• Is this for real?

    From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to All on Thu May 2 14:19:02 2019
    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49.99?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Digital Man@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 2 17:03:11 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Thu May 02 2019 10:19 am

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49.99?

    I don't know, but typing on that keyboard looks like it would be an exercise in frustration.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #37:
    David St. Hubbins: We are Spinal Tap from the UK - you must be the USA!
    Norco, CA WX: 71.9°F, 55.0% humidity, 7 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From StackFault@VERT/BTTMLSS to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 3 02:19:00 2019
    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49

    Rule of thumb, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

    The asking for this machine is way too low to be legit IMO.

    Cheers!

    |15 ▀ ▐ |15StackFault |08<|03.|11.|15P|11h|03EN|11o|15M|11.|03.|08>
    |11 ▌ ▀ |11The Bottomless Abyss BBS
    |03 ▀ ▌▀ |03ssh|08.|072222 |08/ |03telnet|08.|072023 |08/ |03https
    |08 ▄■▐ |08bbs|07.|08bottomlessabyss|07.|08net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net
  • From Heliarc@VERT/HAVENS to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 3 02:38:44 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Thu May 02 2019 10:19 am

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49.99?

    How is this possible? Is everything else cheaper now?

    Heliarc

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Haven BBS. havens.synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 2 23:55:14 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Thu May 02 2019 10:19 am

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49.99?

    That looks like a pretty interesting little system for that price. And it folds into a sort of tablet that you can draw on with the stylus too.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to StackFault on Thu May 2 23:56:50 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: StackFault to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 02 2019 10:19 pm

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10
    for $49

    Rule of thumb, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

    The asking for this machine is way too low to be legit IMO.

    Its specs aren't really very high-end though. 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, and the processor is a low-end dual-core processor.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to StackFault on Fri May 3 02:48:12 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: StackFault to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 02 2019 10:19 pm

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49

    Rule of thumb, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

    The asking for this machine is way too low to be legit IMO.


    yep, and there's no real mfg name or model to check on for reviews.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Digital Man on Fri May 3 11:29:00 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 02 2019 01:03 pm

    Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Thu May 02 2019 10:19 am

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49.99?

    I don't know, but typing on that keyboard looks like it would be an exercise

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #37:
    David St. Hubbins: We are Spinal Tap from the UK - you must be the USA! Norco, CA WX: 71.9°F, 55.0% humidity, 7 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs


    I have an Asus 704 EEE in my collection, and typing on tiny keyboard can be irritating

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Fri May 3 11:34:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to StackFault on Thu May 02 2019 07:56 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: StackFault to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 02 2019 10:19 pm

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10
    for $49

    Rule of thumb, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

    The asking for this machine is way too low to be legit IMO.

    Its specs aren't really very high-end though. 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, and the processor is a low-end dual-core processor.

    Nightfox


    using lower tier hardware is about the only way to keep prices down. It's
    like after awhile the technology has paid for itself.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to StackFault on Fri May 3 10:14:00 2019
    StackFault wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49

    Rule of thumb, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

    The asking for this machine is way too low to be legit IMO.

    It was a Facebook ad, and people were complaining about not receiving
    their units. Bummer, it's a nice idea. Throw Skype on it and a
    bluetooth headset and you've got a nice little kit.



    ... How does this work, is there an orientation?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Fri May 3 10:25:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to StackFault <=-

    Its specs aren't really very high-end though. 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, and
    the processor is a low-end dual-core processor.

    I have a high-ish end laptop (i7, 8 GB RAM, SSD), but I work a lot out
    of coffee shops and remotely. I'd like something lightweight with a
    long battery life. I've been thinking about putting Ubuntu on a
    Chromebook, just enough horsepower to run a browser with a couple of
    windows open and a media player.



    ... Do you know what this dream means?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 3 13:49:02 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri May 03 2019 06:25 am

    I have a high-ish end laptop (i7, 8 GB RAM, SSD), but I work a lot out
    of coffee shops and remotely. I'd like something lightweight with a
    long battery life. I've been thinking about putting Ubuntu on a Chromebook, just enough horsepower to run a browser with a couple of windows open and a media player.

    That might work fairly well. I haven't used a Chromebook, but I know someone who has one and seems to like it. Personally I probably wouldn't want to use Chrome OS - I think it runs everything from the cloud?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Heliarc on Fri May 3 14:02:22 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Heliarc to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 02 2019 10:38 pm

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10
    for $49.99?

    How is this possible? Is everything else cheaper now?

    It's fairly low-end hardware. But still, that's fairly cheap.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Ed Vance@VERT/CAPCITY2 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 3 16:37:00 2019
    05-02-19 10:19 poindexter FORTRAN wrote to All about Is this for real?
    Howdy! Poindexter,

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    @MSGID: <5CCB2686.26709.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org> https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49.99?

    I saw this post yesterday 02MAY2019, but after reading some messages in the
    QWK Packet I got today 03MAY2019 about this Topic I started wondering if
    this was a APRIL FOOL JOKE?

    I haven't tried this yet
    -
    But I will go to the llbeay.com page and see what Flagfox shows as the
    IP Address for it, and then look to see Who owns the IP Address was when
    it was Created.

    I will report back what I find out doing that.

    ----- Later -----
    Flagfox shows the IP Address is 23.227.38.64

    ip-lookup.net says the Host is shops.myshopify.com
    and was Created on 2016-03-03

    Maybe it isn't a APRIL FOOL JOKE after all.

    You can't be too careful about what You see on the internet.

    You've been messing with computers probably long before I got the C=64 in
    1984, so what do I know?

    I use the internet to learn about things I want to buy and if I get interested enought to make a purchase - I call the Business or send an Email to them to see if they will accept a personal check for what I want to buy.

    I use some Store Cards but they aren't any good for buying stuff elsewhere.


    ... Repeal: What you do when you wrap a banana back up.
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Halcy0n@VERT/BTTMLSS to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 3 18:48:00 2019
    On 02 May 2019, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49


    That looks to be a "One Mix Yoga", one of the many Chinese Mini-Laptops
    that's been produced/copied/kickstarted in the last 1-2 years. The others
    being the GDP line of Mini-Notebooks and the Falcon line.

    Reading your other messages, that's 100% a scam if it was an ad off Facebook for $49 -- as that's absolutely a One Mix Yoga, and they sell for $459-ish,
    so yeah.... exactly 0 of those people who gave that place money are getting those, lol.

    The stats are also complete bullshit. That specific unit runs a Atom-X5 style processor, and the "SSD" is eMMC storage, and about half of that.

    There are multiple newer versions of the One Mix Yoga now, with way better specs and changes, but that wouldn't suddenly make the first version 10% of
    the original price in 1 year, so... yeah, scam :).

    Those little things ARE actually pretty cool, but they're basically oversized smartphones, with bad specs for a smartphone, that run Intel Atom Style processors so they can run Windows. Some of the newest ones are getting real close to be actual, usable little laptops, but for the price, I'd never buy them -- it's mid tier ultrabook money.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net
  • From Halcy0n@VERT/BTTMLSS to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 3 18:58:00 2019
    On 03 May 2019, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

    I have a high-ish end laptop (i7, 8 GB RAM, SSD), but I work a lot out
    of coffee shops and remotely. I'd like something lightweight with a
    long battery life. I've been thinking about putting Ubuntu on a Chromebook, just enough horsepower to run a browser with a couple of windows open and a media player.

    Chromebook's are great for that, I'm typing this on one running Ubuntu
    actually :).

    I have a very old, first gen model of a Toshiba Chromebook, so it required a lot of hacking and trickery to get to work so I have to run a full flash install of it -- but most newer Chromebooks can just natively run all Linux software, so that's also something to keep in mind.

    For just browsing, typing, and general simple computing, Chromebooks work exceptionally well. Being meant for low-power and streamlined use, their batteries last an exceptionally long time, as well.

    If you decide to take the plunge, just be sure to do a bit of research into
    the specific model you're eyeing, to see how Linux works on it (Both just natively in Chrome OS, or a full install if that's what you want. Some are basically plug/play, some are enormous pains in the ass lol).

    Also, this thing is so old, cheap, and simple that I just toss it around, and could seriously care less if I spilled anything on it or if someone swiped
    it. I'd be out like $50 at this point, hah.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Ed Vance on Fri May 3 15:53:16 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Ed Vance to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 03 2019 12:37 pm

    I saw this post yesterday 02MAY2019, but after reading some messages in the QWK Packet I got today 03MAY2019 about this Topic I started wondering if this was a APRIL FOOL JOKE?

    April Fool's jokes typically happen in April...

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Halcy0n on Fri May 3 17:25:01 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Halcy0n to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 03 2019 02:48 pm

    Those little things ARE actually pretty cool, but they're basically oversized smartphones, with bad specs for a smartphone, that run Intel Atom Style processors so they can run Windows. Some of the newest ones are getting real close to be actual, usable little laptops, but for the price, I'd never buy them -- it's mid tier ultrabook money.

    On a side note, I've been hearing Microsoft is making a version of Windows 10 for ARM processors, and it will include a 32-bit x86 emulator so that it can run traditional Windows x86 desktop software on ARM. From what I've read, I think there are ARM+Win10 devices on the market already.
    I've also heard rumors that Apple may end up switching to ARM processors in their Mac line..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 3 22:17:05 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to StackFault on Fri May 03 2019 06:14 am

    StackFault wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49

    Rule of thumb, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

    The asking for this machine is way too low to be legit IMO.

    It was a Facebook ad, and people were complaining about not receiving
    their units. Bummer, it's a nice idea. Throw Skype on it and a
    bluetooth headset and you've got a nice little kit.



    that reminds me of when i ordered a cellphone from wish and just got a usb cable.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Moondog on Fri May 3 22:07:49 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Digital Man on Fri May 03 2019 07:29 am

    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 02 2019 01:03 pm

    Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Thu May 02 2019 10:19 am

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop

    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49.99?

    I don't know, but typing on that keyboard looks like it would be an exercise

    I have an Asus 704 EEE in my collection, and typing on tiny keyboard can be irritating

    ... and the keyboard on that referenced system looked "askew" from normal.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #43:
    Synchronet added Baja/PCMS support with v2.00a (1994).
    Norco, CA WX: 72.1°F, 51.0% humidity, 11 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Fri May 3 22:10:46 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 03 2019 09:49 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri May 03 2019 06:25 am

    I have a high-ish end laptop (i7, 8 GB RAM, SSD), but I work a lot out of coffee shops and remotely. I'd like something lightweight with a long battery life. I've been thinking about putting Ubuntu on a Chromebook, just enough horsepower to run a browser with a couple of windows open and a media player.

    That might work fairly well. I haven't used a Chromebook, but I know someone who has one and seems to like it. Personally I probably wouldn't want to use Chrome OS - I think it runs everything from the cloud?

    Not exactly. The "OS" is Linux plus a very basic window manager and Chrome (the browser) and now you can add apps, you can get Microsoft Office apps from the Google Play store and even Android apps (if you need/want those). And... there's a way to run containerized Linux apps, but I never got that to work on my Chromebook.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #4:
    ATASCII = ATARI Standard Code for Information Interchange
    Norco, CA WX: 72.1°F, 51.0% humidity, 11 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Retro Guy@VERT/RETROBBS to Halcy0n on Sat May 4 02:08:03 2019
    Halcy0n wrote:

    On 03 May 2019, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

    I have a high-ish end laptop (i7, 8 GB RAM, SSD), but I work a lot out of coffee shops and remotely. I'd like something lightweight with a
    long battery life. I've been thinking about putting Ubuntu on a Chromebook, just enough horsepower to run a browser with a couple of windows open and a media player.

    Chromebook's are great for that, I'm typing this on one running Ubuntu actually :).

    I do the same. A Chromebook is inexpensive and makes a great handy Ubuntu laptop that I use when visiting work sites. The battery life is very good
    as long as I remember to switch out of Ubuntu when done or it won't go to sleep.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ RetroBBS - bbs.rocksolidbbs.com
  • From Louisrlinux@VERT/LDRBBS to Nightfox on Fri May 3 22:53:59 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 03 2019 09:49 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri May 03 2019 06:25 am

    I have a high-ish end laptop (i7, 8 GB RAM, SSD), but I work a lot out of coffee shops and remotely. I'd like something lightweight with a long battery life. I've been thinking about putting Ubuntu on a Chromebook, just enough horsepower to run a browser with a couple of windows open and a media player.

    That might work fairly well. I haven't used a Chromebook, but I know someon who has one and seems to like it. Personally I probably wouldn't want to us Chrome OS - I think it runs everything from the cloud?

    Nightfox

    I have an Asus Chromebook and use it regularly. It runs Android apps and has local storage through an SD card so you can do many things offline.

    If you are just going to do web browsing and media it is more than enouogh.

    For myself, I use a VPN to connect to my Nextcloud server wich also uses a local OnlyOffice server for an in browser office suite. With an Android telnet app I can even check on the BBS.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ LDR BBS
  • From Datalus@VERT/DATALUS to Nightfox on Sat May 4 15:54:00 2019
    On 02 May 2019, Nightfox said the following...
    Re: Is this for real?
    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 fo $49.99?

    Hmm sounds to good to be true! If someone buys it give us a review!
    Hell if they made a ipad gen6 bbs software id run it from that has more than the 49.95 pocket computer.
    Datalus
    Deep Space Gateway BBS

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Deep Space Gateway Crystal River Florida
  • From Ed Vance@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Nightfox on Sat May 4 13:23:00 2019
    05-03-19 11:53 Nightfox wrote to Ed Vance about Re: Is this for real?
    Howdy! Nightfox,

    @VIA: VERT/DIGDIST
    @MSGID: <5CCC8E1C.39534.dove_dove-gen@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5CCC6E73.33413.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Ed Vance to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 03 2019 12:37 pm

    I saw this post yesterday 02MAY2019, but after reading some messages in the QWK Packet I got today 03MAY2019 about this Topic I started wondering if this was a APRIL FOOL JOKE?

    April Fool's jokes typically happen in April...

    Yes, but trixters do things on April First and all of the other days of
    the Year, Leap Day included every four Years when one is added.

    73 de Ed W9ODR . .


    ... Have you checked your smoke detector batteries & Fire Ext, LATELY?!
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Heliarc@VERT/HAVENS to Nightfox on Sat May 4 12:31:31 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Ed Vance on Fri May 03 2019 11:53 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Ed Vance to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 03 2019 12:37 pm

    I saw this post yesterday 02MAY2019, but after reading some messages
    in the QWK Packet I got today 03MAY2019 about this Topic I started
    wondering if this was a APRIL FOOL JOKE?

    April Fool's jokes typically happen in April...

    Nightfox


    It's not April? ;-)

    Heliarc

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Haven BBS. havens.synchro.net
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to All on Sat May 4 21:10:54 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Thu May 02 2019 10:19:02

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop
    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10 for $49.99?

    Wow.... indeed..is this real? m3 8100, 256GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, 1920x1080 screen, win10 license... how?
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Sat May 4 19:10:19 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hawkeye to All on Sat May 04 2019 05:10 pm

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop
    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10
    for $49.99?

    Wow.... indeed..is this real? m3 8100, 256GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, 1920x1080 screen, win10 license... how?

    It's fairly low-end hardware..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MATTHEW MUNSON@VERT/IUTOPIA to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sat May 4 11:31:00 2019
    I have a high-ish end laptop (i7, 8 GB RAM, SSD), but I work a lot out
    of coffee shops and remotely. I'd like something lightweight with a
    long battery life. I've been thinking about putting Ubuntu on a
    Chromebook, just enough horsepower to run a browser with a couple of
    windows open and a media player.
    I have a laptop from 2011 that is gradually getting very outdated. Im
    pondering going to a tablet since laptops are more of a hastle.


    ---
    ■ wcQWK 7.0 ≈ Inland Utopia * utopiabbs.zapto.org:2323
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Sat May 4 10:31:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    That might work fairly well. I haven't used a Chromebook, but I know someone who has one and seems to like it. Personally I probably
    wouldn't want to use Chrome OS - I think it runs everything from the cloud?

    It's pretty much like booting directly into the Chrome browser.



    ... Have you ever asked a question you weren't supposed to ask?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Retro Guy on Sat May 4 10:49:00 2019
    Retro Guy wrote to Halcy0n <=-

    I do the same. A Chromebook is inexpensive and makes a great handy
    Ubuntu laptop that I use when visiting work sites. The battery life is very good as long as I remember to switch out of Ubuntu when done or it won't go to sleep.


    The Pinebook looks interesting - reminiscent of a chromebook, but
    running an ARM processor.



    ... This is it -- the center of the maze...
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sun May 5 13:13:00 2019
    MATTHEW MUNSON wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    I have a laptop from 2011 that is gradually getting very outdated. Im pondering going to a tablet since laptops are more of a hastle.

    What kind of laptop? My T410 dates back to 2010 and it's my daily
    driver. What helped was that it was maxxed out from day 1 with 8 GB of
    RAM and a core i7. Adding an SSD to it gave it a new breath of life,
    and they're getting relatively inexpensive.

    It runs Linux Mint and Windows 10 nicely now.



    ... What do you think management's real interests are?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Sun May 5 15:42:00 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Hawkeye on Sat May 04 2019 03:10 pm

    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hawkeye to All on Sat May 04 2019 05:10 pm

    https://www.llbeay.com/products/mini-pocket-laptop
    A 7 inch laptop with 8 GB RAM, a solid state drive, and Windows 10
    for $49.99?

    Wow.... indeed..is this real? m3 8100, 256GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, 1920x1080 screen, win10 license... how?

    It's fairly low-end hardware..

    Nightfox


    Speaking of lower tier "paid for" technologies, I saw an RPi type board called
    Atomic Pi selling for $35. It's an Intel Atom based single board with 2GB DDR3L. That should be enough to run Win10 and a couple of apps.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Sun May 5 16:15:06 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sun May 05 2019 11:42 am

    Wow.... indeed..is this real? m3 8100, 256GB SSD, 8 GB RAM,
    1920x1080 screen, win10 license... how?


    I seem to recall Microsoft touting cheap Windows 10 licenses for just such a beast. Windoes Core is a server build meant for low-end boxes, maybe it might be a good fit?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Nightfox on Sun May 5 21:12:34 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Hawkeye on Sat May 04 2019 15:10:19

    Wow.... indeed..is this real? m3 8100, 256GB SSD, 8 GB RAM,
    1920x1080 screen, win10 license... how?
    It's fairly low-end hardware..

    Low CPU indeed but 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, a 1920x1080 and a Win10 license are together more than 50 bucks, even in mass production...
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Digital Man@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 5 17:38:23 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Retro Guy on Sat May 04 2019 06:49 am

    The Pinebook looks interesting - reminiscent of a chromebook, but
    running an ARM processor.

    Many Chromebooks run on ARM processors too. <shrug>

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #53:
    REP = QWK Reply
    Norco, CA WX: 71.5°F, 52.0% humidity, 5 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Moondog on Sun May 5 17:40:22 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sun May 05 2019 11:42 am

    Speaking of lower tier "paid for" technologies, I saw an RPi type board called
    Atomic Pi selling for $35. It's an Intel Atom based single board with 2GB DDR3L. That should be enough to run Win10 and a couple of apps.

    I booted Windows on my rPi3... once. It was a dreadfully slow experience.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #34:
    HTTP = Hypertext Transfer Protocol
    Norco, CA WX: 72.0°F, 48.0% humidity, 9 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Digital Man on Sun May 5 19:44:11 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 05 2019 01:38 pm

    The Pinebook looks interesting - reminiscent of a chromebook, but
    running an ARM processor.

    Many Chromebooks run on ARM processors too. <shrug>

    Yeah, that wasn't clear. It's an ARM processor ultrabook that runs Linux natively instead of Chrome OS.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Digital Man@VERT to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 5 22:26:33 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Digital Man on Sun May 05 2019 03:44 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 05 2019 01:38 pm

    The Pinebook looks interesting - reminiscent of a chromebook, but
    running an ARM processor.

    Many Chromebooks run on ARM processors too. <shrug>

    Yeah, that wasn't clear. It's an ARM processor ultrabook that runs Linux natively instead of Chrome OS.

    Ah, gotcha.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #5:
    Nigel Tufnel: Authorities said... best leave it... unsolved.
    Norco, CA WX: 61.8°F, 66.0% humidity, 19 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Dan Clough@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 5 23:48:00 2019
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON <=-

    I have a laptop from 2011 that is gradually getting very outdated. Im pondering going to a tablet since laptops are more of a hastle.

    What kind of laptop? My T410 dates back to 2010 and it's my daily
    driver. What helped was that it was maxxed out from day 1 with 8
    GB of RAM and a core i7. Adding an SSD to it gave it a new breath
    of life, and they're getting relatively inexpensive.

    My everyday is a Lenovo T510, hard to remember how old it is but
    around 2011 or so. Best laptop I've ever had and I love it. Same
    specs as you mention, and same SSD upgrade. Every now and then I
    think I might update to something newer, but don't see anything that
    I'd like better (even new Lenovos). I especially like having a DVD
    drive built in, and you won't find that any more. I guess I'll keep
    with it until there's no choice but to replace it.

    It runs Linux Mint and Windows 10 nicely now.

    Slackware and (rarely) Win7 for me.


    ... Facts cannot prevail against faith, or adamant folly.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Mon May 6 00:36:52 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hawkeye to Nightfox on Sun May 05 2019 05:12 pm

    Wow.... indeed..is this real? m3 8100, 256GB SSD, 8 GB RAM,
    1920x1080 screen, win10 license... how?

    It's fairly low-end hardware..

    Low CPU indeed but 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, a 1920x1080 and a Win10 license are together more than 50 bucks, even in mass production...

    True.. It still seems like a fairly good deal.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Heliarc@VERT/HAVENS to Digital Man on Mon May 6 01:05:11 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 05 2019 01:38 pm


    The Pinebook looks interesting - reminiscent of a chromebook, but
    running an ARM processor.

    I checked this out it's 99 bucks but costs 33 bucks to ship then here's the othe considerations. If they ever have them in stock again.

    The BTO process has been abolished but we still continue fulfill the BTO queue based on first come first served basis. The upcoming batch of Pinebook will use pre-order method and inform by email thru newsletter subscription list. Please subscribe using this subscription link.
    For the BTO process, a special coupon code is required to buy Pinebook during checkout. Our sales team will email the special coupon to you when it is your turn in the queue.
    You can only buy one Pinebook and Pinebook accessories per coupon under PINEBOOK category.
    During checkout, you MUST use back the same email address you registered in BTO.
    Due to Lithium-ion battery in Pinebook, the shipment of Pinebook orders will be handled differently from other Pine64 products, that?s the reason we didn?t allow to combined Pinebook order with other Pine64 products. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
    Small numbers (1-3) of stuck or dead pixels are a characteristic of LCD screens. These are normal and should not be considered a defect.
    When fulfilling the purchase, please bear in mind that we are offering the Pinebook at this price as a community service to PINE64, Linux and BSD communities. We make no profit from selling these units. If you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel, will prompt you to file a PayPal dispute then please do not purchase the Pinebook. Thank you.

    Heliarc

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Haven BBS. havens.synchro.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Digital Man on Mon May 6 01:53:00 2019
    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to Moondog on Sun May 05 2019 01:40 pm

    Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sun May 05 2019 11:42 am

    Speaking of lower tier "paid for" technologies, I saw an RPi type board called
    Atomic Pi selling for $35. It's an Intel Atom based single board with 2 DDR3L. That should be enough to run Win10 and a couple of apps.

    I booted Windows on my rPi3... once. It was a dreadfully slow experience.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #34:
    HTTP = Hypertext Transfer Protocol
    Norco, CA WX: 72.0°F, 48.0% humidity, 9 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs


    I wouldn't even bother running windows on a Pi. Too much overhead. However this Atom based single board appears to perform like a dual core pc from
    about 10 years ago, and I've seen videos on Youtube where they have run older games from that period on it and achieved at least 30fps. I imagine it's a better performer with Android x86 or linux.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From MATTHEW MUNSON@VERT/IUTOPIA to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun May 5 15:18:00 2019
    On 5/5/2019 9:13 AM, POINDEXTER FORTRAN wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON:

    MATTHEW MUNSON wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    I have a laptop from 2011 that is gradually getting very outdated. Im pondering going to a tablet since laptops are more of a hastle.

    What kind of laptop? My T410 dates back to 2010 and it's my daily
    driver. What helped was that it was maxxed out from day 1 with 8 GB of
    RAM and a core i7. Adding an SSD to it gave it a new breath of life,
    and they're getting relatively inexpensive.

    Samsung laptop i5-2430 8gb ram. I might buy a 512gb ssd and maybe it might work
    wonders.

    ---
    ■ wcQWK 7.0 ≈ Inland Utopia * utopiabbs.zapto.org:2323
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dan Clough on Mon May 6 10:49:00 2019
    Dan Clough wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    My everyday is a Lenovo T510, hard to remember how old it is but
    around 2011 or so. Best laptop I've ever had and I love it.

    Preach. Best keyboard on a laptop, ever. I use my T410 and feel like
    I'm working on a desktop wherever I am.

    Slackware and (rarely) Win7 for me.

    Rumor has it that the Windows 10 upgrade will work on Windows 7 keys
    until Windows 7 EOL.



    ... Where are we? When are we? Is this now?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 7 23:23:28 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dan Clough on Mon May 06 2019 06:49 am

    Rumor has it that the Windows 10 upgrade will work on Windows 7 keys
    until Windows 7 EOL.

    I remember the Windows 10 upgrade (from Windows 7, 8, and 8.1) being free for a limited time a few years ago, and then Microsoft started charging for the Windows 10 upgrade. I imagine you could still indeed buy a Windows 10 upgrade and upgrade from Windows 7.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 8 02:30:16 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dan Clough on Mon May 06 2019 06:49 am

    Rumor has it that the Windows 10 upgrade will work on Windows 7 keys
    until Windows 7 EOL.

    rumor has it that I might just go full linux rather than goto windows 10
    wait that's not a rumor, I like LXDE and ubuntu mate.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Denn on Wed May 8 04:48:31 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 07 2019 10:30 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dan Clough on Mon May 06 2019 06:49 am

    Rumor has it that the Windows 10 upgrade will work on Windows 7 keys until Windows 7 EOL.

    rumor has it that I might just go full linux rather than goto windows 10 wait that's not a rumor, I like LXDE and ubuntu mate.



    windows 10 is decent.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dan Clough@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 8 01:56:00 2019
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    My everyday is a Lenovo T510, hard to remember how old it is but
    around 2011 or so. Best laptop I've ever had and I love it.

    Preach. Best keyboard on a laptop, ever. I use my T410 and feel
    like I'm working on a desktop wherever I am.

    Slackware and (rarely) Win7 for me.

    Rumor has it that the Windows 10 upgrade will work on Windows 7
    keys until Windows 7 EOL.

    I hardly ever use Windows any more, except for some work stuff on
    another laptop running Win7. Some colleagues use Win10 and from
    what I can tell it's a step backwards. I'll stay with the 7.

    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51

    There's a v0.52 out now... :)



    ... Daddy, what does "now formatting drive C:" mean?
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to MATTHEW MUNSON on Wed May 8 17:15:32 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun May 05 2019 11:18:00

    Samsung laptop i5-2430 8gb ram. I might buy a 512gb ssd and maybe it might work wonders.

    I upgrade my wifes dual core with 4 GB with an SSD and it responds fast now. It's no monster but the normal tasks run smooth and fine.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Hustler@VERT/HAVENS to Denn on Wed May 8 16:46:06 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 07 2019 10:30 pm

    Rumor has it that the Windows 10 upgrade will work on Windows 7 keys
    until Windows 7 EOL.

    rumor has it that I might just go full linux rather than goto windows 10 wait that's not a rumor, I like LXDE and ubuntu mate.

    That's what I did. I switched to Lubuntu and think it's great. I'm no longer a prisoner of the Microsoft Corperation. There's no way I am paying rental fees for a computer I own.

    Hustler

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Haven BBS. havens.synchro.net
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Hustler on Thu May 9 02:45:36 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Denn on Wed May 08 2019 12:46 pm

    That's what I did. I switched to Lubuntu and think it's great. I'm no longer a prisoner of the Microsoft Corperation. There's no way I am paying rental fees for a computer I own.

    LXDE is a nice lightwieght linux that I just only what I want on.
    I run my VPS on LXDE and my pi runs on raspian.
    I agree I don't want to pay anymore ransome to Microsoft.
    I still have the windows 10 ISO that I downloaded and burned to disc when it was free, I installed win 10 on my desktop and hated it so I went back to win7

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Hustler on Thu May 9 04:49:44 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Denn on Wed May 08 2019 12:46 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 07 2019 10:30 pm

    Rumor has it that the Windows 10 upgrade will work on Windows 7 keys
    until Windows 7 EOL.

    rumor has it that I might just go full linux rather than goto windows 10 wait that's not a rumor, I like LXDE and ubuntu mate.

    That's what I did. I switched to Lubuntu and think it's great. I'm no longer a prisoner of the Microsoft Corperation. There's no way I am paying rental fees for a computer I own.



    i'm not paying rental fees and i have several computers running win10
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Wed May 8 10:36:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I remember the Windows 10 upgrade (from Windows 7, 8, and 8.1) being
    free for a limited time a few years ago, and then Microsoft started charging for the Windows 10 upgrade. I imagine you could still indeed
    buy a Windows 10 upgrade and upgrade from Windows 7.

    I'll have to try an in place upgrade of my Windows 7 VM and see what
    happens.

    I got lucky, my employer was a big Microsoft customer and we got
    invited to their campus in Mountain View during the Windows 8 rollout.
    We were given passes into the employee store, and they had Windows 8.1
    licenses for $20, a year of Office365 for $35, and similar discounts
    on Xbox subscriptions and MS Schwag.

    Someone stole my Microsoft mug at work within a month. I replaced it
    with an Ubuntu mug, which remained the whole time I was there.



    ... Can you hear me?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Denn on Wed May 8 10:38:00 2019
    Denn wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    rumor has it that I might just go full linux rather than goto windows
    10 wait that's not a rumor, I like LXDE and ubuntu mate.

    I hear you - I started running Lubuntu (Ubuntu + LXDE + lightweight
    apps) when I ran a single core laptop with 2 gigs of RAM and still run
    it on my current i7.

    LXDE is just enough eye candy for me. I tried the new Lubuntu with
    their new WM briefly, it seemed buggy. I should try it again as it has
    just been released.



    ... Do you know where you are?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dan Clough on Wed May 8 10:39:00 2019
    Dan Clough wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I hardly ever use Windows any more, except for some work stuff on
    another laptop running Win7. Some colleagues use Win10 and from
    what I can tell it's a step backwards. I'll stay with the 7.

    I feel about Windows 7 the way I felt about Windows 95 when Windows 98
    came out - less clutter, and it just had what I needed on it.

    Windows 7 just looks and feels cleaner.



    ... Would you like to wake up from this dream?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to MRO on Thu May 9 13:39:15 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Hustler on Thu May 09 2019 12:49 am

    i'm not paying rental fees and i have several computers running win10

    My point is that support for windows 7 is ending and I hate window's 10
    Linux and wine for linux has come a long way recently and I can run most of my windows programs in wine or there are alternatetive programs for linux that I use.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 9 13:59:22 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed May 08 2019 06:36 am

    I got lucky, my employer was a big Microsoft customer and we got
    invited to their campus in Mountain View during the Windows 8 rollout.
    We were given passes into the employee store, and they had Windows 8.1 licenses for $20, a year of Office365 for $35, and similar discounts
    on Xbox subscriptions and MS Schwag.

    That's pretty cool. I know some companies have a discount program with Microsoft too.. The company I work for allows employees to buy Microsoft Office for $10 or something. The latest they've offered is Microsoft Office 2019. They haven't offered 365 yet, but they might in the future.

    A long time ago, when I was in college, I went to a Microsoft .NET release event in my area with a few other students (this was around 2001 or 2002, when Microsoft .NET was new). They gave away a free copy of the full Visual Studio .NET and Windows XP to everyone there, which was cool. They were full legit copies of the software, and I had used that copy of Windows XP for a long time. They also had a drawing for some items (including an X-Box), but I didn't win anything.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hustler on Thu May 9 14:02:02 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Denn on Wed May 08 2019 12:46 pm

    That's what I did. I switched to Lubuntu and think it's great. I'm no longer a prisoner of the Microsoft Corperation. There's no way I am paying rental fees for a computer I own.

    What are these rental fees you speak of?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu May 9 14:02:57 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Hustler on Thu May 09 2019 12:49 am

    That's what I did. I switched to Lubuntu and think it's great. I'm no
    longer a prisoner of the Microsoft Corperation. There's no way I am
    paying rental fees for a computer I own.

    i'm not paying rental fees and i have several computers running win10

    Not yet.. But there have been rumors/worries that Microsoft might go to a yearly fee model for customers to continue using Windows.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 9 14:07:41 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dan Clough on Wed May 08 2019 06:39 am

    I feel about Windows 7 the way I felt about Windows 95 when Windows 98 came out - less clutter, and it just had what I needed on it.

    Windows 7 just looks and feels cleaner.

    Yeah, I think the industry in general has gone to making things look flat and mono-tone. Microsoft, Apple, and Google have all made their operating systems (Windows, OS X, iOS, and Android) look this way. It's like they all got together and agreed on it. It's a little weird.. But I think the various operating systems looked better when they were making the GUIs look more 3D and colorful. I liked Windows 7's Aero compared to the look of Windows 8-10, although often I disabled Aero so it would look more like classic Windows (which I also prefer to the look of Windows 8-10). The GUI of Mac OS X Tiger (and to an extent, Leopard) also had more depth and color. From what I remember, iOS and Android also used to be more colorful and had more depth to their UI than they do in more recent versions. For Android, I think Google calls the newer UI "Material Design", which they introduced in Android 5?

    With recent GUIs in the operating systems today, sometimes it's hard to even tell when a button is a button because it's just a plain rectangle.. I liked them better when they had more depth and color.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Denn on Thu May 9 14:09:50 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to MRO on Thu May 09 2019 09:39 am

    My point is that support for windows 7 is ending and I hate window's 10

    What specifically do you hate about Windows 10? I liked the GUI of Windows 7 better, but overall Windows 10 seems decent.

    Linux and wine for linux has come a long way recently and I can run most of my windows programs in wine or there are alternatetive programs for linux that I use.

    I've considered switching to Linux, and I know Wine has come a long way. It just still seems like a little more of a hassle to get Windows software running in that environment. Also I like playing games on my PC sometimes, and I think most games still don't run very well in Wine.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Thu May 9 18:37:34 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 09 2019 09:59 am

    That's pretty cool. I know some companies have a discount program with Microsoft too.. The company I work for allows employees to buy Microsoft Office for $10 or something.

    That's their home use program. I was pissed that I didn't add that into the Microsoft account when I renegotiated the contract, I'd have liked to have gotten copies of 2016. I'm on 2013 now.

    If I get some more contracting income, I'll buy Office365 and write off the $100/year for a family subscription. I just hate not owning software, though.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 9 18:57:42 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Thu May 09 2019 02:37 pm

    If I get some more contracting income, I'll buy Office365 and write off the $100/year for a family subscription. I just hate not owning software, though.

    I don't like not owning software either.. My work recently has started trying out Office 365, and I went ahead and upgraded my work machine - It seems to have installed local copies of all the Office apps, so I'm not sure there's a whole lot of difference in how it runs, at least. With Office 365, if you don't continue paying the yearly(?) fee, I suppose the Office apps will start complaining that your license is no longer valid?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Thu May 9 22:15:49 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 09 2019 02:57 pm

    if you don't continue paying the yearly(?) fee, I suppose the
    Office apps will start complaining that your license is no longer valid?

    That's correct. Outlook used to be the killer app keeping me in Office, now it's OneNote - and OneNote is available as a standalone.

    You could do much worse than OneNote and Libreoffice.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Denn on Fri May 10 02:23:25 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to MRO on Thu May 09 2019 09:39 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Hustler on Thu May 09 2019 12:49 am

    i'm not paying rental fees and i have several computers running win10

    My point is that support for windows 7 is ending and I hate window's 10
    Linux and wine for linux has come a long way recently and I can run most of my windows programs in wine or there are alternatetive programs for linux that I use.



    i use some start menu shell, the one that you can get with nnite.
    windows 10 is very similar to win7. i really like windows 10.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri May 10 02:24:16 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu May 09 2019 10:02 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Hustler on Thu May 09 2019 12:49 am

    That's what I did. I switched to Lubuntu and think it's great. I'm no
    longer a prisoner of the Microsoft Corperation. There's no way I am
    paying rental fees for a computer I own.

    i'm not paying rental fees and i have several computers running win10

    Not yet.. But there have been rumors/worries that Microsoft might go to a yearly fee model for customers to continue using Windows.


    there's been rumors about that for several years. i doubt they would do that. ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to MRO on Fri May 10 04:29:48 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Denn on Thu May 09 2019 10:23 pm

    i use some start menu shell, the one that you can get with nnite.
    windows 10 is very similar to win7. i really like windows 10.

    I also use ninite for several useful programs but for windows 7
    I gave windows 10 2 trials but I just don't care for it, I love to tinker and linux is a good tinker OS.
    I will stick with win7 untill it just won't run anymore.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to MRO on Fri May 10 04:32:09 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu May 09 2019 10:24 pm

    i'm not paying rental fees and i have several computers running
    win10

    Not yet.. But there have been rumors/worries that Microsoft might go
    to a yearly fee model for customers to continue using Windows.


    there's been rumors about that for several years. i doubt they would do that.

    actually that is thier plan for their business versions.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Hustler@VERT/HAVENS to Nightfox on Fri May 10 12:35:39 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Hustler on Thu May 09 2019 10:02 am

    no longer a prisoner of the Microsoft Corperation. There's no way I
    am paying rental fees for a computer I own.

    What are these rental fees you speak of?

    Microsoft will eventually have a "fee for service" on all there products. I consider that a rental fee.

    Hustler

    ... Whatever it is, it won't work.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Haven BBS. havens.synchro.net
  • From Hustler@VERT/HAVENS to Nightfox on Fri May 10 12:46:38 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 09 2019 10:07 am

    With recent GUIs in the operating systems today, sometimes it's hard to even tell when a button is a button because it's just a plain rectangle.. I liked them better when they had more depth and color.


    Microsoft wants to make a "One size fits all" OS that works with all devices. That's why Windows 10 is so "flat". I personally don't think the idea will work. I don't want my phone to look like my computer. Apparently people get confused with the variety of Operating systems out there. Maybe it's just another way to save money for the company?

    Hustler

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Haven BBS. havens.synchro.net
  • From dmxrob@VERT/STLWEST to Hustler on Fri May 10 13:36:26 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Nightfox on Fri May 10 2019 08:35 am

    Microsoft will eventually have a "fee for service" on all there products. I consider that a rental fee.

    It's called Office365

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Gateway to the West [ bbs.homelabber.net ]
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 10 13:34:39 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Thu May 09 2019 06:15 pm

    if you don't continue paying the yearly(?) fee, I suppose the
    Office apps will start complaining that your license is no longer
    valid?

    That's correct. Outlook used to be the killer app keeping me in Office, now it's OneNote - and OneNote is available as a standalone.

    At home, I couldn't really care less about Outlook (I don't use it as my personal email client), but my work uses Outlook. I do like OneNote, though I've only been using OneNote at work for work-related notes. At home, the parts of Office I use most are Word and Excel.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Fri May 10 13:35:40 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu May 09 2019 10:24 pm

    Not yet.. But there have been rumors/worries that Microsoft might go
    to a yearly fee model for customers to continue using Windows.

    there's been rumors about that for several years. i doubt they would do that. ---

    Who knows.. It seems more and more software companies are doing that though. Even Microsoft is doing that with Office 365.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hustler on Fri May 10 13:36:57 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Nightfox on Fri May 10 2019 08:35 am

    Microsoft will eventually have a "fee for service" on all there products. I consider that a rental fee.

    Perhaps. I've heard rumors about that too for Windows. If that happens, perhaps I'll replace Windows with Linux on my PC at home. Linux Mint is my current favorite Linux distro.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hustler on Fri May 10 13:38:34 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Nightfox on Fri May 10 2019 08:46 am

    Microsoft wants to make a "One size fits all" OS that works with all devices. That's why Windows 10 is so "flat". I personally don't think the idea will work. I don't want my phone to look like my computer. Apparently people get confused with the variety of Operating systems out there. Maybe it's just another way to save money for the company?

    Microsoft already tried that with Windows 8, which was fairly unpopular for having its new tiled interface the default and lack of a Start button. Thankfully in Windows 10 they put the Start button back and made the desktop interface default again. They updated some of the icons to have a little more depth again, but IMO it still looks a little fugly overall with the flat mono-tone look.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Fri May 10 13:44:59 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Denn on Thu May 09 2019 10:23 pm

    i use some start menu shell, the one that you can get with nnite.
    windows 10 is very similar to win7. i really like windows 10.

    I also use a Start menu replacement, called Classic Shell. Lately I've also been using Stardock's WindowBlinds at home to skin the UI so it looks nicer.


    (WindowBlinds is part of their Object Desktop suite - OS/2 users may remember Object Desktop from Stardock's OS/2 days).

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to dmxrob on Fri May 10 13:47:34 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: dmxrob to Hustler on Fri May 10 2019 09:36 am

    Microsoft will eventually have a "fee for service" on all there
    products. I consider that a rental fee.

    It's called Office365

    Does Windows fall under Office 365 though?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Fri May 10 14:55:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu May 09 2019 10:02 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Hustler on Thu May 09 2019 12:49 am

    That's what I did. I switched to Lubuntu and think it's great. I'm no
    longer a prisoner of the Microsoft Corperation. There's no way I am
    paying rental fees for a computer I own.

    i'm not paying rental fees and i have several computers running win10

    Not yet.. But there have been rumors/worries that Microsoft might go to a yearly fee model for customers to continue using Windows.

    Nightfox


    A subscription fee, such as the way they do with Office 365? From a services point of view, I doubt the OS would go that way, however they could easily create a stripped down OS and charge you for all the productivity stuff
    through their web store. When I purchased Win 8, it didn't have media player software. I couldn't watch DVD's without either downloading their media
    player pack or finding something else such as VLC.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Fri May 10 14:57:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 09 2019 10:07 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dan Clough on Wed May 08 2019 06:39 am

    I feel about Windows 7 the way I felt about Windows 95 when Windows 98 came out - less clutter, and it just had what I needed on it.

    Windows 7 just looks and feels cleaner.

    Yeah, I think the industry in general has gone to making things look flat an mono-tone. Microsoft, Apple, and Google have all made their operating syste (Windows, OS X, iOS, and Android) look this way. It's like they all got together and agreed on it. It's a little weird.. But I think the various operating systems looked better when they were making the GUIs look more 3D colorful. I liked Windows 7's Aero compared to the look of Windows 8-10, although often I disabled Aero so it would look more like classic Windows (which I also prefer to the look of Windows 8-10). The GUI of Mac OS X Tige (and to an extent, Leopard) also had more depth and color. From what I remember, iOS and Android also used to be more colorful and had more depth t their UI than they do in more recent versions. For Android, I think Google calls the newer UI "Material Design", which they introduced in Android 5?

    With recent GUIs in the operating systems today, sometimes it's hard to even tell when a button is a button because it's just a plain rectangle.. I like them better when they had more depth and color.

    Nightfox


    After any period of time, any distinctive display layout is going to look dated.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Fri May 10 17:53:49 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri May 10 2019 10:55 am

    A subscription fee, such as the way they do with Office 365? From a services point of view, I doubt the OS would go that way, however they could easily create a stripped down OS and charge you for all the productivity stuff through their web store. When I purchased Win 8, it didn't have media player software. I couldn't watch DVD's without either downloading their media player pack or finding something else such as VLC.

    I remember reading somewhere that Microsoft has removed DVD playback software from Windows anyway (perhaps in Windows 10?). I haven't used Windows Media Player in a long time, and I never really used it much anyway. I've always used other media player software for music & movies, such as WinAmp, VLC, etc.. And I've bought other software such as WinDVD etc. to watch DVDs and blu-rays on my PC. I've never really given much thought to what Windows comes with for that stuff.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Fri May 10 17:56:14 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri May 10 2019 10:57 am

    Yeah, I think the industry in general has gone to making things look
    flat an mono-tone. Microsoft, Apple, and Google have all made their

    After any period of time, any distinctive display layout is going to look dated.

    Dated? This flat interface style hasn't even been around for a long time.. It seemed to start around 2012 (with Windows 8 and versions of OS X, iOS, Android, etc. coming out around then) which I guess was already about 7 years ago now.. But I thought it looked weird even then when it was the new UI for those operating systems.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Minex@VERT/TDOD to Nightfox on Fri May 10 14:06:52 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Denn on Thu May 09 2019 10:09 am

    I've considered switching to Linux, and I know Wine has come a long way. It just still seems like a little more of a hassle to get Windows software running in that environment. Also I like playing games on my PC sometimes, and I think most games still don't run very well in Wine.

    I purchased a Thinkpad many years ago for the sole purpose of installing Linux on it. The first thing I did when I got it was to install Ubuntu. The install went surpringly well. I'm at the point where I don't even think about the OS anymore. I just use the laptop as my main system, even for gaming. This wasn't the case in early 2000 where nothing worked. I spent more time in the terminal back then trying to get apps to work than using the app.

    Also, Steam and many of the games run really well on Ubuntu for those gamers, though some games aren't release for Linux -- ESP the AAA games.

    The Dawn of Demise BBS (tdod.org)

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Dawn of Demise (tdod.org:5000)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Minex on Fri May 10 19:14:25 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Minex to Nightfox on Fri May 10 2019 10:06 am

    Also, Steam and many of the games run really well on Ubuntu for those gamers, though some games aren't release for Linux -- ESP the AAA games.

    I've heard of Steam doing some work on that, mainly for their SteamBox game console. Does it use Wine or similar Windows compatibility layer for Windows games to work on Linux? And I'm wondering if resource-heavy Windows games can run on Linux that way? For instance, games like Civilization 5, 3D shoorters (in general), etc.?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Denn on Sat May 11 01:08:20 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to MRO on Fri May 10 2019 12:32 am

    there's been rumors about that for several years. i doubt they would do that.

    actually that is thier plan for their business versions.



    that's probably a good idea for businesses.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Hustler on Sat May 11 01:09:44 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Nightfox on Fri May 10 2019 08:46 am

    Microsoft wants to make a "One size fits all" OS that works with all devices. That's why Windows 10 is so "flat". I personally don't think the idea will work. I don't want my phone to look like my computer. Apparently people get confused with the variety of Operating systems out there. Maybe it's just another way to save money for the company?



    my windows 10 os is not flat.

    you sound like you saw windows 8 and that's what you are basing your opinion on.

    my desktop computer's windows 10 os does not look like a tablet or cellphone ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Denn on Fri May 10 10:09:00 2019
    Denn wrote to MRO <=-

    actually that is thier plan for their business versions.

    Many enterprise-sized businesses buy software assurance for their
    OSes, that lets them upgrade at will during the course of the
    contract.

    I always hated the double-dipping - you're paying for a Windows OEM
    license, because you don't have a choice, then you're paying software
    assurance on top of that.



    ... Have you ever asked a question you weren't supposed to ask?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Sat May 11 15:30:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Fri May 10 2019 01:56 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri May 10 2019 10:57 am

    Yeah, I think the industry in general has gone to making things look
    flat an mono-tone. Microsoft, Apple, and Google have all made their

    After any period of time, any distinctive display layout is going to lo dated.

    Dated? This flat interface style hasn't even been around for a long time.. seemed to start around 2012 (with Windows 8 and versions of OS X, iOS, Andro etc. coming out around then) which I guess was already about 7 years ago now But I thought it looked weird even then when it was the new UI for those operating systems.

    Nightfox


    When Win95 came out, their desktop looked modern and timeless. Win2000 was "flat," and when XP came out, they spruced it up. When comparing XP to Win7
    to 10, it looks dated. While it's hard to guess what the next GUI
    enhancements are going to look like, I'm sure users will be able to tell the difference between the new and "old" product.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Sat May 11 16:15:09 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sat May 11 2019 11:30 am

    When Win95 came out, their desktop looked modern and timeless. Win2000 was "flat," and when XP came out, they spruced it up. When comparing XP to Win7 to 10, it looks dated. While it's hard to guess what the next GUI enhancements are going to look like, I'm sure users will be able to tell the difference between the new and "old" product.

    How does the Win2000 interface look flat? It looked basically the same as Win95/98. From Win95 to Windows 7, I think the GUI looks a lot better than Windows 8/8.1/10. And actually, to me, the flat look of Windows 8/8.1/10 looks dated, like something out of the late 70s/early 80s.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sat May 11 16:17:35 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Denn on Fri May 10 2019 09:08 pm

    there's been rumors about that for several years. i doubt they
    would do that.

    actually that is thier plan for their business versions.

    that's probably a good idea for businesses.

    Perhaps, but it kinda sucks for the consumer. Imagine if companies did that for other types of products - What if you had to pay a yearly fee to continue to use your car, or anything else? The product basically becomes leased/rented rather than owned. I prefer being able to buy something up-front and using it for as long as I want.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sat May 11 16:20:29 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Hustler on Fri May 10 2019 09:09 pm

    my windows 10 os is not flat.

    you sound like you saw windows 8 and that's what you are basing your opinion on.

    my desktop computer's windows 10 os does not look like a tablet or cellphone ---

    Windows 10 still looks fairly flat. If you look at the GUI elements in Windows 10 like window borders, buttons, etc., it's all flat and has no depth like in previous versions of Windows. So when you say your Windows 10 is not flat, I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about, unless you're using something like WindowBlinds to skin the UI.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Havens@VERT/SESTAR to Nightfox on Sat May 11 20:07:23 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat May 11 2019 12:20:29

    my windows 10 os is not flat.

    you sound like you saw windows 8 and that's what you are basing your
    opinion on.

    Windows 10 still looks fairly flat. If you look at the GUI elements in Windows 10 like window borders, buttons, etc., it's all flat and has no depth like in previous versions of Windows. So when you say your Windows 10 is not flat, I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about, unless you're using something like WindowBlinds to skin the UI.

    It's "Flat" Windows 10 out of the box is "flat". There's no other way to put it. Windows 7 made my PC come alive. The only reason Windows 10 is not dying like windows 8 did is because they are abandoning the previous two. I say F*&CK Microsoft! Run Linux. Everthing you will ever need runs on linux and it's Free! It will always be Free!. Windows is 10 FLAT in more then one way. They love the Big companies and shit on the personal PC users. F*7ck em!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Nightfox on Sat May 11 20:18:59 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sat May 11 2019 12:15 pm

    How does the Win2000 interface look flat? It looked basically the same as Win95/98. From Win95 to Windows 7, I think the GUI looks a lot better than Windows 8/8.1/10. And actually, to me, the flat look of Windows 8/8.1/10 looks dated, like something out of the late 70s/early 80s.


    My Laptop has windows 8.1 and I hate the square box crap so I use classic start so at least it works more like windows 7.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Sat May 11 21:44:06 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sat May 11 2019 11:30 am

    When Win95 came out, their desktop looked modern and timeless. Win2000 was "flat," and when XP came out, they spruced it up. When comparing XP to Win7 to 10, it looks dated. While it's hard to guess what the next GUI enhancements are going to look like, I'm sure users will be able to tell the difference between the new and "old" product.



    this is all your opinion.

    windows 95's desktop appearance is not modern and timeless.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sat May 11 21:45:34 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat May 11 2019 12:20 pm

    Windows 10 still looks fairly flat. If you look at the GUI elements in Windows 10 like window borders, buttons, etc., it's all flat and has no depth like in previous versions of Windows. So when you say your Windows 10 is not flat, I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about, unless you're using something like WindowBlinds to skin the UI.



    when you are saying it IS flat, i dont know what you are talking about.
    should everything be rounded and 3d? i have no complaints about the UI appearance other than i hate the default start menu.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Denn on Sat May 11 19:56:44 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Sat May 11 2019 04:18 pm

    My Laptop has windows 8.1 and I hate the square box crap so I use classic start so at least it works more like windows 7.

    It's not just the Start menu though.. The other parts of the GUI in Windows 10, such as the window borders, buttons, etc. look flat too.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sun May 12 02:08:14 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat May 11 2019 05:45 pm

    when you are saying it IS flat, i dont know what you are talking about. should everything be rounded and 3d? i have no complaints about the UI appearance other than i hate the default start menu.

    You seem to be contradicting yourself.. You said earlier your Windows 10 doesn't look flat, but now "should everything be rounded and 3D?" You still haven't explained what you meant about your Windows 10 not looking flat. Are you using a different Windows 10 than I am?

    I think the earlier Windows GUIs with the depth did look better.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Mon May 13 00:08:00 2019
    On 05-10-19 09:34, Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    At home, I couldn't really care less about Outlook (I don't use it as
    my personal email client), but my work uses Outlook. I do like
    OneNote, though I've only been using OneNote at work for work-related notes. At home, the parts of Office I use most are Word and Excel.

    I don't use Outlook either, only place I like Outlook is on a site that uses Exchange. For general IMAP email, I prefer Thunderbird. Word and Excel are the parts of Office I use the most too. I used to use LibreOffice until I had to edit Word documents that required Word to preserve formatting.

    I occasionally use PowerPoint, for when I'm doing public speaking.

    Haven't gtten into OneNote yet. Sounds like I should. :L)


    ... Jargon is used as a means of succeeding by, not simplifying.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Mon May 13 00:32:00 2019
    On 05-11-19 17:45, MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    when you are saying it IS flat, i dont know what you are talking
    about. should everything be rounded and 3d? i have no complaints about
    the UI appearance other than i hate the default start menu.

    I'm pretty much the same, I don't like the default Windows 10 start menu either. The categoeies are a pain to work out where everything is. As for the overall look of the UI, I don't mind it.


    ... I have a step ladder - I never knew my real ladder.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Havens on Sun May 12 08:50:22 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Havens to Nightfox on Sat May 11 2019 04:07 pm

    It's "Flat" Windows 10 out of the box is "flat". There's no other way to put it. Windows 7 made my PC come alive. The only reason Windows 10 is not dying like windows 8 did is because they are abandoning the previous two. I say F*&CK Microsoft! Run Linux. Everthing you will ever need runs on linux and it's Free! It will always be Free!. Windows is 10 FLAT in more then one way. They love the Big companies and shit on the personal PC users. F*7ck

    Whoa there old timer. Microsoft is one of the biggest money contributors to Linux. Microsoft contributes a crap ton of code to open source community now days. The reason why Wine is getting so good is because Microsoft is sharing more information. You can like Linux. Nothing wrong with that. But Microsoft is not the same dickheads they were under Balmer.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Havens on Sun May 12 13:17:30 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Havens to Nightfox on Sat May 11 2019 04:07 pm

    It's "Flat" Windows 10 out of the box is "flat". There's no other way to put it. Windows 7 made my PC come alive. The only reason Windows 10 is not

    i dont know why you keep saying flat. windows 7 and windows 10 are essentially the same thing.

    say F*&CK Microsoft! Run Linux. Everthing you will ever need runs on linux and it's Free! It will always be Free!. Windows is 10 FLAT in more then one way. They love the Big companies and shit on the personal PC users. F*7ck em!

    i never got shit on by microsoft.
    i run linux and windows 10 and windows 7. linux is best for a server. pretty much every linux gui i've seen is just a poor copy of windows.

    i still prefer windows for my regular home os.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sun May 12 13:18:20 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Denn on Sat May 11 2019 03:56 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Sat May 11 2019 04:18 pm

    My Laptop has windows 8.1 and I hate the square box crap so I use classic start so at least it works more like windows 7.

    It's not just the Start menu though.. The other parts of the GUI in Windows 10, such as the window borders, buttons, etc. look flat too.


    ah well. is everything supposed to look like a bubble?
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Sun May 12 13:20:41 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat May 11 2019 10:08 pm


    should everything be rounded and 3d? i have no complaints about the UI appearance other than i hate the default start menu.

    You seem to be contradicting yourself.. You said earlier your Windows 10 doesn't look flat, but now "should everything be rounded and 3D?" You still haven't explained what you meant about your Windows 10 not looking flat.
    Are you using a different Windows 10 than I am?

    I think the earlier Windows GUIs with the depth did look better.


    i dont get your complaints. i didnt see any 'depth' with any previous os.

    windows doesnt look flat to me.
    and i dont see how 'flat' would be complaint.
    are you talking about the window borders? i dont mind that.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Badopcode on Sun May 12 13:23:57 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Havens on Sun May 12 2019 04:50 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Havens to Nightfox on Sat May 11 2019 04:07 pm

    It's "Flat" Windows 10 out of the box is "flat". There's no other way to put it. Windows 7 made my PC come alive. The only reason Windows 10 is not dying like windows 8 did is because they are abandoning the previous two. I say F*&CK Microsoft! Run Linux. Everthing you will ever need runs on linux and it's Free! It will always be Free!. Windows is 10 FLAT in more then one way. They love the Big companies and shit on the personal PC users. F*7ck

    Whoa there old timer. Microsoft is one of the biggest money contributors to Linux. Microsoft contributes a crap ton of code to open source community now days. The reason why Wine is getting so good is because Microsoft is sharing more information. You can like Linux. Nothing wrong with that.
    But Microsoft is not the same dickheads they were under Balmer.



    microsoft is the least asshole out of all of them. microsoft wants your money.
    google, facebook, twitter, linkedin, etc want all your information and they want to own YOU.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Sat May 11 11:23:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    At home, I couldn't really care less about Outlook (I don't use it as
    my personal email client), but my work uses Outlook. I do like
    OneNote, though I've only been using OneNote at work for work-related notes. At home, the parts of Office I use most are Word and Excel.

    I tried using Google Keep as a note keeper, but it's a little too lean
    for my tastes. Copying/pasting images into it is a little cumbersome,
    and there's a size limit to the notes you keep.

    OneNote beats it handily, IMO. It's the only Microsoft app I keep on
    my phone for home use.



    ... Do you ever see inconsistencies in your world?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Sun May 12 13:37:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    Perhaps, but it kinda sucks for the consumer. Imagine if companies did that for other types of products - What if you had to pay a yearly fee
    to continue to use your car, or anything else? The product basically becomes leased/rented rather than owned. I prefer being able to buy something up-front and using it for as long as I want.

    If your car were continually upgraded during the course of the life of
    the car, it would be a little closer to the analogy.

    Elon Musk has made some comments about not back-porting some of the improvements to older models, saying you should lease and get a new
    car every couple of years to keep up. Getting over car ownership in
    America will take a while for a lot of people, myself included.



    ... Can you hear me?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Badopcode on Sun May 12 13:39:57 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Havens on Sun May 12 2019 04:50 am

    Whoa there old timer. Microsoft is one of the biggest money contributors to Linux. Microsoft contributes a crap ton of code to
    open source community now days. The reason why Wine is getting so good is because Microsoft is sharing more information. You
    can like Linux. Nothing wrong with that. But Microsoft is not the same dickheads they were under Balmer.

    Hmmm... M$ being dickheads goes back much further than Ballmer. Yes, you're right though in that M$ is contributing, but there are
    those who are very leery about what they're doing, as one really doesn't *want* M$ being the biggest money contributer (read:
    influencer) to, say, the Linux foundation. Has Extend and Embrace really died?

    Also, M$ and Google have just been pinpointed as being massive contributors to the oil industry's technology (but I didn't really
    see that as being a big surprise). However, for all they may want to tout pushing in a greener direction, they're proving to be
    just run-of-the-mill capitalists who will whore themselves out to anyone. Dickheads, just in different ways.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to MRO on Sun May 12 13:43:27 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Badopcode on Sun May 12 2019 09:23 am

    microsoft is the least asshole out of all of them. microsoft wants your money.
    google, facebook, twitter, linkedin, etc want all your information and they want to own YOU.

    That's amusing how Stockholm syndrome works.

    Microsoft has been brutal to everyone along the way, they spy on you now, and you believe they're 'less' on the bad scale. I
    dunno, I think they're all in need of shake-ups, more stringent laws (laws that need to catch up with issues that never were a
    thing in the past), etc.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 18:14:30 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to Badopcode on Sun May 12 2019 09:39 am

    Hmmm... M$ being dickheads goes back much further than Ballmer. Yes, you're right though in that M$ is contributing, but there are
    those who are very leery about what they're doing, as one really doesn't *want* M$ being the biggest money contributer (read:

    was microsoft really being dickheads or were they just running their business like a business when the other guys were idiots that couldn't keep up?

    getting their os installed on computers being sold was a great idea that most of the other guys didn't think of.

    i really dont see microsoft as the bad guy; they made money when others didnt. they also stimulated growth when other hardware and software manufacturers wanted to remain stagnant.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 18:17:10 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to MRO on Sun May 12 2019 09:43 am

    money.
    google, facebook, twitter, linkedin, etc want all your information and they want to own YOU.

    That's amusing how Stockholm syndrome works.

    i'm not a prisoner of microsoft.

    Microsoft has been brutal to everyone along the way, they spy on you now, and you believe they're 'less' on the bad scale. I
    dunno, I think they're all in need of shake-ups, more stringent laws (laws that need to catch up with issues that never were a
    thing in the past), etc.

    dont know about you, but microsoft never fucked me up the butt.

    facebook seriously spies on people. they listen via your mic and show you ads about what it hears.

    microsoft isnt a devious company. they just want to make money. they dont want to change the world and be in control of it.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Badopcode on Sun May 12 18:18:38 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Havens on Sun May 12 2019 04:50 am

    Whoa there old timer. Microsoft is one of the biggest money contributors to Linux. Microsoft contributes a crap ton of code to open source community now days. The reason why Wine is getting so good is because Microsoft is sharing more information. You can like Linux. Nothing wrong with that. But Microsoft is not the same dickheads they were under Balmer.

    Microsofts intrest in Linux is purely self serving.
    Microsoft hates wine they certainly have'nt contributed to the wine project.
    also I could've sworn I read an article concerning Microsofts abuse of the Linux GNU awhile back.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Mon May 13 13:09:00 2019
    On 05-12-19 09:17, MRO wrote to Havens <=-

    i never got shit on by microsoft.
    i run linux and windows 10 and windows 7. linux is best for a server. pretty much every linux gui i've seen is just a poor copy of windows.

    I use only Linux for my server tasks. For desktop, I like a mix of Windows and Linux. The new Linux subsystem in Windows 10 might be a good fit for me. Definitely something I want to try. I would definitely be running an X server, so I can use Linux GUI apps on the Windows desktop.

    i still prefer windows for my regular home os.

    I primarily use Windows for desktop use, but have a Linux desktop for some tasks.


    ... There's always one more bug.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 13 13:13:00 2019
    On 05-12-19 09:37, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nightfox <=-

    If your car were continually upgraded during the course of the life of
    the car, it would be a little closer to the analogy.

    Yep. That's one of the reasons I went for the Office365 subscription. Cost wise, it looked about the same as buying a new Office release whenever they came out. And I've had a heap of upgrades in the course of my subscription, far more than the old release cycle.

    Elon Musk has made some comments about not back-porting some of the improvements to older models, saying you should lease and get a new
    car every couple of years to keep up. Getting over car ownership in America will take a while for a lot of people, myself included.

    Yeah, I would have a few issues adjusting - ham radio for one. :D But I see advantages to alternatives to car ownership, if it can be made to work.


    ... Do you, Sysop, take this BBS, to be your wedded spouse??
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to MRO on Sun May 12 21:56:44 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 2019 02:17 pm

    dont know about you, but microsoft never fucked me up the butt.

    If you ever bought a PC that had Windows pre-installed, you were getting exactly that. You may have been happy to have that, but
    let's not beat around the issue, that's exactly what you got.

    You haven't seen their source code, have you?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to MRO on Sun May 12 21:57:38 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 2019 02:14 pm

    i really dont see microsoft as the bad guy; they made money when others didnt. they also stimulated growth when other hardware
    and software manufacturers wanted to remain stagnant.

    They were part of the largest antitrust case in history for a reason.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Mon May 13 00:32:20 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun May 12 2019 09:20 am

    I think the earlier Windows GUIs with the depth did look better.

    i dont get your complaints. i didnt see any 'depth' with any previous os.

    I think the buttons looked like they had a little more depth than Windows 10's buttons. Also things like the window borders did too, at least with the default theme.

    windows doesnt look flat to me.
    and i dont see how 'flat' would be complaint.
    are you talking about the window borders? i dont mind that.

    Yes, the window borders and the buttons, etc. Also the mono-tone colors. I just think it looks ugly.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 13 00:34:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sun May 12 2019 09:37 am

    Elon Musk has made some comments about not back-porting some of the improvements to older models, saying you should lease and get a new
    car every couple of years to keep up. Getting over car ownership in America will take a while for a lot of people, myself included.

    Some products (like smart TVs, DSLR cameras, etc.) usually tout the feature that you can upgrade their firmware to get bug fixes and sometimes new features. Same with PC motherboards and BIOS flash upgrades. One thing I've noticed is that usually they'll only get a couple updates though..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Va7aqd on Mon May 13 03:22:56 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to MRO on Sun May 12 2019 05:56 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 2019 02:17 pm

    dont know about you, but microsoft never fucked me up the butt.

    If you ever bought a PC that had Windows pre-installed, you were getting exactly that. You may have been happy to have that, but
    let's not beat around the issue, that's exactly what you got.


    explain.

    You haven't seen their source code, have you?

    source code for what
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Va7aqd on Mon May 13 03:23:49 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to MRO on Sun May 12 2019 05:57 pm

    didnt. they also stimulated growth when other hardware
    and software manufacturers wanted to remain stagnant.

    They were part of the largest antitrust case in history for a reason.


    eh, that was all stupid.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Mon May 13 22:59:00 2019
    On 05-12-19 20:32, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    I think the buttons looked like they had a little more depth than
    Windows 10's buttons. Also things like the window borders did too, at least with the default theme.

    Yeah, you seem to be particularly picky about this, and I've been scratching my head over this one.


    ... You were sent here as a warning to others, weren't you?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Hustler@VERT/HAVENS to Vk3jed on Mon May 13 12:29:07 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 06:59 pm

    I think the buttons looked like they had a little more depth than
    Windows 10's buttons. Also things like the window borders did too,
    at least with the default theme.

    Yeah, you seem to be particularly picky about this, and I've been scratching my head over this one.

    It's called "eye candy" alot of users like it. They also like to change it occasionaly to please the eye when staring at their desktop day in and day out. Windows 10 puts me to sleep. ;-)

    Hustler

    ... Beauty is transitory. Beauty survives. Spock and Kirk, stardate unknown.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Haven BBS. havens.synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Mon May 13 13:30:04 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 06:59 pm

    I think the buttons looked like they had a little more depth than
    Windows 10's buttons. Also things like the window borders did too,
    at least with the default theme.

    Yeah, you seem to be particularly picky about this, and I've been scratching my head over this one.

    I just think it looks a bit ugly, but I know not everyone will think the same..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Mon May 13 13:39:29 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Havens on Sun May 12 2019 04:50 am

    Whoa there old timer. Microsoft is one of the biggest money contributors to Linux. Microsoft contributes a crap ton of code to open source community now days. The reason why Wine is getting so good is because Microsoft is sharing more information. You can like Linux. Nothing wrong with that. But Microsoft is not the same dickheads they were under Balmer.

    It's cool that Microsoft is supporting Linux more these days, but I think I'll have to wait and see if I really trust them or not. Microsoft has sued some companies over supposed patent violations related to using Linux or Linux-based software. Supposedly Microsoft has eased up on that, but we'll see where that goes.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Mon May 13 14:04:03 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 2019 02:14 pm

    was microsoft really being dickheads or were they just running their business like a business when the other guys were idiots that couldn't keep up?

    getting their os installed on computers being sold was a great idea that most of the other guys didn't think of.

    It's not just that they got their OS installed on computers being sold. Microsoft used tactics to try to make their position stronger, such as requiring PC makers not to install competing software on their machines, such as web browsers other than Internet Explorer.

    i really dont see microsoft as the bad guy; they made money when others didnt. they also stimulated growth when other hardware and software manufacturers wanted to remain stagnant.

    It's not that other software/hardware manufacturers wanted to remain stagnant. There were other options besides Microsoft Windows - And I agree they probably should have made deals to get their OS installed on PCs like Microsoft did with Windows. I think OS/2 was good, and there were other GUI environments like GeoWorks Ensamble (AKA GEOS, I believe), and of course Apple Mac, and Linux was around in the 90s too. The market wasn't stagnant. If anything, I think there are fewer options for PC operating systems these days (only Windows, Mac, and Linux are the major platforms for consumer PCs these days). Smartphones & tablets have provided other options though.

    Microsoft has used some tactics that I think were a bit sketchy. Microsoft made Windows 3.x not run well on DOS operating systems other than MS-DOS (for instance, DR-DOS users had problems running Windows 3.x).

    Also, Internet Explorer 6 - There's a reason why IE6 was hated so much. Since Microsoft included Internet Explorer in Windows, many people started using IE as their web browser because it was already there. And IE6 behaved different from other browsers in terms of various web standards (and had its own quirks/bugs), but since IE was the dominant browser for a long time, web developers had to make a special effort to make their web sites work with IE. And in some cases, some web sites would only work in IE. I had a theory that Microsoft used their market dominance with IE to purposefully make IE6 behave different in order to protect their market position for IE.

    Microsoft has sued some companies over software patents supposedly used in Linux and some Linux software. Microsoft is supposedly easing up on that these days, but time will tell how well that goes.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Mon May 13 14:04:59 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 2019 02:17 pm

    facebook seriously spies on people. they listen via your mic and show you ads about what it hears.

    I don't think it has been proven that Facebook listens using your mic, has it?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Denn on Mon May 13 14:05:44 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to Badopcode on Sun May 12 2019 02:18 pm

    Microsofts intrest in Linux is purely self serving.
    Microsoft hates wine they certainly have'nt contributed to the wine project. also I could've sworn I read an article concerning Microsofts abuse of the Linux GNU awhile back.

    Yep. And regarding Wine, I've always heard they've had to reverse-engineer the Windows APIs, and that always has its problems.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Va7aqd on Mon May 13 14:08:19 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to MRO on Sun May 12 2019 05:57 pm

    They were part of the largest antitrust case in history for a reason.

    I thought it was a little odd when they basically dropped the anti-trust
    case and didn't split up Microsoft like some were proposing. I don't remember if the anti-trust case was totally dropped or if they did take some actions against Microsoft?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Mon May 13 14:08:56 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 2019 11:22 pm

    You haven't seen their source code, have you?

    source code for what

    I'm guessing he means Windows? Or any of Microsoft's software?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to MRO on Mon May 13 14:30:40 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 2019 11:22 pm

    dont know about you, but microsoft never fucked me up the butt.
    If you ever bought a PC that had Windows pre-installed, you were getting exactly that. You may have been happy to have that,
    but
    let's not beat around the issue, that's exactly what you got.
    explain.

    There's a million things one can rattle off about how Microsoft has screwed the world ever since Windows 3.1, but to narrow things
    down to just one thing, your funding of Microsoft (wittingly or otherwise) helped destroy tech innovation outside of Microsoft for
    a number of years. You paid to get told by your master that they screwed over various companies so that their products wouldn't
    work well or at all on their shitty OS. You paid for MS to cut freedom and choice. You paid for your BSODs, driver hell, buggy,
    bloated, piles of crap, and now you've supported them in to the spyware game. You not only took it up the chuff, you helped them
    ram it in to others as well.

    Yay.

    You haven't seen their source code, have you?
    source code for what

    The OS.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Nightfox on Mon May 13 16:19:56 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to MRO on Sun May 12 2019 05:57 pm

    I thought it was a little odd when they basically dropped the anti-trust
    case and didn't split up Microsoft like some were proposing. I don't remember if the anti-trust case was totally dropped or if they did take some actions against Microsoft?


    I thought the antitrust lawsuit was because of the integration of Thier web browser into Windows and the blocking of competitive browsers.
    Microsoft squelching competition.
    Maybe I'm wrong or maybe that's only part of it?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Nightfox on Mon May 13 15:47:59 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Va7aqd on Mon May 13 2019 10:08 am

    I thought it was a little odd when they basically dropped the anti-trust case and didn't split up Microsoft like some were proposing. I don't remember if the anti-trust case was totally dropped or if
    they did take some actions against Microsoft?

    Yeah it was totally watered down, part of it was from the original judge acting apparently immorally? Yeesh. The anti-trust case
    was set up stupidly in the first place, though. It should have been about tying the OS to OEM PCs. Fun to revisit, but is rather
    annoying to think back on.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Hustler@VERT to Nightfox on Mon May 13 15:49:53 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon May 13 2019 10:08 am

    You haven't seen their source code, have you?

    source code for what

    I'm guessing he means Windows? Or any of Microsoft's software?

    Nightfox

    Isn't the source code in the library of congress locked up in a safe behind 3 Pitbulls? ;-)

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Hustler@VERT to Denn on Mon May 13 15:53:57 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 12:19 pm

    I thought it was a little odd when they basically dropped the
    anti-trust case and didn't split up Microsoft like some were

    I thought the antitrust lawsuit was because of the integration of Thier web browser into Windows and the blocking of competitive browsers. Microsoft squelching competition.
    Maybe I'm wrong or maybe that's only part of it?

    Yea and they won. Last time I checked Windows still comes with a built in browser. It's called "Edge".

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Denn on Mon May 13 16:49:32 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 12:19 pm

    I thought it was a little odd when they basically dropped the
    anti-trust case and didn't split up Microsoft like some were
    proposing. I don't remember if the anti-trust case was totally
    dropped or if they did take some actions against Microsoft?

    I thought the antitrust lawsuit was because of the integration of Thier web browser into Windows and the blocking of competitive browsers. Microsoft squelching competition.
    Maybe I'm wrong or maybe that's only part of it?

    Yes, from what I remember, that was a major part of it. And from what I remember, the US DOJ had initially planned to split up Microsoft into 2 companies, one which would be an OS company and the other to be mainly a software company making software for other companies' operating systems.

    Splitting up Microsoft as such would have theoretically allowed more competition because the same company would not be producing both the OS and the web browser and integrating them tightly as Microsoft did with IE and Windows.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Va7aqd on Mon May 13 16:51:34 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 11:47 am

    Yeah it was totally watered down, part of it was from the original judge acting apparently immorally? Yeesh. The anti-trust case was set up stupidly in the first place, though. It should have been about tying the OS to OEM PCs. Fun to revisit, but is rather annoying to think back on.

    Other companies could have made deals to have their OS installed on OEM PCs, and perhaps should have. I don't really see much of a problem with that. I thought IBM should have made more deals to get OS/2 installed on OEM PCs, but it was their decision not to (for whatever reason they had). There was also BeOS that came around in the mid-late 90s - Be, Inc. initially made their own computer (the BeBox) with BeOS installed, but later released versions of BeOS for any x86-based PC.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hustler on Mon May 13 16:52:27 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 11:49 am

    source code for what

    I'm guessing he means Windows? Or any of Microsoft's software?

    Isn't the source code in the library of congress locked up in a safe behind 3 Pitbulls? ;-)

    I don't know, but I remember hearing in the news about 12 or so years ago that the source code for Windows 2000 had been leaked. I remember checking at the time and found that there were BitTorrents of the Windows 2000 source code..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hustler on Mon May 13 16:57:59 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Denn on Mon May 13 2019 11:53 am

    I thought the antitrust lawsuit was because of the integration of
    Thier web browser into Windows and the blocking of competitive
    browsers. Microsoft squelching competition.
    Maybe I'm wrong or maybe that's only part of it?

    Yea and they won. Last time I checked Windows still comes with a built in browser. It's called "Edge".

    I'm not sure if it's that Microsoft 'won', I thought the DOJ had dropped those charges, or just didn't follow through with splitting up Microsoft. IE was still included with Microsoft for a long time; Edge is quite a bit newer (being included in Windows 10). And last I heard, Microsoft has abandoned Edge and is developing a new Chromium-based web browser.
    https://bit.ly/2UbYdsX

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Mon May 13 10:39:00 2019
    MRO wrote to Va7aqd <=-

    was microsoft really being dickheads or were they just running their business like a business when the other guys were idiots that couldn't keep up?

    getting their os installed on computers being sold was a great idea
    that most of the other guys didn't think of.

    Making OEM agreements = smart business. Threatening to lock out OEMs
    from buying Microsoft products unless they purchased one copy for each
    system they sold, (because PIRACY) while putting their competitors at
    a disadvantage (since the customer had already purchased Windows,
    regardless of whether they wanted to or not) is a dickhead move.

    i really dont see microsoft as the bad guy; they made money when others didnt. they also stimulated growth when other hardware and software manufacturers wanted to remain stagnant.

    They had competition. They used their market share to kill their
    competition. I don't know what you mean by hardware remaining
    stagnant, could you be more specific?



    ... Can you hear me?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Mon May 13 19:41:33 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon May 13 2019 10:04 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 2019 02:17 pm

    facebook seriously spies on people. they listen via your mic and show you ads about what it hears.

    I don't think it has been proven that Facebook listens using your mic, has it?

    Zucky admitted it. He said it was was "with your permission" of course. You clicked the EULA, of course you read it!

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #75:
    Rob's alias "digital man" was inspired by a song on Rush's 1982 "Signals" album.
    Norco, CA WX: 70.5°F, 69.0% humidity, 10 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Nightfox on Mon May 13 19:53:59 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Va7aqd on Mon May 13 2019 12:51 pm

    Other companies could have made deals to have their OS installed on OEM PCs, and perhaps should have. I don't really see much

    No, no they couldn't - companies were strong-armed very early on:

    "Beginning in 1983, Microsoft sold MS-DOS licenses to OEMs on an individually-negotiated basis. The contracts required OEMs to
    purchase a number of MS-DOS licenses equal to or greater than the number of computers sold, with the result of zero marginal cost
    for OEMs to include MS-DOS. Installing an operating system other than MS-DOS would effectively require double payment of operating
    system royalties. Also, Microsoft penalized OEMs that installed alternative operating systems by making their license terms less
    favorable."

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Digital Man on Mon May 13 20:00:10 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 03:41 pm

    I don't think it has been proven that Facebook listens using your mic, has it?
    Zucky admitted it. He said it was was "with your permission" of course. You clicked the EULA, of course you read it!

    And not just read it, but which *parts* have you read and agreed to? Head to Facebook's terms page and there's references to more
    than a handful of other pages. Nearly nobody's going to read it all (except as research project, perhaps) and catch every
    implication of what they're asking for.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Hustler on Tue May 14 02:47:56 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hustler to Vk3jed on Mon May 13 2019 08:29 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 06:59 pm

    I think the buttons looked like they had a little more depth than
    Windows 10's buttons. Also things like the window borders did too,
    at least with the default theme.

    Yeah, you seem to be particularly picky about this, and I've been scratching my head over this one.

    It's called "eye candy" alot of users like it. They also like to change it occasionaly to please the eye when staring at their desktop day in and day out. Windows 10 puts me to sleep. ;-)

    back when i first got into windows i liked to have custom icons and custom sounds for everything.

    now i just want something that doesnt piss me off. i dont want an operating system to be eye candy.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tue May 14 02:53:53 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon May 13 2019 10:04 am

    It's not just that they got their OS installed on computers being sold. Microsoft used tactics to try to make their position stronger, such as requiring PC makers not to install competing software on their machines, such as web browsers other than Internet Explorer.


    i can understand that. it's okay if the users install that, but they shouldnt blemish the microsoft OS when it's sold with a new product.

    It's not that other software/hardware manufacturers wanted to remain stagnant. There were other options besides Microsoft Windows - And I agree they probably should have made deals to get their OS installed on PCs like Microsoft did with Windows. I think OS/2 was good, and there were other GUI environments like GeoWorks Ensamble (AKA GEOS, I believe), and of course Apple Mac, and Linux was around in the 90s too. The market wasn't stagnant. If anything, I think there are fewer options for PC operating systems these


    hardware and software had to be reverse engineered in some cases to continue forward.

    regarding windows, it did well because it was a well marketed product. i even remember os2 being on the shelves and it was a bit pricy in compairison.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tue May 14 02:57:08 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon May 13 2019 10:04 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Va7aqd on Sun May 12 2019 02:17 pm

    facebook seriously spies on people. they listen via your mic and show you ads about what it hears.

    I don't think it has been proven that Facebook listens using your mic, has it?



    it's happened to me and my friends. also facebook pixel is a huge data collection scheme.

    one example is i called my gf to tell her about and issue about the garage door. i mentioned an issue with it and i talked about the parts of the door.

    i opened up facebook and in the amazon targetted ads, there were the exact things i was talking about. this has happened several times. i never did a search for those things on my phone or on amazon before.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Va7aqd on Tue May 14 02:58:50 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to MRO on Mon May 13 2019 10:30 am


    There's a million things one can rattle off about how Microsoft has screwed the world ever since Windows 3.1, but to narrow things
    down to just one thing, your funding of Microsoft (wittingly or otherwise) helped destroy tech innovation outside of Microsoft for
    a number of years. You paid to get told by your master that they screwed over various companies so that their products wouldn't
    work well or at all on their shitty OS. You paid for MS to cut freedom and choice. You paid for your BSODs, driver hell, buggy,
    bloated, piles of crap, and now you've supported them in to the spyware game. You not only took it up the chuff, you helped them
    ram it in to others as well.

    Yay.


    i have no complaints. the strong survive.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Denn on Tue May 14 02:59:24 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 12:19 pm

    I thought the antitrust lawsuit was because of the integration of Thier web browser into Windows and the blocking of competitive browsers.
    Microsoft squelching competition.
    Maybe I'm wrong or maybe that's only part of it?


    there was an issue with the media player in europe, too.
    just stupid stuff that the courts didnt fully understand.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Tue May 14 03:02:30 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon May 13 2019 03:41 pm


    Zucky admitted it. He said it was was "with your permission" of course. You clicked the EULA, of course you read it!

    digital man


    just recently it mentioned a secondary google email account on my phone and asked me to import my contacts from it. i said no.
    then my friend suggestions are people that are contacts from that email account.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hustler on Tue May 14 23:01:00 2019
    On 05-13-19 08:29, Hustler wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    It's called "eye candy" alot of users like it. They also like to
    change it occasionaly to please the eye when staring at their desktop
    day in and day out. Windows 10 puts me to sleep. ;-)

    Yeah, I don't give a rats arse about that stuff. As long as the interface is functional. When I'm managing servers, I'm staring at a CLI anyway, most of the time! ;)

    ... Beauty is transitory. Beauty survives. Spock and Kirk, stardate unknown.

    Seems rather relevant. Did you choose that one, or is your reader's AI kicking in again? ;)


    ... He who seeks a friend without a fault remains friendless
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Tue May 14 23:02:00 2019
    On 05-13-19 09:30, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I just think it looks a bit ugly, but I know not everyone will think
    the same..

    As I said to someone else, I don't give a rats bout how good a UI looks, as long as it does the job. :)


    ... Rehab is for quitters.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Heliarc@VERT/HAVENS to Nightfox on Tue May 14 14:27:45 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Hustler on Mon May 13 2019 12:52 pm

    source code for what

    I'm guessing he means Windows? Or any of Microsoft's software?

    Isn't the source code in the library of congress locked up in a
    safe behind 3 Pitbulls? ;-)

    I don't know, but I remember hearing in the news about 12 or so years ago that the source code for Windows 2000 had been leaked. I remember checking at the time and found that there were BitTorrents of the Windows 2000 source code..

    I would be happy to pay money for Windows OS if I could use it on any PC I purchased but that can be difficult. Suppose I buy an HP that has a piece of software I like? I can't install my copy of windows and keep just the software I want. So now the copy of Windows I paid 100 bucks for is no good. I'm also not going to get a 100 dollars off the price of the machine because I own a copy of Windows.Microsoft gives the licence to the company that make the machine. Unless you use a free OS you have only two choices. A Microsoft PC or an Apple PC. And then there's Linux.. YAY!!

    Heliarc

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Haven BBS. havens.synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Va7aqd on Tue May 14 14:16:43 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Denn on Mon May 13 2019 10:59 pm

    there was an issue with the media player in europe, too.
    just stupid stuff that the courts didnt fully understand.

    Yeah, I don't think the courts fully understand computer stuff either. But they're also just trying to watch out for consumer rights.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Denn on Tue May 14 19:10:24 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to MRO on Thu May 09 2019 09:39 am

    My point is that support for windows 7 is ending and I hate window's 10
    Linux and wine for linux has come a long way recently and I can run most of my windows programs in wine or there are alternatetive programs for linux that I use.

    Why do you hate Windows 10? From a stability perspective, it is rock solid. Yes, Microsoft is having a grand time keeping it up to date, but it is a good operating system.

    Dream Master

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Tue May 14 22:56:00 2019
    now i just want something that doesnt piss me off. i dont want an operating system to be eye candy.

    +1

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ I don't have a solution, but I do admire the problem.
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Tue May 14 22:58:00 2019
    i opened up facebook and in the amazon targetted ads, there were the exact things i was talking about. this has happened several times. i never did a search for those things on my phone or on amazon before.

    I started watching the FX show "What We Do In The Shadows." A couple of
    weeks of watching it, and the Youtube app on my phone started suggesting
    that I watch a recording of the full theme song, along with other songs by
    the same artist... one that I had never heard of before and had never
    searched for.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ Mistress: halfway between a mister and a mattress.
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Heliarc@VERT/HAVENS to Vk3jed on Tue May 14 18:09:57 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hustler on Tue May 14 2019 07:01 pm

    It's called "eye candy" alot of users like it. They also like to
    change it occasionaly to please the eye when staring at their
    Yeah, I don't give a rats arse about that stuff. As long as the interface is functional. When I'm managing servers, I'm staring at a CLI anyway, most of the time! ;)

    ... Beauty is transitory. Beauty survives. Spock and Kirk, stardate
    unknown.

    Seems rather relevant. Did you choose that one, or is your reader's AI kicking in again? ;)

    LOL.. I chose it. If I can't find a "relevant" quote I won't use it. You're right about the eye candy. I remember when Windows would leave me with 100mgs free for applications. It still takes up too much memory in my opnion. I also spend most of my time in CLI and primarlty just do a lot of BBSing. I have to keep my system browser updated to access my bank and whatever online shopping I need to do. I'd love to access those services via SSH but I don't see that happening anytime soon. As always..when chosing an OS ...it depends on what you want to do with you're PC.

    Heliarc

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Haven BBS. havens.synchro.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Tue May 14 13:13:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sat May 11 2019 12:15 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sat May 11 2019 11:30 am

    When Win95 came out, their desktop looked modern and timeless. Win2000 "flat," and when XP came out, they spruced it up. When comparing XP to Win7 to 10, it looks dated. While it's hard to guess what the next GUI enhancements are going to look like, I'm sure users will be able to tel the difference between the new and "old" product.

    How does the Win2000 interface look flat? It looked basically the same as Win95/98. From Win95 to Windows 7, I think the GUI looks a lot better than Windows 8/8.1/10. And actually, to me, the flat look of Windows 8/8.1/10 lo dated, like something out of the late 70s/early 80s.

    Nightfox


    Maybe we need to define our versions of flat. In the case of Win2k vs XP, XP in comparison had several "visual enhancments" made to make it more
    appealing. Looking back, when I see them, I know it's XP. I run Win10 in
    a basic desktop configuration, and done the same with Win7. The majority of the apps I need are on the desktop on on the taskbar, so I don't have to dig deeper in the start menu in normal operation.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Tue May 14 13:17:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat May 11 2019 12:17 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Denn on Fri May 10 2019 09:08 pm

    there's been rumors about that for several years. i doubt they
    would do that.

    actually that is thier plan for their business versions.

    that's probably a good idea for businesses.

    Perhaps, but it kinda sucks for the consumer. Imagine if companies did that for other types of products - What if you had to pay a yearly fee to continu to use your car, or anything else? The product basically becomes leased/ren rather than owned. I prefer being able to buy something up-front and using for as long as I want.

    Nightfox


    Instead of being an item, it will be a paid service or utility, such as
    phone, internet, cable, electric, gas, or water

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Tue May 14 13:22:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun May 12 2019 08:34 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sun May 12 2019 09:37 am

    Elon Musk has made some comments about not back-porting some of the improvements to older models, saying you should lease and get a new
    car every couple of years to keep up. Getting over car ownership in America will take a while for a lot of people, myself included.

    Some products (like smart TVs, DSLR cameras, etc.) usually tout the feature that you can upgrade their firmware to get bug fixes and sometimes new features. Same with PC motherboards and BIOS flash upgrades. One thing I'v noticed is that usually they'll only get a couple updates though..

    Nightfox


    The automotive industry offers free updates - they call them recall notices

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 14 13:32:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Mon May 13 2019 06:39 am

    MRO wrote to Va7aqd <=-

    was microsoft really being dickheads or were they just running their business like a business when the other guys were idiots that couldn't keep up?

    getting their os installed on computers being sold was a great idea that most of the other guys didn't think of.

    Making OEM agreements = smart business. Threatening to lock out OEMs
    from buying Microsoft products unless they purchased one copy for each system they sold, (because PIRACY) while putting their competitors at
    a disadvantage (since the customer had already purchased Windows,
    regardless of whether they wanted to or not) is a dickhead move.

    i really dont see microsoft as the bad guy; they made money when others didnt. they also stimulated growth when other hardware and software manufacturers wanted to remain stagnant.

    They had competition. They used their market share to kill their competition. I don't know what you mean by hardware remaining
    stagnant, could you be more specific?



    ... Can you hear me?

    It also boils dow to economics - let's say for sake of conversation there was more non-open source operating sytems available. Back in the days of the
    first IBM PC, you had a choice of buying CP/M for $250 or MS-DOS for $90.
    Which OS did you think customers leaned to?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Heliarc on Wed May 15 15:34:00 2019
    On 05-14-19 14:09, Heliarc wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    ... Beauty is transitory. Beauty survives. Spock and Kirk, stardate
    unknown.

    Seems rather relevant. Did you choose that one, or is your reader's AI kicking in again? ;)

    LOL.. I chose it. If I can't find a "relevant" quote I won't use it.

    OK, I just use random ones, but the legendary "reader AI" seems to get it right a surprising amount of time for random selection. :D

    You're right about the eye candy. I remember when Windows would leave
    me with 100mgs free for applications. It still takes up too much memory
    in my opnion. I also spend most of my time in CLI and primarlty just do
    a lot of BBSing. I have to keep my system browser updated to access my bank and whatever online shopping I need to do. I'd love to access
    those services via SSH but I don't see that happening anytime soon. As always..when chosing an OS ...it depends on what you want to do with you're PC.

    I do like a GUI for general use (web browsing, email, etc), but for heavy admin work and automation, I can't pass up a good CLI. I'm always whipping up a script to do something on a Linux box. :)

    And I agree re choice of OS. Use the right tool for the job. That's why all my servers, including the BBSs run Linux (without a GUI), and why I run both Windows and Linux on desktops. Email is definitely better on Linux, because that avoids having an antivirus scanning large IMAP stores. Some applications work better on Windows, and application driven upgrades are also smoother on Windows, while Linux requires the distribution maintainer to keep packages up to date, which doesn't track applications like Firefox well.


    ... This tagline is identical to the one you are reading.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed May 15 00:57:21 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Va7aqd on Tue May 14 2019 10:16 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Denn on Mon May 13 2019 10:59 pm

    there was an issue with the media player in europe, too.
    just stupid stuff that the courts didnt fully understand.

    Yeah, I don't think the courts fully understand computer stuff either. But they're also just trying to watch out for consumer rights.


    with the metallica situation they got the courts to believe that this guy was doing the equivelant of making bootlegs and selling them on the street.

    if you wanted zuckerdouche get interviewed by congress, you see that they really were not prepared nor did they understand how facebook or the internet works. they needed a guide for questioning, i think.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dream Master on Wed May 15 00:59:58 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dream Master to Denn on Tue May 14 2019 03:10 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to MRO on Thu May 09 2019 09:39 am

    My point is that support for windows 7 is ending and I hate window's 10
    Linux and wine for linux has come a long way recently and I can run most of my windows programs in wine or there are alternatetive programs for linux that I use.

    Why do you hate Windows 10? From a stability perspective, it is rock solid. Yes, Microsoft is having a grand time keeping it up to date, but it is a good operating system.


    i really like how you can attach your reg code to your email address. it makes reinstalling so easy. the driver support is great, too. my last gfs computer didnt run well until windows 10 came along.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Wed May 15 01:01:47 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue May 14 2019 06:58 pm

    I started watching the FX show "What We Do In The Shadows." A couple of weeks of watching it, and the Youtube app on my phone started suggesting that I watch a recording of the full theme song, along with other songs by the same artist... one that I had never heard of before and had never searched for.


    yeah, they are watching.

    oh did you see the movie? it's awesome.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Vk3jed on Tue May 14 23:39:30 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Heliarc on Wed May 15 2019 11:34 am

    smoother on Windows, while Linux requires the distribution maintainer to keep packages up to date, which doesn't track
    applications like Firefox well.

    Can't blame Linux for that, that's completely dependent on the distribution. There's numerous where things like Firefox would
    definitely be right up to date, while others would use ESR and have the same version pretty much through the lifetime of the distro
    version.

    And then you can always install Firefox manually which should keep itself up to date like any "smart" Windoze application too.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Tue May 14 10:57:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to Va7aqd <=-

    I thought it was a little odd when they basically dropped the
    anti-trust case and didn't split up Microsoft like some were proposing.
    I don't remember if the anti-trust case was totally dropped or if they did take some actions against Microsoft?

    It felt like the judge took a dive for Microsoft - making public
    statements regarding the trial while in mid-trial; didn't the judge
    rule to break up Microsoft and lost in appeals due to the interviews
    he gave during the trial?


    ... Have you ever asked a question you weren't supposed to ask?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Hustler on Tue May 14 11:00:00 2019
    Hustler wrote to Denn <=-

    Yea and they won. Last time I checked Windows still comes with a
    built in browser. It's called "Edge".


    Hit the start menu in Windows 10 and type "iexplore". Internet
    Explorer is still hanging in there.

    I think every company has some old, decrepit, poorly coded internal
    site that "requires" IE, or Firefox 2, or something like that. It's
    usually a core component of getting paid, taking time off, or
    performing some function vital to the employee.




    ... Can you hear me?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Tue May 14 11:02:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to Va7aqd <=-

    Other companies could have made deals to have their OS installed on OEM PCs, and perhaps should have. I don't really see much of a problem
    with that. I thought IBM should have made more deals to get OS/2 installed on OEM PCs, but it was their decision not to (for whatever reason they had).

    Just guessing here, but some elements of IBM probably didn't want to
    dilute sales of IBM-branded PCs. In companies that size it's hard for
    the left hand to know what the right hand is doing, or to take a loss
    for the greater win.



    ... Do you know where you are?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Wed May 15 12:28:00 2019
    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    It also boils dow to economics - let's say for sake of conversation
    there was more non-open source operating sytems available. Back in the days of the first IBM PC, you had a choice of buying CP/M for $250 or MS-DOS for $90. Which OS did you think customers leaned to?

    Yeah, but the minds behind CP/M were never the most shrewd business
    minds out there - I get the feeling they were milking their
    established base for all they could instead of trying to expand their
    market and their product.

    They'd taken CP/M about as far as it could have gone.

    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Wed May 15 14:28:55 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue May 14 2019 09:17 am

    Instead of being an item, it will be a paid service or utility, such as phone, internet, cable, electric, gas, or water

    That seems a bit artificial. IMO, software that's already installed on a person's PC shouldn't have to work like that. It seems like a way of getting around innovating by improving the product.. But it's not like they have to keep doing work or adding capacity for people to be able to use the software on their own PC. Online hosted software, I suppose I could see them charging a recurring fee to keep using it, but even then, I'd rather just install it locally on my PC and use it on my own PC.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Wed May 15 14:29:52 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue May 14 2019 09:22 am

    The automotive industry offers free updates - they call them recall notices

    Eh, I think recalls are more for fixing serious defects rather than providing feature updates, etc.. And I believe they're required by law to fix defects that could cause serious harm to the consumer or affect the operation of the product.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wed May 15 14:30:46 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue May 14 2019 08:57 pm

    with the metallica situation they got the courts to believe that this guy was doing the equivelant of making bootlegs and selling them on the street.

    I'm not familiar with this "metallica situation"..

    if you wanted zuckerdouche get interviewed by congress, you see that they really were not prepared nor did they understand how facebook or the internet works. they needed a guide for questioning, i think.

    What is a zuckerdouche?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 15 14:31:21 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue May 14 2019 06:57 am

    It felt like the judge took a dive for Microsoft - making public statements regarding the trial while in mid-trial; didn't the judge
    rule to break up Microsoft and lost in appeals due to the interviews
    he gave during the trial?

    I don't remember..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 15 14:33:41 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue May 14 2019 07:02 am

    Other companies could have made deals to have their OS installed on
    OEM PCs, and perhaps should have. I don't really see much of a
    problem with that. I thought IBM should have made more deals to get
    OS/2 installed on OEM PCs, but it was their decision not to (for
    whatever reason they had).

    Just guessing here, but some elements of IBM probably didn't want to dilute sales of IBM-branded PCs. In companies that size it's hard for
    the left hand to know what the right hand is doing, or to take a loss
    for the greater win.

    I suppose that's true. They didn't seem to have a problem selling OS/2 to anyone who wanted to use it.. If IBM wanted to only have OS/2 on IBM PCs, they could have done what Apple has done and have the OS check to make sure it's running on one of their own computers.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 15 14:44:56 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hustler on Tue May 14 2019 07:00 am

    I think every company has some old, decrepit, poorly coded internal
    site that "requires" IE, or Firefox 2, or something like that. It's usually a core component of getting paid, taking time off, or
    performing some function vital to the employee.

    Yep. And our team where I work is using an online tool for managing test cases (of all things) which requires Internet Explorer..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 15 14:18:48 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue May 14 2019 06:57 am

    It felt like the judge took a dive for Microsoft - making public
    statements regarding the trial while in mid-trial; didn't the judge
    rule to break up Microsoft and lost in appeals due to the interviews
    he gave during the trial?

    Yup... Can't interfere with capitalism!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Marisag@VERT/AMIGAC to Nightfox on Wed May 15 18:18:42 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed May 15 2019 10:30:46

    I'm not familiar with this "metallica situation"..

    Back when filesharing was new Metalica actively went after people sharing their songs, losing a lot of fans...

    Marisa
    --- https://AmigaCity.xyz - Portal for the Amiga - More than 3,500 free DLs
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Wed May 15 19:15:46 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 15 2019 10:33 am

    I suppose that's true. They didn't seem to have a problem selling OS/2 to anyone who wanted to use it.. If IBM wanted to only have OS/2 on IBM PCs, they could have done what Apple has done and have the OS check to make sure it's running on one of their own computers.

    I worked in an OS/2 shop, and we couldn't get OS/2 to install on *my* PC, the guy responsible for rolling it out to the rest of the company!

    IBM sent over a team of people to figure out what was happening. I had an IBM PS/2 model 80 (386DX/25, 8 mb RAM, 70 meg ESDI drive). I had 2 megs on the motherboard and 6 megs on an IBM-branded external memory card. It turned out that OS/2 only saw the memory on board, unless you waited until you heard the beep to quickly insert the first floppy. Go figure.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dumas Walker on Wed May 15 23:15:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue May 14 2019 06:58 pm

    i opened up facebook and in the amazon targetted ads, there were the exact things i was talking about. this has happened several times. i never did search for those things on my phone or on amazon before.

    I started watching the FX show "What We Do In The Shadows." A couple of weeks of watching it, and the Youtube app on my phone started suggesting that I watch a recording of the full theme song, along with other songs by the same artist... one that I had never heard of before and had never searched for.


    If you love the series, track down the movie it's based on. You'll recognize two vampires from the tribunal.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 15 23:19:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hustler on Tue May 14 2019 07:00 am

    Hustler wrote to Denn <=-

    Yea and they won. Last time I checked Windows still comes with a built in browser. It's called "Edge".


    Hit the start menu in Windows 10 and type "iexplore". Internet
    Explorer is still hanging in there.

    I think every company has some old, decrepit, poorly coded internal
    site that "requires" IE, or Firefox 2, or something like that. It's
    usually a core component of getting paid, taking time off, or
    performing some function vital to the employee.




    ... Can you hear me?

    That was spot on with the last place I worked at. Most of the company
    intranet didn't cooperate with Edge

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Marisag on Thu May 16 01:48:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Marisag to Nightfox on Wed May 15 2019 02:18 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed May 15 2019 10:30:46

    I'm not familiar with this "metallica situation"..

    Back when filesharing was new Metalica actively went after people sharing their songs, losing a lot of fans...


    they went after napster. also went after a guy who created rims that he called metallica rims. he never heard of metallica.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Wed May 15 23:45:00 2019
    I started watching the FX show "What We Do In The Shadows." A couple of

    oh did you see the movie? it's awesome.

    No, I was not originally aware there was one until another friend mentioned
    it last week. Is it also in the "mockumentary" style that the TV show is?

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ Ensign Walnut approaches Dr. Crusher with caution....
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DREAM MASTER on Thu May 16 00:20:00 2019
    Why do you hate Windows 10? From a stability perspective, it is rock solid. >Yes, Microsoft is having a grand time keeping it up to date, but it is a good >operating system.

    I do not care for the interface. If they would have allowed the user to
    use the "pre-Windows 8" interface and not be forced into the interface I thought they were getting rid of because no one liked Win 8, I probably
    would not care.

    As it is, I am hoping I retire before they upgrade my work machine from Win
    7 to 10.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ Think of it as evolution in action.
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thu May 16 01:48:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Wed May 15 2019 10:28 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue May 14 2019 09:17 am

    Instead of being an item, it will be a paid service or utility, such as phone, internet, cable, electric, gas, or water

    That seems a bit artificial. IMO, software that's already installed on a person's PC shouldn't have to work like that. It seems like a way of gettin around innovating by improving the product.. But it's not like they have to keep doing work or adding capacity for people to be able to use the software their own PC. Online hosted software, I suppose I could see them charging a recurring fee to keep using it, but even then, I'd rather just install it locally on my PC and use it on my own PC.

    Nightfox


    I used to support an engineering department which had software that required calling out to a license server to operate. It was pretty much a subscription model with regards to how it worked. The department had a defined amount
    of seats, and each time a copy was installed or removed, the software vendor had to be notified to authorize that copy to that workstation. Neat part was features could be turned on and off if needed through the license manager, so if you needed a view only seat, you could turn off the other editing features and save money.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Marisag on Thu May 16 01:58:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Marisag to Nightfox on Wed May 15 2019 02:18 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed May 15 2019 10:30:46

    I'm not familiar with this "metallica situation"..

    Back when filesharing was new Metalica actively went after people sharing th songs, losing a lot of fans...

    Marisa

    Another issue Metallica had was a song was leaked out that they weren't happy about the quality of it. When the movie Twister was being filmed, they were contacted about providing a song for the movie soundtrack. They wrote a
    song that sucked, realized they didn't want it released, then some studio flunky downloads it without their permission. Fans start reviewing it,
    saying it sucks, then they're wishing they could just say "well, you don't say ? maybe that's why we didn't release it with our blessing?"

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Marisag@VERT/AMIGAC to MRO on Thu May 16 15:04:01 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Marisag on Wed May 15 2019 21:48:00

    The Wierd Al song "Don't download this song" parodies this situation. Specificly mentioning Lars Ulrich of Metalica ;)

    Marisa
    --- https://AmigaCity.xyz - Portal for the Amiga - More than 3,500 free DLs
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    ■ Synchronet ■ Amiga City - The BBS for the Amiga - more than 3,500+ files
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dumas Walker on Thu May 16 15:26:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Wed May 15 2019 07:45 pm

    I started watching the FX show "What We Do In The Shadows." A couple o

    oh did you see the movie? it's awesome.

    No, I was not originally aware there was one until another friend mentioned it last week. Is it also in the "mockumentary" style that the TV show is?


    Yes, it is in the mockumentary style. The executive producers of the TV show star in the movie (Count Viago and Vladislav the Poker,) seen during vampire tribunal

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Marisag on Thu May 16 16:34:46 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Marisag to Nightfox on Wed May 15 2019 02:18 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed May 15 2019 10:30:46

    I'm not familiar with this "metallica situation"..

    Back when filesharing was new Metalica actively went after people sharing their songs, losing a lot of fans...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS6udST6lbE

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #6:
    Synchronet version 3 for Linux and FreeBSD development began in 2001.
    Norco, CA WX: 61.3°F, 95.0% humidity, 4 mph N wind, 0.12 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Thu May 16 23:52:47 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Wed May 15 2019 07:45 pm

    I started watching the FX show "What We Do In The Shadows." A couple of

    oh did you see the movie? it's awesome.

    No, I was not originally aware there was one until another friend mentioned it last week. Is it also in the "mockumentary" style that the TV show is?




    just watch it. it's awesome.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Thu May 16 23:57:29 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Marisag on Wed May 15 2019 09:58 pm

    they were contacted about providing a song for the movie soundtrack. They wrote a
    song that sucked, realized they didn't want it released, then some studio flunky downloads it without their permission. Fans start reviewing it, saying it sucks, then they're wishing they could just say "well, you don't say ? maybe that's why we didn't release it with our blessing?"




    every song they wrote from then on sucked bad. watch that some kind of monster documentary. they act like such big babies.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Fri May 17 00:03:44 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to Marisag on Thu May 16 2019 12:34 pm

    Back when filesharing was new Metalica actively went after people sharing their songs, losing a lot of fans...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS6udST6lbE

    digital man


    i liked it when the napster guy was on mtv awards wearing a metallica shirt. and he says ' like my shirt? i borrowed it from a friend' and they zoomed in on lars.

    i am watching james on youtube talking to joe rogan and making it seem like all the artists were backing them up.

    anyways, studies have shown that people who 'steal' music generally spend money on the cds and the merch.

    metallica just didnt get it.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Digital Man on Fri May 17 02:13:25 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to Marisag on Thu May 16 2019 12:34 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS6udST6lbE


    BEER GOOD! FIRE BAD! FIRE BAAAAD!

    DaiTengu

    ... 42? -- 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Denn on Fri May 17 07:11:48 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Denn to Badopcode on Sun May 12 2019 02:18 pm

    Microsofts intrest in Linux is purely self serving.
    Microsoft hates wine they certainly have'nt contributed to the wine project.
    also I could've sworn I read an article concerning Microsofts abuse of the
    Yes and the year was 2008. I'm not saying they should be absolved for past transgressions. Just that things change over time. Attitudes change.
    As far as self serving... uhmm YES. That is what everyone is doing in the OSS scene. Every PR i've ever submitted was something I wanted out of the project.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Vk3jed on Fri May 17 07:18:03 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Mon May 13 2019 09:09 am

    I use only Linux for my server tasks. For desktop, I like a mix of Windows and Linux. The new Linux subsystem in Windows 10 might be a good fit for me. Definitely something I want to try. I would definitely be running an X server, so I can use Linux GUI apps on the Windows desktop.

    I have a SuSE WSL on my Win10 dev rig with a X server I bought on the apps store for like 5 bucks. Didn't HAVE to buy it but it was 0 tinkering and works flawless. I run Kate and Code Blocks in rootless mode from the WSL. Works damn near on-the-metal speeds. Hard press to tell the difference.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Va7aqd on Fri May 17 07:26:57 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to MRO on Sun May 12 2019 05:56 pm

    dont know about you, but microsoft never fucked me up the butt.
    If you ever bought a PC that had Windows pre-installed, you were getting exactly that. You may have been happy to have that, but
    let's not beat around the issue, that's exactly what you got.

    And the OSS users show their support for all their "FREE" software by fucking the devs up the butt instead. If you haven't contributed money or code when you could have you are fucking the devs up the butt.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Fri May 17 07:29:32 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Badopcode on Mon May 13 2019 09:39 am

    It's cool that Microsoft is supporting Linux more these days, but I think I'll have to wait and see if I really trust them or not. Microsoft has sued some companies over supposed patent violations related to using Linux or Linux-based software. Supposedly Microsoft has eased up on that, but we'll see where that goes.
    My thoughts exactly. Fanatism one way or the other is just stupid.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Fri May 17 07:37:07 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Denn on Mon May 13 2019 10:05 am

    Microsoft hates wine they certainly have'nt contributed to the wine project. also I could've sworn I read an article concerning Microsofts
    Yep. And regarding Wine, I've always heard they've had to reverse-engineer the Windows APIs, and that always has its problems.

    Well Microsoft contributed a bunch of information on Win32 API. But i've had buddies that were in Wine and ReactOS and neither one would have any use of MS source code and have told people that talk shit about having the code that they don't want or need it. They need documentation and experimenting. They want to emulate how Windows works not BE Windows. Think about how DOSBox runs games faster than if you setup and run QEMU and run MS-DOS. The real thing isn't necessarily the best thing.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Fri May 17 07:39:22 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon May 13 2019 10:08 am

    You haven't seen their source code, have you?
    source code for what
    I'm guessing he means Windows? Or any of Microsoft's software?
    has to be for Windows. If not I could whip out some assembler they gave out for initalizing mice in DOS back in the late 80's.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Fri May 17 07:52:58 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Va7aqd on Mon May 13 2019 12:51 pm

    and perhaps should have. I don't really see much of a problem with that. I thought IBM should have made more deals to get OS/2 installed on OEM PCs,

    Well DOS6/Win3 was a different ball game than WinNT or OS/2. But actually IBM did have PC DOS which was actually pretty popular. In the home user it was MS DOS or DR DOS. In the business world it was MS DOS or PC DOS.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Badopcode on Fri May 17 13:06:32 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Denn on Fri May 17 2019 03:11 am

    Microsofts intrest in Linux is purely self serving.
    Microsoft hates wine they certainly have'nt contributed to the wine project.
    also I could've sworn I read an article concerning Microsofts abuse of the
    Yes and the year was 2008. I'm not saying they should be absolved for past transgressions. Just that things change over time.
    Attitudes change.

    It's not like they've become trustworthy, however. I'm still baffled by how many people put their eggs in to the "we can't really
    be sure" basket (that is MS software). Secure boot seems to have been another attempt at hindering competition on PC hardware,
    since 2008.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Badopcode on Fri May 17 13:14:21 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Va7aqd on Fri May 17 2019 03:26 am

    And the OSS users show their support for all their "FREE" software by fucking the devs up the butt instead. If you haven't
    contributed money or code when you could have you are fucking the devs up the butt.

    Users who haven't contributed back to a project are doing no such thing. That's an extremely poor attitude.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Fri May 17 17:04:56 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Wed May 15 2019 09:48 pm

    I used to support an engineering department which had software that required calling out to a license server to operate. It was pretty much a subscription model with regards to how it worked. The department had a defined amount of seats, and each time a copy was installed or removed, the software vendor had to be notified to authorize that copy to that workstation. Neat part was features could be turned on and off if needed through the license manager, so if you needed a view only seat, you could turn off the other editing features and save money.

    What if there was no internet connection, or the internet service was interrupted? Would you still be able to use the software?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Fri May 17 17:07:21 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Nightfox on Fri May 17 2019 03:52 am

    and perhaps should have. I don't really see much of a problem with
    that. I thought IBM should have made more deals to get OS/2 installed
    on OEM PCs,

    Well DOS6/Win3 was a different ball game than WinNT or OS/2. But actually IBM did have PC DOS which was actually pretty popular. In the home user it was MS DOS or DR DOS. In the business world it was MS DOS or PC DOS.

    I had the impression that different DOS operating systems were pre-installed on OEM computers and didn't have the same restrictions that Microsoft put on Windows for OEMs. I had also seen special modified versions of MS-DOS for certain OEMs - I seem to remember a special Compaq MS-DOS 3.31.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dumas Walker on Fri May 17 17:10:47 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dumas Walker to DREAM MASTER on Wed May 15 2019 08:20 pm

    I do not care for the interface. If they would have allowed the user to use the "pre-Windows 8" interface and not be forced into the interface I thought they were getting rid of because no one liked Win 8, I probably would not care.

    The interface nobody liked in Win8 was mainly the Windows 'Metro' interface that it booted into by default rather than the desktop mode, as well as the lack of the classic Start menu. Microsoft has rectified both of those issues in Windows 10 by having it boot into the desktop mode by default (again) and adding more of a classic Start menu back into the OS. But overall I think the GUI still looks flat and mono-tone and looks worse than previous (pre-8) versions of Windows.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Marisag on Fri May 17 17:11:33 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Marisag to MRO on Thu May 16 2019 11:04 am

    The Wierd Al song "Don't download this song" parodies this situation. Specificly mentioning Lars Ulrich of Metalica ;)

    I know this has been said before, but it's good to quote the part of the message you're replying to so it's easier to follow the conversation. What is "this situation" that you're referring to?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Fri May 17 17:12:49 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Thu May 16 2019 08:03 pm

    metallica just didnt get it.

    I've never really been into Metallica anyway.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Badopcode on Fri May 17 20:00:44 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Nightfox on Fri May 17 2019 03:37 am

    Well Microsoft contributed a bunch of information on Win32 API. But i've had buddies that were in Wine and ReactOS and neither one would have any use DOSBox runs games faster than if you setup and run QEMU and run MS-DOS. The real thing isn't necessarily the best thing.


    but the real thing is better when you are talking wine and reactos
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Va7aqd on Sat May 18 05:51:10 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to Badopcode on Fri May 17 2019 09:14 am

    And the OSS users show their support for all their "FREE" software by fucking the devs up the butt instead. If you haven't
    contributed money or code when you could have you are fucking the devs up the butt.
    Users who haven't contributed back to a project are doing no such thing.

    I have no attitude towards it. It's just the reality. If it wasn't for all the horrible evil companies like IBM, Novell, Microsoft, Facebook, etc there wouldn't be much quality open source out there. The ones who whine, cry and throw fits over the participation of these companies typical don't contribute crap. While they think their fanatism is like some sort of monetary currency that devs can take to the bank and pay their bills with. They will generate 50 trouble tickets and than throw a fit when a ticket coming from a sponsor goes before them.
    Don't get me wrong... there is some really good users out there. They contribute by providing what they can. Tech support, documentation, tutorials. But there is a lot of bottom feeders who do nothing but try to run off all your sponsors because all we need in this world is the warm fuzzies they give us.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Sat May 18 06:06:54 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Badopcode on Fri May 17 2019 01:07 pm

    I had the impression that different DOS operating systems were pre-installed on OEM computers and didn't have the same restrictions that Microsoft put on Windows for OEMs. I had also seen special modified versions of MS-DOS for certain OEMs - I seem to remember a special Compaq MS-DOS 3.31.

    Well... the part that makes everything confusing was the divorce settlement that IBM and MS had. :) So IBM had access to all the Win 3.x API down to code. While Microsoft had the OS/2 kernel. Which NT used until Windows XP... I think.
    But IBM on their hardware could not charge less for PC DOS than MS DOS on their PC's. BUT OS/2 and NT had no such rules. PC DOS was rock solid stable with Win 3.11.
    BUT ya there was Compaq, Gateway and a few others that had Rebranded OEMS. Actually even to this day Windows 10 can be OEM branded. :) If your a little shop building and selling PC's you have full access to make your own distros from a OEM license that includes all the drivers and preinstall software in the installer. Think it was called Jet Streaming or some junk. But ya there is no rules on the media to distribute DOS or Windows.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to MRO on Sat May 18 06:16:18 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Badopcode on Fri May 17 2019 04:00 pm

    use DOSBox runs games faster than if you setup and run QEMU and run
    but the real thing is better when you are talking wine and reactos

    A bit ambigious but okay. Yes real works more like real than emulated. USUALLY. There are a lot of things in emulated you can compensate for or even ignore because your not working in the same constraints. But the less you emulate the better you can guaranty it will work like the original.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Badopcode on Sat May 18 14:45:20 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to MRO on Sat May 18 2019 02:16 am

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Badopcode on Fri May 17 2019 04:00 pm

    use DOSBox runs games faster than if you setup and run QEMU and run
    but the real thing is better when you are talking wine and reactos

    A bit ambigious but okay. Yes real works more like real than emulated. USUALLY. There are a lot of things in emulated you can compensate for or even ignore because your not working in the same constraints. But the less you emulate the better you can guaranty it will work like the original.



    Let me be less ambiguous: wine and reactos are shit compared to the real thing. ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Badopcode on Sat May 18 15:56:18 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Va7aqd on Sat May 18 2019 01:51 am

    And the OSS users show their support for all their "FREE" software by fucking the devs up the butt instead. If you
    haven't
    contributed money or code when you could have you are fucking the devs up the butt.
    Users who haven't contributed back to a project are doing no such thing.

    I have no attitude towards it.

    Baloney. You have the attitude of an angry dev. Unless you're writing code that has a license that says "By using this software you
    will volunteer 25 hours per month to doing good work on this project.", then the users are not part of the project and who are you
    to expect them to be contributing back? Either develop or not, but if you have expectations from the user you're lost before you
    even begin.

    That's not to say users shouldn't just be decent people - whining, making expectations of the devs (in an open source project),
    etc., is just as screwy as the other way around.

    If it wasn't for all the horrible evil companies like IBM, Novell, Microsoft, Facebook, etc there wouldn't be much quality open source out there. The ones who whine, cry and throw fits over the
    participation of these companies typical don't contribute crap.

    So your logic is that if you complain about Facebook you should expect fewer open source projects? Uh... no. They may generate
    some open source, but who cares? The world doesn't need that crap just for the few projects they work on.

    Don't get me wrong... there is some really good users out there. They contribute by providing what they can. Tech support,
    documentation, tutorials. But there is a lot of bottom feeders who do nothing but try to run off all your sponsors because all
    we need in this world is the warm fuzzies they give us.

    Good user != providing to the project. A user != dev! FFS. Either do your coding or not but don't bitch about the user base for
    not doing your work.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to MRO on Sun May 19 01:31:52 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Badopcode on Sat May 18 2019 10:45 am

    A bit ambigious but okay. Yes real works more like real than
    emulated. USUALLY. There are a lot of things in emulated you can
    compensate for or even ignore because your not working in the same
    constraints. But the less you emulate the better you can guaranty it
    will work like the original.



    Let me be less ambiguous: wine and reactos are shit compared to the real thing.

    I don't know much about reactos but as for wine I use it all the time.
    I can run most windows based programs with wine installed on Ubuntu 14.04 there is a growing dis satifaction of windows.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Badopcode on Sun May 19 17:44:00 2019
    On 05-17-19 03:18, Badopcode wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/DHBBS
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to MRO on Mon May 13 2019 09:09 am

    I use only Linux for my server tasks. For desktop, I like a mix of Windows and Linux. The new Linux subsystem in Windows 10 might be a good fit for me. Definitely something I want to try. I would definitely be running an X server, so I can use Linux GUI apps on the Windows desktop.

    I have a SuSE WSL on my Win10 dev rig with a X server I bought on the
    apps store for like 5 bucks. Didn't HAVE to buy it but it was 0
    tinkering and works flawless. I run Kate and Code Blocks in rootless
    mode from the WSL. Works damn near on-the-metal speeds. Hard press to tell the difference.

    Sounds pretty cool! :) And yes, if you have the network bandwidth, X is pretty fast across the network.


    ... It's all more or less the same.. but it's all different now.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Va7aqd on Sat May 18 23:20:25 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to Badopcode on Sat May 18 2019 11:56 am

    And the OSS users show their support for all their "FREE" software
    by fucking the devs up the butt instead. If you haven't
    by fucking the devs up the butt instead. If you haven't
    contributed money or code when you could have you are fucking the
    devs up the butt.
    I have no attitude towards it.
    Baloney. You have the attitude of an angry dev. Unless you're writing code that has a license that says "By using this software you will volunteer 25 hours per month to doing good work on this project.", then the users are not part of the project and who are you to expect them to be contributing back? Either develop or not, but if you have expectations from the user you're lost before you even begin.
    Been writing OSS for 30 years. No attitude. It is what it is.
    I'm not talking timeclocks. I'm talking about being part of a community instead of ramsacker. Those who only join the community when THEY have a problem they want solved. They have no qualms about exploiting the contributors because it's all "free." And all the helpful users were just dying to help them. If you are using software that was built for a community but won't contribute in any fashion... ya you're a fucking dick. The world is full of dickheads. No magic is going to change it either. I think we all just hope we don't get many of the dickheads, but a lot of us cringe when we hear dickheads promoting our software as "FREE!" Like I said it's usually the same dickheads who will run off your sponsors too.

    tutorials. But there is a lot of bottom feeders who do nothing but try
    to run off all your sponsors because all we need in this world is the
    warm fuzzies they give us.
    Good user != providing to the project. A user != dev! FFS. Either do your coding or not but don't bitch about the user base for not doing your work.
    Again your missing the point. I sense guilty conscious playing here. If I made you think... than it's worth that I said it.
    What you should evaluate is how much does project X mean to your life? If you truly are fanatical about it to spread it word of mouth about how awesome it is... how much have you given back to keep it going? What gets old... and this
    is a big one, people using your software for a business and making their living... a very GOOD living using your efforts and they won't flip you a dollar your way when everything they have was because of you. Same individuals will make it rain for a Twitch whore... but help the people that helped them. NOPE. AND to be perfectly clear... some of the WORST dickheads out there is not the users it is other developers. In fact the non-developers tend to contribute without really thinking about it. Like everyone helping the guy with DDNS here.
    I have watched a dickhead dev exploit the crap out of a Git repo that offered a private repo to their OSS community accounts (basically so you can have a private fork before releases) Dude uploaded a commericial closed source project that he was building. It was a 3D game so we are talking GIGS of resources. No problem what so ever... IT WAS FREE! Oh he also was bragging about how much money he has too.
    So ... that particular group of dickheads... I do hope something bad happens to them. They out right steal from the open source community.

    If there is something to take away from this...
    I really want everyone here to really think and appreciate all the people of Synchronet who contribute their time and in many cases their own money keeping this project going. Maybe if you got a extra bit of coins go check out http://wiki.syncho.net/donate and show your support. I know if someone even sends me a $1 it really means something to me. Well just like when users are helping other users. Nothing is as depressing and hollow as when your left dealing with a 1000 dickheads who demand your time but your time is worth NOTHING to them. It's all "FREE" and we are bad people for even thinking our time means anything to anyone.

    Sorry for the long message but watching people bash on Microsoft and talk up Linux, when Microsoft is a contributing factor why we got some awesome new kernel builds rolled out really ... well ... it was just too much. Talking crap about hidden agenda's and 10 year long conspiracy theories about what MS contributed... I want to ask these holier-than-thou users, what exactly did they contribute? Maybe than we can piece together why any of us should care about the secret agenda plans behind MS's contributions.

    PS: If your a dickhead and you know your are a dickhead... you can contribute to OSS just by keeping your mouth shut and leave the contributing members of the community alone! XD God i'm getting old and contankerous.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Vk3jed on Sun May 19 08:55:53 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Badopcode on Sun May 19 2019 01:44 pm

    I have a SuSE WSL on my Win10 dev rig with a X server I bought on
    Sounds pretty cool! :) And yes, if you have the network bandwidth, X is pretty fast across the network.

    nah i'm running from a local running WSL. Did a SuSE install from the MS store and than installed the linux applications via RPM. So by default X software will use the loopback adapter and when it does it hits the X server running in Windows. I suppose I could do the X server in the Linux subsystem directly but it is just cooler in my opinion to run linux apps on Windows like it's just another Windows application.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Dan Clough@VERT/PALANT to Denn on Sun May 19 13:18:00 2019
    Denn wrote to MRO <=-

    Let me be less ambiguous: wine and reactos are shit compared to the real thing.

    I don't know much about reactos but as for wine I use it all the time.
    I can run most windows based programs with wine installed on
    Ubuntu 14.04 there is a growing dis satifaction of windows.

    But..... why do that? Are there not suitable Linux replacements
    for the Windoze apps that you feel the need to run?

    Also, might be time to update that Ubuntu installation... ;-)



    ... AAcckk!! II''mm iinn hhaallff dduupplleexx
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dan Clough@VERT/PALANT to Badopcode on Sun May 19 13:26:00 2019
    Badopcode wrote to Va7aqd <=-

    <SNIP a bunch of crazed ranting>

    PS: If your a dickhead and you know your are a dickhead... you
    can contribute to OSS just by keeping your mouth shut and leave
    the contributing members of the community alone! XD God i'm
    getting old and contankerous.

    Yeah, you got your last sentence correct, at least. Jeeeeeezzz.

    Not even sure what has offended you so greatly. If you want
    somebody to contribute to a software project you work on, then say
    so. Put a note in the documentation pointing to a paypal link or
    something. Make it "shareware" with added features if registered.
    Whatever you think is right. But to generally criticize all users
    for not contributing to OSS projects doesn't make much sense to
    me. I'm not a "dickhead".

    What software do you publish that you'd like contributions for,
    anyway?


    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Badopcode on Sun May 19 14:00:32 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Va7aqd on Sat May 18 2019 07:20 pm

    Been writing OSS for 30 years. No attitude. It is what it is.
    Again your missing the point. I sense guilty conscious playing here. If I made you think... than it's worth that I said it.

    On behalf of all decent human beings who may or may not contribute to your projects, get over yourself, you angry, angry, ignorant
    asshat. You probably should have followed another calling.

    Sorry for the long message but watching people bash on Microsoft and talk up Linux, when Microsoft is a contributing factor why
    we got some awesome new kernel builds rolled out really ... well ... it was just too much. Talking crap about hidden agenda's
    and 10 year long conspiracy theories about what MS contributed... I want to ask these holier-than-thou users, what exactly did
    they contribute? Maybe than we can piece together why any of us should care about the secret agenda plans behind MS's
    contributions.

    You managed to find your way back to the point, did you? It must be nice to live in a world where MS has furnished your life and
    turned you in to such a sensitive person. MS has been a 5,000 lb piece of shit gorilla at many points along the way, and if anyone
    doubts any purist intentions of theirs, they *paid* for those doubts.

    However, perhaps you should work hard at this point - someone being critical of M$ isn't something you should take personally, to
    the tune of claiming happens to fuck devs up the ass, or everyone's a dickhead for saying so. You sound like you should be locked
    up in an institution.

    PS: If your a dickhead and you know your are a dickhead...

    It's Y O U apostrophe R E.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Dan Clough@VERT/PALANT to Badopcode on Sun May 19 16:07:00 2019
    Badopcode wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    nah i'm running from a local running WSL. Did a SuSE install from
    the MS store and than installed the linux applications via RPM.
    So by default X software will use the loopback adapter and when
    it does it hits the X server running in Windows. I suppose I
    could do the X server in the Linux subsystem directly but it is
    just cooler in my opinion to run linux apps on Windows like it's
    just another Windows application.

    It's even cooler to run Linux apps in........ Linux! ;-)



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Dan Clough on Mon May 20 04:00:24 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dan Clough to Denn on Sun May 19 2019 09:18 am

    I don't know much about reactos but as for wine I use it all the
    time. I can run most windows based programs with wine installed on
    Ubuntu 14.04 there is a growing dis satifaction of windows.

    But..... why do that? Are there not suitable Linux replacements
    for the Windoze apps that you feel the need to run?

    For many programs like office I use libre etc.. but there are game servers I run that are windows games but actually run better in Linux and wine.
    Most windows programs I have tested work well with wine, I don't run them in Linux as I still run a few windows machines, my main point is that Linux and wine can help windows users make the leap to linux if they want to.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Va7aqd on Mon May 20 07:22:25 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to Badopcode on Sun May 19 2019 10:00 am

    Been writing OSS for 30 years. No attitude. It is what it is.
    Again your missing the point. I sense guilty conscious playing here.
    If I made you think... than it's worth that I said it.
    On behalf of all decent human beings who may or may not contribute to your projects, get over yourself, you angry, angry, ignorant asshat. You probably should have followed another calling.

    Man you are raged. First of all. I'm not actively working on any one project. Just roaming dev contributing bug fixes and money to other people's projects. I do have some libraries but they are just small things I cut loose with MIT license and they don't require much.
    Who you're trying to portray is not me. Even in the slightest.

    You managed to find your way back to the point, did you? It must be nice to live in a world where MS has furnished your life and turned you in to such a sensitive person. MS has been a 5,000 lb piece of shit gorilla at many points along the way, and if anyone doubts any purist intentions of theirs, they *paid* for those doubts.

    Huh? I guess your trying to discredit me as a MS croony dev. Again not me. Spent most of my time in the Linux / *BSD world. When MS was being a bunch of shit heads I was right there screaming fuck you MS!
    I doubt anyone warrants how much angst you have...at me or is it MS? I'm going to keep my life less stressed out and just be angry at things that are happening in the here and now. Someone wants to turn over a leaf ... i'll give them a shot.

    However, perhaps you should work hard at this point - someone being critical of M$ isn't something you should take personally, to the tune of claiming happens to fuck devs up the ass, or everyone's a dickhead for

    I didn't take anything personal. Not even taking your rage personally.
    But ya... For example a guy doesn't tip at the sushi bar and encourages others to not tip either. That guy is a prick. Most people are not going to take it personal that a dude didn't tip them. It's not obligatory after all. Just write it off as the dude is a dick and go on with your day.

    saying so. You sound like you should be locked up in an institution.

    There is probably some truth to this. But man you sound pretty stressed out.

    PS: If your a dickhead and you know your are a dickhead...
    It's Y O U apostrophe R E.

    OH NOES! Been foiled by the "they're" Alright disregard everything I said. I'm officially a retard. Nothing I said has any merit. Pillage all OSS resources. Run all OSS devs out. OSS devs skills, time and money are meaningless. Once
    we get rid of all this OSS thing we can have MS back as slave master of operating systems.
    Well played Va7aqd! OR SHOULD I SAY... M$ Agent Va7aqd! You may have gotten me but there is others and they know who you are now!!!

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Dan Clough on Mon May 20 07:55:15 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dan Clough to Badopcode on Sun May 19 2019 09:26 am

    PS: If your a dickhead and you know your are a dickhead... you
    can contribute to OSS just by keeping your mouth shut and leave
    the contributing members of the community alone! XD God i'm
    getting old and contankerous.
    Yeah, you got your last sentence correct, at least. Jeeeeeezzz.

    LOL ... yaaa no arguing that one.

    Not even sure what has offended you so greatly. If you want

    Well it's the constant crazied zealots that try to run off IBM, Novell and now Microsoft from the OSS world. We need these company contributions. These big projects are far from cheap to operate. And many of the big evil corporations do leave some pretty sizable code contributions.

    somebody to contribute to a software project you work on, then say
    so. Put a note in the documentation pointing to a paypal link or something. Make it "shareware" with added features if registered. Whatever you think is right. But to generally criticize all users
    for not contributing to OSS projects doesn't make much sense to

    You pegged me wrong. It's not for me. It's for all the projects out there scraping along. Almost every distro needs all the help they can get.
    But there is a lot of projects hanging by a thread and than when they get a big group of assholes... Well you can imagine. Your forking a lot of expense out of your own pocket. Your putting blood into a project only to have a handful but very loud jerks treat you like all your sacrafice is worthless. AGAIN THIS IS NOT ME!!! I HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS PERSONALLY. I have seen it happen to a number of friends though and I've got some of the splash from being on the team as a contributor.

    me. I'm not a "dickhead".
    What software do you publish that you'd like contributions for,
    anyway?

    Contribute to Synchronet. http://wiki.synchro.net/donate I have nothing to do with this project but I love the software and I think you do too. If so... show Digital Man some love.
    All my personal projects are just small libraries that are released MIT and doesn't cost me crap because services like GitHub pays the would be bill. I don't need it or want it. I'm just sharing stuff I needed for me. But Digital Man pays for a number of resources out of his pocket to share with us as well as his talent and time.
    Also... when users help other users, that is saving the dev SO much time. Make no mistake that those contributions are many times bigger than submitting a bug fix or a bit of cash.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Badopcode on Mon May 20 15:35:00 2019
    On 05-19-19 04:55, Badopcode wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    nah i'm running from a local running WSL. Did a SuSE install from the
    MS store and than installed the linux applications via RPM. So by
    default X software will use the loopback adapter and when it does it
    hits the X server running in Windows. I suppose I could do the X
    server in the Linux subsystem directly but it is just cooler in my
    opinion to run linux apps on Windows like it's just another Windows application.

    Cool, I'd be interested in doing things the same, with the X server running on Windows.


    ... Adam to Eve-> 'I'll wear the plants in this family'.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Denn on Mon May 20 09:57:00 2019
    Denn wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    For many programs like office I use libre etc.. but there are game servers I run that are windows games but actually run better in Linux
    and wine.
    Most windows programs I have tested work well with wine, I don't run
    them in Linux as I still run a few windows machines, my main point is
    that Linux and wine can help windows users make the leap to linux if
    they want to.

    I go back and forth between Linux and Windows on my laptop, and WINE
    has been great for being able to run Photoshop and a couple of apps
    that don't have a Linux version. If I could ever get Microsoft Office
    to run on WINE, I'd abandon Windows on the laptop permanently.



    ... Do you know where you are?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Dan Clough@VERT/PALANT to Denn on Mon May 20 11:59:00 2019
    Denn wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I don't know much about reactos but as for wine I use it all the
    time. I can run most windows based programs with wine installed on
    Ubuntu 14.04 there is a growing dis satifaction of windows.

    But..... why do that? Are there not suitable Linux replacements
    for the Windoze apps that you feel the need to run?

    For many programs like office I use libre etc.. but there are
    game servers I run that are windows games but actually run better
    in Linux and wine.
    Most windows programs I have tested work well with wine, I don't
    run them in Linux as I still run a few windows machines, my main
    point is that Linux and wine can help windows users make the leap
    to linux if they want to.

    I see - OK that makes a little sense. I "made the leap" many
    years ago and haven't ever used wine.



    ... If it walks out of your refrigerator, let it go.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Mon May 20 14:01:33 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Vk3jed on Sun May 19 2019 04:55 am

    nah i'm running from a local running WSL. Did a SuSE install from the MS store and than installed the linux applications via RPM. So by default X

    Wait, what? There's some sort of Microsoft store offering SuSE Linux?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 20 14:05:46 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Denn on Mon May 20 2019 05:57 am

    I go back and forth between Linux and Windows on my laptop, and WINE
    has been great for being able to run Photoshop and a couple of apps
    that don't have a Linux version. If I could ever get Microsoft Office
    to run on WINE, I'd abandon Windows on the laptop permanently.

    Do you use Windows in a VM or dual-boot? If you would rather stay in one environment, perhaps running Windows in a VM on Linux would make sense if you just need to run MS Office sometimes.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From dmxrob@VERT/STLWEST to Nightfox on Mon May 20 17:54:18 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Badopcode on Mon May 20 2019 10:01 am

    Wait, what? There's some sort of Microsoft store offering SuSE Linux?


    Windows Subsystem for Linux - has been around for about 3 or 4 years now. You can run Linux on your Windows 10 install.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Gateway to the West [ bbs.homelabber.net ]
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to dmxrob on Mon May 20 18:06:47 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: dmxrob to Nightfox on Mon May 20 2019 01:54 pm

    Wait, what? There's some sort of Microsoft store offering SuSE Linux?

    Windows Subsystem for Linux - has been around for about 3 or 4 years now. You can run Linux on your Windows 10 install.

    Ah, I've heard of that.. Didn't realize it was using SuSE.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Mon May 20 18:31:39 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to dmxrob on Mon May 20 2019 02:06 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: dmxrob to Nightfox on Mon May 20 2019 01:54 pm

    Wait, what? There's some sort of Microsoft store offering SuSE Linux?

    Windows Subsystem for Linux - has been around for about 3 or 4 years now. You can run Linux on your Windows 10 install.

    Ah, I've heard of that.. Didn't realize it was using SuSE.

    It's not, it's Ubuntu 16.04:
    rob@vert:~$ uname -a
    Linux vert 4.4.0-17134-Microsoft #706-Microsoft Mon Apr 01 18:13:00 PST 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
    rob@vert:/etc$ cat ec2_version
    Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS (Xenial Xerus)

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #29:
    I find lost luggage. I locate mandolin strings in the middle of Austin!
    Norco, CA WX: 66.5°F, 50.0% humidity, 4 mph NNW wind, 0.05 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Dan Clough@VERT/PALANT to Badopcode on Tue May 21 01:36:00 2019
    Badopcode wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Not even sure what has offended you so greatly. If you want

    Well it's the constant crazied zealots that try to run off IBM,
    Novell and now Microsoft from the OSS world. We need these
    company contributions. These big projects are far from cheap to
    operate. And many of the big evil corporations do leave some
    pretty sizable code contributions.

    I doubt that the big companies pay any mind to the "crazied
    zealots". Have any of them quit their involvement because some
    Joe Schmuck is running his mouth on some forum/BBS/Usenet? I
    highly doubt it. It's similar to political freaks screaming their
    outrage - do you think the "mainstream" politicians pay any
    attention to that? Nope.

    somebody to contribute to a software project you work on, then say
    so. Put a note in the documentation pointing to a paypal link or something. Make it "shareware" with added features if registered.
    Whatever you think is right. But to generally criticize all users
    for not contributing to OSS projects doesn't make much sense to

    You pegged me wrong. It's not for me. It's for all the projects
    out there scraping along. Almost every distro needs all the help
    they can get. But there is a lot of projects hanging by a thread
    and than when they get a big group of assholes... Well you can
    imagine. Your forking a lot of expense out of your own pocket.
    Your putting blood into a project only to have a handful but very
    loud jerks treat you like all your sacrafice is worthless. AGAIN
    THIS IS NOT ME!!! I HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS PERSONALLY. I
    have seen it happen to a number of friends though and I've got
    some of the splash from being on the team as a contributor.

    You sure seem pretty agitated over something that doesn't affect
    you personally. Tell your friends to grow a thicker skin and
    ignore the assholes.

    me. I'm not a "dickhead".
    What software do you publish that you'd like contributions for,
    anyway?

    Contribute to Synchronet. http://wiki.synchro.net/donate I have
    nothing to do with this project but I love the software and I
    think you do too. If so... show Digital Man some love.

    I have already done that.

    All my personal projects are just small libraries that are
    released MIT and doesn't cost me crap because services like
    GitHub pays the would be bill. I don't need it or want it. I'm
    just sharing stuff I needed for me.

    Okay then.

    But Digital Man pays for a
    number of resources out of his pocket to share with us as well as
    his talent and time. Also... when users help other users, that is
    saving the dev SO much time. Make no mistake that those
    contributions are many times bigger than submitting a bug fix or
    a bit of cash.

    Yes, I am aware of that, and do what I can, in various ways. I
    know quite a few others that do the same.

    Take it easy and relax a little.



    ... Bug free, cheap, on time, works. Pick two.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 21 01:53:18 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Denn on Mon May 20 2019 05:57 am

    I go back and forth between Linux and Windows on my laptop, and WINE
    has been great for being able to run Photoshop and a couple of apps
    that don't have a Linux version. If I could ever get Microsoft Office
    to run on WINE, I'd abandon Windows on the laptop permanently.
    Ya thats where I was a long while back. Was an early adopter of Google Business Apps for my business so I could do that very thing. But than Google pissed me off with the Chrome/Chromium and Android source code. Well Google got just twisted. At the same time MS vows to be nice. So i've moved my apps to Microsoft's Office. Enticed by Visio. But it's pretty decent if you need Office and not running Mac or Windows.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Vk3jed on Tue May 21 01:57:35 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Badopcode on Mon May 20 2019 11:35 am

    nah i'm running from a local running WSL. Did a SuSE install from
    the MS store and than installed the linux applications via RPM. So
    by default X software will use the loopback adapter and when it does
    it hits the X server running in Windows. I suppose I could do the X
    server in the Linux subsystem directly but it is just cooler in my
    opinion to run linux apps on Windows like it's just another Windows
    application.
    Cool, I'd be interested in doing things the same, with the X server running on Windows.

    Nothing to it really. Install whatever WSL you want. Don't need or want a distro pre-installed with a GUI which most aren't. So if you install Ubuntu just apt-get the X software you want and let it fullfill the dependencies.
    For the x server I am using X410. I didn't have to configure anything. Nothing to configure in Linux. Just run the app and it will work. I've experimented with using a X root and running a window manager. I got it working fair. I think a lot depends on which manager you try to run to be honest.
    But thats it.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Tue May 21 01:59:29 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Badopcode on Mon May 20 2019 10:01 am

    nah i'm running from a local running WSL. Did a SuSE install from
    the MS store and than installed the linux applications via RPM. So
    by default X
    Wait, what? There's some sort of Microsoft store offering SuSE Linux?
    Yep. SuSE, CentOS, Ubuntu... No Arch yet the last time I checked which was a bummer.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Tue May 21 02:05:31 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 20 2019 10:05 am

    that don't have a Linux version. If I could ever get Microsoft
    Office to run on WINE, I'd abandon Windows on the laptop
    permanently.
    Do you use Windows in a VM or dual-boot? If you would rather stay in one environment, perhaps running Windows in a VM on Linux would make sense if you just need to run MS Office sometimes.
    This is definitely a solid solution. You can actually run Windows games in Linux this way as well. Make sure you install a KVM kernel. Than in Qemu (or VirtualBox if you swing that way. Oracle :-P) But you can directly map an extra video card to your emulator. There is some good YouTube videos out there on doing this. It runs pretty much on-the-metal speed.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Digital Man on Tue May 21 02:09:47 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Mon May 20 2019 02:31 pm

    Ah, I've heard of that.. Didn't realize it was using SuSE.
    It's not, it's Ubuntu 16.04:
    rob@vert:~$ uname -a
    Linux vert 4.4.0-17134-Microsoft #706-Microsoft Mon Apr 01 18:13:00 PST
    You can choose now. Just type 'linux' in the search in the Windows store.

    Linux DESKTOP-41B1I2M 4.4.0-17763-Microsoft #379-Microsoft Wed Mar 06 19:16:00 PST 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
    shawn@DESKTOP-41B1I2M:~>

    Can't paste a screen cap but this is from SuSE WSL.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From apam@VERT/SANDWICH to Digital Man on Tue May 21 07:44:00 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to dmxrob on Mon May 20 2019 02:06 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: dmxrob to Nightfox on Mon May 20 2019 01:54 pm

    Wait, what? There's some sort of Microsoft store offering SuSE

    Windows Subsystem for Linux - has been around for about 3 or 4
    now. You can run Linux on your Windows 10 install.

    Ah, I've heard of that.. Didn't realize it was using SuSE.

    It's not, it's Ubuntu 16.04:
    rob@vert:~$ uname -a
    Linux vert 4.4.0-17134-Microsoft #706-Microsoft Mon Apr 01 18:13:00
    PST 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux rob@vert:/etc$ cat
    ec2_version Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS (Xenial Xerus)

    I also had the ubuntu version on WSL when I was running windows, but I am pretty sure SuSE was an option in the store, although at the time I think
    it was leap 42.3 when 15 had been out for a while.

    Andrew

    ---
    * MagickaBBS * The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.magickabbs.com:2023
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Badopcode on Tue May 21 22:00:28 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Nightfox on Mon May 20 2019 09:59 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Badopcode on Mon May 20 2019 10:01 am

    nah i'm running from a local running WSL. Did a SuSE install from
    the MS store and than installed the linux applications via RPM. So
    by default X
    Wait, what? There's some sort of Microsoft store offering SuSE Linux?
    Yep. SuSE, CentOS, Ubuntu... No Arch yet the last time I checked which was a bummer.



    https://i.imgur.com/mLmnoIi.png
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Badopcode on Wed May 22 13:16:00 2019
    On 05-20-19 21:57, Badopcode wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Nothing to it really. Install whatever WSL you want. Don't need or
    want a distro pre-installed with a GUI which most aren't. So if you install Ubuntu just apt-get the X software you want and let it fullfill the dependencies. For the x server I am using X410. I didn't have to configure anything. Nothing to configure in Linux. Just run the app
    and it will work. I've experimented with using a X root and running a window manager. I got it working fair. I think a lot depends on which manager you try to run to be honest. But thats it.

    Just gathering data ATM. First step is to install Windows 10. :)


    ... Lose an hour in the morning and you will spend all day looking for it.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Wed May 22 09:43:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Badopcode <=-

    Cool, I'd be interested in doing things the same, with the X server running on Windows.

    I remember running Desqview/X, let you run X apps in DOS. I didn't
    have any reliance on X apps at the time, just thought it was damn
    cool.



    ... Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 23 15:26:00 2019
    On 05-22-19 05:43, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    Vk3jed wrote to Badopcode <=-

    Cool, I'd be interested in doing things the same, with the X server running on Windows.

    I remember running Desqview/X, let you run X apps in DOS. I didn't
    have any reliance on X apps at the time, just thought it was damn
    cool.

    I never used DV/X, my need for X came later, and by then, I had a Windows X server and Linux. :) Initially, I had to use a remote X server, because the Linux machine was too under powered to run the X server and X apps together.


    ... Young gorillas are friendly but they soon learn.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 23 11:21:45 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Vk3jed on Wed May 22 2019 05:43:00

    I remember running Desqview/X, let you run X apps in DOS. I didn't
    have any reliance on X apps at the time, just thought it was damn
    cool.

    I remember DV and DV/X running my BBS very smoothly. Amazing tool. The first time power of the 80386DX was being used. Every DOS session with extra EMM and in some times XMS. Loved it.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hawkeye on Thu May 23 23:43:00 2019
    On 05-23-19 07:21, Hawkeye wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I remember DV and DV/X running my BBS very smoothly. Amazing tool. The first time power of the 80386DX was being used. Every DOS session with extra EMM and in some times XMS. Loved it.
    HAWKEYE

    I never ran DV/X, but loved DV, especially once I upraded to an 80386 based system, and was able to use its full power. :) But not too long after, I discovered OS/2 and the 486, and never looked back. :)


    ... 12 Hours Of Work!! What Do You Mean Disk Error??
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Hawkeye on Thu May 23 23:27:27 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hawkeye to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 23 2019 07:21 am

    I remember DV and DV/X running my BBS very smoothly. Amazing tool. The first time power of the 80386DX was being used. Every DOS session with extra EMM and in some times XMS. Loved it.

    My wow moment was a little different. I ran Lantastic, which had some cool drive, printer and screen sharing features. I ran the BBS under DOS with Lantastic, and my desktop ran OS/2. I created a DOS VDM with the Lantastic drivers and could grab the screen from the BBS box or map the drives to the BBS and log in locally from across the room .

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to VK3JED on Thu May 23 23:56:00 2019
    I never ran DV/X, but loved DV, especially once I upraded to an 80386 based system, and was able to use its full power. :) But not too long after, I discovered OS/2 and the 486, and never looked back. :)

    I set it up once, just to play with. I wanted to see if I could use the x server to run some of my DOS programs on one of my first linux installs.
    IIRC, it worked, but the thrill of getting it to work wore off quickly.
    Keeping the novell-compatable pieces working on linux was difficult.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ Aibohphobia, n. -- the fear of palindromes.
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Vk3jed on Fri May 24 21:24:57 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hawkeye on Thu May 23 2019 19:43:00

    I never ran DV/X, but loved DV, especially once I upraded to an 80386 based system, and was able to use its full power. :) But not too long after, I discovered OS/2 and the 486, and never looked back. :)

    True, after DVX soon came OS/2 and my BBS also moved to OS/2.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 24 21:27:46 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hawkeye on Thu May 23 2019 19:27:27

    My wow moment was a little different. I ran Lantastic, which had some cool drive, printer and screen sharing features. I ran the BBS under DOS with Lantastic, and my desktop ran OS/2. I created a DOS VDM with the Lantastic drivers and could grab the screen from the BBS box or map the drives to the BBS and log in locally from across the room .

    Later on that was exactly my setup also. OS/2 with Lantastic. more later I switched to Novell Netware.

    I'm so sad I dont have a photo of my bedroom back then. I had 13 computers running the boards, all connected via LAN, CD-ROM jukebox, etc...

    I could sleep with all those fans! LOL... now I cant handle any sound LOL HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dumas Walker on Sun May 26 22:17:00 2019
    On 05-23-19 19:56, Dumas Walker wrote to VK3JED <=-

    I set it up once, just to play with. I wanted to see if I could use
    the x server to run some of my DOS programs on one of my first linux installs. IIRC, it worked, but the thrill of getting it to work wore
    off quickly. Keeping the novell-compatable pieces working on linux was difficult.

    I never actually ran Novell on Linux, though I did get IPX/SPX running at work, even over PPP dialup. I never had Novell at home.


    ... Just because everything is different doesn't mean anything has changed.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hawkeye on Sun May 26 22:21:00 2019
    On 05-24-19 17:24, Hawkeye wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    True, after DVX soon came OS/2 and my BBS also moved to OS/2.
    HAWKEYE

    OS/2 was a sysop's dream come true. :)


    ... Rock is Dead. Long live Paper and Scissors!
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hawkeye on Sun May 26 22:34:00 2019
    On 05-24-19 17:27, Hawkeye wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Later on that was exactly my setup also. OS/2 with Lantastic. more
    later I switched to Novell Netware.

    I didn't really have any file/printer sharing working until I got Windows networking working. It was a bit of a hodge podge, because OS/2 and Windows weren't 100% compatible at the time. In addition, on the Linux box, I ran Samba, which only ran over IP, while the Windows and OS/2 boxes talked over NetBEUI.


    ... This tagline is donationware; send money to register it.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Vk3jed on Mon May 27 04:15:14 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hawkeye on Sun May 26 2019 18:21:00

    True, after DVX soon came OS/2 and my BBS also moved to OS/2.
    HAWKEYE
    OS/2 was a sysop's dream come true. :)

    It was... IBM at that time was very helpful and professional on their supportlines. So sad for the Win95 lack of support and all of a sudden a lot
    of companies abandon Windows 3.x and went to 95 and neglected OS/2....
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Vk3jed on Mon May 27 04:19:43 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hawkeye on Sun May 26 2019 18:34:00

    I didn't really have any file/printer sharing working until I got Windows networking working. It was a bit of a hodge podge, because OS/2 and Windows weren't 100% compatible at the time. In addition, on the Linux box, I ran Samba, which only ran over IP, while the Windows and OS/2 boxes talked over NetBEUI.

    True NetBEUI and IPX/SPX were the protocols at that time, a hassle to check out when something was not working. Reason NT 3.1 was becoming more popular over netware was that Microsoft understoord the importance of TCP/IP.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to VK3JED on Mon May 27 01:57:00 2019
    I set it up once, just to play with. I wanted to see if I could use
    the x server to run some of my DOS programs on one of my first linux installs. IIRC, it worked, but the thrill of getting it to work wore
    off quickly. Keeping the novell-compatable pieces working on linux was difficult.

    I never actually ran Novell on Linux, though I did get IPX/SPX running at work
    even over PPP dialup. I never had Novell at home.

    I only tried it because, at the time, the documentation I found on getting linux and DV/X talking indicated that the novell-compatable networking was
    the way to go.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ The Bagginses, they steals our taglines, precioussss ....
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Hawkeye on Sun May 26 14:12:00 2019
    Hawkeye wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I'm so sad I dont have a photo of my bedroom back then. I had 13
    computers running the boards, all connected via LAN, CD-ROM jukebox, etc...

    Sounds like &TOTSE. Jeff Hunter, the sysop had a consulting business
    and his landlord didn't charge extra for power. He had 10 386SXs in
    various state of assembly in bakers racks running the BBS, with cables everywhere.

    Which is OK - for a BBS. When I visited ISPs back then and saw the
    same setup (with beige minitower systems and bulldog clips holding
    cat5 cables in the racks, I backed slowly away.

    ... Do you ever see inconsistencies in your world?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Sun May 26 14:27:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    I never actually ran Novell on Linux, though I did get IPX/SPX running
    at work, even over PPP dialup. I never had Novell at home.

    I was a Novell guy back then. I ran a couple of weird setups.

    One employer was all Novell and HP, and ran an HP midrange computer
    running HP/UX. They ran a database on it, and an app called Portable
    Netware. Portable Netware mapped a netware file system on top of the
    native file system and ported the Netware Core Protocols, so for all intentions, it looked and felt like a Novell Netware server, only
    slower and MUCH more expensive. The database ran a document management
    system that ran independently of Portable Netware.

    When the power went out in the building and the system powered off, I
    had to bring it up, run a fsck on the base file system, then run a
    netware file system check, then roll back the database. Pain in the
    ass.

    Later, I ran a netware remote access server that let you run IPX/SPX
    from home over a modem. Kooky stuff.



    ... Do you know who I am?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Sun May 26 14:28:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Hawkeye <=-

    OS/2 was a sysop's dream come true. :)

    And a callers' dream! Once at work when I ran Warp, I connected to our companies modem server, grabbed all 4 modems using int14, fired up
    Procomm plus 4 times, and called 4 bbses simultaneously.

    A Shameless Use of Technology.



    ... So, this is me. Who am I?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hawkeye on Mon May 27 20:49:00 2019
    On 05-27-19 00:15, Hawkeye wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    It was... IBM at that time was very helpful and professional on their supportlines. So sad for the Win95 lack of support and all of a sudden
    a lot of companies abandon Windows 3.x and went to 95 and neglected OS/2.... HAWKEYE

    The lack of applications was what forced me to leave OS/2 in the end. Initially, there were a lot of native apps, and when there wasn't, there were DOS or Windows 3.x alternatives.

    After Windows 95 came out, Windows apps moved to WIN32, and OS/2 versions were discontinued, effectively cutting OS/2 out of the picture.


    ... And on the 8th day God said, "Murphy, you're in charge."
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hawkeye on Mon May 27 20:51:00 2019
    On 05-27-19 00:19, Hawkeye wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    True NetBEUI and IPX/SPX were the protocols at that time, a hassle to check out when something was not working. Reason NT 3.1 was becoming
    more popular over netware was that Microsoft understoord the importance
    of TCP/IP. HAWKEYE

    I was sold on IP in 1991, and by 2000, I was already tinkering with IPv6. The rest of the world had to catch up. :)


    ... A system event? Wow! Can I get tickets?
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 28 01:21:00 2019
    On 05-26-19 10:27, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    Vk3jed wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    I never actually ran Novell on Linux, though I did get IPX/SPX running
    at work, even over PPP dialup. I never had Novell at home.

    I was a Novell guy back then. I ran a couple of weird setups.

    Yeah, I didn't have to do much with it. We did have a Netware server, but as you'd expect, it "just worked". :)

    When the power went out in the building and the system powered off, I
    had to bring it up, run a fsck on the base file system, then run a
    netware file system check, then roll back the database. Pain in the
    ass.

    Ouch, gotta love journalling filesystems. :)

    Later, I ran a netware remote access server that let you run IPX/SPX
    from home over a modem. Kooky stuff.

    I was able to do IPX/SPX over PPP with a Linux box. Worked well.


    ... MODEM? I've been calling this BBS with a Tarot deck.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue May 28 01:22:00 2019
    On 05-26-19 10:28, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    Vk3jed wrote to Hawkeye <=-

    OS/2 was a sysop's dream come true. :)

    And a callers' dream! Once at work when I ran Warp, I connected to our companies modem server, grabbed all 4 modems using int14, fired up
    Procomm plus 4 times, and called 4 bbses simultaneously.

    A Shameless Use of Technology.

    Only problem for me - I never had 4 phone lines to do that with.


    ... "Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies."
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Vk3jed on Tue May 28 02:51:49 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hawkeye on Mon May 27 2019 16:49:00

    The lack of applications was what forced me to leave OS/2 in the end.

    Who didnt... My customers kept asking for the Win95 applications. I was still hoping OS/2 would get some deal but when it was clear Win32 would never happen on OS/2... we had to step forward and leave it behind. Sad but true.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Tue May 28 01:51:15 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hawkeye on Mon May 27 2019 04:49 pm

    The lack of applications was what forced me to leave OS/2 in the end. Initially, there were a lot of native apps, and when there wasn't, there were DOS or Windows 3.x alternatives.

    I've read that OS/2's ability to run 16-bit Windows apps probably helped kill OS/2.. Developers ended up writing their software for Windows instead of making OS/2-native apps.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Vk3jed on Tue May 28 03:47:06 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hawkeye on Mon May 27 2019 04:51 pm

    I was sold on IP in 1991, and by 2000, I was already tinkering with IPv6. The rest of the world had to catch up. :)

    I have IPV6 through my isp but I stubornly resist I also still have ipv4
    I will probably use ipv4 untill they make me accept ipv6.
    My router is actually setup for both.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hawkeye on Tue May 28 23:08:00 2019
    On 05-27-19 22:51, Hawkeye wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/MASHBBS
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hawkeye on Mon May 27 2019 16:49:00

    The lack of applications was what forced me to leave OS/2 in the end.

    Who didnt... My customers kept asking for the Win95 applications. I was still hoping OS/2 would get some deal but when it was clear Win32 would never happen on OS/2... we had to step forward and leave it behind. Sad but true. HAWKEYE

    Pretty much the same story for me. :(


    ... It's a can of worms full of Pandora's boxes.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Tue May 28 23:26:00 2019
    On 05-27-19 21:51, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've read that OS/2's ability to run 16-bit Windows apps probably
    helped kill OS/2.. Developers ended up writing their software for
    Windows instead of making OS/2-native apps.

    I've read that too.


    ... We are ethically compelled to deny your demands!
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Denn on Tue May 28 23:28:00 2019
    On 05-27-19 23:47, Denn wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I have IPV6 through my isp but I stubornly resist I also still have
    ipv4 I will probably use ipv4 untill they make me accept ipv6.
    My router is actually setup for both.

    Umm, why? I've been running IPv6 native since early 2011.


    ... There's no place like ::1
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Tue May 28 05:27:12 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Mon May 27 2019 09:51 pm

    I've read that OS/2's ability to run 16-bit Windows apps probably helped kill OS/2.. Developers ended up writing their software for Windows instead of making OS/2-native apps.

    OS/2 was an odd beast. Cool as crap but odd. If you ever tore into the machine code of OS/2 it was actually hooking resources like ISR's. Like you could 100% write a OS/2 GUI application in assembler if your sadistic enough. It really was the logical next step from DOS. But the whole world lunged forward to Win95 and the Win32 API and that was the end of OS/2. OS/2 would have to have a major complete rewrite to compete for both developers and users. I wasn't a fan of Win95 or Win32 API. It was alright but so much of what they did seemed more like they just wanted to break their open standards they had on Win16 and lock everything down with their driver system. If it wasn't for Intel we would probably all still be slaves to MS's drivers. EFI had been out forever but I think MS's release of Vista went too far for Intel. :)

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Hawkeye on Tue May 28 13:46:13 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hawkeye to Vk3jed on Mon May 27 2019 10:51 pm

    The lack of applications was what forced me to leave OS/2 in the
    end.

    Who didnt... My customers kept asking for the Win95 applications. I was still hoping OS/2 would get some deal but when it was clear Win32 would never happen on OS/2... we had to step forward and leave it behind. Sad

    I loved OS/2. I was getting a lot of "Warez" back then, non of which ran on OS/2. After holding out for almost 3 years I finally joined the "Microsoft Movement" with my tail between my legs. I never purchased another piece of software after that. The underground exploded with software for win32.

    HusTler
    *Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)*

    ... I was brought up in a clergyman's house so I am a first-class liar.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Tue May 28 12:33:32 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Nightfox on Tue May 28 2019 01:27 am

    OS/2 was an odd beast. Cool as crap but odd. If you ever tore into the machine code of OS/2 it was actually hooking resources like ISR's. Like you could 100% write a OS/2 GUI application in assembler if your sadistic enough. It really was the logical next step from DOS. But the whole world lunged forward to Win95 and the Win32 API and that was the end of OS/2. OS/2 would have to have a major complete rewrite to compete for both developers and users. I wasn't a fan of Win95 or Win32 API. It was alright

    I thought I had read at the time that OS/2 had a fairly good object-oriented API for the GUI. Interesting that you could do a GUI in assembly for it too.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to HusTler on Tue May 28 12:39:29 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: HusTler to Hawkeye on Tue May 28 2019 09:46 am

    I loved OS/2. I was getting a lot of "Warez" back then, non of which ran on OS/2. After holding out for almost 3 years I finally joined the "Microsoft Movement" with my tail between my legs. I never purchased another piece of software after that.

    That's probably not a great thing to boast about..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to Vk3jed on Tue May 28 21:18:37 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Tue May 28 2019 07:26 pm

    I've read that too.

    I remember that to even get OS/2 running, you had to have a pretty beefy system, which was expensive. Then IBM wanted your other arm and leg for OS/2 developer tools (I don't remember if they wanted a percentage of your profits of your software).

    The end result was lots of exensive barriers to developing on OS/2. By the time IBM figure out the problem, it was too late and no one cared about OS/2 anymore.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Two Dudes BBS - twodudesbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dr. What on Tue May 28 19:41:37 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dr. What to Vk3jed on Tue May 28 2019 05:18 pm

    I remember that to even get OS/2 running, you had to have a pretty beefy system, which was expensive. Then IBM wanted your other arm and leg for OS/2 developer tools (I don't remember if they wanted a percentage of your profits of your software).

    The end result was lots of exensive barriers to developing on OS/2. By the time IBM figure out the problem, it was too late and no one cared about OS/2 anymore.

    I seem to remember Windows 3.x needing a relatively powerful computer too, but I'm not sure if OS/2 needed an even more powerful computer..

    Looking back, it seems silly that they'd make it that difficult to develop software for an OS. But I think Microsoft's Visual Studio cost a lot of money back then too.. From what I've heard, o ne reason why Borland's developer tools (Turbo C and Turbo C++) were popular was because they were relatively inexpensive. Then Microsoft made their developer tools less expensive, and they started to take off.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Sandman@VERT/HAVENS to Nightfox on Tue May 28 23:05:54 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Tue May 28 2019 08:39 am

    I loved OS/2. I was getting a lot of "Warez" back then, non of which
    ran on OS/2. After holding out for almost 3 years I finally joined
    the "Microsoft Movement" with my tail between my legs. I never
    purchased another piece of software after that.

    That's probably not a great thing to boast about..

    It's not "boasting". It's stating the facts. IBM had an opputunity and they blew it. I see no reason why Microsoft got the market share they did. IBM and OS/2 was the only competiton Microsoft had other then Apple and they blew it.They didn't learn a thing even after handing DOS over to Gates. Many people could not afford the software Microsoft put out so they got it illegally. Microsoft didn't care about "us". I don't feel bad about stealing from a monopoly. Just like I did'nt mind stealing HBO from the cable company back then. I've heard your "pitch" on illegal software. It only works for people that have money.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Sandman on Tue May 28 21:32:13 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Sandman to Nightfox on Tue May 28 2019 07:05 pm

    I loved OS/2. I was getting a lot of "Warez" back then, non of
    which ran on OS/2. After holding out for almost 3 years I finally
    joined the "Microsoft Movement" with my tail between my legs. I
    never purchased another piece of software after that.

    That's probably not a great thing to boast about..

    It's not "boasting". It's stating the facts. IBM had an opputunity and they blew it. I see no reason why Microsoft got the market share they did. IBM and OS/2 was the only competiton Microsoft had other then Apple and

    As far as boasting, I didn't mean OS/2, I meant never purchasing another piece of software after getting into the Microsoft movement..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed May 29 01:30:18 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Mon May 27 2019 09:51 pm

    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hawkeye on Mon May 27 2019 04:49 pm

    The lack of applications was what forced me to leave OS/2 in the end. Initially, there were a lot of native apps, and when there wasn't, there were DOS or Windows 3.x alternatives.

    I've read that OS/2's ability to run 16-bit Windows apps probably helped kill OS/2.. Developers ended up writing their software for Windows instead of making OS/2-native apps.


    i think the way os2 marketed itself and the way ibm conducted business put the various nails in the coffin.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed May 29 01:33:46 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Tue May 28 2019 03:41 pm

    I seem to remember Windows 3.x needing a relatively powerful computer too, but I'm not sure if OS/2 needed an even more powerful computer..

    Looking back, it seems silly that they'd make it that difficult to develop software for an OS. But I think Microsoft's Visual Studio cost a lot of


    i ran os2 on a 386 that wasnt so hot and i ran 3.X on it too. i dont think it needed a powerful computer.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Sandman on Wed May 29 01:37:26 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Sandman to Nightfox on Tue May 28 2019 07:05 pm

    blew it.They didn't learn a thing even after handing DOS over to Gates. Many people could not afford the software Microsoft put out so they got it illegally. Microsoft didn't care about "us". I don't feel bad about stealing from a monopoly. Just like I did'nt mind stealing HBO from the cable company back then. I've heard your "pitch" on illegal software. It only works for people that have money.


    well if you use something on a regular basis, you should find the money to purchase it. i'm sure most people can come up with the money.

    regarding hbo and movies, i wish they would switch to a different business model. i dont want to get hbo and see all the filler shit. i want to watch maybe one show. if i could pay like 2.99 a month to watch my one show atleast they'd be making some money off of me and other people. instead we are downloading stuff.

    i hate going to the movies and being next to a stinky person who talks on their phone or clears their throat every 30 seconds. i always have this problem when i go to the movies.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Nightfox on Wed May 29 03:59:50 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Sandman on Tue May 28 2019 05:32 pm

    Maybe I didn't say it right. I really loved OS/2 and I supported for 3 years. I bought just about every piece of software I could find for it. I didn't get what all the fuss was about when windows 95 came out. OS/2 was so much better in my opinion. Then when Office came out I "got it". You needed Windows to use office. I had no use for Office. I needed a decent word processor but that was it. Back then I would recommended OS/2 if you were buying a computer. So yea, I was pissed OS/2 bailed on me but I vowed to never support Microsoft. Does anyone remember the browser wars? Oh man I was a Netscape fanatic! I cursed Microsoft and Internet Explorer. They were trying to manipulate the web. Gates tried to buy the eastern backbone. I hated Microsoft. Still do. I would still steal their software if I felt is was worth it. So I was boasting about stealing software. I was not supporting Microsoft and the Gates Dynasty by stealing. I installed a lot a free microsoft software for family members that couldn't afford it. It was my way of saying "Hey Microsft...Kiss my Ass!!

    HusTler
    *Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)*

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)
  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Vk3jed on Wed May 29 03:29:06 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Denn on Tue May 28 2019 07:28 pm

    I have IPV6 through my isp but I stubornly resist I also still have
    ipv4 I will probably use ipv4 untill they make me accept ipv6.
    My router is actually setup for both.

    Umm, why? I've been running IPv6 native since early 2011.

    I run several game servers that need ipv4 addresses.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ outwestbbs.com - the Outwest BBS
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dr. What on Wed May 29 22:43:00 2019
    On 05-28-19 17:18, Dr. What wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've read that too.

    I remember that to even get OS/2 running, you had to have a pretty
    beefy system, which was expensive. Then IBM wanted your other arm and
    leg for OS/2 developer tools (I don't remember if they wanted a
    percentage of your profits of your software).

    From memory, not as beefy as Windows NT needed. Yeah, I'll take your word on the developer tools, since that was not anything I used.

    The end result was lots of exensive barriers to developing on OS/2. By the time IBM figure out the problem, it was too late and no one cared about OS/2 anymore.

    Mismanagement again.


    ... If you feel strongly about graffiti, sign a partition.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Denn on Wed May 29 22:48:00 2019
    On 05-28-19 23:29, Denn wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I have IPV6 through my isp but I stubornly resist I also still have
    ipv4 I will probably use ipv4 untill they make me accept ipv6.
    My router is actually setup for both.

    Umm, why? I've been running IPv6 native since early 2011.

    I run several game servers that need ipv4 addresses.

    That explains why you need IPv4, but not why you're "resisting" IPv6.


    ... My computer has a nut loose on the keyboard.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From mark firestone@VERT/QBBS to HUSTLER on Wed May 29 11:53:00 2019
    I loved OS/2. I was getting a lot of "Warez" back then, non of which ran
    OS/2. After holding out for almost 3 years I finally joined the "Microsof
    Movement" with my tail between my legs. I never purchased another piece o
    software after that. The underground exploded with software for win32.

    I used to have to support it. I hated it. Fortunately I've suppressed
    most of that...


    ---
    * TARDIS BBS - Home of QUARKware * telnet bbs.cortex-media.info
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to mark firestone on Wed May 29 13:47:28 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: mark firestone to HUSTLER on Wed May 29 2019 07:53 am

    ran OS/2. After holding out for almost 3 years I finally joined the
    "Microsof Movement" with my tail between my legs. I never purchased

    I used to have to support it. I hated it. Fortunately I've suppressed most of that...

    So you're saying Windows is easier to support? I find that hard to believe. I had to support all Operating Systems. OS/2 was the most stable. Other then the UNIX OS the company computers ran on.

    HusTler
    *Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)*

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to HusTler on Wed May 29 13:41:51 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: HusTler to Nightfox on Tue May 28 2019 11:59 pm

    if I felt is was worth it. So I was boasting about stealing software. I was not supporting Microsoft and the Gates Dynasty by stealing. I

    I'm not sure that sounds much better. :P

    Maybe I didn't say it right. I really loved OS/2 and I supported for 3 years. I bought just about every piece of software I could find for it. I didn't get what all the fuss was about when windows 95 came out. OS/2 was so much better in my opinion. Then when Office came out I "got it". You needed Windows to use office. I had no use for Office. I needed a decent word processor but that was it. Back then I would recommended OS/2 if you were buying a computer. So yea, I was pissed OS/2 bailed on me but I vowed to never support Microsoft. Does anyone remember the browser wars? Oh man I was a Netscape fanatic! I cursed Microsoft and Internet Explorer. They were trying to manipulate the web. Gates tried to buy the eastern backbone. I hated Microsoft. Still do.

    I agree, and I think a lot of people in the know also said OS/2 was better. I've noticed the technically better products don't always win out in the market though.. Sometimes it seems the company that uses tactics to push their products more end up winning out. And I didn't like how Microsoft seemed to want to manipulate the web and dominate the market either. Many peole started to use Internet Explorer because it was already there in Windows, and Internet Explorer 6 was different enough with its quirks and "bugs" that many web developers ended up making sites that worked only with IE and didn't work well with other browsers. I suppose it worked out in the end though, because web developers ended up hating IE, and eventually IE usage dropped heavily in favor of other browsers like Firefox, Google Chrome, etc. Microsoft eventually relented and made IE better. Then they replaced IE with Edge in Windows 10, and now I've heard they might even be abandoning Edge, as they're replacing it with a new Chromium-based web browser.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wed May 29 13:48:31 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue May 28 2019 09:30 pm

    i think the way os2 marketed itself and the way ibm conducted business put the various nails in the coffin.

    Yeah, I thought if IBM could have gotten OS/2 pre-installed on more OEM PCs, that would have helped OS/2. But I understand there may have been reasons OEM PC makers might not have chosen OS/2. Someone else said Microsoft had stipulations that said if PC makers wanted to include MS-DOS/Windows on some of heir PCs, had to pay for a MS-DOS/Windows license for every PC sold, even if they included a different OS on some of their PCs. Those PC makers were basically strong-armed into putting Microsoft OSes on all their PCs, since they wouldn't want to pay for extra OS licenses they weren't using. So I'm wondering how much of OS/2's failure is Microsoft's fault.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wed May 29 14:01:19 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Sandman on Tue May 28 2019 09:37 pm

    regarding hbo and movies, i wish they would switch to a different business model. i dont want to get hbo and see all the filler shit. i want to watch maybe one show. if i could pay like 2.99 a month to watch my one show atleast they'd be making some money off of me and other people. instead we are downloading stuff.

    I agree, and that's one reason I don't have cable TV. I watch some shows over the air and sometimes watch things on Netflix or Amazon Prime occasionally. I'm also interested in Star Trek Discovery, but I don't want to pay for yet another streaming service (CBS All Access) just for one show.

    i hate going to the movies and being next to a stinky person who talks on their phone or clears their throat every 30 seconds. i always have this problem when i go to the movies.

    I haven't really had that problem, but what gets me is the cost of going to the movie theater these days. Just the movie tickets keep getting more and more expensive. My wife and I recently went to see a movie at a local theater, and the tickets were around $12 apiece. And then if you want popcorn or other snacks and drinks, that's fairly spendy too (they only seem to have very large sizes, too, and they charge quite a bit for them). I remember, up until the mid 90s or so, many theaters around my area (which were owned by Act III or something) had a matinee movie price for tickets before 3PM or something, and it was $3.25 for a movie ticket. Popcorn and a drink might have been just a few dollars too.

    Movie theaters these days seem to be trying for a more high-end experience though.. That theater where we went to recently, they have big power reclining seats, which they seem to consider a "premium experience". Those seats aren't even very comfortable for me after a while - I end up having to shift around in those seats because I start to feel sore after a while.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed May 29 20:48:48 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed May 29 2019 09:48 am

    if they included a different OS on some of their PCs. Those PC makers were basically strong-armed into putting Microsoft OSes on all their PCs, since they wouldn't want to pay for extra OS licenses they weren't using. So I'm wondering how much of OS/2's failure is Microsoft's fault.


    they didnt advertise much and os2 cost more than windows in the stores if i remember correctly, also.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wed May 29 20:32:45 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed May 29 2019 04:48 pm

    they didnt advertise much and os2 cost more than windows in the stores if i remember correctly, also.

    Yeah, I don't remember seeing many advertisements for OS/2. I do remember seeing a TV commercial for it back in the late 90s though, and I think some radio commercials for Warp 3 (or maybe Warp 4). I remember seeing articles about OS/2 in some computer magazines too.

    There used to be a local Egghead Software that was selling OS/2 for around $160, I think. I don't remember if that included the Windows 3.1 support or not.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Nightfox on Wed May 29 23:32:33 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Wed May 29 2019 09:41 am

    I agree, and I think a lot of people in the know also said OS/2 was better. I've noticed the technically better products don't always win out quirks and "bugs" that many web developers ended up making sites that
    they might even be abandoning Edge, as they're replacing it with a new Chromium-based web browser.

    I heard the same thing about Edge. I'm surprised. Makes me wonder what there up to, giving up so early. Anyway I have strong feelings about Monopolies and that's what I consider Microsoft to be. More so 20 years ago. Most folks I knew couldn't afford a "Macintosh" computer so the default was an IBM AT then XT etc. DOS then Windows for workgroups 3.1 etc. Once 95 came out it was all over. You couldn't even find shareware to run on windows. Things are much better today. These days the youngsters just want kickass phones.If they buy a PC it's for gaming. I assume you need Windowz for most games. I'm out of the loop when it comes to "new" stuff. I just know I ain't buying anything from Microsoft.

    HusTler
    *Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)*

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed May 29 23:14:58 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed May 29 2019 10:01 am

    Movie theaters these days seem to be trying for a more high-end experience though.. That theater where we went to recently, they have big power reclining seats, which they seem to consider a "premium experience". Those seats aren't even very comfortable for me after a while - I end up having to shift around in those seats because I start to feel sore after a while.



    we have those too, and they are heated. i think they're dirty. i make sure i wear my big leather coat with a hood and i coccoon myself in.

    at my theater they also have alcohol and real food, but it's way expensive. they are out of touch, still.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to HusTler on Thu May 30 14:12:00 2019
    On 05-29-19 09:47, HusTler wrote to mark firestone <=-

    So you're saying Windows is easier to support? I find that hard to believe. I had to support all Operating Systems. OS/2 was the most
    stable. Other then the UNIX OS the company computers ran on.

    I bet OS/2 support issues were mainly to do with installation. I remember it being quirky to get installed, but once installed, it was stable as a rock. Windows was definitely easier to install.


    ... A new cemetery opened in town: folks are dying to enter.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to HusTler on Thu May 30 00:35:34 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: HusTler to Nightfox on Wed May 29 2019 07:32 pm

    etc. Once 95 came out it was all over. You couldn't even find shareware to run on windows. Things are much better today. These days the youngsters

    Wasn't there? I thought there was plenty of shareware for Windows.. In the mid-90s, even with the transition to Windows 95, there were common programs like WinZip, WinRAR, mIRC and other various internet tools and other things that were all shareware, that I remember.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu May 30 00:39:23 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed May 29 2019 07:14 pm

    at my theater they also have alcohol and real food, but it's way expensive. they are out of touch, still.

    There are a couple chains of theaters in my area that do that too. There's a hotel chain in my area called McMenamnin's, and some have a theater with dining tables where you can sit down and order food & alcohol and watch a movie. Those hotels of theirs always seem fairly old and run-down to me though.. They have some restaurants that are fairly good though.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Thu May 30 06:20:27 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Badopcode on Tue May 28 2019 08:33 am

    if your sadistic enough. It really was the logical next step from
    DOS. But the whole world lunged forward to Win95 and the Win32 API
    I thought I had read at the time that OS/2 had a fairly good object-oriented API for the GUI. Interesting that you could do a GUI in assembly for it too.
    Oh absolutely. Visual Age C++ actually set the bench mark at one point. But the under pinning OS/2 kernel was a weird DOS-ish like. But when it came to memory management they were light years ahead. If i'm remembering correctly OS/2 like Netware used a 5 ring protected mode scheme while MS insisted on 3. BUT what i'm specifically talking about is OS/2's driver system started to fall behind MS. To move forward they would have to have the kernel assume more of the hardware and not rely on a collage of drivers. If you remember back, one of the key thing people complained about at the tiem about Windows 95 is how it flipped the bird to all the users and forced upgrades. Bold move but it paid off. Like BBS's everyone was ready to move forward but a lot of people were scared that the jump was too big.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Dr. What on Thu May 30 06:27:29 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dr. What to Vk3jed on Tue May 28 2019 05:18 pm

    I remember that to even get OS/2 running, you had to have a pretty beefy system, which was expensive. Then IBM wanted your other arm and leg for OS/2 developer tools (I don't remember if they wanted a percentage of your profits of your software).
    The end result was lots of exensive barriers to developing on OS/2. By the time IBM figure out the problem, it was too late and no one cared about OS/2 anymore.
    ehhh not really. Like OS/2 version 2 and 3 definitely required a higher end system but it wasn't totally out of the range of a lot of Win 3 users.
    I will say the developer tools were EXPENSIVE... but all the developer toys were spendy. As a kid I spent most of my time broke from buying compilers. That being said... no the last dickhead to do royalties was DEC on VMS.
    I will say IBM was a bunch of cocky bastards who thought they didn't need to sell any keypoints of their products. They just needed to slap their logo on a product and people would line up. Doesn't take to many no-show releases and your gonna be irrelevant.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Thu May 30 06:36:11 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Tue May 28 2019 03:41 pm

    I remember that to even get OS/2 running, you had to have a pretty
    beefy system, which was expensive. Then IBM wanted your other arm
    I seem to remember Windows 3.x needing a relatively powerful computer too, but I'm not sure if OS/2 needed an even more powerful computer..
    Looking back, it seems silly that they'd make it that difficult to develop software for an OS. But I think Microsoft's Visual Studio cost a lot of money back then too.. From what I've heard, o ne reason why Borland's developer tools (Turbo C and Turbo C++) were popular was because they were relatively inexpensive. Then Microsoft made their developer tools less expensive, and they started to take off.

    No Windows 3.x was pretty light. To do anything cool you had to have more. Windows NT 3.5 required as much or more hardware than OS/2 and you didn't get anything more than OS/2.
    This was before Visual Studio...which came out in 95'ish. Win 3.x era was Quick era. Quick Basic, Quick C, etc. I had both. They weren't bad compilers and they were pretty competively priced to Borland. But Borland won because it was the cheapest with amazing features.
    My memory has Wacom had the scariest price tag. But their C compiler was like 100% Ansi and they could compile GNU software without much porting.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to MRO on Thu May 30 06:41:25 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue May 28 2019 09:30 pm

    i think the way os2 marketed itself and the way ibm conducted business put the various nails in the coffin.
    Couldn't agree more. They didn't promote crap. They thought their logo was all the advertising they needed. They were so busy focused on the top teir corp and government users they ended up losing the whole kit and kaboodle. Fun to watch this pattern repeat with Oracle.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to HusTler on Thu May 30 06:51:59 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: HusTler to Nightfox on Tue May 28 2019 11:59 pm

    backbone. I hated Microsoft. Still do. I would still steal their software if I felt is was worth it. So I was boasting about stealing software. I was not supporting Microsoft and the Gates Dynasty by stealing. I

    Have to agree. Microsoft was so deplorable back than. Gates was a sneak. Balmer did not have the grace that Gates had. Same evil tactics only it was being driven by Homer Simpson.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Thu May 30 07:00:11 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to HusTler on Wed May 29 2019 09:41 am

    Firefox, Google Chrome, etc. Microsoft eventually relented and made IE better. Then they replaced IE with Edge in Windows 10, and now I've heard they might even be abandoning Edge, as they're replacing it with a new Chromium-based web browser.

    I have heard pretty solid rumors they have a Chromium based Edge and plan to officially join the Chromium project.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Thu May 30 13:38:22 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Nightfox on Thu May 30 2019 02:20 am

    drivers. If you remember back, one of the key thing people complained about at the tiem about Windows 95 is how it flipped the bird to all the users and forced upgrades. Bold move but it paid off.

    Not sure what you mean exactly.. Forced upgrades to what? It forced people to upgrade to Windows 95?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Thu May 30 13:40:11 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Nightfox on Thu May 30 2019 02:36 am

    This was before Visual Studio...which came out in 95'ish. Win 3.x era was Quick era. Quick Basic, Quick C, etc. I had both. They weren't bad compilers and they were pretty competively priced to Borland. But Borland won because it was the cheapest with amazing features.

    Yeah, I remember Borland had Turbo C, Turbo C++, Turbo Pascal etc.. I remember Quick Basic being from Microsoft, was Quick C also from Microsoft?

    My memory has Wacom had the scariest price tag. But their C compiler was like 100% Ansi and they could compile GNU software without much porting.

    That's cool.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Thu May 30 13:54:10 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to HusTler on Thu May 30 2019 02:51 am

    Have to agree. Microsoft was so deplorable back than. Gates was a sneak. Balmer did not have the grace that Gates had. Same evil tactics only it was being driven by Homer Simpson.

    Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!
    https://youtu.be/Il4b-C67EXY
    https://youtu.be/d_AP3SGMxxM

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Thu May 30 22:37:00 2019
    Yeah, I don't remember seeing many advertisements for OS/2. I do remember seeing a TV commercial for it back in the late 90s though, and I think some radio commercials for Warp 3 (or maybe Warp 4). I remember seeing articles about OS/2 in some computer magazines too.

    Sometime between 1997 and 2000, they made a push with more TV advertising
    for Warp 4. It was the first time I ever saw an OS/2 ad. It was on pretty regular for a brief period of time. It was too little, too late by then, though.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ What happens when you get scared half to death.....twice?
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Thu May 30 22:44:00 2019
    we have those too, and they are heated. i think they're dirty. i make sure i >wear my big leather coat with a hood and i coccoon myself in.

    The one near my Mother's has the recliners. They are not heated. IMHO, if they were I would be worried about them incubating germs.

    at my theater they also have alcohol and real food, but it's way expensive. >they are out of touch, still.

    Same at this one. I went to one once in Cincinnati, by Jungle Jim's, where they actually take your food order and then serve you right about the time
    the movie starts. No recliners there, but they had little tables in front
    of the seats.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ BUFFERS=20 FILES=15 2nd down, 4th quarter, 5 yards to go!
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BADOPCODE on Fri May 31 23:13:00 2019
    No Windows 3.x was pretty light. To do anything cool you had to have more. Windows NT 3.5 required as much or more hardware than OS/2 and you didn't get anything more than OS/2.

    OS/2 was not easy to install and set up. NT 3.5, by comparison, was a real pain in the rear.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ He's not dead,he's electroencephalographically challenged
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BADOPCODE on Fri May 31 23:14:00 2019
    I have heard pretty solid rumors they have a Chromium based Edge and plan to officially join the Chromium project.

    IIRC, osnews.com reported a few weeks back that MS was moving their browser engine to Chromium so, yeah, I think it is happening.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ Hell is full. The damned are now in Tech Support.
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Wed May 29 10:13:00 2019
    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    i ran os2 on a 386 that wasnt so hot and i ran 3.X on it too. i dont
    think it needed a powerful computer.

    Power, No. Memory, yes. Back then, most people didn't have a lot of
    memory, because DOS couldn't do much with it.

    It needed at least 2 mb to install, my work had PS/2s with 8 MB and it
    ran nicely. My home box was an old server with 12 MB, and that was my
    OS/2 BBS box for several years.



    ... Have you ever asked a question you weren't supposed to ask?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Badopcode on Fri May 31 02:14:00 2019
    Badopcode wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I have heard pretty solid rumors they have a Chromium based Edge and
    plan to officially join the Chromium project.

    Not rumors. I'm running it.



    ... Do you know where you are?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Fri May 31 02:15:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to Badopcode <=-

    Yeah, I remember Borland had Turbo C, Turbo C++, Turbo Pascal etc.. I remember Quick Basic being from Microsoft, was Quick C also from Microsoft?

    Yes. Quick C was nice, I got an academic deal on it in college.
    Unfortunately, most of the professors had Turbo C and wanted programs
    turned in that compiled/ran in TC.



    ... What do you think of the guests?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jun 3 00:26:08 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to MRO on Wed May 29 2019 06:13 am

    i ran os2 on a 386 that wasnt so hot and i ran 3.X on it too. i dont
    think it needed a powerful computer.

    Power, No. Memory, yes. Back then, most people didn't have a lot of memory, because DOS couldn't do much with it.

    Maybe not DOS itself, but I think with EMS and XMS, applications could make use of larger amounts of RAM?

    Also, I think another reason people didn't usually have a lot of RAM was because it was expensive. Until the mid-90s or so, I seem to remember 1MB of RAM costing around $100.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MATTHEW MUNSON@VERT/IUTOPIA to BADOPCODE on Sun Jun 2 12:03:00 2019
    I have heard pretty solid rumors they have a Chromium based Edge and plan to officially join the Chromium project.
    I am currently using it, but Google is still pissed. They are nerfing
    the experience people use with drive and youtube on Chromium Edge.

    ---
    ■ wcQWK 7.0 ≈ Inland Utopia * utopiabbs.zapto.org:2323
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Mon Jun 3 20:38:00 2019
    On 06-02-19 20:26, Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Power, No. Memory, yes. Back then, most people didn't have a lot of memory, because DOS couldn't do much with it.

    Maybe not DOS itself, but I think with EMS and XMS, applications could make use of larger amounts of RAM?

    Once the 386 came out, you could do a lot of things with that extra RAM. It could be mapped as XMS or EMS by the 386's MMU (via a suitable driver like QEMM386, or the Microsoft equivalents). EMS (whether an external card or mapped by the 386) was very useful for DESQview, because it could be used to allow more apps to run.

    Also, protexted mode DOS programs (DPMI, etc) could access the extra RAM.

    Also, I think another reason people didn't usually have a lot of RAM
    was because it was expensive. Until the mid-90s or so, I seem to
    remember 1MB of RAM costing around $100.

    That was my reason. I thought I was pretty good when I had 2MB on board and another 2MB on an expansion card. That card could be configured as EMS 3.2 or XMS. In the 286 that I had the card in originally, EMS was the better option, but in the 386, I set the card up as XMS, because the 386 could provide EMS 4.0 as needed, which DV could better utilise than EMS 3.2. That gave me more RAM for DV to play with, though the apps that were running off the card were a lot slower. Even then, on board RAM was much faster than that on an expansion card. But it still worked. :)

    Those were the days, when you had conventional, extended, expanded, high memory, UMBs and had to make it all work. :D I was pretty happy with myself, when I could get over 700k of conventional memory. That was achieved by:

    1. Using QEMM386 (only memory manager that could do this).

    2. Loading as many drivers and TSRs as possible "high"

    And most importantly...

    3. Running CGA graphics mode, which gave 736k of contiguous RAM to start with, when QEMM did its magic. You either had to use a real CGA card or remap the lower 96k of video RAM and NEVER use monochrome or EGA/VGA modes (not hard to do on a BBS machine). :)

    Ahh, the joys of DOS. ;)


    ... At least down here you can still smoke in bars. -Satan
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Vk3jed on Mon Jun 3 04:56:07 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon Jun 03 2019 04:38 pm

    Once the 386 came out, you could do a lot of things with that extra RAM.

    device=smartdrv.sys


    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #63:
    SMB = Synchronet Message Base (e.g. smblib)
    Norco, CA WX: 56.6°F, 91.0% humidity, 6 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Digital Man on Tue Jun 4 02:24:00 2019
    On 06-03-19 00:56, Digital Man wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon Jun 03 2019 04:38 pm

    Once the 386 came out, you could do a lot of things with that extra RAM.

    device=smartdrv.sys

    Another useful one. :)


    ... File COLDBEER.CAN not found....operator not loaded!
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Nightfox on Mon Jun 3 23:46:31 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Mon May 27 2019 21:51:15

    I've read that OS/2's ability to run 16-bit Windows apps probably helped kill OS/2.. Developers ended up writing their software for Windows instead of making OS/2-native apps.

    I dont know what I read at that era but I remember 16 bit was running better on OS/2 then Windows 3.xx. NT server and Windows 95 were providing things OS2 couldnt and weirdly the users wanted it... customers demanding Win95... so what do you do... exactly provide.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Dumas Walker on Mon Jun 3 23:55:51 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dumas Walker to BADOPCODE on Fri May 31 2019 19:13:00

    OS/2 was not easy to install and set up. NT 3.5, by comparison, was a real pain in the rear.

    Installing Netware was expert level compared to OS/2 or NT35... Netware 3.x was easier but 2.x was a pain in the ass... lol
    but super stable


    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to MATTHEW MUNSON on Mon Jun 3 18:53:37 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to BADOPCODE on Sun Jun 02 2019 08:03 am

    I have heard pretty solid rumors they have a Chromium based Edge and plan to officially join the Chromium project.
    I am currently using it, but Google is still pissed. They are nerfing
    the experience people use with drive and youtube on Chromium Edge.

    I would love to suggest using Firefox, but we know what Google's doing with that experience too.

    I have been moving a few things out of Google recently, as I think they've got a little too big for their britches in recent years. Nextcloud has been helpful, but I haven't got around to doing photos yet, which will be the next trick.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ VA7AQD's Tavern - bbs.isurf.ca
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Mon Jun 3 20:51:45 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hawkeye to Nightfox on Mon Jun 03 2019 07:46 pm

    I dont know what I read at that era but I remember 16 bit was running better on OS/2 then Windows 3.xx.

    From what I remember, 16-bit Windows apps running in OS/2 looked like they were running in Windows 3.x, with the window border styles and color scheme etc.. I thought OS/2 actualy had some form of Windows 3.x that it used for running Windows 3.x apps.

    I do remember hearing that OS/2 was "a better DOS than DOS", since OS/2 was able to multi-task DOS apps very well.

    NT server and Windows 95 were providing
    things OS2 couldnt and weirdly the users wanted it... customers demanding Win95... so what do you do... exactly provide.

    I think Microsoft getting MS-DOS and Windows pre-installed on OEM computers helped in getting people familiar with Windows, so people naturally gravitated toward Windows 95 when it came out.

    The Windows 95 release was the only time I remember a Microsoft product generating long lines of people at stores like Apple products tend to generate. In the mid-90s, I didn't really like Microsoft very much, but I saw the importance of Windows 95. I was excited by things like OS/2 though, because I saw that OS/2 was a good product, and also that it was something different than Windows, which was becoming more and more dominant.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hawkeye on Wed Jun 5 02:11:00 2019
    On 06-03-19 19:55, Hawkeye wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

    @VIA: VERT/MASHBBS
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dumas Walker to BADOPCODE on Fri May 31 2019 19:13:00

    OS/2 was not easy to install and set up. NT 3.5, by comparison, was a real pain in the rear.

    Installing Netware was expert level compared to OS/2 or NT35... Netware 3.x was easier but 2.x was a pain in the ass... lol
    but super stable

    I remember installing a Banyan Vines server was also a pain!


    ... Buy Land Now. It's Not Being Made Any More.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Tue Jun 4 10:22:57 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Hawkeye on Mon Jun 03 2019 04:51 pm

    From what I remember, 16-bit Windows apps running in OS/2 looked like they were running in Windows 3.x, with the window border styles and color scheme etc.. I thought OS/2 actualy had some form of Windows 3.x that it used for running Windows 3.x apps.

    There as a version that needed a Windows installation, and another one that came with the Windows subsystem installed. One was a red box, one was a blue box.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jun 4 13:12:16 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Jun 04 2019 06:22 am

    From what I remember, 16-bit Windows apps running in OS/2 looked
    like they were running in Windows 3.x, with the window border styles
    and color scheme etc.. I thought OS/2 actualy had some form of
    Windows 3.x that it used for running Windows 3.x apps.

    There as a version that needed a Windows installation, and another one that came with the Windows subsystem installed. One was a red box, one was a blue box.

    Yes, I remember that. I just don't remember for sure if the one that included the Windows subsystem was actually a version of Windows from Microsoft.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dr. What@VERT/TWODUDES to Va7aqd on Tue Jun 4 16:59:25 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Va7aqd to MATTHEW MUNSON on Mon Jun 03 2019 02:53 pm

    I have been moving a few things out of Google recently, as I think they've got a little too big for their britches in recent years. Nextcloud has been helpful, but I haven't got around to doing photos yet, which will be the next trick.

    Same here. I moved to Tutanota for email. They will be doing a calendar soon, then I'll move the calendar there.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Two Dudes BBS - twodudesbbs.com
  • From Wanderer@VERT/HDCBBS to Nightfox on Wed Jun 5 02:31:26 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jun 04 2019 09:12 am

    Yes, I remember that. I just don't remember for sure if the one that included
    the
    Windows subsystem was actually a version of Windows from Microsoft.

    IBM had a license to use Windows 3.x in OS/2. I think it called itself WinOS2, but it was basically genuine Windows. 32-bit Windows was not covered, and MS also
    tried to break Win32s(the 16-bit compatibility layer) so that Win32 apps wouldn't
    run on WinOS2. I don't know if that worked or if IBM was able to work around that.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Hard Drive Cafe - hdcbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Wed Jun 5 10:26:39 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jun 04 2019 09:12 am

    Yes, I remember that. I just don't remember for sure if the one that included the Windows subsystem was actually a version of Windows from Microsoft.

    Yes, it was a licensed copy - it cost more than the OS/2 w/o Windows. I was on the fence about it, as there was parity between OS/2 PM and Windows apps, but that rapidly changed.

    I had Word and Excel for OS/2, Minicom (a nice scaled-font terminal program), a telnet/ftp/news client, and so on.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Vk3jed on Sun Jun 9 21:12:01 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Hawkeye on Tue Jun 04 2019 22:11:00

    I remember installing a Banyan Vines server was also a pain!

    For me that was later than Netware... and indeed... token ring and the clients were a challenge. But I loved that with multi user environment... streettalk was the basis for domains on Windows... they bought it.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MASH4077.DDNS.NET - MASH BBS - The Netherlands
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hawkeye on Mon Jun 10 12:24:00 2019
    On 06-09-19 17:12, Hawkeye wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    For me that was later than Netware... and indeed... token ring and the

    Hmm, the installation I worked on was on Ethernet. I haven't really worked on token ring based networks.

    clients were a challenge. But I loved that with multi user
    environment... streettalk was the basis for domains on Windows... they bought it. HAWKEYE

    Yes, Streettalk was very well done. No wonder MS bought it for AD.


    ... To improve your chili, remove an ingredient.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Wed Jun 19 01:05:55 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Badopcode on Thu May 30 2019 09:38 am

    drivers. If you remember back, one of the key thing people
    complained about at the tiem about Windows 95 is how it flipped the
    bird to all the users and forced upgrades. Bold move but it paid
    Not sure what you mean exactly.. Forced upgrades to what? It forced people to upgrade to Windows 95?

    Originally MS was going to release MS-DOS 7 and Windows 4.0. At the time a lot of DOS clones and other UI's were aggressively targeting 32 bit protected mode with multi-tasking. Microsoft took a gamble and released Win95 at the bundled price of DOS w/ Windows price and "killed" DOS. By only allowing their DOS. Instead of drivers loading at the DOS layer (like OS/2) they pushed their Win32 API driver system which was still half-baked. Anyone remembers the awesome printer drivers that would nuke Win95? Their claims of it was done for memory managing reasons was an absolute bald face lie. Windows 95 was still getting it's memory manager from EMM386 that was silently loaded in DOS.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Nightfox on Wed Jun 19 01:08:43 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Nightfox to Badopcode on Thu May 30 2019 09:54 am

    sneak. Balmer did not have the grace that Gates had. Same evil
    tactics only it was being driven by Homer Simpson.
    Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!
    LOL! YEP! I called Windows Vista, Windows Homer. Or "The Homer."

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Dumas Walker on Wed Jun 19 01:15:30 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Thu May 30 2019 06:37 pm

    Sometime between 1997 and 2000, they made a push with more TV advertising for Warp 4. It was the first time I ever saw an OS/2 ad. It was on pretty regular for a brief period of time. It was too little, too late by then,
    I remember an ad for OS/2 v2. I actually bought it. Had to go out and buy a new Tseng video card as mine wasn't compatible.
    Oh speaking of... all this talk of OS/2. Went out and bought a copy of ArcaOS. They did a pretty good job on it. I'm working on porting a bunch of stuff. Right now i'm working on Node JS... which is going ruff. Really rusty on porting let alone OS/2. But having fun. Might work on porting Synch.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Dumas Walker on Wed Jun 19 01:19:26 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Dumas Walker to BADOPCODE on Fri May 31 2019 07:13 pm

    more. Windows NT 3.5 required as much or more hardware than OS/2 and
    you didn't get anything more than OS/2.
    OS/2 was not easy to install and set up. NT 3.5, by comparison, was a real pain in the rear.
    Not to mention having to solve the riddle of sphinx of what hardware is compatible with NT 3.5. I remember going through the installer and looking at the included drivers as a shopping list for a customer who HAD to have NT.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jun 19 01:25:38 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Thu May 30 2019 10:15 pm

    Yes. Quick C was nice, I got an academic deal on it in college. Unfortunately, most of the professors had Turbo C and wanted programs turned in that compiled/ran in TC.

    Thats actually how I got into porting. Was writing code in Turbo Pascal and than would upload it to the schools Vax via dial up and port it to VMS. :)
    Last year in school we as a dept built a Linux distro based off of Slackware root.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to MATTHEW MUNSON on Wed Jun 19 01:30:10 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to BADOPCODE on Sun Jun 02 2019 08:03 am

    I have heard pretty solid rumors they have a Chromium based Edge and
    plan to officially join the Chromium project.
    I am currently using it, but Google is still pissed. They are nerfing
    the experience people use with drive and youtube on Chromium Edge.
    I wouldn't notice. My home business uses Office 365 and YouTube has gotten to be pretty dull.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Wed Jun 19 13:38:36 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Nightfox on Tue Jun 18 2019 09:05 pm

    Originally MS was going to release MS-DOS 7 and Windows 4.0. At the time a lot of DOS clones and other UI's were aggressively targeting 32 bit protected mode with multi-tasking. Microsoft took a gamble and released Win95 at the bundled price of DOS w/ Windows price and "killed" DOS. By only allowing their DOS. Instead of drivers loading at the DOS layer (like OS/2) they pushed their Win32 API driver system which was still half-baked. Anyone remembers the awesome printer drivers that would nuke Win95? Their claims of it was done for memory managing reasons was an absolute bald face lie. Windows 95 was still getting it's memory manager from EMM386 that was silently loaded in DOS.

    Yes, I remember Microsoft calling Windows 95 an operating system, and I saw that it still ran on DOS.. You could even set it up to just boot to a DOS prompt and start Windows 95 by using win.com at the DOS prompt if you wanted to. I thought that was a little weird.. But I suppose Microsoft had the goal of making Windows the OS, and Windows 95 was a stepping stone in that direction (though, they also had Windows NT at the same time..). It was a bit of a weird time for Microsoft and Windows. I think Microsoft also intentionally tried to dominate the web market by bundling Internet Explorer with Windows (so that people would use it instead of other browsers) and then making Internet Explorer behave a little differently from the standards so that web developers would target Internet Explorer.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Wed Jun 19 13:39:09 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Nightfox on Tue Jun 18 2019 09:08 pm

    sneak. Balmer did not have the grace that Gates had. Same evil
    tactics only it was being driven by Homer Simpson.

    Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers!

    LOL! YEP! I called Windows Vista, Windows Homer. Or "The Homer."

    I sometimes call it Windows Hasta La Vista.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Badopcode on Wed Jun 19 17:05:54 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Badopcode to Dumas Walker on Tue Jun 18 2019 09:15 pm

    I remember an ad for OS/2 v2. I actually bought it. Had to go out and buy a new Tseng video card as mine wasn't compatible.
    Oh speaking of... all this talk of OS/2. Went out and bought a copy of ArcaOS. They did a pretty good job on it. I'm working on porting a bunch of stuff. Right now i'm working on Node JS... which is going ruff. Really rusty on porting let alone OS/2. But having fun. Might work on porting Synch.

    Do you think it's actually worth buying a copy of ArcaOS? And does it work well on modern PC hardware?

    I've been doubtful on how much worth it would be to buy a non-mainstream OS these days, since the big 3 (Windows, Mac OS, and Linux) have so much traction in the market, it seems hard to imagine another OS gaining significant support. In the late 90s, I bought a copy of BeOS for x86 (when Be was still around) and was excited to use it, as it seemed like a great OS. However, even back then, it was hard for a relatively new OS to gain popularity when Windows was already dominating the market. Linux had already been around for a little while too. And Apple had just released the iMac, one of the two products (along with the iPod later) that helped bring Apple back from disappearing (Microsoft's financial donation helped, too).

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Jun 20 12:58:00 2019
    On 06-19-19 09:38, Nightfox wrote to Badopcode <=-

    Yes, I remember Microsoft calling Windows 95 an operating system, and I saw that it still ran on DOS.. You could even set it up to just boot
    to a DOS prompt and start Windows 95 by using win.com at the DOS prompt

    Yes, done that, and you could also make DOS boot floppies that simply booted DOS 7.

    if you wanted to. I thought that was a little weird.. But I suppose Microsoft had the goal of making Windows the OS, and Windows 95 was a stepping stone in that direction (though, they also had Windows NT at
    the same time..). It was a bit of a weird time for Microsoft and

    Yes, it took them a while to integrate some of the Win9x features onto the NT kernel and come up with Windows XP, which was one of the best Windows versions.

    Windows. I think Microsoft also intentionally tried to dominate the
    web market by bundling Internet Explorer with Windows (so that people would use it instead of other browsers) and then making Internet
    Explorer behave a little differently from the standards so that web developers would target Internet Explorer.

    Tes, they even tried to integrate IE into the desktop, which was a pain. Anyway, all I ever used IE for was to download Firefox (unless I was in an environment where I had to use it). :D


    ... If a program calls another program a little bugger, isn't it an insult?
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Jun 20 13:00:00 2019
    On 06-19-19 13:05, Nightfox wrote to Badopcode <=-

    Do you think it's actually worth buying a copy of ArcaOS? And does it work well on modern PC hardware?

    I've mulled that one over myself, but haven't taken the plunge yet.

    I've been doubtful on how much worth it would be to buy a
    non-mainstream OS these days, since the big 3 (Windows, Mac OS, and
    Linux) have so much traction in the market, it seems hard to imagine

    I think you'd have to have a use in mind. For example, if I was to do it, I would be looking at resurrecting my old systems.


    ... The greatest enemy of creatitivy is staying inside your comfort zone
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Wed Jun 19 21:08:09 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Jun 20 2019 08:58 am

    Yes, I remember Microsoft calling Windows 95 an operating system,
    and I saw that it still ran on DOS.. You could even set it up to
    just boot to a DOS prompt and start Windows 95 by using win.com at
    the DOS prompt

    Yes, done that, and you could also make DOS boot floppies that simply booted DOS 7.

    Yep, I've done that. I don't remember if it actually called itself MS-DOS 7 though. I seem to remember running "ver" on a boot floppy made that way, and for some reason I thought it said "Windows 95" or something similar. Similar with DOS boot floppies made from Windows 98.

    Yes, it took them a while to integrate some of the Win9x features onto the NT kernel and come up with Windows XP, which was one of the best Windows versions.

    I thought most/all of the Win9x features were merged into Windows 2000? I remember Windows 2000 finally having up-to-date DirectX support for games, etc.. But Windows 2000 was more popular for businesses, with Microsoft releasing Windows ME for the consumer. Windows XP was when Microsoft finally ended the separate NT/9x editions and had a single codebase for Windows.

    As a side note, a lot of people have said Windows ME was very bad, but I ran it for a little while and I didn't have a problem with it..

    Tes, they even tried to integrate IE into the desktop, which was a pain. Anyway, all I ever used IE for was to download Firefox (unless I was in an environment where I had to use it). :D

    It seemed like I had to use IE for certain web sites because some web sites only worked in IE for a while (or didn't work well if I was using a different browser).

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Wed Jun 19 21:09:26 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Jun 20 2019 09:00 am

    I've been doubtful on how much worth it would be to buy a
    non-mainstream OS these days, since the big 3 (Windows, Mac OS, and
    Linux) have so much traction in the market, it seems hard to imagine

    I think you'd have to have a use in mind. For example, if I was to do it, I would be looking at resurrecting my old systems.

    I suppose that would be one use of ArcaOS. But a lot of people these days also choose to use a Linux distro to resurrect old systems that don't run newer versions of Windows very well. I suppose it depends on what you want to do with the system.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Jun 20 14:58:00 2019
    On 06-19-19 17:08, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yep, I've done that. I don't remember if it actually called itself
    MS-DOS 7 though. I seem to remember running "ver" on a boot floppy
    made that way, and for some reason I thought it said "Windows 95" or something similar. Similar with DOS boot floppies made from Windows
    98.

    I always thought of it as DOS 7. I can't recall what ver said it was. :)

    I thought most/all of the Win9x features were merged into Windows 2000?
    I remember Windows 2000 finally having up-to-date DirectX support for games, etc.. But Windows 2000 was more popular for businesses, with

    Yes, a lot of the features in 9x, like PnP and DirectX made it into 2000.

    Microsoft releasing Windows ME for the consumer. Windows XP was when Microsoft finally ended the separate NT/9x editions and had a single codebase for Windows.

    Yep. :)

    As a side note, a lot of people have said Windows ME was very bad, but
    I ran it for a little while and I didn't have a problem with it..

    It was known as "Windows Must Erase". :D

    People said the same about Vista, but my Vista installations were rock solid. Sure it was resource heavy, but I found it more stable than XP. I think one of the reasons was I went for a clean 64 bit installation, so there were no legacy drivers kicking around. My last Vista installation has only just been decommissioned, because I needed the desktop for my Linux mail server. Since Linux is on a separate SSD, the Vista installation is actually still there.

    It seemed like I had to use IE for certain web sites because some web sites only worked in IE for a while (or didn't work well if I was using
    a different browser).

    Yes, that happened for a while, often government websites needed IE in the late 1990s/early 2000s.


    ... Operating system overwritten. Terribly sorry.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Jun 20 15:00:00 2019
    On 06-19-19 17:09, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I suppose that would be one use of ArcaOS. But a lot of people these
    days also choose to use a Linux distro to resurrect old systems that
    don't run newer versions of Windows very well. I suppose it depends on what you want to do with the system.

    Yeah, I'm considering another option being Qemu under Linux for my old BBS environment. I could at least run the DOS components, though having the full OS/2 functionality would be nice.


    ... He who hesitates is not only lost but miles from the next exit.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to BADOPCODE on Wed Jun 19 23:29:00 2019
    Oh speaking of... all this talk of OS/2. Went out and bought a copy of ArcaOS.
    They did a pretty good job on it. I'm working on porting a bunch of stuff. >Right now i'm working on Node JS... which is going ruff. Really rusty on >porting let alone OS/2. But having fun. Might work on porting Synch.

    That sounds interesting... good luck with it! Porting synch might also be interesting, especially if there is a demand for it.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ On a clear disk you can seek forever
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Wed Jun 19 23:43:00 2019
    time for Microsoft and Windows. I think Microsoft also intentionally tried to >dominate the web market by bundling Internet Explorer with Windows (so that >people would use it instead of other browsers) and then making Internet >Explorer behave a little differently from the standards so that web developers >would target Internet Explorer.

    You don't just think they did... they really did. They tried perverting
    some standard network communications protocols, too, in an effort to make
    other systems incompatible with theirs.

    ---
    ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ This tagline is umop apisdn
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dumas Walker on Thu Jun 20 21:56:00 2019
    On 06-19-19 19:43, Dumas Walker wrote to NIGHTFOX <=-

    You don't just think they did... they really did. They tried
    perverting some standard network communications protocols, too, in an effort to make other systems incompatible with theirs.

    The strategy was called "Embrace and Extend", where Microsoft would adopt a standard protocol and then put their own extensions on it, making standards based implementations of the protocol incompatible with theirs. Their software could usually work with other software written to the standard, except that some features may be missing.


    ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thu Jun 20 13:29:38 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Jun 20 2019 10:58 am

    I always thought of it as DOS 7. I can't recall what ver said it was. :)

    I've heard Microsoft was originally planning on releasing a MS-DOS 7, before deciding to include it with Windows 95.

    As a side note, a lot of people have said Windows ME was very bad,
    but I ran it for a little while and I didn't have a problem with
    it..

    It was known as "Windows Must Erase". :D

    I hadn't heard that before.. :)

    People said the same about Vista, but my Vista installations were rock solid. Sure it was resource heavy, but I found it more stable than XP. I think one of the reasons was I went for a clean 64 bit installation, so there were no legacy drivers kicking around. My last Vista installation has only just been decommissioned, because I needed the desktop for my Linux mail server. Since Linux is on a separate SSD, the Vista installation is actually still there.

    I tend to call it Windows Hasta La Vista.. :P I suppose Vista was okay, but the main problem is that it was resource heavy (like you said). Windows 7 addressed that issue.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Fri Jun 21 22:50:00 2019
    On 06-20-19 09:29, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've heard Microsoft was originally planning on releasing a MS-DOS 7, before deciding to include it with Windows 95.

    Yeah, I can't comment on that. :)

    As a side note, a lot of people have said Windows ME was very bad,
    but I ran it for a little while and I didn't have a problem with
    it..

    It was known as "Windows Must Erase". :D

    I hadn't heard that before.. :)

    Haha OK. I found it hit and miss. Some installations worked well, others were hopeless.

    I tend to call it Windows Hasta La Vista.. :P I suppose Vista was
    okay, but the main problem is that it was resource heavy (like you
    said). Windows 7 addressed that issue.

    Yes, that was my only real criticism of Vista, but if you threw hardware at it, it was quite good. I actually found it more stable than XP (going by minor hiccups and BSODs). :)


    ... Those who think they know it all, often upset those of us who do.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Badopcode@VERT/DHBBS to Hawkeye on Fri Jul 12 02:03:11 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: Hawkeye to Dumas Walker on Mon Jun 03 2019 07:55 pm

    Installing Netware was expert level compared to OS/2 or NT35... Netware 3.x was easier but 2.x was a pain in the ass... lol
    What about Netware 4.x for OS/2?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Darkest Hour BBS
  • From plt@VERT/SBBS to Nightfox on Mon Aug 5 04:53:19 2019
    Originally MS was going to release MS-DOS 7 and Windows 4.0. At the t


    Running a BBS that was the good old days. My first bbs system ran on a Trs-80 Color Computer three then I switched and ran it on a 386.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: New Mystic BBS (1:275/201.1)
    ■ Synchronet ■ sbbs.dynu.net 2025
  • From Milton@VERT/CRAZYW to Heliarc on Mon Aug 5 06:01:42 2019
    Re: Gratefull
    By: Heliarc to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 02 2019 22:37:42

    that can't be found elsewhere on the internet. I'm a "hacker". That means I

    Can you make a Keygen for Worldgroup 1.01 like the one for found for 3.xx?
    WG 1.xx Uses a 9 Digit Code to produce a serial #. Be nice to get an activation code by entering a serial #.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Crazy World Bbs - crazyworldbbs.com
  • From Zombie Mambo@VERT/ZZONE to plt on Wed Aug 7 17:39:46 2019
    Re: Re: Is this for real?
    By: plt to Nightfox on Mon Aug 05 2019 12:53 am

    Running a BBS that was the good old days. My first bbs system ran on a Trs-8
    Curious, what bbs software did you run on your CoCo3?
    Something you wrote yourself?
    I have a CoCo and CoCo2 as well as a Model 100.
    I wrote a dirty one on the Model100 just to test with success, but wanted to experiment with one using color basic on my cocos... I have modems.


    Thanks,
    Zombie Mambo

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ +-=[ The Zombie Zone BBS * hcow.dynu.net:61912 ]=-+