• Telegram

    From apam@21:1/125 to All on Mon Oct 15 17:14:04 2018
    Hi

    Does anyone use this? https://telegram.org/

    I'm thinking about making a MagickaBBS channel as another method of
    support, instead of IRC (I was thinking about IRC, but can't really idle
    in there forever).

    It is opensource, encrypted, and runs on Mac, PC and Linux as well as iOS
    and android. It also has an API which I think I could build a bridge to echomail.

    If you want to join me click here: http://t.me/magickabbs

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Mon Oct 15 23:47:42 2018
    On 10/15/18, apam pondered and said...

    Does anyone use this? https://telegram.org/

    I'm thinking about making a MagickaBBS channel as another method of support, instead of IRC (I was thinking about IRC, but can't really idle in there forever).

    It is opensource, encrypted, and runs on Mac, PC and Linux as well as iOS and android. It also has an API which I think I could build a bridge to echomail.

    If you want to join me click here: http://t.me/magickabbs


    How does it differ from say Keybase Andrew? At first blush it looks like the same kind of thing. I think...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Mon Oct 15 21:11:08 2018
    How does it differ from say Keybase Andrew? At first blush it looks
    like the same kind of thing. I think...

    It's similar, but I think it focuses more on messaging. Plus it doesn't
    throw an error every time I start my computer. :)

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Tiny@21:1/130.4 to apam on Mon Oct 15 11:36:16 2018
    Quoting apam to All <=-

    If you want to join me click here: http://t.me/magickabbs

    I joined and will check it out! I've been using wire for a while but
    recently my iphone screen died and being short on cash I've had to go back
    to an old blackberry q5 I had 7 years ago. <Laugh> Saving money as quick
    as I can to replace the iphone.

    Shawn

    ... I used to get high on life but lately I've built up a resistance.
    --- Blue Wave/386
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (21:1/130.4)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Tiny on Mon Oct 15 23:56:17 2018
    Quoting apam to All <=-

    If you want to join me click here: http://t.me/magickabbs

    I joined and will check it out!

    Ok, so newbie me made a channel instead of a group. I've made a group as
    well now groups you can chat in, seems channels are just for
    announcements.

    https://t.me/MagickaBBS_Group

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to apam on Tue Oct 16 02:14:00 2018
    On 10-15-18 13:14, apam wrote to All <=-

    Hi

    Does anyone use this? https://telegram.org/

    Yeah, I've used it for years. Quite good. Some interesting ideas there.


    ... Politics = Poly(many) + tics(blood sucking parasites)
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    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to apam on Tue Oct 16 00:01:22 2018

    On Sunday, October 14th apam muttered...
    Does anyone use this? https://telegram.org/

    Have never used that, but FWIW there are a lot of BBSers on Discord.



    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.9-alpha (linux; x64; 8.9.4)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to NuSkooler on Tue Oct 16 20:54:02 2018

    On 10/15/18, NuSkooler pondered and said...


    On Sunday, October 14th apam muttered...
    Does anyone use this? https://telegram.org/

    Have never used that, but FWIW there are a lot of BBSers on Discord.

    Where abouts and why? Just curious.

    As a general comment I find it really interesting BBSers want to have conversations on mediums like Discord, Facebook etc. perhaps at the expense
    of BBS? Dunno.. Just putting it out there.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Tue Oct 16 18:17:31 2018
    As a general comment I find it really interesting BBSers want to have conversations on mediums like Discord, Facebook etc. perhaps at the
    expense of BBS? Dunno.. Just putting it out there.

    The idea of using telegram was to have something a bit more instantaneous
    and people could get help quicker, easier and not necessarily from me.
    There is also always the case of those who may need help setting up
    echomail, and if echomail is the only way to get help, it's a bit of a
    catch 22.

    Maybe I'm fragmenting things further by setting up telegram, and if it
    doesn't work out I can always turn it off. Ideally it would be nice to
    have everyone ask questions in a single echo area instead of via email,
    tiny's local message bases etc.. but that doesn't seem to happen.

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Tue Oct 16 23:35:33 2018
    On 10/16/18, apam pondered and said...

    The idea of using telegram was to have something a bit more instantaneous and people could get help quicker, easier and not necessarily from me. There is also always the case of those who may need help setting up echomail, and if echomail is the only way to get help, it's a bit of a catch 22.

    I'm not sure it's quicker or easier but I guess it depends on what you're comparing it against. Those who are setting up echomail clearly need help to
    do so from other means. My comment was more around once set up the level of chatter asking for help about x,y,z using means other than echomail that sits outside the BBS experience. Not saying they shouldn't be doing this or that, but just observing how a hobby discussion can take place in places and
    space that are not really anything to do with the core hobby.

    I see this in Facebook groups quite a bit for BBSing. But if that's where
    folks choose to go to solve their BBS issues, well that's their choice.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Tue Oct 16 21:30:05 2018
    around once set up the level of chatter asking for help about x,y,z
    using means other than echomail that sits outside the BBS experience.

    I don't really know why people do things, but I guess it's people post
    for help where they think they're most likely to get help, perhaps
    convenience is also a factor - ie you can check facebook or whatever on
    your phone, where as it might not be possible to connect to your favorite
    bbs, or at least not as convenient.

    Perhaps people have been rewired to use facebook, and so it's more
    natural to go there without thinking, than it is to go to the BBS these
    days.

    I see this in Facebook groups quite a bit for BBSing. But if that's
    where folks choose to go to solve their BBS issues, well that's their choice.

    I must not be in the right facebook groups, as all I ever see these days
    is ads for BBSes.

    People are going to go where they're going to go I guess, it would be
    nice to be able to tie them together somehow though.

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Avon on Tue Oct 16 20:50:26 2018

    On Monday, October 15th Avon was heard saying...
    As a general comment I find it really interesting BBSers want to have conversations on mediums like Discord, Facebook etc. perhaps at the expense of BBS? Dunno.. Just putting it out there.

    As much as I love BBSing, it's not really possible to remain connected to a BBS
    backed chat room across multiple machines & mobile platforms.

    Anyway, just like IRC, there are BBS mods to do just that with Discord.



    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.9-alpha (linux; x64; 8.9.4)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From echicken to Avon on Tue Oct 16 23:09:43 2018
    Re: Re: Telegram
    By: Avon to NuSkooler on Tue Oct 16 2018 16:54:02

    As a general comment I find it really interesting BBSers want to have conversations on mediums like Discord, Facebook etc. perhaps at the expense of BBS? Dunno.. Just putting it out there.

    I don't personally understand using Facebook for this, but I already dislike the platform and assume that any BBS groups there are cesspools.

    Some situations really do benefit from real-time chat rather than being dragged out for days in a message area. I like IRC for this (and it can be made available to users on your BBS) but really Discord etc. can get the same job done. Support/troubleshooting is often easier in this context, vs. being seven days into a message thread and trying to recall the particulars of the other party's setup.

    Of course this also has drawbacks. You're at the mercy of who's online and willing to chat at any given time, so it's luck of the draw. I see a few frustrated people now and then who don't understand this and are annoyed at the lack of immediate response.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to apam on Tue Oct 16 22:44:40 2018
    I don't really know why people do things, but I guess it's people post
    for help where they think they're most likely to get help, perhaps convenience is also a factor - ie you can check facebook or whatever on your phone, where as it might not be possible to connect to your
    favorite bbs, or at least not as convenient.

    You've hit upon something there. If I want to connect to a FB group about BBSing during my lunch break, I can do so on my phone. I would need to use
    my work PC to log onto a web BBS, and I am pretty sure that is frowned
    upon. :)




    ... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636 * SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to echicken on Wed Oct 17 18:40:00 2018
    On 10-16-18 19:09, echicken wrote to Avon <=-

    Some situations really do benefit from real-time chat rather than being dragged out for days in a message area. I like IRC for this (and it
    can be made available to users on your BBS) but really Discord etc. can

    IRC is fine, if everyone happens to be on at the same time. But due to a combination of time zone and keeping an odd, erratic schedule (even for locals!), Telegram tends to work much better than IRC, because of its ability to give notifications. I tend to leave IRC in the background and forget it's there. :(

    Discord, that's voice conferencing, isn't it? Voice is of no use to me, practically inaccessible, because I rarely have a free environment for voice, but text is a lot easier.

    But I agree, having multiple support options, including echomail, is the best.


    ... I do not think it means what you think it means.
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    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Blue White on Wed Oct 17 18:43:00 2018
    On 10-16-18 18:44, Blue White wrote to apam <=-

    You've hit upon something there. If I want to connect to a FB group
    about BBSing during my lunch break, I can do so on my phone. I would
    need to use my work PC to log onto a web BBS, and I am pretty sure that
    is frowned upon. :)

    You could access a BBS running ecwebv4 on your phone without too much drama. :)


    ... Don't go to work, there's a lot to do.
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    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Blue White on Wed Oct 17 18:06:33 2018
    I don't really know why people do things, but I guess it's people
    for help where they think they're most likely to get help, perhap convenience is also a factor - ie you can check facebook or whate
    your phone, where as it might not be possible to connect to your favorite bbs, or at least not as convenient.

    You've hit upon something there. If I want to connect to a FB group
    about BBSing during my lunch break, I can do so on my phone. I would
    need to use my work PC to log onto a web BBS, and I am pretty sure
    that is frowned upon. :)

    I put a lot of work into the web interface for magicka, trying to get it
    to work ok on Mobile. I didn't really succeed though - how do you fit 80 columns of ansi rendered text without scrolling or making the font
    impossibly small?

    I'm definitely not a web designer either so that doesn't help lol

    Andrew



    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From echicken to Vk3jed on Wed Oct 17 04:10:55 2018
    Re: Re: Telegram
    By: Vk3jed to echicken on Wed Oct 17 2018 14:40:00

    locals!), Telegram tends to work much better than IRC, because of its ability to give notifications. I tend to leave IRC in the background and

    That really depends on your IRC client. It's not an inherent limitation in the protocol. I have no suggestions in this regard; what I use is fairly basic.

    Discord, that's voice conferencing, isn't it? Voice is of no use to me,

    I haven't used it much, just tried it a couple of times to see what it was about. It struck me as mostly a flashy IRC analogue, mostly text chat with the option of voice. It was like an ugly Slack. Popular among gamers, I gather.

    But I agree, having multiple support options, including echomail, is the best.

    On one hand, I like having lots of stuff going on so I don't mind engaging via a bunch of different channels. On the other hand it's a bit annoying to have a bunch of different clients / channels that perform the same function. Bit of a toss-up.

    Would be nice if there were more of a central gathering place; more users, more chatter. An IRC network with general BBS chat and software-specific channels, etc. The last time I was a part of something like that it was a lot of fun, though admittedly I didn't always make it a better place, being younger and more of a jerk then. :D

    I could go on and on. I've always enjoyed online communication, IRC-like or otherwise, so I enjoy trying different methods and considering the possibilities. I didn't care too much about computers until the first time I saw a BBS and realized ... wow, there's a whole world in there.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
  • From echicken to apam on Wed Oct 17 04:20:01 2018
    Re: Re: Telegram
    By: apam to Blue White on Wed Oct 17 2018 14:06:33

    I put a lot of work into the web interface for magicka, trying to get it to work ok on Mobile. I didn't really succeed though - how do you fit 80 columns of ansi rendered text without scrolling or making the font impossibly small?

    Drop the ANSI rendering. Strip the extra junk out and just make it look like normal web content. Forget about 80 columns. Unwrap lines if need be. Maybe add a toggle for "BBS view" so the user can see certain content the way it was intended (BBS ads, etc.); the majority of messages are just plain text and don't need this.

    IMHO most attempts to make a website (or some content therein) look like a textmode BBS end up looking tacky and very ugly.

    Also, find some front-end framework that's good at scaling from mobile to desktop. I use Bootstrap; I'm sure an actual front-end web dev would have other opinions. (I'm more for the server-side of things, and muddle around in the browser when I need to.)

    I'm definitely not a web designer either so that doesn't help lol

    Nor I. I just lean on my opinionated and probably often wrong aesthetic sense. Synchronet was in sore need of a new web UI; I'm now on my fourth effort toward making something decent. Can't say that I've entirely succeeded, but I'm getting there.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
  • From apam@21:1/125 to echicken on Wed Oct 17 18:27:05 2018
    Would be nice if there were more of a central gathering place; more
    users, more chatter. An IRC network with general BBS chat and software-specific channels, etc. The last time I was a part of
    something like that it was a lot of fun, though admittedly I didn't
    always make it a better place, being younger and more of a jerk then.
    :D

    I totally agree with this. My problem with IRC is only that I can't idle
    24/7, and as there is no backlog when I log in I miss peoples questions. Telegram seems to have this.

    But yeah I agree, it would be nice to have things more centralized, even
    with message networks. I imagine DM being a little frustrated with people posting Synchronet questions in fsxnet, sure there are people here who
    may be able to answer them, but it means if he wants to know what's going
    on he has multiple places to keep an eye out.

    I like how dovenet exports(?) to fidonet, so even if people are not on
    dovenet they can participate. I wish that were the case with all the bbs softwares, and possibly connected to all the nets. Sort of like multiple carriers of the same content. Say dovenet had FSX_MYS and fsxnet had the synchronet area. While they can keep their exlusive areas, there is also
    some overlap.

    I dunno. Maybe it's the beer talking. I've had a few ;P

    Andrew



    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to echicken on Wed Oct 17 18:35:29 2018
    Also, find some front-end framework that's good at scaling from
    mobile to desktop. I use Bootstrap; I'm sure an actual front-end web
    dev would have other opinions. (I'm more for the server-side of
    things, and muddle around in the browser when I need to.)

    Yep I'm using bootstrap these days, it works pretty well. I'll think
    about your suggestion of removing the ANSI rendering, or at least making
    it optional, and have different defaults on the desktop vs mobile.

    I'm definitely not a web designer either so that doesn't help lol

    Nor I. I just lean on my opinionated and probably often wrong
    aesthetic sense.
    Synchronet was in sore need of a new web UI; I'm now on my fourth
    effort toward making something decent. Can't say that I've entirely succeeded, but I'm getting there.

    You've done a pretty good job! I've seen your work on some BBSes I visit.
    For myself I don't mean I'm not able to see what looks good and what
    doesn't. I just lack the skills to implement my ideas. What I have done involved a lot of googling CSS syntax etc :P

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Wed Oct 17 23:15:23 2018
    On 10/17/18, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    But I agree, having multiple support options, including echomail, is the best.

    I agree with this. For me being able to read a thread and take part in a conversation in writing that can span multiple time zones is enjoyable. By having something written you can review it again and track back through a thread if you need to in order to clarify something you might has missed or misunderstood. I can see how Facebook caters to that with a post and
    comments etc. But I also can't really see any difference in those terms
    between posting in BBS echomail vs doing on FB (for example)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Wed Oct 17 23:17:41 2018
    On 10/17/18, apam pondered and said...

    You've hit upon something there. If I want to connect to a FB group about BBSing during my lunch break, I can do so on my phone. I would need to use my work PC to log onto a web BBS, and I am pretty sure that is frowned upon. :)

    I put a lot of work into the web interface for magicka, trying to get it to work ok on Mobile. I didn't really succeed though - how do you fit 80 columns of ansi rendered text without scrolling or making the font impossibly small?


    Answer is you don't.. just display ASCII menu options... I use a telnet client on my iPhone daily to check and reply to messages. I only need cell data and
    I can access messages anywhere. :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to echicken on Wed Oct 17 23:21:31 2018
    On 10/17/18, echicken pondered and said...

    Discord, that's voice conferencing, isn't it? Voice is of no use to m

    I haven't used it much, just tried it a couple of times to see what it
    was about. It struck me as mostly a flashy IRC analogue, mostly text
    chat with the option of voice. It was like an ugly Slack. Popular
    among gamers, I gather.

    Ditto... my daughter uses it in gaming circles to chat with other teens while she plays a group game on a platform like Robolox etc.

    On one hand, I like having lots of stuff going on so I don't mind
    engaging via a bunch of different channels. On the other hand it's a
    bit annoying to have a bunch of different clients / channels that
    perform the same function. Bit of a toss-up.

    I prefer the latter, one of the main reasons for few echos in fsxNet is
    exactly that reason..

    Would be nice if there were more of a central gathering place; more
    users, more chatter. An IRC network with general BBS chat and software-specific channels, etc. The last time I was a part of
    something like that it was a lot of fun, though admittedly I didn't
    always make it a better place, being younger and more of a jerk then. :D

    I could go on and on. I've always enjoyed online communication,

    Me too :) In the end folks opt to go where folks opt to go for their online chatter... but I agree it seems so nutty to create more and more options especially if it's mostly the same users active in all communication
    channels.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Wed Oct 17 23:36:23 2018
    On 10/17/18, apam pondered and said...

    Would be nice if there were more of a central gathering place; more users, more chatter. An IRC network with general BBS chat and

    I totally agree with this. My problem with IRC is only that I can't idle 24/7, and as there is no backlog when I log in I miss peoples questions.

    [snip]

    But yeah I agree, it would be nice to have things more centralized, even with message networks. I imagine DM being a little frustrated with people

    Here's the thing if people opt (like both you and I did, as well as many
    others who are members of this network) to set up their own message networks ... how can this goal be realistically achieved? It's like asking for less
    when everyone is creating more.

    with message networks. I imagine DM being a little frustrated with people posting Synchronet questions in fsxnet, sure there are people here who
    may be able to answer them, but it means if he wants to know what's going on he has multiple places to keep an eye out.

    I don't know if he is/isn't frustrated as you put it, we could always ask?
    But that aside again a main here issue is that there are just multiple places for people to gather online and opt to post stuff (or not) about topics that may (or not) interest others that are also across the same online spaces.

    I tend to think there are also issues of critical mass (I mean by this the numbers of those active in a given online space) and what the community culture (how we treat each other, our collective values etc.) is like that come in to play that drives online activity and usage (or not).

    It's those latter things that (I'd suggest) drive the motivations for folks to create their new online spaces to interact with. Some networks I'd probably
    not opt to join for the above reasons, others I may do. But I can you that it takes time and energy to just maintain and stay active in one online space
    let alone 3-6 more :) So I'm personally in no great rush to sign up to lots
    of new spaces/places unless I can see real benefits to me to do so.

    Best, Paul

    PS this is not a rant at you etc. I'm really just thinking and typing as I go so wanted to make it clear that no annoyance or anything like that should be inferred in my tone. And that is one area where written does fall down over voice / video because we can only read something and then infer (some times incorrectly) any emotional overtones etc. in what is typed. :) <-- hence I
    use a lot of these as you know :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Wed Oct 17 20:43:26 2018
    Me too :) In the end folks opt to go where folks opt to go for their
    online chatter... but I agree it seems so nutty to create more and
    more options especially if it's mostly the same users active in all communication channels.

    I don't see it as nutty. Conversations are already fragmented over many different echo nets, be it fidonet, dovenet, fsxnet, agoranet, retronet, insert-name-net etc. Then there is mRC, IRC, discord, facebook, youtube
    etc.

    It would suggest there isn't a single all encompassing method that works.
    So my thinking is perhaps we need to step back and find a way of either carrying these conversations over a variety of methods, or finding a new
    method that works, else put up with the fragmentation.

    For one thing, people are always starting new nets. For whatever reason.
    What if there was a way to carry common echo areas across all nets, then
    people could experiment and play and still keep the conversations
    together. What if an IRC bot, telegram bot etc could relay messages to
    said echo areas as well?

    BBSes are fun, we can all agree on that, involving our BBSes in our conversations is fun (else what else would we have them for) but how can
    we carry these conversations those who either cant or don't want to use a
    bbs at a particular time for whatever reason?

    Just some thoughts. I'm on my second six-pack, so ymmv :P

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Wed Oct 17 20:47:44 2018
    Hey Paul

    Going to snip that reply and flag it (cos I can do that on magicka :P)
    and re-read it later, I'm a bit drunk now lol.

    Just want to say I don't think you're ranting at me, and I hope you don't
    think I am at you. Just passionatly trying to get my thoughts out in text
    :P Besides these are all just ideas and thoughts, and subject to change,
    you may change my mind on matters, I may change yours, it's not that
    important and I value you and your friendship more than such particulars.


    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Wed Oct 17 23:53:20 2018

    On 10/17/18, apam pondered and said...

    I don't see it as nutty. Conversations are already fragmented over many different echo nets, be it fidonet, dovenet, fsxnet, agoranet, retronet, insert-name-net etc. Then there is mRC, IRC, discord, facebook, youtube etc.

    Yep I agree

    It would suggest there isn't a single all encompassing method that works. So my thinking is perhaps we need to step back and find a way of either carrying these conversations over a variety of methods, or finding a new method that works, else put up with the fragmentation.

    Yeah the crux of the issue being discussed is, is there an issue / problem or not? And I think like all curly ones the answer becomes 'it all depends' because depending on how someone views all of this stuff that we're riffing about.. will in turn guide their view of it being a problem or a non issue.

    I don;t think the world will stop spinning either way :) But if you hit your next six pack somethings may appear more wobbly than they really are ;-p Just saying :)

    For one thing, people are always starting new nets. For whatever reason. What if there was a way to carry common echo areas across all nets, then people could experiment and play and still keep the conversations together. What if an IRC bot, telegram bot etc could relay messages to said echo areas as well?

    This idea has been mooted before perhaps by you?? Not sure. In any regard yep
    I agree it might work well if others opt in. You could say it already is in place in that gateways between say Usenet and Fidonet or Usenet/fsxNet play a similar role... bridging content between to discrete networks.

    BBSes are fun, we can all agree on that, involving our BBSes in our conversations is fun (else what else would we have them for) but how can we carry these conversations those who either cant or don't want to use a bbs at a particular time for whatever reason?


    I need a beer to reflect on this, and perhaps some sleep and others to chime
    in as well :)

    Just some thoughts. I'm on my second six-pack, so ymmv :P

    I've really enjoyed this chat... and note we didn't discuss clouds and rain once ;-)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Wed Oct 17 23:54:32 2018
    On 10/17/18, apam pondered and said...

    Hey Paul

    Going to snip that reply and flag it (cos I can do that on magicka :P)
    and re-read it later, I'm a bit drunk now lol.

    Heh :)

    Just want to say I don't think you're ranting at me, and I hope you don't think I am at you. Just passionatly trying to get my thoughts out in text :P Besides these are all just ideas and thoughts, and subject to change,

    No and same :)

    important and I value you and your friendship more than such particulars.

    Ditto and have a good zzzzz... :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Wed Oct 17 21:07:48 2018
    I've really enjoyed this chat... and note we didn't discuss clouds
    and rain once ;-)

    LOL we didn't. I'm really not good at getting my thoughts across. I never
    meant to infer that talking about the weather is a bad thing, just if
    that's all we ever do it could get old. :)

    I guess for me I'm coming from a place with Magicka at the center. Yeah
    I've not been as active as I should be and I've talked a whole lot more
    than I've coded lately, but it seems to be picking up a little bit.
    Magicka doesn't have a specific home. I tried it with HappyNetX, but
    perhaps I didn't push it enough but it didn't happen ie it's been a bit
    of a flop. FSX_BBS is the next best thing but it's shared by synchronet
    and whatever not mystic specific bbs question there is. So Magicka
    doesn't really have a place to call home that people can associate
    Magicka = this place. (Like synchronet = dovenet, mystic = fsx_mys etc)/

    What I'd really like, and am to afraid to ask, is for a seperate channel
    on fsxnet that I could gate between happynetx, and call it home. It might
    not get the traffic that is needed for an fsxnet area, but it would mean
    I can say both fsxnet is home and for the tinkerer happynetx is.

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to echicken on Wed Oct 17 21:37:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 00:10, echicken wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    That really depends on your IRC client. It's not an inherent
    limitation in the protocol. I have no suggestions in this regard; what
    I use is fairly basic.

    Yeah, Telegram does it pretty well. You can have multiple clients logged in (e.g. desktop and mobile), and they all keep up with each other, so swapping from one to another is seamless, unlike IRC. And you get the same level of notification on both. You can independently set notifications on each group or individual chat.

    Discord, that's voice conferencing, isn't it? Voice is of no use to me,

    I haven't used it much, just tried it a couple of times to see what it
    was about. It struck me as mostly a flashy IRC analogue, mostly text
    chat with the option of voice. It was like an ugly Slack. Popular
    among gamers, I gather.

    Yeah, Discord is aimed at gamers. I have it, though I haven't played with it really.

    But I agree, having multiple support options, including echomail, is the best.

    On one hand, I like having lots of stuff going on so I don't mind
    engaging via a bunch of different channels. On the other hand it's a
    bit annoying to have a bunch of different clients / channels that
    perform the same function. Bit of a toss-up.

    Yeah, though I have the clients available anyway. Chat to enough people and it's like herding cats. :)

    Would be nice if there were more of a central gathering place; more
    users, more chatter. An IRC network with general BBS chat and software-specific channels, etc. The last time I was a part of
    something like that it was a lot of fun, though admittedly I didn't
    always make it a better place, being younger and more of a jerk then.
    :D

    Hahaha mellowed with age have we? :) Yeah, that could be a good network. Not sure how it would go today. In any case, I should setup an IRC client again and leave it logged into irc.synchro.net and the Mystic server. :)

    I could go on and on. I've always enjoyed online communication,
    IRC-like or otherwise, so I enjoy trying different methods and
    considering the possibilities. I didn't care too much about computers until the first time I saw a BBS and realized ... wow, there's a whole world in there.

    Yeah, I originally got into computers for what they could do computation wise, started learning a bit of programmming, which became a bit more formal in Pascal through school and university (was quite proficient in Turbo Pascal on CP/M and DOS). Then at the end of my second year in university, I hit a rough patch in life and discovered programming wasn't good for my mental health, though I was quite proficient at it. I walked away from programming and my interest in computers took a back seat until I discovered BBSs and networking. Then my interest in computers came back, once I realised they were a great means of connecting to people. Like you, I love online communication, and I'm still hooked on it. :)


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    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Wed Oct 17 21:38:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 19:15, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @TZ: 030c
    On 10/17/18, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    But I agree, having multiple support options, including echomail, is the best.

    I agree with this. For me being able to read a thread and take part in
    a conversation in writing that can span multiple time zones is
    enjoyable. By having something written you can review it again and
    track back through a thread if you need to in order to clarify
    something you might has missed or misunderstood. I can see how Facebook caters to that with a post and comments etc. But I also can't really
    see any difference in those terms between posting in BBS echomail vs
    doing on FB (for example)

    I do prefer echomail to Facebook for BBS support, but IRC and other real time chat media have their place too. :)
    ... This message has been UNIXized for your protection.
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    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to apam on Wed Oct 17 22:05:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 14:27, apam wrote to echicken <=-

    I totally agree with this. My problem with IRC is only that I can't
    idle 24/7, and as there is no backlog when I log in I miss peoples questions. Telegram seems to have this.

    Yeah, I would have to leave a client idling for that. As you say, Telegram doesn't have this issue, you get the backlog. :)

    But yeah I agree, it would be nice to have things more centralized,
    even with message networks. I imagine DM being a little frustrated with people posting Synchronet questions in fsxnet, sure there are people
    here who may be able to answer them, but it means if he wants to know what's going on he has multiple places to keep an eye out.

    Not a biggie, because he can take a feed of them all if he wants. I get all messages to me in the one place (usually a QWK packet :) ), so it doesn't matter what net they come in on, provided I'm linked in (unlike web forums where you have to log into each system individually).

    I like how dovenet exports(?) to fidonet, so even if people are not on dovenet they can participate. I wish that were the case with all the
    bbs softwares, and possibly connected to all the nets. Sort of like

    Well, that's a simple matter of gating, which Synchronet does really well. As for what is gated where depends on the agreements between network operators.

    multiple carriers of the same content. Say dovenet had FSX_MYS and
    fsxnet had the synchronet area. While they can keep their exlusive
    areas, there is also some overlap.

    I dunno. Maybe it's the beer talking. I've had a few ;P

    It's technically feasible and dead simple. DM could do it himself, or someone like me could, but only if both networks agreed it's a good thing.


    ... If some people said what they thought, they'd be speechless.
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    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to apam on Wed Oct 17 22:07:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 14:35, apam wrote to echicken <=-

    Also, find some front-end framework that's good at scaling from
    mobile to desktop. I use Bootstrap; I'm sure an actual front-end web
    dev would have other opinions. (I'm more for the server-side of
    things, and muddle around in the browser when I need to.)

    Yep I'm using bootstrap these days, it works pretty well. I'll think
    about your suggestion of removing the ANSI rendering, or at least
    making it optional, and have different defaults on the desktop vs
    mobile.

    I think different results on desktop and mobile are practically mandatory, because they are totally different form factors. Having the traditional 80 column ANSI as an optional toggle would be good, so one can enter that mode when screen layout is critical (likely for some doors).

    I'm definitely not a web designer either so that doesn't help lol

    Nor I. I just lean on my opinionated and probably often wrong
    aesthetic sense.
    Synchronet was in sore need of a new web UI; I'm now on my fourth
    effort toward making something decent. Can't say that I've entirely succeeded, but I'm getting there.

    You've done a pretty good job! I've seen your work on some BBSes I
    visit. For myself I don't mean I'm not able to see what looks good and what doesn't. I just lack the skills to implement my ideas. What I have done involved a lot of googling CSS syntax etc :P

    I second that. I like the look of ecweb, just have to get off my rear end and install it on my system. :D


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    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Wed Oct 17 22:22:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 19:36, Avon wrote to apam <=-

    PS this is not a rant at you etc. I'm really just thinking and typing
    as I go so wanted to make it clear that no annoyance or anything like
    that should be inferred in my tone. And that is one area where written does fall down over voice / video because we can only read something

    But voice/video falls over completely if it's not used! :D (which is usually the case for me ;) ).

    and then infer (some times incorrectly) any emotional overtones etc. in what is typed. :) <-- hence I use a lot of these as you know :)

    As do I ;) :D :P



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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to apam on Wed Oct 17 22:26:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 16:47, apam wrote to Avon <=-

    to change, you may change my mind on matters, I may change yours, it's
    not that important and I value you and your friendship more than such particulars.

    And that's what I like about this net, the friendly atmosphere and mutual respect. :)


    ... You bring this networks ratings down, and we'll do a special on you!
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    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Wed Oct 17 22:50:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 19:53, Avon wrote to apam <=-

    Yeah the crux of the issue being discussed is, is there an issue /
    problem or not? And I think like all curly ones the answer becomes 'it
    all depends' because depending on how someone views all of this stuff
    that we're riffing about.. will in turn guide their view of it being a problem or a non issue.

    I think BBSs tend to be a medium for aggregation of content, so fragmentation is less of an issue here than on other media. Someone starts an important echo on another net? No problem, just join that net and carry the echo! ) And modern BBS software can do all sorts of gating that once required external programs like QWKnet doors or Internet gateways like GIGO. All that's built in now. :)

    This idea has been mooted before perhaps by you?? Not sure. In any
    regard yep I agree it might work well if others opt in. You could say
    it already is in place in that gateways between say Usenet and Fidonet
    or Usenet/fsxNet play a similar role... bridging content between to discrete networks.

    Worth a thought. I'd trial it in a contained echo first, and if it works well, work on a fuller deployment.

    I need a beer to reflect on this, and perhaps some sleep and others to chime in as well :)

    Well, I'm happy to weigh in here. :)

    Just some thoughts. I'm on my second six-pack, so ymmv :P

    I've really enjoyed this chat... and note we didn't discuss clouds and rain once ;-)

    Yeah good chat. :)


    ... I may not be perfect, but parts of me are excellent.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Wed Oct 17 22:54:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 19:17, Avon wrote to apam <=-

    Answer is you don't.. just display ASCII menu options... I use a telnet client on my iPhone daily to check and reply to messages. I only need
    cell data and I can access messages anywhere. :)

    You must have good eyesight! :D


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    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to apam on Wed Oct 17 22:59:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 16:43, apam wrote to Avon <=-

    It would suggest there isn't a single all encompassing method that
    works. So my thinking is perhaps we need to step back and find a way of either carrying these conversations over a variety of methods, or
    finding a new method that works, else put up with the fragmentation.

    Well, echomail areas can be at least carried together on the same BBS.

    For one thing, people are always starting new nets. For whatever
    reason. What if there was a way to carry common echo areas across all nets, then people could experiment and play and still keep the conversations together. What if an IRC bot, telegram bot etc could
    relay messages to said echo areas as well?

    I'm up for that sort of experimentation, happy to conduct such experimentation on VKRadio as well. :) Now as for carrying echos on multiple nets, how best to do that without creating a mess.

    BBSes are fun, we can all agree on that, involving our BBSes in our conversations is fun (else what else would we have them for) but how
    can we carry these conversations those who either cant or don't want to use a bbs at a particular time for whatever reason?

    Agree. I find mobile access to be a pain.


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  • From echicken to apam on Wed Oct 17 12:46:15 2018
    Re: Re: Telegram
    By: apam to echicken on Wed Oct 17 2018 14:27:05

    I totally agree with this. My problem with IRC is only that I can't idle 24/7, and as there is no backlog when I log in I miss peoples questions. Telegram seems to have this.

    Most of the newer IRC-lookalike chat things have this, and it is nice. It's achievable with IRC in a few different ways, but not always straightforward. I just use a console IRC client (weechat) under 'screen' on a linux server, and attach to it from whatever computer I'm using.

    But yeah I agree, it would be nice to have things more centralized, even with message networks. I imagine DM being a little frustrated with people posting Synchronet questions in fsxnet, sure there are people here who
    may be able to answer them, but it means if he wants to know what's going on he has multiple places to keep an eye out.

    Multiple support points have been a minor annoyance with Synchronet for some time. Don't get me started on the Yahoo! group that some people insisted on using for *years* after its founder disappeared and it couldn't be killed. I think (and hope) it's gone now. It's not a big problem, though.

    I like how dovenet exports(?) to fidonet, so even if people are not on dovenet they can participate. I wish that were the case with all the bbs softwares, and possibly connected to all the nets. Sort of like multiple carriers of the same content. Say dovenet had FSX_MYS and fsxnet had the synchronet area. While they can keep their exlusive areas, there is also some overlap.

    I'm sure this is all possible. At the same time, the Synchronet-specific Dove-Net areas are mainly of interest to Synchronet sysops, so maybe they should just connect their boards to that network. Those are really the only areas of Dove-Net that I read and engage in; I'm not interested in discussing politics, religion, firearms, sports, professional audio, etc. (in general, leastwise on a BBS message network) so I just skip them.

    Not that it's necessarily a bad thing to replicate it across networks.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
  • From echicken to Avon on Wed Oct 17 12:54:04 2018
    Re: Re: Telegram
    By: Avon to echicken on Wed Oct 17 2018 19:21:31

    I prefer the latter, one of the main reasons for few echos in fsxNet is exactly that reason..

    I noticed and really appreciated the lack of many narrow-focus echoes on this network. It made sense at one point to set aside special areas for specific discussions, but with the amount of traffic we see today it's better to have broad categories. Fewer "dead" areas, less griping about being off-topic, more wide-ranging threads.

    Me too :) In the end folks opt to go where folks opt to go for their online chatter... but I agree it seems so nutty to create more and more options especially if it's mostly the same users active in all communication channels.

    Fragmentation is a bit of a concern. It may be mostly the same users, but there will be some people here who aren't there and vice versa. Might be better to have a bigger pool of users in one place - but that's unlikely to happen.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Vk3jed on Wed Oct 17 20:19:42 2018

    On Tuesday, October 16th Vk3jed was heard saying...
    Discord, that's voice conferencing, isn't it? Voice is of no use to me, practically inaccessible, because I rarely have a free environment for voice, but text is a lot easier.

    It /has/ voice ability, but it's generally used for text based chat -- more of a modern IRC I suppose.


    --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.9-alpha (linux; x64; 8.9.4)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Thu Oct 18 16:14:58 2018
    On 10/17/18, apam pondered and said...

    I guess for me I'm coming from a place with Magicka at the center. Yeah I've not been as active as I should be and I've talked a whole lot more than I've coded lately, but it seems to be picking up a little bit. Magicka doesn't have a specific home. I tried it with HappyNetX, but perhaps I didn't push it enough but it didn't happen ie it's been a bit
    of a flop. FSX_BBS is the next best thing but it's shared by synchronet and whatever not mystic specific bbs question there is. So Magicka
    doesn't really have a place to call home that people can associate
    Magicka = this place. (Like synchronet = dovenet, mystic = fsx_mys etc)/

    What I'd really like, and am to afraid to ask, is for a seperate channel on fsxnet that I could gate between happynetx, and call it home. It might not get the traffic that is needed for an fsxnet area, but it would mean
    I can say both fsxnet is home and for the tinkerer happynetx is.

    I'm open to this but as echicken pointed out in one of his replies the balancing act is always how many specific echos to carry vs traffic they generate (or not). Certainly Mystic is quieter at the moment hence lower traffic there. It's not dead there either but you know what I'm saying :) Nothing new in my dilemmas about this.

    I guess if we do as you suggest it's fair square to create one for Enigma 1/2 etc etc. if a developer requests it, is prepared to monitor and support it
    etc. And if (I'm just thinking and typing) we went down that path then do we shutter FSX_BBS in favour of specific echos?

    I like the idea of a linked echo between the HappyNetX and fsxNet if that
    helps you and others using Magicka and I guess tests that idea of a shared communal space for support that your seeking.

    Just posting these thoughts as a bit of an idea dump and seeking feedback
    from the others here. :)

    Oh, and please don't be afraid to raise these requests etc. I welcome a
    robust discussion about this stuff and am always open to having them :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to apam on Wed Oct 17 22:25:46 2018
    I put a lot of work into the web interface for magicka, trying to get
    it to work ok on Mobile. I didn't really succeed though - how do you
    fit 80 columns of ansi rendered text without scrolling or making the
    font impossibly small?

    I like it but, to me, everything is small. I really don't like web
    browsing on my phone unless I have to. FB has its own ap... I use FB Lite, actually... so it is a little more tolerable than web browsing.

    I really prefer being at a desktop to do anything important, and Magicka
    works great from there. :)



    ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636 * SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to apam on Wed Oct 17 22:30:57 2018
    For one thing, people are always starting new nets. For whatever
    reason. What if there was a way to carry common echo areas across all nets, then people could experiment and play and still keep the conversations together. What if an IRC bot, telegram bot etc could
    relay messages to said echo areas as well?

    Used to be, you might find the same software support echo across more than
    one network. Even today, the Synchronet support echos that are hosted on DoveNet are also available on FIDO.

    If one could find a way to do it, one could probably get their BBS support
    echo carried on multiple networks. You would need some software that would allow it to be carried over multiple zones/domains, if there were multiple
    FTN networks involved. You would probably need to be a member of those multiple nets as well.



    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636 * SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to NuSkooler on Thu Oct 18 16:04:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 16:19, NuSkooler wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @TZ: 4168

    On Tuesday, October 16th Vk3jed was heard saying...
    Discord, that's voice conferencing, isn't it? Voice is of no use to me, practically inaccessible, because I rarely have a free environment for voice, but text is a lot easier.

    It /has/ voice ability, but it's generally used for text based chat -- more of a modern IRC I suppose.

    Yeah I recall now, I think Telegram would work better for me, otherwise good old IRC. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Blue White on Thu Oct 18 16:47:00 2018
    On 10-17-18 18:30, Blue White wrote to apam <=-

    Used to be, you might find the same software support echo across more
    than one network. Even today, the Synchronet support echos that are hosted on DoveNet are also available on FIDO.

    Yes, that crossover is well known. :)

    If one could find a way to do it, one could probably get their BBS
    support echo carried on multiple networks. You would need some
    software that would allow it to be carried over multiple zones/domains,
    if there were multiple FTN networks involved. You would probably need
    to be a member of those multiple nets as well.

    Yep, one would have to gate the message across FTN zones, so it is correctly addressed. I don't know if there is software that does that? Anyone? Bonus points if the gateway can also gate netmails correctly between networks, including extracting the correct routing information from echomail, if someone chooses to reply via netmail. As I have my own net, I'm up for experimentation. :)


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  • From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Thu Oct 18 16:47:28 2018
    Just posting these thoughts as a bit of an idea dump and seeking
    feedback from the others here. :)

    I don't know. I was pretty drunk yesterday, not really sure about any of
    it. I don't really see why not have an enigma area if nu wanted one. I
    guess I just need to work out how to get the users of magicka together in
    one spot ;)

    Not that it really matters :)

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Thu Oct 18 21:08:27 2018
    On 10/18/18, apam pondered and said...

    Just posting these thoughts as a bit of an idea dump and seeking feedback from the others here. :)

    I don't know. I was pretty drunk yesterday, not really sure about any of

    If it helps I'm drinking some beer right now :)

    it. I don't really see why not have an enigma area if nu wanted one. I guess I just need to work out how to get the users of magicka together in one spot ;)

    Well I'm open to trying and experimenting, after all that's the ethos here
    and worse case we can always shutter echos etc. if things don't work.

    How about I set things up at this end and link with your net etc. and we give it a whirl :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Thu Oct 18 18:30:12 2018
    On 10/18/18, apam pondered and said...

    Just posting these thoughts as a bit of an idea dump and seek feedback from the others here. :)

    I don't know. I was pretty drunk yesterday, not really sure about

    If it helps I'm drinking some beer right now :)

    Hehe

    it. I don't really see why not have an enigma area if nu wanted o guess I just need to work out how to get the users of magicka tog
    one spot ;)

    Well I'm open to trying and experimenting, after all that's the ethos
    here and worse case we can always shutter echos etc. if things don't
    work.

    True

    How about I set things up at this end and link with your net etc. and
    we give it a whirl :)

    I'm trying to remember how I did it last time, I think I used a separate
    node number but I think it should work as a point. My brain is a bit
    foggy today lol.

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Fri Oct 19 01:06:00 2018
    On 10-18-18 17:08, Avon wrote to apam <=-

    Well I'm open to trying and experimenting, after all that's the ethos
    here and worse case we can always shutter echos etc. if things don't
    work.

    How about I set things up at this end and link with your net etc. and
    we give it a whirl :)

    Yeah, I never worked out how to get the addon for Mystic working to connect to HappynetX.


    ... Staring into a dragon's jaws, one quickly learns wisdom.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Deon George@21:2/116.1 to Vk3jed on Thu Oct 18 14:14:16 2018
    On 10/18/18, Vk3jed said the following...
    Yep, one would have to gate the message across FTN zones, so it is correctly addressed. I don't know if there is software that does that? Anyone? Bonus points if the gateway can also gate netmails correctly between networks, including extracting the correct routing information from echomail, if someone chooses to reply via netmail. As I have my
    own net, I'm up for experimentation. :)

    Its funning that this is being discussed. One of the things that I considered building was a "FTN Clearing House" - where I thought about joining FidoNet works together.

    I recently got "back into" BBSing after a hiatus of about 20 years - and I started exploring software and networks (with this idea in the back of my
    mind) - as well as relearning the protocols. I've joined a couple of "nets"
    to get back "in" only to discover that Fidonet seems to be grumpy old men
    (with all due respect - might be because of the Echo's I'm getting) and all
    the "othernets" fairly small (that I've joined so far anyway, with the exception of fsxNet which is by far quite active). I've also found some nets unresponsive to my interest in joining, which I thought was bad for business. :)

    I started thinking, why not have an "FTN Network", not a fsx and a fido and a Dore, and a pi, etc, which lead me to the "clearing house" idea. IE: It didnt matter what your FTN node address was 3:*, 21:*, etc you could get any echo area from "your hub", with the hubs at the top of the tree transferring
    across zones.

    Also it seems some level of duplication which could be cleaned up as a result
    - which I think was the basis of this thread starting... (Why have so many places to talk about <insert BBS software> if there was 1 echo in the "FTN network" that discussions could be had.

    I wanted to preserve as much as possible the retro architecture of Fidonet (Zones, Regions, Hubs, Hosts, etc) as well as the flow of traffic (although technically that flow doesnt need to exist) and the automation (nodelist updates, file flows, etc). I got disillusioned after getting back into Fidonet with the (grumpy old) chatter complaining about the "NAB", FidoWeb and "controlling sysops" - I came to a conclusion that my clearing house idea wouldnt get off the ground.

    I also then thought, this may make the network more "appealing" to curious onlookers, who might join if getting into the network was simple (and automated) - and their was a broad spectrum of content (ie: echos and files).

    Being a background coder, I'm keen to be involved - this was going to be my "give back" for the community that has built the software on this
    architecture - and the free software that enables us to enjoy it.

    So, If I can help out in any way, love to.

    ...deon

    _--_|\ | Deon George
    / \ | Chinwag BBS - A BBS on a PI in Docker!
    \_.__.*/ |
    V | Coming from the 'burbs of Melbourne, Australia

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Chinwag | MysticBBS in Docker on a Pi! (21:2/116.1)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Deon George on Fri Oct 19 01:54:00 2018
    On 10-18-18 10:14, Deon George wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Its funning that this is being discussed. One of the things that I considered building was a "FTN Clearing House" - where I thought about joining FidoNet works together.

    I recently got "back into" BBSing after a hiatus of about 20 years -
    and I started exploring software and networks (with this idea in the
    back of my mind) - as well as relearning the protocols. I've joined a couple of "nets" to get back "in" only to discover that Fidonet seems
    to be grumpy old men (with all due respect - might be because of the Echo's I'm getting) and all the "othernets" fairly small (that I've
    joined so far anyway, with the exception of fsxNet which is by far
    quite active). I've also found some nets unresponsive to my interest in joining, which I thought was bad for business. :)

    Yeah I was off for around 15-20 years. Yep, found the grumpy old men in Fidonet. Have to be careful about bagging out the old men these days, I'm becoming one, though not grumpy in my case. :)

    I started thinking, why not have an "FTN Network", not a fsx and a fido and a Dore, and a pi, etc, which lead me to the "clearing house" idea.
    IE: It didnt matter what your FTN node address was 3:*, 21:*, etc you could get any echo area from "your hub", with the hubs at the top of
    the tree transferring across zones.

    Almost like a network of networks. :)

    Also it seems some level of duplication which could be cleaned up as a result - which I think was the basis of this thread starting... (Why
    have so many places to talk about <insert BBS software> if there was 1 echo in the "FTN network" that discussions could be had.

    I wanted to preserve as much as possible the retro architecture of
    Fidonet (Zones, Regions, Hubs, Hosts, etc) as well as the flow of
    traffic (although technically that flow doesnt need to exist) and the automation (nodelist updates, file flows, etc). I got disillusioned
    after getting back into Fidonet with the (grumpy old) chatter
    complaining about the "NAB", FidoWeb and "controlling sysops" - I came
    to a conclusion that my clearing house idea wouldnt get off the ground.

    We just leave Fidonet out of it (for now). :)

    I also then thought, this may make the network more "appealing" to
    curious onlookers, who might join if getting into the network was
    simple (and automated) - and their was a broad spectrum of content (ie: echos and files).

    Being a background coder, I'm keen to be involved - this was going to
    be my "give back" for the community that has built the software on this architecture - and the free software that enables us to enjoy it.

    I'm more a tinkerer and integrator. I haven't done much in the way of coding (beyond scripting) for at least 25 years. That's because I learned early on that coding isn't good for my mental health. I'm too much of an active outdoor person and communicator. :)

    So, If I can help out in any way, love to.

    Same here. :)



    ... Profanity - The Language of Computer Professionals!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Avon on Thu Oct 18 09:18:00 2018
    Re: Re: FSX_MAG
    By: Avon to apam on Thu Oct 18 2018 12:14 pm

    I guess if we do as you suggest it's fair square to create one for Enigma 1/2 etc etc. if a developer requests it, is prepared to monitor and support it etc. And if (I'm just thinking and typing) we went down that path then do we shutter FSX_BBS in favour of specific echos?

    I support the idea, even if traffic is not high. It's not really a numbers
    game after all. If folks have a use for it and are connected.. let it be. :)

    I wouldn't want to see FSX_BBS shuttered.. it's a good place for all things
    BBS regardless of software.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... *** ERROR *** Unable to insert witty tagline.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to Vk3jed on Thu Oct 18 17:58:29 2018
    Re: Re: Telegram
    By: Vk3jed to Avon on Wed Oct 17 2018 06:54 pm

    On 10-17-18 19:17, Avon wrote to apam <=-

    Answer is you don't.. just display ASCII menu options... I use a telnet client on my iPhone daily to check and reply to messages. I only need cell data and I can access messages anywhere. :)

    You must have good eyesight! :D

    Or a really big phone. :-)

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #29:
    I find lost luggage. I locate mandolin strings in the middle of Austin!
    Norco, CA WX: 84.8°F, 17.0% humidity, 6 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From Tiny@21:1/130.4 to apam on Fri Oct 19 00:59:48 2018
    Quoting apam to Avon <=-

    channel on fsxnet that I could gate between happynetx, and call it
    home. It might not get the traffic that is needed for an fsxnet area,

    I will get off my rear end and figure out the happynetx stuff if you want
    me too. I just didn't because I was hoping you'd just hook it up to the
    FTN stuff again. <G>

    Other then that I totally support either a seperate area in FSX.

    Shawn

    ... Great! Now if we can just keep it from exploding!
    --- Blue Wave/386
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (21:1/130.4)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Digital Man on Fri Oct 19 12:13:00 2018
    On 10-18-18 13:58, Digital Man wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @TZ: 41a4
    Re: Re: Telegram
    By: Vk3jed to Avon on Wed Oct 17 2018 06:54 pm

    On 10-17-18 19:17, Avon wrote to apam <=-

    Answer is you don't.. just display ASCII menu options... I use a telnet client on my iPhone daily to check and reply to messages. I only need cell data and I can access messages anywhere. :)

    You must have good eyesight! :D

    Or a really big phone. :-)

    Hahaha that would do it too, but putting it in your pocket might be a bit tricky. :D


    ... Don't itch for what you don't intend to scratch.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to apam on Thu Oct 18 22:54:58 2018
    What I'd really like, and am to afraid to ask, is for a seperate channel
    on fsxnet that I could gate between happynetx, and call it home. It might
    not get the traffic that is needed for an fsxnet area, but it would mean
    I can say both fsxnet is home and for the tinkerer happynetx is.

    I like that idea. I have tested gatting happynetx (on my magicka system)
    to "old" happynet (on my sbbs system) and have had mixed results. It would appear that maybe the mnet software (or magicka itself) knows that a
    message has already been exported. So, if I post it in the happyxnet area,
    it apparently gets exported to your board (both using mnet) but does not
    get exported via magimail to my sbbs board.

    BTW, I changed the site name in the mnet config but I am still having
    issues connecting. I hope to get that sorted later this weekend.

    Thanks!


    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636 * SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Blue White on Fri Oct 19 14:02:25 2018
    What I'd really like, and am to afraid to ask, is for a seperate cha
    on fsxnet that I could gate between happynetx, and call it home. It
    not get the traffic that is needed for an fsxnet area, but it would
    I can say both fsxnet is home and for the tinkerer happynetx is.

    I like that idea. I have tested gatting happynetx (on my magicka
    system) to "old" happynet (on my sbbs system) and have had mixed
    results. It would appear that maybe the mnet software (or magicka
    itself) knows that a message has already been exported. So, if I
    post it in the happyxnet area, it apparently gets exported to your
    board (both using mnet) but does not get exported via magimail to my
    sbbs board.

    Yeah, I did some strange hacks to get mnet2ftn and ftn2mnet to work, and
    it really needed it's own jam bases to work with, which is why I had it
    setup with it's own node number. I don't really remember what I did
    though - I think I inverted the "LOCAL" and "SENT" flags for some reason.
    (In the JAM base, the ftn messages come out normally).

    BTW, I changed the site name in the mnet config but I am still having issues connecting. I hope to get that sorted later this weekend.

    I had some errors on the server, I'd not recompiled the mnet tools from freebsd->linux so they weren't running. That shouldn't have stopped you connecting though, if you try with filezilla or something like that does
    it work?

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Al on Fri Oct 19 17:09:59 2018
    On 10/18/18, Al pondered and said...

    I support the idea, even if traffic is not high. It's not really a
    numbers game after all. If folks have a use for it and are connected..
    let it be. :)

    Hi Al

    It's certainly fair to say so far there's support being posted for the idea of the new echo area. Not sure what you mean by numbers game? If you mean numbers of messages passing through the echo then I agree so long as it's not dead. If you mean 10 echos vs 5 echos etc. then I am more cautious (as you know ;-) as I do worry about creating more spaces when less may well do just as well.

    Your point about folks having a use for it is also important. I think if a software author is asking for a dedicated space and is happy to support the echo and others are posting about the topic in others echos then I think it's
    a good idea.

    I also think it's important reviews take place periodically of echos to
    confirm if they should be retained else risk an ever growing bunch of them
    that in some cases may have fallen into disuse.

    It's all an experiment :) And I'm feeling experimental right now. Just need some time this weekend to work on the BBS stuff :)

    Tomorrow morning (my Sat) I'm going to be tied up with servicing my LPFM transmitter and changing out a cooling fan that's not working at 100%.
    Luckily it's a 3 day weekend coming up with a public holiday on Monday so I expect to find some time to play with the BBS, do some admin for fsxNet and hopefully get another video done.

    Best, Paul

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Avon on Fri Oct 19 04:27:40 2018
    Re: Re: FSX_MAG
    By: Avon to Al on Fri Oct 19 2018 01:09 pm

    Not sure what you mean by numbers game?

    I mean that not all areas should or need to be heavy traffic. If the area is for something specific rather than a general chat area I would not expect a high level of traffic.

    On the other hand I don't think we need a large list of areas either. I try not to connect to areas that don't have traffic just because it makes it hard for folks looking for a place to discuss whatever their intersts are if they have to sort through a lot of areas where they will find nothing.

    Not an easy balancing act.. :)

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... It's not the money I want, it's the stuff.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Al on Sat Oct 20 19:13:06 2018
    On 10/19/18, Al pondered and said...

    Not an easy balancing act.. :)

    Yep! :) Thanks for the helpful feedback too Al, as always really appreciated
    :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to Vk3jed on Sat Oct 20 00:55:37 2018
    On 10/18/18, Vk3jed said the following...

    How about I set things up at this end and link with your net etc. and we give it a whirl :)

    Yeah, I never worked out how to get the addon for Mystic working to connect to HappynetX.

    I had it working here... I just don't remember how I did it...

    I'll have to take a look and see if I can get connected again.


    ---

    Black Panther
    a.k.a. Dan Richter
    Sysop - Castle Rock BBS (RCS)
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    The sparrows are flying again....

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)
  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to Digital Man on Sat Oct 20 00:57:36 2018
    On 10/18/18, Digital Man said the following...

    Answer is you don't.. just display ASCII menu options... I use a t client on my iPhone daily to check and reply to messages. I only n cell data and I can access messages anywhere. :)

    You must have good eyesight! :D

    Or a really big phone. :-)

    Some of those new phones are almost the size of tablets... :)


    ---

    Black Panther
    a.k.a. Dan Richter
    Sysop - Castle Rock BBS (RCS)
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    The sparrows are flying again....

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Black Panther on Sat Oct 20 21:58:00 2018
    On 10-19-18 20:55, Black Panther wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I had it working here... I just don't remember how I did it...

    I'll have to take a look and see if I can get connected again.

    I couldn't work with the available information. :(


    ... Have you ever seen anything like this place?
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to All on Fri Nov 13 21:58:47 2020
    Hi guys

    Made a wee change to the descriptor of this echo to reflect the fact that Andrew is now developing a new BBS package called Talisman.

    So while the echo remains a space for getting support/chatting about Magicka we've added Talisman into the mix as well and made the focus of the echomail area descriptor now on Talisman. You probably want to update your BBS
    echomail area description for this echo.

    From HISTORY.TXT

    [snip]

    2020-11-13
    Changed description for FSX_MAG echomail area to:

    FSX_MAG - Talisman BBS + Magicka BBS discussions, support and development.

    The echoarea now also covers support for Talisman BBS (a new BBS also being developed by Apam).

    The FSXNET.NA file has been updated to:

    FSX_MAG Talisman BBS Support/Dev

    [snip]

    Best, Paul

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Avon on Fri Nov 13 03:04:35 2020
    BY: Avon(21:1/101)


    The echoarea now also covers support for Talisman BBS (a new BBS also
    being
    developed by Apam).
    Yea, I might call it Apam's BBS Software Creations


    --- WWIV 5.6.0.3311
    * Origin: inland utopia * socal usa * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Utopian Galt on Sat Nov 14 14:37:16 2020
    On 12 Nov 2020 at 10:04p, Utopian Galt pondered and said...

    Yea, I might call it Apam's BBS Software Creations

    I can well understand why :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)