" to Social Security means I will be out on the street. I struggle to by medicine
    and pay bills as it is.

    they will never cut social security. i wish you could opt out of it and have your own personal account for your future.

    they will never cut medicare.

    anybody that says they are getting rid of social security and medicare will
    not get voted in.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 21:08:24 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 2018 02:27 pm

    And of course PC sales generally have fallen, to the point that it's not clear what the future of PCs are. I'm kind of alarmed at this, because I don't like working on laptops (the ergonomics alone are horrible) and I love having a desktop although not so much being chained to it.

    From what I've heard, I imagine laptop sales have fallen along with PC sales (people seem to put desktop PCs and laptops in the same category when comparing them with tablets and smartphones).

    I keep thinking that there will still be people who like using desktops and laptops though, due to certain types of work. I can't see that market disappearing altogether.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 21:16:31 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Thu Oct 18 2018 04:44 pm

    And with Windows 10 having a Linux/bash subsystem built-in, there may be even less reason for that for some use-cases.

    I haven't used the Linux subsystem in Windows 10 yet, but it sounds like it's only for command-line software? I doubt Windows 10 is able to run Linux software that uses a GUI, does it?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Minex@VERT/TDOD to MRO on Thu Oct 18 19:18:16 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 2018 03:34 pm

    linux hasnt always been easy to use or hardware friendly. that's probably what held it back. i still think linux is best as a server os.

    Man, isn't this the truth. Linux is used as one of my desktop machines and some of the most mundane tasks are hard as hell in Linux. It can be frustrating at times.

    For example, I want to make it so that the screen does NOT go to sleep after a certain amount of time -- that it stays on. In settings, there's an option to do just that, so I select it. After 10 minutes, the screen still goes to sleep. After an hour searching, I find a way to do it through some obscure command line parameter. I do that only to find the screen still sleeps. After two more hours of research, I just convince myself that I don't care anymore.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Dawn of Demise (tdod.org:5000)
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Fri Oct 19 01:14:52 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 2018 05:16 pm

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Thu Oct 18 2018 04:44 pm

    And with Windows 10 having a Linux/bash subsystem built-in, there may be even less reason for that for some use-cases.

    I haven't used the Linux subsystem in Windows 10 yet, but it sounds like it's only for command-line software? I doubt Windows 10 is able to run Linux software that uses a GUI, does it?

    Right, it's command-line only and works surprisingly well. I'm not really sure what Microsoft's motiviation was for that feature, however.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #48:
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    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Minex on Fri Oct 19 03:57:42 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Minex to MRO on Thu Oct 18 2018 15:18:16

    For example, I want to make it so that the screen does NOT go to sleep after a certain amount of time -- that it stays on. In settings, there's an option to do just that, so I select it. After 10 minutes, the screen still goes to sleep. After an hour searching, I find a way to do it through some obscure command line parameter. I do that only to find the screen still sleeps. After two more hours of research, I just convince myself that I don't care anymore.

    This is EXACTLY why I stopped using Linux as a desktop OS around 20 years ago. I found I was spending at least as much time fighting with it as I was actually getting work done. I switched to Windows and haven't looked back.

    That said, I use Linux for pretty much everything else, and have made a decent career out of it. I handle all the customer-facing VMs and servers for a fairly large ISP, and it's about 95% Linux with a bit of FreeBSD mixed in there just to drive me nuts.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Fri Oct 19 04:03:53 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Chai on Thu Oct 18 2018 19:03:48

    they will never cut social security. i wish you could opt out of it and have your own personal account for your future.

    they will never cut medicare.

    You are right in that these ideas are wildly unpopular, and nobody can even talk about them without risking their political careers.

    Unfortunately, the math says otherwise: there is no money to pay for these programs going forward. It's basically a pyramid scheme you are paying into; it's a massive wealth transfer from healthy people to sicker, older and/or retired people.

    That worked well when we had more people working than we had not working. The balance is slowly tipping, and from what I understand sometime in the 2030s the money will simply run out, and this stuff WILL get cut, for the simple reason there won't be money to keep running it.

    There will be huge pressure to just print more money, which the Fed can do... but my grandparents left Germany to get away from hyperinflation between the World Wars. That could easily happen here as well. Having money doesn't do you any good when the money won't buy food.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Minex on Fri Oct 19 23:39:00 2018
    On 10-18-18 15:18, Minex wrote to MRO <=-

    For example, I want to make it so that the screen does NOT go to sleep after a certain amount of time -- that it stays on. In settings,
    there's an option to do just that, so I select it. After 10 minutes,
    the screen still goes to sleep. After an hour searching, I find a way
    to do it through some obscure command line parameter. I do that only
    to find the screen still sleeps. After two more hours of research, I
    just convince myself that I don't care anymore.

    Depends on the distro. I've had success with Mint, Debian and LUbuntu in tweaking the screen settings through the GUI. Didn't need to use the command line at all. Some distros have fixed their GUI tools, so all the relevant settings can be tweaked just as easily as in Windows. Just did that exact operation on my new LUbuntu netbook installation.


    ... And God said, "Let there be 14.4k baud..."
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Digital Man on Fri Oct 19 23:42:00 2018
    On 10-18-18 21:14, Digital Man wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I haven't used the Linux subsystem in Windows 10 yet, but it sounds like it's only for command-line software? I doubt Windows 10 is able to run Linux software that uses a GUI, does it?

    Right, it's command-line only and works surprisingly well. I'm not
    really sure what Microsoft's motiviation was for that feature, however.

    Here's a silly, weird question. If one was to rujn an X server on Windows 10 and tweak the $DISPLAY variable in the Linux subsystem. Would it be possible to run X clients in the subsystem and have them displayed on the Windows desktop? Has anyone tried?


    ... Hypochondria is the only disease I haven't got.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Fri Oct 19 08:50:18 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 2018 17:16:31

    And with Windows 10 having a Linux/bash subsystem built-in, there may b even less reason for that for some use-cases.

    I haven't used the Linux subsystem in Windows 10 yet, but it sounds like it' only for command-line software? I doubt Windows 10 is able to run Linux software that uses a GUI, does it?

    That was the impression that I have gotten about Windows Subsystem for Linux: Connacle-based repository, all command line. Seems like Cygwin would do a better job with GUI, but it looks out of place to me. I remember getting Cygwin a few years ago and getting KDE 3 (I think) to run in Windows... That was weird.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Vk3jed on Fri Oct 19 12:33:39 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Digital Man on Fri Oct 19 2018 19:42:00

    Here's a silly, weird question. If one was to rujn an X server on Windows 10 and tweak the $DISPLAY variable in the Linux subsystem. Would it be possible to run X clients in the subsystem and have them displayed on the Windows desktop? Has anyone tried?

    It's absolutely possible, and I was doing this as far back as Windows 95. In fact I exported the window manager from one of our Linux servers to my desktop and it looked like I was running linux on my desktop. (I was.)

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 14:01:25 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Minex on Thu Oct 18 2018 11:57 pm

    For example, I want to make it so that the screen does NOT go to sleep
    after a certain amount of time -- that it stays on. In settings,
    there's an option to do just that, so I select it. After 10 minutes,
    the screen still goes to sleep. After an hour searching, I find a way

    This is EXACTLY why I stopped using Linux as a desktop OS around 20 years ago. I found I was spending at least as much time fighting with it as I was actually getting work done. I switched to Windows and haven't looked back.

    I think Linux has gotten better in the past 20 years though.. That said, I don't think I've had the issue with the screen sleep settings, but I've had other issues with Linux in the past. About 15-20 years ago myself, I remember struggling to get the GUI environment working. And, there were times when a certain Linux distro just seemed to work well and was able to get everything set up correctly during the install, but when I installed a newer version of that distro, things were broken.. When it seemed like things were broken every other release of a distro, I didn't bother with Linux too much at home.

    I think it's gotten better though - I don't struggle getting the GUI environment working anymore, and when I install a Linux distro these days, things pretty much tend to 'just work' during the install and things get set up and working fairly well. Since Linux is open-source, there are a lot of developers working on it and adding drivers to enable better hardware support, etc.. If I didn't use so much Windows-specific software, I'd seriously consider using Linux Mint on my desktop PC at home. And even then, there may be a way to get some of my Windows software running in Linux via Wine or something.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Fri Oct 19 14:02:41 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Minex on Fri Oct 19 2018 07:39 pm

    Depends on the distro. I've had success with Mint, Debian and LUbuntu in tweaking the screen settings through the GUI. Didn't need to use the command line at all. Some distros have fixed their GUI tools, so all the relevant settings can be tweaked just as easily as in Windows. Just did that exact operation on my new LUbuntu netbook installation.

    Yep. In the past, I always liked SuSE Linux (now OpenSUSE), because it always seemed to have good tools, and I was able to set up and tweak the GUI more successfully with it than with other distros. My go-to Linux distro for a desktop these days tends to be Mint with Cinnamon.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Nightfox on Fri Oct 19 18:32:45 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 2018 10:01:25

    remember struggling to get the GUI environment working. And, there were times when a certain Linux distro just seemed to work well and was able to get everything set up correctly during the install, but when I installed a newer version of that distro, things were broken.. When it seemed like things were broken every other release of a distro, I didn't bother with Linux too much at home.

    Oh this is still a frustration with Linux for sure. My own pet peeve with the latest CentOS release is that I don't like firewalld, but when 8 comes out they'll probably decide they should handle it some completely different way anyway.

    A lot of decisions are made in linux (and other open source projects) because of political squabbles and ego trips, which is frustrating. But it's probably no worse than marketing people making those decisions.

    LK

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From John Guillory@VERT/MAINLINE to Nightfox on Sat Oct 20 03:40:39 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Thu Oct 18 2018 05:16 pm

    I haven't used the Linux subsystem in Windows 10 yet, but it sounds like
    That's correct, console only, but it does allow programmers to compile software in linux, as well as SSH'ing out to other linux terminals.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ KF5QEO's Shack -- kingcoder.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Fri Oct 19 20:54:27 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Nightfox on Fri Oct 19 2018 02:32 pm

    A lot of decisions are made in linux (and other open source projects) because of political squabbles and ego trips, which is frustrating. But it's probably no worse than marketing people making those decisions.

    Yeah.. That seems to happen a lot with software projects.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to John Guillory on Fri Oct 19 21:25:05 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: John Guillory to Nightfox on Fri Oct 19 2018 11:40 pm

    I haven't used the Linux subsystem in Windows 10 yet, but it sounds
    like

    That's correct, console only, but it does allow programmers to compile software in linux, as well as SSH'ing out to other linux terminals.

    By "in Linux", do you mean it's a real Linux environment? I imagined it might be more of a compatibility layer to allow Windows to run Linux software, but I'm not sure.

    If I were developing software for both Windows and Linux, I might more more inclined to build it on a real Linux system to help ensure it can build and run for Linux.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Lizard King on Sat Oct 20 05:44:54 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Fri Oct 19 2018 12:03 am

    have your own personal account for your future.

    they will never cut medicare.

    You are right in that these ideas are wildly unpopular, and nobody can even talk about them without risking their political careers.

    Unfortunately, the math says otherwise: there is no money to pay for these programs going forward. It's basically a pyramid scheme you are paying


    social security has been in positive cash flow since 1984. the excess money has been invested and yields aroudn 3%

    social security will never run out of money because it is always taking money from the people and the govt can have the interest rates changed and there can be other modifications. there can be changes made to the program, so all is not lost.

    There will be huge pressure to just print more money, which the Fed can do... but my grandparents left Germany to get away from hyperinflation

    they dont need to do that. infact, we can generate money from many other sources. i think we should have a VAT like other countries do.

    there are a lot of ways to make money and there is plenty of time to make changes.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Lizard King on Sat Oct 20 21:44:00 2018
    On 10-19-18 08:33, Lizard King wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Here's a silly, weird question. If one was to rujn an X server on Windows 10 and tweak the $DISPLAY variable in the Linux subsystem. Would it be possible to run X clients in the subsystem and have them displayed on the Windows desktop? Has anyone tried?

    It's absolutely possible, and I was doing this as far back as Windows
    95. In fact I exported the window manager from one of our Linux
    servers to my desktop and it looked like I was running linux on my desktop. (I was.)

    I did it remotely with X clients running on Linux, but don't have a Windows 10 box to try it with.


    ... If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sat Oct 20 21:46:00 2018
    On 10-19-18 10:02, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yep. In the past, I always liked SuSE Linux (now OpenSUSE), because it always seemed to have good tools, and I was able to set up and tweak
    the GUI more successfully with it than with other distros. My go-to

    Interesting, because I felt like I was fighting SuSE, didn't like it at all.

    Linux distro for a desktop these days tends to be Mint with Cinnamon.

    Yep, same here. That's what my Linux desktop here runs.


    ... Idiot (id-ee-it) n.- One who disagrees with you.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Vk3jed on Sun Oct 21 15:58:28 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Lizard King on Sat Oct 20 2018 17:44:00

    I did it remotely with X clients running on Linux, but don't have a Windows 10 box to try it with.

    I've used it at work to avoid the prying eyes of IT; run a firefox session on a Linux VM (which they cannot even see), export display to my laptop, and Facebook all I want. Well within reason anyway.

    Eventually I got tired of that and set up a Win7 VM running under kvm here at home which I would RDP into to do stuff like that while I was at the office.

    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From djatropine@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Sun Oct 21 21:11:36 2018
    A few years ago, Microsoft made an April Fool's Day joke where they announced MS-DOS Mobile, a version of MS-DOS as an OS for their mobile devices. Later, I heard someone actually made an MS-DOS Mobile app.


    I'm actually dreaming of a mobile os which is VERY similar to TEMPLE-OS
    :D



    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/armv7l)
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (723:1/2.4)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From djatropine@VERT/PHARCYDE to Nightfox on Sun Oct 21 21:17:42 2018
    Do the $500 phones last longer? I do not think I've ever spent quite
    that
    much for a phone. So, honestly, I wouldn't know.

    My phone is about 3 years old, still rockin, 2 gb of storage,
    and was the cheapest phone at the shop. ($25 bucks)
    I will use it til it breaks or won't power on. :D



    Oh and it runs CAUSTIC like a
    charm. So wh en I'm on a road-trip or on a airline flight I can be
    rockin' some rhythms on my phone, and throwing in basslines :D )



    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/armv7l)
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (723:1/2.4)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Lizard King on Mon Oct 22 14:10:00 2018
    On 10-21-18 11:58, Lizard King wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've used it at work to avoid the prying eyes of IT; run a firefox
    session on a Linux VM (which they cannot even see), export display to
    my laptop, and Facebook all I want. Well within reason anyway.

    Haha on some sites I've worked on that wouldn't have worked, because those sites enforced the use of a proxy, which subjected you to quotas and ACLs. On one in particular, I had a great proxy setup which used a Linux box running Squid, Samba and Winbind to authenticate against the AD server and then apply ACLs based on the user's AD group membership. No one (except those in management who I told) knew there was a Linux box doing the proxy stuff. Only real issues I had were (1) the Macs on campus couldn't be auto configured to use the proxy, and (2) at the time, IE6 was the dominant browser. IE6 had an annoying bug in that it wouldn't accept proxy configuration by group policy. That became less of an issue as IE7 (which didn't have that bug) became more common onsite. With IE7, the proxy operation was transparent to the user (until they ran out of quota or went to somewhere on the blacklist!).

    This was before Facebook became insanely popular, but YouTube already had a following.

    Eventually I got tired of that and set up a Win7 VM running under kvm
    here at home which I would RDP into to do stuff like that while I was
    at the office.

    That one would have got around the proxy on all except one site, which wanted everything outbound blocked except for HTTP and HTTPS for their user PCs. :)


    ... Too many pray for peace with their fists clenched.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to djatropine on Mon Oct 22 11:50:26 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: djatropine to Nightfox on Sun Oct 21 2018 17:11:36

    A few years ago, Microsoft made an April Fool's Day joke where they announced MS-DOS Mobile, a version of MS-DOS as an OS for their mobile devices. Later, I heard someone actually made an MS-DOS Mobile app.

    I'm actually dreaming of a mobile os which is VERY similar to TEMPLE-OS
    :D

    Good night... would the user have to program their own basic phone functions like the dialer, contact list, etc.? Better learn some C and print the API documentation. :p

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to djatropine on Mon Oct 22 11:54:19 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: djatropine to Nightfox on Sun Oct 21 2018 17:17:42

    Oh and it runs CAUSTIC like a
    charm. So wh en I'm on a road-trip or on a airline flight I can be
    rockin' some rhythms on my phone, and throwing in basslines :D )

    Awesome! I'm not the only one that uses Caustic! I lack the musical talent to create music, but I enjoy playing around in Caustic to create the sounds. When Single Cell Software released an update that included a modular/patch panel machine, I had alot of fun messing around in there.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From djatropine@VERT/PHARCYDE to Jagossel on Mon Oct 22 17:13:42 2018
    app.

    I'm actually dreaming of a mobile os which is VERY similar to
    TEMPLE-OS


    Good night... would the user have to program their own basic phone functions like the dialer, contact list, etc.? Better learn some C and print the API documentation. :p

    -jag Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    Y E S ! !

    Where do I start ?



    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/armv7l)
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (723:1/2.4)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From djatropine@VERT/PHARCYDE to Jagossel on Mon Oct 22 17:20:50 2018
    Awesome! I'm not the only one that uses Caustic! I lack the musical
    talent to create music, but I enjoy playing around in Caustic to create the sounds. When Single Cell Software released an update that included a modular/patch panel machine, I had alot of fun messing around in there.

    -jag Code it, Script it, Automate it

    I'm a travelleing Cavustic spokesperson.
    In fact: Have you ever played with Caustic while on weeee e e e ed?
    [U[U
    I totally LOVE the vocoder :D

    The built in wave- editor. It is a example of BRILLIANT code. I'm also impressed with how small it is. :D

    FLStudio Mobile .. = B L O A T

    Another nice droid program : pDroidParty. It allows you to run Puredata patches :D

    I wish I still had the wave file however I was in Atlanta a few years ago
    , traveled to experience Autechre, arriving about a hour early, then
    I see something which I thought was a fire truck yet it was a fire
    hydrant wh ich blew up and flood was everywhere, so I puffed some herb,
    got out my phone , loaded up Caustic ,and recorded the sound. Then the
    weed kicks in and I did a "parking lot" p.a. with Caustic :D :D

    I call it raver crack.


    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/armv7l)
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (723:1/2.4)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Vk3jed on Mon Oct 22 14:27:03 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Lizard King on Mon Oct 22 2018 10:10:00

    That one would have got around the proxy on all except one site, which wanted everything outbound blocked except for HTTP and HTTPS for their user PCs. :)

    I would have tried setting up a port forward on 80 or 443 to see if that worked before giving up. I always put RDP on a non-standard port anyway, just because.

    I don't understand the proxy issue though -- the Linux VM I was running firefox on isn't part of the IT network, but can reach the IT network. So they have no idea I'm running a web browser at all, and all the http requests were going out of one of our datacenters, not the office. This is something that IT literally does not have access to. All they'd see is a mysterious inbound TCP connection to my laptop that is very chatty.

    Now if you want to talk about something crazy, in the early 90s I worked in a government facility and managed to get my PC on the Internet -- web browser and everything. That was through a BBS called "FedWorld" (no, really) that operated on the gov't network and had an Internet connection. Anyone remember "term"?

    That gave the security people FITS. They could not understand how I was doing it and tore apart my office looking for a modem. They never could find that modem because it didn't exist. I thought the whole thing was very amusing.

    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to djatropine on Mon Oct 22 14:28:47 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: djatropine to Nightfox on Sun Oct 21 2018 17:11:36

    I'm actually dreaming of a mobile os which is VERY similar to TEMPLE-OS
    :D

    I'm amazed how many people know about Temple-OS considering how weird and useless it is. Does anyone actually use it for anything (now that the guy who wrote it isn't around anymore)?

    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Minex@VERT/TDOD to djatropine on Mon Oct 22 13:18:27 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: djatropine to Nightfox on Sun Oct 21 2018 05:17 pm

    My phone is about 3 years old, still rockin, 2 gb of storage,
    and was the cheapest phone at the shop. ($25 bucks)
    I will use it til it breaks or won't power on. :D

    I'm still rocking my iPhone 5. I MAY upgrade to the iPhone SE. I am definitely the minority, but I just want a smaller phone. I don't get the fascination with larger phones because I just hate lugging shit around.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Dawn of Demise (tdod.org:5000)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Minex on Mon Oct 22 19:46:43 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Minex to djatropine on Mon Oct 22 2018 09:18 am

    I'm still rocking my iPhone 5. I MAY upgrade to the iPhone SE. I am definitely the minority, but I just want a smaller phone. I don't get the fascination with larger phones because I just hate lugging shit around.

    I don't really like bigger phones either. It used to be that smaller phones were considered better because of what you said, people didn't want to lug around big phones, but now it seems a bigger screen is desirable. I keep (jokingly) wondering if they'll start making cell phones as big as tablets or computer monitors.. I imagine someone holding a monitor-sized screen to their head saying "Can you hear me now?"

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From djatropine@VERT/PHARCYDE to Lizard King on Mon Oct 22 23:21:20 2018
    I'm amazed how many people know about Temple-OS considering how weird and useless it is. Does anyone actually use it for anything (now that the
    guy who wrote it isn't around anymore)?

    //lizard_king

    Oh. Useless? I don't think so :D

    With audio drivers it would be super super tight.


    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/armv7l)
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (723:1/2.4)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Minex on Mon Oct 22 23:55:36 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Minex to djatropine on Mon Oct 22 2018 09:18 am

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: djatropine to Nightfox on Sun Oct 21 2018 05:17 pm

    My phone is about 3 years old, still rockin, 2 gb of storage,
    and was the cheapest phone at the shop. ($25 bucks)
    I will use it til it breaks or won't power on. :D

    I'm still rocking my iPhone 5. I MAY upgrade to the iPhone SE. I am definitely the minority, but I just want a smaller phone. I don't get the fascination with larger phones because I just hate lugging shit around.


    Wow I didn't know he died. He was a weird one!



    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #54:
    UART = Universal Asynchronous Receiver/Transmitter
    Norco, CA WX: 64.7°F, 78.0% humidity, 5 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Lizard King on Tue Oct 23 12:30:56 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to djatropine on Mon Oct 22 2018 10:28:47

    I'm amazed how many people know about Temple-OS considering how weird and useless it is. Does anyone actually use it for anything (now that the guy w wrote it isn't around anymore)?

    I have only heard about Temple-OS many years ago, but never really used it. For me, it is way too low-level for my taste. The fact it operates on level 1 or 2 (I don't recall which one exactly) of the kernel ring is interesting.

    Also, I don't recall how I discovered Temple-OS (maybe SlashDot?), but I remember watching the demo, and he claimed that "God" got his network connection established. I also remember him showing a couple of games on it.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Nightfox on Tue Oct 23 12:34:07 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Minex on Mon Oct 22 2018 15:46:43

    I'm still rocking my iPhone 5. I MAY upgrade to the iPhone SE. I am definitely the minority, but I just want a smaller phone. I don't get t fascination with larger phones because I just hate lugging shit around.

    I don't really like bigger phones either. It used to be that smaller phones were considered better because of what you said, people didn't want to lug around big phones, but now it seems a bigger screen is desirable. I keep (jokingly) wondering if they'll start making cell phones as big as tablets o computer monitors.. I imagine someone holding a monitor-sized screen to the head saying "Can you hear me now?"

    Wasn't the Samsung Note crossing that threshold of phone and tablet? I don't remember which phone it was exactly, but I remember it being an excessively large phone or a ridicously small tablet.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Digital Man on Tue Oct 23 12:38:41 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Minex on Mon Oct 22 2018 19:55:36

    My phone is about 3 years old, still rockin, 2 gb of storage,
    and was the cheapest phone at the shop. ($25 bucks)
    I will use it til it breaks or won't power on. :D

    I'm still rocking my iPhone 5. I MAY upgrade to the iPhone SE. I am definitely the minority, but I just want a smaller phone. I don't get th fascination with larger phones because I just hate lugging shit around.

    Wow I didn't know he died. He was a weird one!

    Quoted the wrong message? :D

    If you're referring to the developer of Temple-OS, I agree. If I recall, he really did have a mentaln illness that lead him to develop Temple-OS. It did show, a little bit, that he was mentally ill. Admitally, though, Temple-OS is unique.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Jagossel on Tue Oct 23 13:57:00 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Jagossel to Digital Man on Tue Oct 23 2018 08:38 am

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Minex on Mon Oct 22 2018 19:55:36

    My phone is about 3 years old, still rockin, 2 gb of storage,
    and was the cheapest phone at the shop. ($25 bucks)
    I will use it til it breaks or won't power on. :D

    I'm still rocking my iPhone 5. I MAY upgrade to the iPhone SE. I am definitely the minority, but I just want a smaller phone. I don't get th fascination with larger phones because I just hate lugging shit around.

    Wow I didn't know he died. He was a weird one!

    Quoted the wrong message? :D

    Yup!

    If you're referring to the developer of Temple-OS, I agree. If I recall, he really did have a mentaln illness that lead him to develop Temple-OS. It did show, a little bit, that he was mentally ill. Admitally, though, Temple-OS is unique.

    Exactly. :-)

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #7:
    Nigel Tufnel: That's just nitpicking, isn't it?
    Norco, CA WX: 66.4°F, 82.0% humidity, 2 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jagossel on Tue Oct 23 14:06:03 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Jagossel to Nightfox on Tue Oct 23 2018 08:34 am

    Wasn't the Samsung Note crossing that threshold of phone and tablet? I don't remember which phone it was exactly, but I remember it being an excessively large phone or a ridicously small tablet.

    I'm not sure, I haven't relly looked at it.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to djatropine on Tue Oct 23 21:34:08 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: djatropine to Lizard King on Mon Oct 22 2018 07:21 pm

    I'm amazed how many people know about Temple-OS considering how weird and useless it is. Does anyone actually use it for anything (now that the
    guy who wrote it isn't around anymore)?

    //lizard_king

    Oh. Useless? I don't think so :D

    With audio drivers it would be super super tight.

    seems like it would be difficult to get running and less than useful once you would get it up. also i'm not so keen on running an os from someone who's mentally ill.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Tue Oct 23 21:44:27 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Minex on Mon Oct 22 2018 07:55 pm

    Wow I didn't know he died. He was a weird one!

    i've seen him in videos a few times over the years. usually people who think he's a genius post info on him trying to spread the word.

    my gf's brother was schitzophrenic and died by being hit by a train too. i wouldnt recommend it; it pretty much obliterates the body.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Digital Man on Tue Oct 23 22:39:11 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Jagossel on Tue Oct 23 2018 09:57:00

    If you're referring to the developer of Temple-OS, I agree. If I recall, he really did have a mentaln illness that lead him to develop Temple-OS. It did show, a little bit, that he was mentally ill. Admitally, though, Temple-OS is unique.

    Exactly. :-)

    From what I gathered, he wasn't just ill, he was schizophrenic and didn't take his meds. I think he ended up homeless before the end.

    He believed that God directed him to make that OS, and God dictated the programming language he should use (Holy-C) and even the screen resolution it should have (640x480 if I remember right).

    He also had some fairly unpleasant theories about "n-ggers" and Jews being responsible for various programming language features. There are youtube videos in which he rants about a wide variety of things, including Linux.

    A strange dude for sure. And Temple-OS might be even stranger.

    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to MRO on Tue Oct 23 22:45:57 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to djatropine on Tue Oct 23 2018 17:34:08

    seems like it would be difficult to get running and less than useful once you would get it up. also i'm not so keen on running an os from someone who's mentally ill.

    Actually it is amazingly easy to set up, and if you have vmware player/workstation you can have a TempleOS install going in about 5 minutes.

    What you will DO with it is something that I could not personally figure out.

    The color scheme and flashing cursor stuff also put me off... it's pretty garish and noisy.

    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 17:24:00 2018
    On 10-22-18 10:27, Lizard King wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I would have tried setting up a port forward on 80 or 443 to see if
    that worked before giving up. I always put RDP on a non-standard port anyway, just because.

    In this case, the traffic being blocked is the OUTBOUND, so port forwarding is irrelevant I only have to allow access to those ports from the proxy server.
    )

    I don't understand the proxy issue though -- the Linux VM I was running firefox on isn't part of the IT network, but can reach the IT network.
    So they have no idea I'm running a web browser at all, and all the http requests were going out of one of our datacenters, not the office.
    This is something that IT literally does not have access to. All
    they'd see is a mysterious inbound TCP connection to my laptop that is very chatty.

    Hmm, strange. I did my traffic control at the entry/exit points of the network. I've enforced the use of proxies at different times for 2 reasons:

    1. Traffic/bandwidth management in the early days, when conserving bandwidth was paramount. The proxy was actually a Squid cache. Caching was a major performance booster when the Internet connection was 33.6k dialup. A side effect is I occasionally sprung someone surfing porn, which a friendly "Oh, that's an interesting site you're surfing" phone call resolved. :)

    2. Traffic Access control/quota management - using a proxy here allows control to be applied to enforce quotas or network policies. I mentioned the proxy used for quota management. On another site, they ran a youth program, and the proxy there was locked down pretty tight to keep the kids focused on the program. Any attempt to break the rules gave an error in bright red, which also gave instructions on who to contact if they had a legitimate need to have the rules tweaked. Again, this one ran Squid. Enforcing proxy use also means the access is logged, which is sometimes handy for troubleshooting. I discovered a multiplayer gaming site that would trigger the IDS with a false positive on a cyber attack, by watching the logs in real time. The attack warning would come up whenever someone tried to acesss that site.

    Now if you want to talk about something crazy, in the early 90s I
    worked in a government facility and managed to get my PC on the
    Internet -- web browser and everything. That was through a BBS called "FedWorld" (no, really) that operated on the gov't network and had an Internet connection. Anyone remember "term"?

    The name rings a bell, don't remember anything though.

    That gave the security people FITS. They could not understand how I
    was doing it and tore apart my office looking for a modem. They never could find that modem because it didn't exist. I thought the whole
    thing was very amusing.

    Hahaha good one. :)


    ... "Farfrompoopin'" - German word for constipation.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Vk3jed on Wed Oct 24 04:50:16 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 2018 13:24:00

    1. Traffic/bandwidth management in the early days, when conserving bandwidth was paramount. The proxy was actually a Squid cache. Caching was a major performance booster when the Internet connection was 33.6k dialup.
    A side effect is I occasionally sprung someone surfing porn, which a friendly "Oh, that's an interesting site you're surfing" phone call resolved. :)

    I had to do this also on a network I managed, but we're going back to the mid-90s now. At one point because of an error (bonehead office manager canceled the upstream network connection) we were running the whole office across dual 56k dialup links. I had to be a real bastard about who was using the network for what, and I had persistent web traffic I couldn't figure out.

    Finally I increased the logging until I saw what it was. Not just porn, but gay porn. Not just gay porn but really explicit gay porn. And I knew whose computer it was. I sent out an email to the office saying we were monitoring the web usage and to please keep it work-related.

    An hour went by, and he was still at it. Finally I got up from my desk, walked over, and said to him "I can see everything you're looking at." Real quiet so no one overheard. The color drained from his face and he never made eye contact with me again. He was a very closeted dude, married, kids. I felt kind of bad, but I gave him plenty of chances. And that ended the ack starvation problem that was generating tons of complaints.

    "FedWorld" (no, really) that operated on the gov't network and had an Internet connection. Anyone remember "term"?

    The name rings a bell, don't remember anything though.

    I don't remember the particulars of how it worked, but you ran it on the remote end of a telnet session and it tunnelled TCP/IP over telnet. Applications had to be compiled with term support; "mosaic+term" was something I ran a lot.
    This would have been... 1994/1995. The web was very much in its infancy.

    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Jagossel@VERT/MTLGEEK to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 12:35:02 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to MRO on Tue Oct 23 2018 18:45:57

    seems like it would be difficult to get running and less than useful once you would get it up. also i'm not so keen on running an os from someone who's mentally ill.

    Actually it is amazingly easy to set up, and if you have vmware player/workstation you can have a TempleOS install going in about 5 minutes.

    What you will DO with it is something that I could not personally figure out

    The color scheme and flashing cursor stuff also put me off... it's pretty garish and noisy.

    The demos that I've seen so far, it shows how noisy it is, UI wise. All of the windows have a scrolling title bar that runs all of the time. That alone would drive me crazy, let alone having to code everything in Holy-C.

    I have looked up Temple-OS last night, and it is definitely unique as it tries to, somewhat, keep the 8-bit computer metaphore of having the an intrepreter ready and running after booting. Also, found out it runs on level 0 of the kernel ring, which still too low level for me.

    Temple-OS is unique, I will give it that. The fact thar it is public domain is a bit odd.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 12:41:08 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Digital Man on Tue Oct 23 2018 06:39 pm

    From what I gathered, he wasn't just ill, he was schizophrenic and didn't take his meds. I think he ended up homeless before the end.

    He believed that God directed him to make that OS, and God dictated the programming language he should use (Holy-C) and even the screen resolution it should have (640x480 if I remember right).

    He also had some fairly unpleasant theories about "n-ggers" and Jews being responsible for various programming language features. There are youtube videos in which he rants about a wide variety of things, including Linux.

    A strange dude for sure. And Temple-OS might be even stranger.

    I had never heard of Temple-OS or this guy before this thread came up here.. But this reminds me a bit of a guy who posted some messages on Dove-Net several years ago about some new OS he was developing with "HyperTurbo" in the name. He claimed it could run software made for any OS and was super fast. It seemed to be vaporware though.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Lizard King on Thu Oct 25 10:38:00 2018
    On 10-24-18 00:50, Lizard King wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I had to do this also on a network I managed, but we're going back to
    the mid-90s now. At one point because of an error (bonehead office manager canceled the upstream network connection) we were running the whole office across dual 56k dialup links. I had to be a real bastard about who was using the network for what, and I had persistent web
    traffic I couldn't figure out.

    Yeah, my dialup proxy was mid 90s as well. All we could afford as a company was dialup, because commercial Internet charges and also ISDN were rather expensive. Actually, ISDN was cheap to have installed, it was the timed call charges that were the killer, especially when using 2 B channels.

    Finally I increased the logging until I saw what it was. Not just
    porn, but gay porn. Not just gay porn but really explicit gay porn.
    And I knew whose computer it was. I sent out an email to the office saying we were monitoring the web usage and to please keep it work-related.

    Oh dear.

    An hour went by, and he was still at it. Finally I got up from my
    desk, walked over, and said to him "I can see everything you're looking at." Real quiet so no one overheard. The color drained from his face
    and he never made eye contact with me again. He was a very closeted
    dude, married, kids. I felt kind of bad, but I gave him plenty of chances. And that ended the ack starvation problem that was generating tons of complaints.

    Yeah, that makes it tough, but work's for working, and there's a whole host of other issues. I had a similar issue with the boss's Internet connection at home, which was also a VPN link to the office, and when diagnosing a speed issue (this was mid 2000s, so it was all ADSL and VPN), I found a lot of strange entries in the log for what looked suspiciously like a dating site. Further investigation revealed it to be a gay dating site, and the traffic originated on his son's computer. His son was 16 at the time, IIRC, which meant he most likely was breaking the site's age policy. So that called for a rather delicate conversation.

    Turns out he knew his son was questioning his sexuality, with the only real issue of him being underage on a dating site, so it ended well, fortunately.

    I don't remember the particulars of how it worked, but you ran it on
    the remote end of a telnet session and it tunnelled TCP/IP over telnet.
    Applications had to be compiled with term support; "mosaic+term" was something I ran a lot. This would have been... 1994/1995. The web was very much in its infancy.

    Sounds a bit like SSH forwarding, which you can do the same with, with a bit of work (people have done things like tunnel PPP over SSH :) ).


    ... Staring into a dragon's jaws, one quickly learns wisdom.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Wed Oct 24 17:08:23 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Thu Oct 18 2018 09:40 am

    enough computers were bundled with OS/2. And I think Microsoft was using some tactics to provide PC makers a lot more incentive to install Windows, making Windows more popular.

    Microsoft pressured PC vendors to buy a Windows license for every PC sold, to "combat piracy". That had the result of driving vendors to market Windows, since they're already paying for it.

    There was a means where someone with determination could get a refund for an unused Windows license on a new PC, made for some entertaining reading.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed Oct 24 20:34:25 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Wed Oct 24 2018 08:41 am

    But this reminds me a bit of a guy who posted some messages on Dove-Net several years ago about some new OS he was developing with "HyperTurbo" in the name. He claimed it could run software made for any OS and was super fast. It seemed to be vaporware though.


    Yeah, that guy is crazy too. hunter reyes barnes or something
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Oct 24 19:17:17 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed Oct 24 2018 01:08 pm

    Microsoft pressured PC vendors to buy a Windows license for every PC sold, to "combat piracy". That had the result of driving vendors to market Windows, since they're already paying for it.

    I'd think a PC vendor would have the choice to install whatever OS they wanted to install on their PCs. PC vendors would pay for a license for whatever OS they choose to install, including Windows. I'm not sure it should be up to the PC vendors to have the burden of preventing piracy of an OS they might not choose to install on their PCs. This seems like a roundabout way of Microsoft saying "We want you to buy our OS".

    There was a means where someone with determination could get a refund for an unused Windows license on a new PC, made for some entertaining reading.

    That would be interesting. I suppose Microsoft was probably aware this sceme was a winning tactic for them, since many people wouldn't care enough to get a refund and buy another OS.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Vk3jed on Thu Oct 25 01:03:50 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Vk3jed to Lizard King on Thu Oct 25 2018 06:38:00

    of other issues. I had a similar issue with the boss's Internet connection at home, which was also a VPN link to the office, and when diagnosing a speed issue (this was mid 2000s, so it was all ADSL and VPN), I found a lot of strange entries in the log for what looked suspiciously like a dating site. Further investigation revealed it to be a gay dating site, and the

    This reminds me of when I was setting up a new computer for the CEO of a consulting client after hours (when I preferred to do this sort of thing).
    This was a mid-sized company that handled marine shipping; crude oil, mostly.

    While looking through the files that needed to be moved over there were a lot of Word and Excel files, a bunch of technical blueprints, all that sort of thing... and about 50 gigs of porn. (A lot at the time.) He was into Latinas apparently.

    So I call him up.

    "There are a bunch of files on here that I'm not sure if you want to keep or not."
    "Yeah I need all the documents, and the email, and the ship designs."
    "I've got all that, yeah. It's the... other files."
    "Which files?"
    "They look like they might not be, strictly speaking, work-related."
    "Oh! Shit. Umm. Yeah. Let's keep those."
    "Done. Have a good night."

    Sounds a bit like SSH forwarding, which you can do the same with, with a bit of work (people have done things like tunnel PPP over SSH :) ).

    Yep, this was years before ssh though... or at least before I heard of ssh. :)

    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Nightfox on Thu Oct 25 01:09:31 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Oct 24 2018 15:17:17

    I'd think a PC vendor would have the choice to install whatever OS they wanted to install on their PCs. PC vendors would pay for a license for whatever OS they choose to install, including Windows. I'm not sure it should be up to the PC vendors to have the burden of preventing piracy of an OS they might not choose to install on their PCs. This seems like a roundabout way of Microsoft saying "We want you to buy our OS".

    You'd think so... but a PC vendor would go out of business, and quickly, if Microsoft refused to sell them licenses. So they could pressure them to do things like install Windows on everything, or at least charge for the license anyway if it came pre-installed with Linux. (I remember a few of those being around, but they were few and far between.)

    Personally I've always preferred to do my own builds, but once in a while I'll need a PC for something on short notice and will buy one at Fry's or whatever, and then I end up with a Microsoft Windows CD/DVD which then gets used in countless VM installs. I've currently got an old copy of Windows 7 that about 3 VMs were installed off... and I think that's even legal since it's rare that two would be running at the same time, much less 3.

    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 01:03:00 2018
    On 10-24-18 21:03, Lizard King wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    While looking through the files that needed to be moved over there were
    a lot of Word and Excel files, a bunch of technical blueprints, all
    that sort of thing... and about 50 gigs of porn. (A lot at the time.)
    He was into Latinas apparently.

    Oops! :D

    Sounds a bit like SSH forwarding, which you can do the same with, with a bit of work (people have done things like tunnel PPP over SSH :) ).

    Yep, this was years before ssh though... or at least before I heard of ssh. :)

    Yeah, it would be for most people. I was using SSH around that time myself. :)


    ... Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time and annoys the pig.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Thu Oct 25 14:00:51 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Nightfox on Wed Oct 24 2018 09:09 pm

    I'd think a PC vendor would have the choice to install whatever OS
    they wanted to install on their PCs. PC vendors would pay for a
    license for whatever OS they choose to install, including Windows.

    You'd think so... but a PC vendor would go out of business, and quickly, if Microsoft refused to sell them licenses. So they could pressure them to do things like install Windows on everything, or at least charge for the license anyway if it came pre-installed with Linux. (I remember a few of those being around, but they were few and far between.)

    I'm sure Microsoft would be happy to sell a Windows license. Why would Microsoft refuse to sell a license for Windows?

    Personally I've always preferred to do my own builds, but once in a while I'll need a PC for something on short notice and will buy one at Fry's or whatever, and then I end up with a Microsoft Windows CD/DVD which then gets used in countless VM installs. I've currently got an old copy of Windows 7 that about 3 VMs were installed off... and I think that's even legal since it's rare that two would be running at the same time, much less 3.

    It seems to me that for a long time, PC makers have been including system restore discs with their PCs rather than the original Windows install discs. The restore discs would be specific to that machine and basically restore the factory Windows installation along with whatever software they wanted to include on the PC. And these days, PC makers don't actually include the discs anymore, instead relying on a restore partition on the hard drive, or letting you download a restore ISO from their web site online.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Nightfox on Thu Oct 25 23:26:59 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Thu Oct 25 2018 10:00:51

    I'm sure Microsoft would be happy to sell a Windows license. Why would Microsoft refuse to sell a license for Windows?

    I could totally see Microsoft refusing to give a company a certain price unless they agreed to sell licenses on all their PCs, not just some of them. They regularly forced other companies out of business doing predatory things like this, and if that didn't work, they'd buy the company and just stop producing their stuff. I believe they did that to Borland, which is a damn shame because they had the best IDE around.


    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 13:53:48 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Nightfox on Thu Oct 25 2018 07:26 pm

    I could totally see Microsoft refusing to give a company a certain price unless they agreed to sell licenses on all their PCs, not just some of them. They regularly forced other companies out of business doing predatory things like this, and if that didn't work, they'd buy the company and just stop producing their stuff.

    Yeah, I had heard about Microsoft doing stuff like that, and I never really liked Microsoft for that..

    I believe they did that to
    Borland, which is a damn shame because they had the best IDE around.

    I don't think Microsoft ever bought Borland.. I had seen Borland still around a while ago. And I just did some searching online, and found a page saying "Borland is now part of Micro Focus":
    https://www.microfocus.com/borland

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From nugax@VERT/BYTEXCHG to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 17:04:46 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Nightfox on Thu Oct 25 2018 07:26 pm

    I'm sure Microsoft would be happy to sell a Windows license. Why
    would Microsoft refuse to sell a license for Windows?

    I could totally see Microsoft refusing to give a company a certain price unless they agreed to sell licenses on all their PCs, not just some of them. They regularly forced other companies out of business doing predatory things like this, and if that didn't work, they'd buy the company and just stop producing their stuff. I believe they did that to Borland, which is a damn shame because they had the best IDE around.


    Microsoft is horrid. I wonder how they are even still in business... :)
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The ByteXchange BBS | bbs.thebytexchange.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to nugax on Fri Oct 26 20:17:32 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: nugax to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 2018 01:04 pm

    that to Borland, which is a damn shame because they had the best IDE around.


    Microsoft is horrid. I wonder how they are even still in business... :)


    it's because they offer the best operating system for the widest range of people.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to Nightfox on Fri Oct 26 19:56:02 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 2018 09:53:48

    I don't think Microsoft ever bought Borland.. I had seen Borland still around a while ago. And I just did some searching online, and found a page saying "Borland is now part of Micro Focus": https://www.microfocus.com/borland

    You're right, I mis-remembered. What actually happened (just did a bit of research) was Microsoft released a low-cost competitor to Borland Pascal, and presumably undercut their other compilers as well. That was around the time Borland stopped doing new releases.

    In the meantime Borland was getting into databases, and released Quattro Pro, and started eating away at Lotus's marketshare (for which they'd get sued).

    There was some restructuring and layoffs in there which probably didn't help either.

    But the end result was, if you wanted to compile code for Windows, you were probably using a Microsoft compiler. Borland stuff just disappeared. I lost interest and shifted my attention to Linux.


    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Lizard King@VERT/RUNDER to nugax on Fri Oct 26 19:57:15 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: nugax to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 2018 13:04:46

    Microsoft is horrid. I wonder how they are even still in business... :)

    Sadly they did very well by being horrible. Apple and Google behave in reprehensible ways also, but people don't seem to notice nearly as much.

    //lizard_king

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Retro Underground - retrounderground.org:6423
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Sat Oct 27 05:53:31 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Lizard King on Fri Oct 26 2018 09:53 am

    I believe they did that to
    Borland, which is a damn shame because they had the best IDE around.

    I don't think Microsoft ever bought Borland.. I had seen Borland still around a while ago. And I just did some searching online, and found a page saying "Borland is now part of Micro Focus": https://www.microfocus.com/borland

    Yes, but the development tools (Delpi, C++) went to Embacadero Technologies: https://www.embarcadero.com/

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #82:
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    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to MRO on Sat Oct 27 05:58:36 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to nugax on Fri Oct 26 2018 04:17 pm

    Microsoft is horrid. I wonder how they are even still in business... :)


    it's because they offer the best operating system for the widest range of people.

    I'm pretty sure if they only offered an operating system they would've been marginalized a long time ago. I think it's all their other market-leading software (e.g. office), devices (e.g. Xbox), and services (e.g. Skype) that more likely have kept them successful.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #10:
    The name "DOVE-Net" was suggested by King Drafus (sysop of The Beast's Domain). Norco, CA WX: 69.2°F, 55.0% humidity, 1 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Lizard King on Sat Oct 27 06:01:04 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Nightfox on Fri Oct 26 2018 03:56 pm

    But the end result was, if you wanted to compile code for Windows, you were probably using a Microsoft compiler. Borland stuff just disappeared. I lost interest and shifted my attention to Linux.

    Yeah, that's not all what happened, but that's okay. :-)

    The path of their dev tools, which are still developed and released today for multiple platforms:
    Borland (and Imprise)->Codegear->Embarcadero Technologies

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #2:
    Nigel Tufnel: Well, this piece is called "Lick My Love Pump".
    Norco, CA WX: 69.2°F, 55.0% humidity, 1 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sat Oct 27 15:24:00 2018
    On 10-26-18 09:53, Nightfox wrote to Lizard King <=-

    I don't think Microsoft ever bought Borland.. I had seen Borland still around a while ago. And I just did some searching online, and found a page saying "Borland is now part of Micro Focus": https://www.microfocus.com/borland

    No I don't think they did either, and yes I used to quite like the Borland IDEs back in the DOS days.


    ... I do not think it means what you think it means.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to nugax on Sat Oct 27 15:26:00 2018
    On 10-26-18 13:04, nugax wrote to Lizard King <=-

    Microsoft is horrid. I wonder how they are even still in business... :)

    They got themselves out to the masses, and now have a large part of the OS market, especially for end users.


    ... Two peoples separated by a common language.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Sat Oct 27 16:04:25 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to MRO on Sat Oct 27 2018 01:58 am

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to nugax on Fri Oct 26 2018 04:17 pm

    Microsoft is horrid. I wonder how they are even still in business... :)


    it's because they offer the best operating system for the widest range of people.

    I'm pretty sure if they only offered an operating system they would've been marginalized a long time ago. I think it's all their other market-leading software (e.g. office), devices (e.g. Xbox), and services (e.g. Skype) that more likely have kept them successful.


    yeah, i meant back then in the time frame where they were making deals with vendors for the os installs.

    they have diversified a lot and have failed sometimes. i havent used skype in years, so dont know if it's improved since i was a paying customer. i know people who went through 3 xboxes back in the day due to quality issues.

    i think they're successful because they earned it, not because they are an evil company.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Chai@VERT/FRUGALBB to MRO on Sat Oct 27 21:35:00 2018
    MRO wrote to Digital Man <=-

    i think they're successful because they earned it, not because they are
    an evil company.

    Bad behavior is still bad, regardless of success. They've made a lot of effort in trying to distance themselves from the Microsoft of the past. We'll be watching.

    Windows is highly capable of doing a lot of things, but at least with Windows 10, I consider it an average OS. We just don't have anything better to replace it with, and even a perfect OS, without software, is still a useless OS. Nevermind the issue of getting hardware vendors to support the new OS.

    I'm happy enough with Windows, as long as it stays out of my way. It's the application developers that make most of my system's functionality valuable anyway. I do like the fact that MS seems to be updating my current OS, as opposed to pushing a new OS every three years. I do not know how long that
    ill
    last.


    ... Make it idiot proof, and someone will make a better idiot.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Frugal Computing BBS - frugalbbs.com
  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to Lizard King on Sun Oct 28 17:25:04 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Lizard King to Vk3jed on Wed Oct 24 2018 21:03:50

    This reminds me of when I was setting up a new computer for the CEO of a consulting client after hours (when I preferred to do this sort of thing).

    While looking through the files that needed to be moved over there were a lot of Word and Excel files, a bunch of technical blueprints, all that sort of thing... and about 50 gigs of porn. (A lot at the time.) He was into Latinas apparently.

    Hah! I had something very similar. At each site that I go to, there's usually just one desktop machine for everyone to use. There are two accounts, a manager account and a general staff account.

    Of course, the people using the thing don't care about it because it's not THEIR machine, so after a few months it's a disaster and they call me in to reinstall. Since administration stuff is done via the manager account, I login to that, and proceed to start saving the work-related files. Amongst all these is a folder of pictures... pictures that the manager had taken. Pictures of his wife in various stages of unclothed-itude. Pictures of his own questionable parts, along with text files and saved emails from the accompanying ads he'd put up on Craigslist seeking secret flings.

    I backed it up all up, reinstalled everything, but kept his stuff on a USB drive. As I was leaving, I handed him the drive and said, "Yeah, you might not want to keep this stuff in a folder on the desktop."

    He paused and it took a minute for him to understand what I'd just given him, and wat I was saying, before finally saying, "Well. That's... that's just wonderful that you've seen that. Can we never talk about this again?"

    It didn't stop him in the future, of course, and soon there were printouts of his emails (which he'd leave open when he went home) all over the office, but that's another story.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 2,500+ files
  • From djatropine@VERT/PHARCYDE to Jagossel on Mon Oct 29 01:07:18 2018
    Awesome! I'm not the only one that uses Caustic! I lack the musical
    talent to create music, but I enjoy playing around in Caustic to create the sounds. When Single Cell Software released an update that included a modular/patch panel machine, I had alot of fun messing around in there.

    Have you ever used Causted while on weeeeeed?
    :D

    I am about to upload a b unhc of stems to my bbs which i don't advertise


    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/armv7l)
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (723:1/2.4)
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Mon Oct 29 13:44:16 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Sat Oct 27 2018 01:53 am

    I don't think Microsoft ever bought Borland.. I had seen Borland
    still around a while ago. And I just did some searching online, and
    found a page saying "Borland is now part of Micro Focus":
    https://www.microfocus.com/borland

    Yes, but the development tools (Delpi, C++) went to Embacadero Technologies: https://www.embarcadero.com/

    I was wondering what happened to those tools.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Mon Oct 29 13:59:23 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Sat Oct 27 2018 12:04 pm

    it's because they offer the best operating system for the widest
    range of people.

    yeah, i meant back then in the time frame where they were making deals with vendors for the os installs.

    i think they're successful because they earned it, not because they are an evil company.

    I heard Microsoft made a lot of deals with PC vendors with stipulations like the PC vendors couldn't install competing software (for instance, PC vendors couldn't install other web browsers because Microsoft wanted only IE on the systems), and things like that. Things like that seem like anti-competitive behavior. Perhaps Microsoft earned their success to an extent, but IMO anti-competitive behavior is more of a bullying tactic and I don't think that means they have earned it. There were other operating systems back in the day that were certainly good, such as OS/2. I think Microsoft was just more aggressive in how they marketed Windows and pushed Windows with PC vendors.

    I used to often think Windows was crap. It seemed bloated (you needed a relatively powerful PC to run it) and sometimes it seemed like it would crash a lot. I haven't had a Windows crash on my home PC in a long time though..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Mon Oct 29 22:43:07 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices

    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Oct 29 2018 09:59 am

    I heard Microsoft made a lot of deals with PC vendors with stipulations like the PC vendors couldn't install competing software (for instance, PC vendors couldn't install other web browsers because Microsoft wanted only IE on the systems), and things like that. Things like that seem like anti-competitive behavior. Perhaps Microsoft earned their success to an extent, but IMO


    i've heard things. i'm not sure if they're all true. i've also heard that they gave deals for windows being installed on the computer and other sofwares would cost the vendor and customer more.

    behavior. Perhaps Microsoft earned their success to an extent, but IMO anti-competitive behavior is more of a bullying tactic and I don't think that means they have earned it. There were other operating systems back in


    this was the old days. they weren't being a bully. they were just being competitive.

    OS2 and other softwares were not as polished as windows. the customer made out well in the end.

    I used to often think Windows was crap. It seemed bloated (you needed a relatively powerful PC to run it) and sometimes it seemed like it would crash a lot. I haven't had a Windows crash on my home PC in a long time though..

    that's probably the 3rd party software you were using or you had a hardware problem. i was running windows 7 ultimate on a 1ghz netbook with 1 gig of ram. and i was playing wow on it at work on the low settings. you can make vm with 300-500mb of memory and run windows 7 in there.

    i dont like the word 'crash' people use that word for EVERYTHING. did you bluescreen [and if so, what was the error code], did you lose your entire filesystem, did your windows os become corrupted and need a restore or reinstall?

    for me windows 10 has been real good. i think it spontaneously rebooted once on me and i had it running for over a month. i notice my browsers take up a ton of memory and need to be closed. i think we need to be more strict with 3rd party developers.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Tue Oct 30 01:48:59 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Oct 29 2018 06:43 pm

    OS2 and other softwares were not as polished as windows. the customer made out well in the end.

    I'm not sure, I think OS/2 looked fairly nice.

    I used to often think Windows was crap. It seemed bloated (you needed
    a relatively powerful PC to run it) and sometimes it seemed like it
    would crash a lot. I haven't had a Windows crash on my home PC in a
    long time though..

    that's probably the 3rd party software you were using or you had a hardware problem. i was running windows 7 ultimate on a 1ghz netbook with 1 gig of ram. and i was playing wow on it at work on the low settings. you

    Oh I'm talking about Windows 3.1, and Win95 to an extent.. Fairly well before Windows 7. I actually haven't had any serious problems with Windows or my PC in a long time.

    for me windows 10 has been real good. i think it spontaneously rebooted once on me and i had it running for over a month. i notice my browsers take up a ton of memory and need to be closed. i think we need to be more strict with 3rd party developers.

    Windows 10 has been fairly good for me too. I just think the UI is fugly, and I don't like that Microsoft sometimes pushes updates. Even if you disable the updates, Microsoft still sometimes has a way to push updates to Windows 10.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tue Oct 30 20:06:44 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Oct 29 2018 09:48 pm

    Windows 10 has been fairly good for me too. I just think the UI is fugly, and I don't like that Microsoft sometimes pushes updates. Even if you disable the updates, Microsoft still sometimes has a way to push updates to Windows 10.

    i replaced the start menu and everything looks like win7 to me. i would get updates but keep an eye on them.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Tue Oct 30 18:40:34 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Oct 30 2018 04:06 pm

    Windows 10 has been fairly good for me too. I just think the UI is
    fugly, and I don't like that Microsoft sometimes pushes updates. Even
    if you disable the updates, Microsoft still sometimes has a way to
    push updates to Windows 10.

    i replaced the start menu and everything looks like win7 to me. i would get updates but keep an eye on them.

    The look of the OS is not just the Start menu, but things like window borders, buttons, scrollbars, etc.. Everything looks flat and monotone in Windows 10. I replaced the Start menu too, but that doesn't fix the overall look and feel of the other parts of the OS.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wed Oct 31 14:57:00 2018
    On 10-29-18 21:48, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    Oh I'm talking about Windows 3.1, and Win95 to an extent.. Fairly well before Windows 7. I actually haven't had any serious problems with Windows or my PC in a long time.

    Yes, older versions of Windows were prone to crashing, whether Windows itself or buggy third party drivers.

    Windows 10 has been fairly good for me too. I just think the UI is
    fugly, and I don't like that Microsoft sometimes pushes updates. Even
    if you disable the updates, Microsoft still sometimes has a way to push updates to Windows 10.

    Windows 7 and 10 are pretty good. And Microsoft introduced driver signing to help try and control the proliferation of buggy drivers that were giving Windows a bad name. A BSOD on modern Windows versions is a very rare event.


    ... Computers also eliminate spare time.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Mr. Cool@VERT/DIGDIST to djatropine on Sun Nov 4 18:25:01 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: djatropine to Nightfox on Sun Oct 21 2018 05:11 pm

    A few years ago, Microsoft made an April Fool's Day joke where they announced MS-DOS Mobile, a version of MS-DOS as an OS for their mobile devices. Later, I heard someone actually made an MS-DOS Mobile app.


    I'm actually dreaming of a mobile os which is VERY similar to TEMPLE-OS
    :D

    I wonder when they will release Microsoft Bob Mobile.

    - Mr. Cool

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mr. Cool on Mon Nov 5 02:27:08 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Mr. Cool to djatropine on Sun Nov 04 2018 01:25 pm

    I wonder when they will release Microsoft Bob Mobile.

    :P As an April Fools joke a few years ago, Microsoft put out an announcement that they were making MS-DOS mobile, a DOS for mobile phones..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Mon Nov 5 03:06:21 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Mr. Cool on Sun Nov 04 2018 09:27 pm

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Mr. Cool to djatropine on Sun Nov 04 2018 01:25 pm

    I wonder when they will release Microsoft Bob Mobile.

    :P As an April Fools joke a few years ago, Microsoft put out an announcement that they were making MS-DOS mobile, a DOS for mobile phones..

    They actually released it for Windows Phone. I checked it out and wasn't fooled, but it was a decent replica for the uninitiated (sorta like the "DOS Shell" for Synchronet).

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #101:
    Alternate and loadable font support was added to Synchronet in February 2018. Norco, CA WX: 63.8°F, 57.0% humidity, 0 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Mon Nov 5 14:39:54 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Sun Nov 04 2018 10:06 pm

    :P As an April Fools joke a few years ago, Microsoft put out an
    announcement that they were making MS-DOS mobile, a DOS for mobile
    phones..

    They actually released it for Windows Phone. I checked it out and wasn't fooled, but it was a decent replica for the uninitiated (sorta like the "DOS Shell" for Synchronet).

    I saw that they actually released it. Though, it looked like it was in the form of an app rather than an actual operating system.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Mon Nov 5 21:26:18 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Mon Nov 05 2018 09:39 am

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Sun Nov 04 2018 10:06 pm

    :P As an April Fools joke a few years ago, Microsoft put out an
    announcement that they were making MS-DOS mobile, a DOS for mobile
    phones..

    They actually released it for Windows Phone. I checked it out and wasn't fooled, but it was a decent replica for the uninitiated (sorta like the "DOS Shell" for Synchronet).

    I saw that they actually released it. Though, it looked like it was in the form of an app rather than an actual operating system.

    Right. And just an "act alike" thing with no real use except I think it came with a game, iirc.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #15:
    Review on "Shark Sandwich", merely a two word review: "Shit Sandwich".
    Norco, CA WX: 70.1°F, 66.0% humidity, 6 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Dmxrob@VERT/GUARDIAN to Nightfox on Tue Nov 6 01:07:32 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Mon Nov 05 2018 09:39 am

    wasn't fooled, but it was a decent replica for the uninitiated (sorta like the "DOS Shell" for Synchronet).

    I saw that they actually released it. Though, it looked like it was in the form of an app rather than an actual operating system.

    Here you go all you DOS fans...

    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/play-over-2-400-ms-dos-games-in-your-browser- for-f/1100-6424578/
    ■dmxrob■ BBSing from St. Louis, MO since 1988

    ---
    ■ Synchronet
  • From Mr. Cool@VERT/DIGDIST to Digital Man on Sun Nov 11 16:53:16 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Sun Nov 04 2018 10:06 pm

    :P As an April Fools joke a few years ago, Microsoft put out an announcement that they were making MS-DOS mobile, a DOS for mobile phones

    They actually released it for Windows Phone. I checked it out and wasn't fooled, but it was a decent replica for the uninitiated (sorta like the "DOS Shell" for Synchronet).

    There is probably a DOSBOX release for it, which would be better if you actually wanted to run anything. I've seen videos where people have installed it, or some fork of DOSBOX to an Android phone. LGR also did a Youtube vidio where he managed to plug a USB floppy drive into a smart phone and used a PC keyboard to play games on it. Of course he did not recommend plugging things like keyboards in since you could potentially blow up your phone. There is also a video out there where someone installed Windows 3.1 using DOSBOX.

    I did also see a video a long time ago where someone demonstrated the DOS Mobile app, but I believe all it could do is launch apps, so I would agree that this would be more of a shell.

    - Mr. Cool

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mr. Cool@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Sun Nov 11 16:57:04 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to Mr. Cool on Sun Nov 04 2018 09:27 pm

    :P As an April Fools joke a few years ago, Microsoft put out an announcemen that they were making MS-DOS mobile, a DOS for mobile phones..

    I remember seeing that a few years back on Youtube. I was under the impression that there wasn't an actual app until I saw someone do a demonstration video as well.

    - Mr. Cool

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mr. Cool on Mon Nov 12 13:27:51 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Mr. Cool to Digital Man on Sun Nov 11 2018 11:53 am

    :P As an April Fools joke a few years ago, Microsoft put out an
    announcement that they were making MS-DOS mobile, a DOS for mobile
    phones

    There is probably a DOSBOX release for it, which would be better if you actually wanted to run anything. I've seen videos where people have

    The MS-DOS Mobile thing could have been more of a DOS interface that allowed running the apps on the smartphone.. I'm not sure since I didn't use it.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mr. Cool on Mon Nov 12 13:29:25 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Mr. Cool to Nightfox on Sun Nov 11 2018 11:57 am

    :P As an April Fools joke a few years ago, Microsoft put out an
    announcemen that they were making MS-DOS mobile, a DOS for mobile
    phones..

    I remember seeing that a few years back on Youtube. I was under the impression that there wasn't an actual app until I saw someone do a demonstration video as well.

    Yeah, I think the April Fool's Joke for it was that it was going to be an actual OS, but later I heard someone made a MS-DOS app.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Jagossel@VERT/OUTWEST to Nightfox on Mon Nov 12 19:02:00 2018
    Nightfox, to Mr. Cool...

    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Mr. Cool to Nightfox on Sun Nov 11 2018 11:57 am

    I remember seeing that a few years back on Youtube. I was under the impression that there wasn't an actual app until I saw someone do a demonstration video as well.

    Yeah, I think the April Fool's Joke for it was that it was going to be
    an actual OS, but later I heard someone made a MS-DOS app.

    Last I checked: lDOSBox, aDOSBkx, Magic DOSBox (tbe one I use), and DOSBox Turbo (the one I used to use, until VK3JED mentioned that Magic DOSBox can
    do serial port emulation). The variants of DOSBox I just listed is just for Android alone. I'm not sure about iOS, though.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!

    ... Sometimes, you have to roll your own implementation.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ the Outwest BBS - outwestbbs.com - Email denn@outwestbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Jagossel on Wed Nov 14 12:40:00 2018
    On 11-12-18 14:02, Jagossel wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Last I checked: lDOSBox, aDOSBkx, Magic DOSBox (tbe one I use), and
    DOSBox Turbo (the one I used to use, until VK3JED mentioned that Magic DOSBox can do serial port emulation). The variants of DOSBox I just
    listed is just for Android alone. I'm not sure about iOS, though.

    There are iOS DOSBox apps, but none can do serial emulation (thanks to Apple, I believe :( ).


    ... "Ignore Previous Cookie" - Message in fortune cookie.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Starbase@VERT/THEHELIC to Nightfox on Wed Dec 19 05:19:48 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Nightfox to John Guillory on Sat Sep 22 2018 11:34 pm

    i think they faded out of exsitance. None seen in any stores window phones

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Helicon BBS - http://heliconbbs.ddns.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Starbase on Thu Dec 20 18:23:16 2018
    Re: Re: Smart phone prices
    By: Starbase to Nightfox on Wed Dec 19 2018 12:19 am

    i think they faded out of exsitance. None seen in any stores window phones

    Please quote the part of the message you're replying to. It makes it easier to follow the conversation. I don't remember what specifically this was in reference to.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com