• Zmodem

    From apam@21:1/101 to All on Sat Oct 17 06:21:40 2020
    Hi

    Spent the last several hours going in circles trying to get Zmodem working properly in MagiTerm.

    I seem to have it uploading / downloading with mystic and sexyz.

    But not WWIV. I can't for the life of me figure out why because WWIV uses the same Zmodem library as magiterm.

    I have a feeling it may be an issue with the way wwiv uses the library, and
    the library not being spectacular, but I'm not sure yet.

    Oh well. More testing tomorrow. very frustrated.

    Andrew

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  • From Rushfan@21:2/115 to Apam on Fri Oct 16 18:41:09 2020
    RE: Re: Zmodem
    BY: apam(21:1/101)


    I have a feeling it may be an issue with the way wwiv uses the library,
    and
    the library not being spectacular, but I'm not sure yet.

    That'd be my bet. If you have ideas, would love to know. It works with syncterm but IIRC not with NetRunner for me. Some of that is possibly I didn't implement something in there right 20ish years ago when I added it.



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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to apam on Fri Oct 16 16:53:47 2020
    apam wrote to All <=-

    I seem to have it uploading / downloading with mystic and sexyz.

    FWIW, it still works with magicka, too. I used zmodem in magiterm to
    download this packet from my magicka bbs.



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  • From alterego@21:2/116 to apam on Sat Oct 17 14:14:11 2020
    Re: Zmodem
    By: apam to All on Sat Oct 17 2020 02:21 am

    Howdy,

    Spent the last several hours going in circles trying to get Zmodem working properly in MagiTerm.
    I have a feeling it may be an issue with the way wwiv uses the library, and
    the library not being spectacular, but I'm not sure yet.

    I've noticed that there are many iterpretations on the usage of zmodem, and the common one I came across (that I fixed for QICO), was the response to XON.

    IIRC, the spec says after XON, you should get a CR & LF - but some implementations dont send the CR/LF while other implementations wait patently for it.

    I had to relax QICO because it was waiting for CR/LF, but the frontend I was using (POP), wasnt sending it. Looking at SBBS, it too doesnt specifically look for it, if the sender doesnt send it (but happily throws it away if it comes).

    ...δεσ∩

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  • From Apam@21:1/182 to Rushfan on Sat Oct 17 14:56:52 2020
    RE: Re: Zmodem
    BY: Rushfan(21:2/115)


    That'd be my bet. If you have ideas, would love to know. It works with syncterm but IIRC not with NetRunner for me. Some of that is possibly I didn't implement something in there right 20ish years ago when I added
    it.

    I'll have a play, i don't have any ideas, just a couple of things to try. It's been more like tweak this setting see what happens lol.

    Andrew

    --- WWIV 5.5.0.development
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  • From Apam@21:1/182 to Rushfan on Sat Oct 17 17:31:58 2020
    RE: Re: Zmodem
    BY: Rushfan(21:2/115)


    That'd be my bet. If you have ideas, would love to know. It works with syncterm but IIRC not with NetRunner for me. Some of that is possibly I didn't implement something in there right 20ish years ago when I added
    it.

    I'm not sure, I've got the latest syncterm from a few days ago, that doesn't even seem to send any bytes at all, then quits the upload.

    Magiterm (with my tinkering) gets partway through then it just keeps sendinging the same area over and over (I think it's getting a bad CRC for some reason).


    To be honest, I think the library we are using is to blame. Unfortunatly ZModem libraries are slim pickings, and I'm not in the headspace to write one. I think with magiterm being GPL, I could attempt to use the sexyz code (which
    is also GPL) but I don't think that's compatible with Apache what WWIV is under?

    This current library, doesn't seem to work at all with crc32 mode, in magiterm i'm currently enabling full duplex and overlapping io and setting the window size to 0 to get it into streaming mode seems to work best for me.

    I've tried everything I can think of, if you happen to solve it in WWIV, I'd love to know how :)

    Andrew

    --- WWIV 5.5.0.development
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  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to alterego on Sat Oct 17 20:57:31 2020
    Re: Zmodem
    By: alterego to apam on Sat Oct 17 2020 10:14 am

    Re: Zmodem
    By: apam to All on Sat Oct 17 2020 02:21 am

    Howdy,

    Spent the last several hours going in circles trying to get Zmodem working properly in MagiTerm.
    I have a feeling it may be an issue with the way wwiv uses the library, and
    the library not being spectacular, but I'm not sure yet.

    I've noticed that there are many iterpretations on the usage of zmodem, and the common one I came across (that I fixed for QICO), was the response to XON.

    IIRC, the spec says after XON, you should get a CR & LF - but some implementations dont send the CR/LF while other implementations wait patently for it.

    I had to relax QICO because it was waiting for CR/LF, but the frontend I was using (POP), wasnt sending it. Looking at SBBS, it too doesnt specifically look for it, if the sender doesnt send it (but happily throws it away if it comes).

    Here's the ZMODEM spec that SEXYZ is based on: http://wiki.synchro.net/ref:zmodem

    I don't see anything in there about expecting a CRLF after an XON. There is a CRLF *before* the trailing XON of specific HEX packets. Is that what you're referring to?

    digital man

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  • From alterego@21:2/116 to Digital Man on Sun Oct 18 20:13:02 2020
    Re: Zmodem
    By: Digital Man to alterego on Sat Oct 17 2020 04:57 pm

    IIRC, the spec says after XON, you should get a CR & LF - but some implementations dont send the CR/LF while other
    implementations wait patently for it.
    I don't see anything in there about expecting a CRLF after an XON. There is a CRLF *before* the trailing XON of specific HEX packets.
    Is that what you're referring to?

    Yeah, you might be right. I cant remember the specifics - I remember it was to do with HEX packets and involving CRLF and XON, or the lack thereoff.

    IIRC, qico would wait, while the other side would time out because it was waiting for the next thing.

    https://github.com/leenooks/qico/commit/b86f709e

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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to alterego on Sun Oct 18 17:11:00 2020
    I've noticed that there are many iterpretations on the usage of zmodem,

    The go to software in the A2 world ProTerm always had a lot of trouble with ìprotocol engines driving BBS software. It'd hit 32k and stall out. But if ìyou switched to something like DSZ you never had a problem. It used to be ìput down to the implementation and how faithfully it followed the protocol, ìnever really found an answer to just what it was that set it off though.

    Spec


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  • From Oli@21:3/102 to alterego on Mon Oct 19 22:08:21 2020
    alterego wrote (2020-10-17):

    Spent the last several hours going in circles trying to get Zmodem
    working properly in MagiTerm. I have a feeling it may be an issue
    with the way wwiv uses the library, and the library not being
    spectacular, but I'm not sure yet.

    I've noticed that there are many iterpretations on the usage of zmodem,
    and the common one I came across (that I fixed for QICO), was the
    response to XON.

    Maybe that was the reason people already used better protocols in the 90s, like Hydra. I don't remember having any protocol compatibility problems with file transfers. But it's a long time ago.

    ---
    * Origin: (21:3/102)