• Hybrid/Electric autos

    From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Wed Nov 4 12:09:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    was electric, and the power source was a combination of batteries and a small gas turbine that could run off a varierty of fuels.

    All electric locomotion does seem to make more sense than trying to
    split power with two engines.

    Although, I saw a Volvo XC90 (a full-size SUV) with carpool stickers
    and thought it was fraudulent. Read a little more and was intrigued.

    Volvo's hybrid system is to have a gas engine power the front wheels
    in a traditional FWD design. They took the driveshaft out, put the
    battery there, and put an electric motor in the rear axle. When you
    need AWD, the battery kicks in. When you're running on all electric,
    the ICE turns off and the car is RWD. Wonder how people will react to
    a car that could drive alternately from the front or back wheels?

    One concern would be when you *need* AWD, you'd need to have battery
    power. A long trip in the snow could drain the battery before you
    were out of the snow.




    It was
    essentially the same i dea behind a diesel electric locomotive. The turbine only runs to charge the batteries, and during a power outage
    you can use your car as a backup generator.

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  • From Ogg@VERT/EOTLBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Nov 4 23:22:59 2020
    On 04/11/2020 10:09 a.m., poindexter FORTRAN wrote:

    One concern would be when you *need* AWD, you'd need to
    have battery power. A long trip in the snow could drain
    the battery before you were out of the snow.

    Couldn't the car charge the battery when the gas-powered part is
    being used?

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Nov 5 00:02:00 2020
    Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed Nov 04 2020 07:09 am

    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    was electric, and the power source was a combination of batteries and a small gas turbine that could run off a varierty of fuels.

    All electric locomotion does seem to make more sense than trying to
    split power with two engines.

    Although, I saw a Volvo XC90 (a full-size SUV) with carpool stickers
    and thought it was fraudulent. Read a little more and was intrigued.

    Volvo's hybrid system is to have a gas engine power the front wheels
    in a traditional FWD design. They took the driveshaft out, put the
    battery there, and put an electric motor in the rear axle. When you
    need AWD, the battery kicks in. When you're running on all electric,
    the ICE turns off and the car is RWD. Wonder how people will react to
    a car that could drive alternately from the front or back wheels?

    One concern would be when you *need* AWD, you'd need to have battery
    power. A long trip in the snow could drain the battery before you
    were out of the snow.




    It was
    essentially the same i dea behind a diesel electric locomotive. The turbine only runs to charge the batteries, and during a power outage you can use your car as a backup generator.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

    ... Always the first steps

    The only advantage I see to having the gas engine inline with the electric motor is it's easier to spin up the gas engine using the electirc motor
    torque rather than putting wear on your starter.

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Nov 6 02:59:00 2020
    On 11-04-20 07:09, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Moondog <=-

    One concern would be when you *need* AWD, you'd need to have battery
    power. A long trip in the snow could drain the battery before you
    were out of the snow.

    So no onboard power generation for the electric motors?


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thu Nov 5 19:09:09 2020
    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: Vk3jed to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Nov 05 2020 09:59 pm

    One concern would be when you *need* AWD, you'd need to have battery
    power. A long trip in the snow could drain the battery before you
    were out of the snow.

    So no onboard power generation for the electric motors?

    I believe some electric vehicles might use things like regenerative braking & such to put some charge back into the battery, but as far as I know, I don't think they have anything that provides more significant energy generation than that.

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sat Nov 7 00:31:00 2020
    On 11-05-20 14:09, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I believe some electric vehicles might use things like regenerative braking & such to put some charge back into the battery, but as far as
    I know, I don't think they have anything that provides more significant energy generation than that.

    Hmm, OK, so obviously there's no generator attached to that gas engine...


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 6 13:21:15 2020
    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Fri Nov 06 2020 07:31 pm

    I believe some electric vehicles might use things like regenerative
    braking & such to put some charge back into the battery, but as far
    as I know, I don't think they have anything that provides more
    significant energy generation than that.

    Hmm, OK, so obviously there's no generator attached to that gas engine...

    I don't remember what vehicle was being discussed, but I've heard of some that use electric motors to drive the wheels, and the gas engine is only there to be a generator to generate electricity when the battery charge is too low.

    Nightfox

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Ogg on Fri Nov 6 22:19:00 2020
    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: Ogg to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Nov 04 2020 06:22 pm

    On 04/11/2020 10:09 a.m., poindexter FORTRAN wrote:

    One concern would be when you *need* AWD, you'd need to
    have battery power. A long trip in the snow could drain
    the battery before you were out of the snow.

    Couldn't the car charge the battery when the gas-powered part is
    being used?

    Depends on how the driveline was designed. In a Prius, the gas engine and elctric motor are inline, so when the gas engine runs, the electric motor becomes a generator. For a hybrid drive that has two independent
    drivetrains, a generator would still be required to charge the battery or use the battery to condition the electricty to directly run the electric motors. Having an electric motor plus a stand alone generator would add to the price considerably.

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sun Nov 8 00:41:00 2020
    On 11-06-20 08:21, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I don't remember what vehicle was being discussed, but I've heard of
    some that use electric motors to drive the wheels, and the gas engine
    is only there to be a generator to generate electricity when the
    battery charge is too low.

    The so-called "serial hybrid", there the electric motors do all the drive work and the gas engine is just there to generate electricity, just like in a diesel electric locomotive. This was talked about as far back as the 80s, and it was suggested a smaller gas engine could be used, because it can run under optimum conditions (power, RPM, etc) more efficiently than having to handle varying loads at different RPM.

    But the "parallel hybrids" like the Prius seem to be the more popular choice, which must have more mechanical complexity to combine the drive power of both electric and gas mechanically.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Fri Nov 6 12:01:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    The only advantage I see to having the gas engine inline with the
    electric motor is it's easier to spin up the gas engine using the
    electirc motor torque rather than putting wear on your starter.

    Exactly. The Prius tries to start off on electric, then the ICE kicks
    in once the car is rolling. I don't think I've ever heard a starter,
    not sure if it has one!

    It does have a combination of a traction battery for motion and a 12v
    battery used for the electrical system; my 12v battery is probably
    due to be replaced soon.



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 6 12:03:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    One concern would be when you *need* AWD, you'd need to have battery
    power. A long trip in the snow could drain the battery before you
    were out of the snow.

    So no onboard power generation for the electric motors?

    I don't know, I assume it'd have to be able to split gasoline power
    between the generator and the wheels to maintain AWD, instead of
    going gas-only and charging.




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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sat Nov 7 13:30:41 2020
    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat Nov 07 2020 07:41 pm

    The so-called "serial hybrid", there the electric motors do all the drive work and the gas engine is just there to generate electricity, just like in a diesel electric locomotive. This was talked about as far back as the 80s, and it was suggested a smaller gas engine could be used, because it can run under optimum conditions (power, RPM, etc) more efficiently than having to handle varying loads at different RPM.

    But the "parallel hybrids" like the Prius seem to be the more popular choice, which must have more mechanical complexity to combine the drive power of both electric and gas mechanically.

    I suppose the parallel hybrids do seem to be more popular. One serial hybrid in the US was the Chevrolet Volt, and I heard Chevrolet has discontinued that model a year or two ago. I thought it was odd to hear they discontinued it.

    Nightfox

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to NIGHTFOX on Sat Nov 7 16:10:00 2020
    I don't remember what vehicle was being discussed, but I've heard of some that >se electric motors to drive the wheels, and the gas engine is only there to be
    generator to generate electricity when the battery charge is too low.

    Diesel-electric locomotives do something similar to this.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Sat Nov 7 13:32:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to Nightfox <=-

    The so-called "serial hybrid", there the electric motors do all the
    drive work and the gas engine is just there to generate electricity,
    just like in a diesel electric locomotive. This was talked about as
    far back as the 80s, and it was suggested a smaller gas engine could be used, because it can run under optimum conditions (power, RPM, etc)
    more efficiently than having to handle varying loads at different RPM.

    Yeah, I think that confused the buyers. The Chevy Volt was one, and
    the BMW i3 with the range extender - both sold pretty well, though.

    I wonder if a used i3 might be a cheap deal, would expect BMW
    replacement batteries to cost an arm and a leg.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 8 23:36:00 2020
    On 11-06-20 07:03, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I don't know, I assume it'd have to be able to split gasoline power
    between the generator and the wheels to maintain AWD, instead of
    going gas-only and charging.

    One would hope so. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sun Nov 8 23:38:00 2020
    On 11-07-20 08:30, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I suppose the parallel hybrids do seem to be more popular. One serial hybrid in the US was the Chevrolet Volt, and I heard Chevrolet has discontinued that model a year or two ago. I thought it was odd to
    hear they discontinued it.

    Hmm, I wonder why, in this era of increasing use of electric cars.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 8 23:46:00 2020
    On 11-07-20 08:32, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yeah, I think that confused the buyers. The Chevy Volt was one, and
    the BMW i3 with the range extender - both sold pretty well, though.

    Probably. Most buyers aren't up with the tech details. :/

    I wonder if a used i3 might be a cheap deal, would expect BMW
    replacement batteries to cost an arm and a leg.

    I think you'd be right on both grounds.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sun Nov 8 13:57:50 2020
    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun Nov 08 2020 06:38 pm

    I suppose the parallel hybrids do seem to be more popular. One
    serial hybrid in the US was the Chevrolet Volt, and I heard
    Chevrolet has discontinued that model a year or two ago. I thought
    it was odd to hear they discontinued it.

    Hmm, I wonder why, in this era of increasing use of electric cars.

    Chevrolet has another car called the Spark, which is a fully electric car. I wondered if they discontinued the Volt so they could sell more of the Spark.

    Nightfox

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 8 20:01:00 2020
    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Vk3jed on Fri Nov 06 2020 07:03 am

    Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    One concern would be when you *need* AWD, you'd need to have battery
    power. A long trip in the snow could drain the battery before you
    were out of the snow.

    So no onboard power generation for the electric motors?

    I don't know, I assume it'd have to be able to split gasoline power
    between the generator and the wheels to maintain AWD, instead of
    going gas-only and charging.




    ... Use something nearby as a model

    That is assuming it has a discreet generator opposed to a dual purpose genny/ motor.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Sun Nov 8 20:25:00 2020
    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sat Nov 07 2020 08:30 am

    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat Nov 07 2020 07:41 pm

    The so-called "serial hybrid", there the electric motors do all the dri work and the gas engine is just there to generate electricity, just lik in a diesel electric locomotive. This was talked about as far back as t 80s, and it was suggested a smaller gas engine could be used, because i can run under optimum conditions (power, RPM, etc) more efficiently tha having to handle varying loads at different RPM.

    But the "parallel hybrids" like the Prius seem to be the more popular choice, which must have more mechanical complexity to combine the drive power of both electric and gas mechanically.

    I suppose the parallel hybrids do seem to be more popular. One serial hybri

    Nightfox


    Six factors killed the Volt. Sales during the recovery years were low.
    Price was $10k higher than Prius even after several price cuts. Gas prices dropped, killing interest. Competition from the Nissan Leaf and the introduction of several Prius models, plus Tesla covering the luxury end drew away sales. GM decided to drop hybrid models in favor of going forward all electric only vehicles. The last was lower interest in non-luxury sedans. More folks would rather own as SUV's or luxury crossovers.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Sun Nov 8 20:50:00 2020
    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Sun Nov 08 2020 08:57 am

    Re: Re: Hybrid/Electric autos
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun Nov 08 2020 06:38 pm

    I suppose the parallel hybrids do seem to be more popular. One
    serial hybrid in the US was the Chevrolet Volt, and I heard
    Chevrolet has discontinued that model a year or two ago. I thought
    it was odd to hear they discontinued it.

    Hmm, I wonder why, in this era of increasing use of electric cars.

    Chevrolet has another car called the Spark, which is a fully electric car.

    Nightfox

    GM dropped all hybrids in favor of EV only vehicles.

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wed Nov 11 23:38:00 2020
    On 11-08-20 08:57, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Chevrolet has another car called the Spark, which is a fully electric
    car. I wondered if they discontinued the Volt so they could sell more
    of the Spark.

    That would make sense.


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