• Withdrawl....

    From Spectre@21:3/101 to Anybody on Sat Nov 28 17:28:00 2020
    The time has come said the Walrus to something... No I'm not on enough drugs ìto be seeing talking walrus'. On the other hand, the government in their ìinfinite wisdom have decided to make my current medications hard to get.

    In essence they are trying to clamp down on all long term use of opiod pain ìrelievers. So the avenues I have in front of me are declining and only going ìto get harder to get. <sigh> I've been riding a plateau in this department ìfor some time, which includes some 450mg of Tramadol a day, which is enough ìto horrify some people. Having tried to go without I know this is going to ìbe.... difficult... and I probably have a better understanding of addicts on ìfar worse substances.

    So having had an attempted start already, and now postponing till after this ìcoming Sunday (tomorrow) I'll be trying to give it away. No idea where I'm ìgoing to end up, brain is going to need to serious retraining.

    Anyhoo, if I ended up disappearing for days at a time, and pop out some ìcomplete garbage, here's a headsup to whats happening. See you on the other ìside.

    Spec


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  • From Tiny@21:1/130 to Spectre on Sun Nov 29 17:45:56 2020
    Spectre wrote to Anybody <=-

    Anyhoo, if I ended up disappearing for days at a time, and pop out some complete garbage, here's a headsup to whats happening. See you on the other side.

    Good luck! Withdrawl is a bitch for sure!

    Shawn

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Spectre on Sun Nov 29 19:33:32 2020
    Anyhoo, if I ended up disappearing for days at a time, and pop out some ìcomplete garbage, here's a headsup to whats happening. See you on the other ìside.

    Good luck.

    I hope you wind up with a good plan and an effective way of sticking to the plan (and good resiliency when you run into issues or setbacks).

    Probably the same with anyone quitting smoking, or even just trying to not
    eat so much candy.

    But I know it can be rough, so... good luck. We'll root for you.

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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Spectre on Sun Nov 29 15:46:46 2020
    Spectre wrote to Anybody <=-

    In essence they are trying to clamp down on all long term use of opiod pain ìrelievers. So the avenues I have in front of me are declining
    and only going ìto get harder to get. <sigh> I've been riding a
    plateau in this department ìfor some time, which includes some 450mg of Tramadol a day, which is enough ìto horrify some people. Having tried
    to go without I know this is going to ìbe.... difficult... and I
    probably have a better understanding of addicts on ìfar worse
    substances.

    I am sorry to hear that. Our government (not sure if it is federal or
    state), decided that opiod abuse meant they needed to crack down on opiods
    and other random drugs that people might use to get high. My (limited) impression, being prescribed one of the non-opiod substances, is that they basically harass the folks who are taking the substances legally through a legit doctor while those who are abusing the drugs are still quite
    apparently getting them. So then they can say they clamped-down but don't
    know how people who shouldn't have them are still getting them.



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  • From The Godfather@21:1/165 to Spectre on Sun Nov 29 18:16:14 2020
    The time has come said the Walrus to something... No I'm not on enough drugs to
    be seeing talking walrus'. On the other hand, the government in their infinite
    wisdom have decided to make my current medications hard to get.
    In essence they are trying to clamp down on all long term use of opiod pain relievers. So the avenues I have in front of me are declining and only going to get harder to get. <sigh> I've been riding a plateau in this department for
    to horrify some people. Having tried to go without I know this is going to be....
    difficult... and I probably have a better understanding of addicts on
    far worse
    substances.
    So having had an attempted start already, and now postponing till after this coming Sunday (tomorrow) I'll be trying to give it away. No idea where I'm going to end up, brain is going to need to serious retraining. Anyhoo, if I ended up disappearing for days at a time, and pop out some complete garbage, here's a headsup to whats happening. See you on the other side.

    Spec,

    First, I wish you the best of luck in your recovery and hope your healthy does not suffer as a result.

    Second, I hope you're seeking help as the cold turkey attempts at stopping any addictive substance can be life threatening.

    You'll be in my thoughts.

    -tG

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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to Spectre on Sun Nov 29 05:02:23 2020
    The time has come said the Walrus to something... No I'm not on enough drugsìto be seeing talking walrus'. On the other hand, the government
    in theirìinfinite wisdom have decided to make my current medications
    hard to get.

    So having had an attempted start already, and now postponing till after thisìcoming Sunday (tomorrow) I'll be trying to give it away. No idea where I'mìgoing to end up, brain is going to need to serious retraining.

    Anyhoo, if I ended up disappearing for days at a time, and pop out some ìcomplete garbage, here's a headsup to whats happening. See you on the otherìside.

    Spec

    I've been down a similar road, and not comparing to you at all, but I was on heavier drugs at much higher levels.

    10 years...

    I ended up quitting and going back once or twice, and had to use Suboxone as a method to quitting later... it worked well; like a miracle drug, really, however even IT had a negative connotation when I was using it. It has now, in the United States anyway, became the gold standard treatment method and is much easier to get a hold of and SOME of the negative connotation has went away... a bit.

    At any rate, I [think I] know what you're about to have in front of you, and the immense challenge that it is. Know that you have a friend out here if needed, you could reach out at any time if you just want to talk thru any issues that you experience during your step down path....

    Its a bitch; but is doable and you basically just gotta get to the other side, at which point as long as you have some support and a plan is completely workable and after a few months becomes routine and the new norm.

    I can tell you that once you go thru all the hard bits, its really nice not to be on any opiates! You can completely have no crutches and feel free in ways that I hadn't for years.

    You have support out here; try to use it... its a hard path, but you can totally conquer it. If you want to, its just putting in the work... you got this, daddio!



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    |08.........

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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to Tiny on Sun Nov 29 14:27:38 2020
    Anyhoo, if I ended up disappearing for days at a time, and pop out so complete garbage, here's a headsup to whats happening. See you on th other side.

    Good luck! Withdrawl is a bitch for sure!

    And completely worth it when you get thru the other end...
    Is needed for more reasons that just abusing drugs - you'd mentioned this was from a medication prescription.
    Isn't as TERRIBLE as some folks make it out to be - Traz is NOT as rough as heavier opiates.

    You're awesome, strong and ready... you got this and have support if needed.



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    |08.........

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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to Blue White on Sun Nov 29 14:36:49 2020
    I am sorry to hear that. Our government (not sure if it is federal or state), decided that opiod abuse meant they needed to crack down on opiodsand other random drugs that people might use to get high. My (limited)impression, being prescribed one of the non-opiod substances,
    is that theybasically harass the folks who are taking the substances legally through alegit doctor while those who are abusing the drugs are still quiteapparently getting them. So then they can say they clamped-down but don'tknow how people who shouldn't have them are still getting them.

    Don't get me started - the government, big pharma and ever doctors were completely negligent in what is an actual opioid crisis in America. It was and is disgusting.

    I went through 10 years of use/abuse that all started with very valid and legal opiate prescriptions - it turned abusive and illegal as the years went by and was very hard to fix. I was so far down the river that I had to use medical intervention for 2 years after and have been 100% free for a couple years. I am proof or an example of how bad things can go when you're NOT a junkie - when you are a successful business man and... that's the ONLY reason I didn't graduate to heroin. (Or even oxycontin, thank gosh.) But... its so disgusting how NO ONE thru today shows an addicted patient/user the green door to recovery.

    It's hard... but really, ITS SO EASY. Get drugs out of system, handle the withdrawl symptoms and/or use medicine if needed. (Suboxone is the gold standard) And do the mental health work needed to sustain sobriety. All that was HARD, but also... so damn easy. Why a doctor, earlier on in my path, or ANYONE didn't show me that green door is beyond me; it wasn't because I wasn't ready.

    If we would put 50% of the effort that we do towards profits, into helping the citizens that, lol, 'took the red pill' those who are still being affected could and would ---> get better.

    Its really a horrible thing, profit over everything. Its like its the ONLY thing that 'they' cared about.



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    |08.........

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  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Paulie420 on Mon Nov 30 00:23:20 2020

    Don't get me started - the government, big pharma and ever doctors were completely negligent in what is an actual opioid crisis in America. It was and is disgusting.

    100% agree. It was (and probably still is happening in some cases) the norm for doctors to over-prescribe pain medicines. Not to mention they can provide teen these items (that can't even legally drink a beer) and due to patient confidentiality, don't notify the parents.

    There needs to be another pain medicine that doesn't come with high level of addiction like opioids. The solution can't end up being worse than the original problem.

    - Mark
       
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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Weatherman on Mon Nov 30 15:16:41 2020
    Re: Re: Withdrawl....
    By: Weatherman to Paulie420 on Sun Nov 29 2020 07:23 pm

    There needs to be another pain medicine that doesn't come with high level of addiction like opioids. The solution can't end up being worse than the original problem.


    Well, 85% of what we do here is pain management and as far as I know we don't give many opioids away.

    Most people we see have joint or back problems and usually get treated with hialuronic, ozonetherapy and collagen therapy. We also prescribe harder drugs from time to time but afaik the manager here does not like it much.

    Lots of patients come here who are already taking a dozen meds so adding more meds to the mix is not great in his opinion.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Spectre on Tue Dec 1 00:48:00 2020
    On 11-28-20 12:28, Spectre wrote to Anybody <=-

    So having had an attempted start already, and now postponing till after this coming Sunday (tomorrow) I'll be trying to give it away. No idea where I'm going to end up, brain is going to need to serious
    retraining.

    Good luck with the quitting, and hope you're doing it with some professional assistance, so you're being monitored for any withdrawl issues. And also hope you have alternative pain relief lined up as well to replace what you're quitting.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Spectre on Mon Nov 30 13:01:00 2020
    Spectre wrote to Anybody <=-

    Anyhoo, if I ended up disappearing for days at a time, and pop out some ìcomplete garbage, here's a headsup to whats happening. See you on the other ìside.

    Good luck, we're rooting for you! and we'll be here when you're ready.



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Weatherman on Mon Nov 30 13:03:00 2020
    Weatherman wrote to Paulie420 <=-

    There needs to be another pain medicine that doesn't come with high
    level of addiction like opioids. The solution can't end up being worse than the original problem.

    I'm sure someone in a big Pharma marketing department looked at
    opioids and saw a recurring business opportunity.



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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Vk3jed on Tue Dec 1 14:37:00 2020
    Good luck with the quitting, and hope you're doing it with some professional assistance, so you're being monitored for any withdrawl issues. And also hope you have alternative pain relief lined up as
    well to replace what you're quitting.

    Thats half the problem, there aren't any real alternatives. In the short term ìit'll paracetamol and anti-defamatories, that was insufficient 10 years ago, ìcue the slope to where I am now. I don't see anything much new in the pain ìrelief dept, most of the stuff we have hails from WWII with bugger all work ìon anything newer.

    Up until recently the only other things have been off label uses of things ìlike gabanpetins, or tricyclic anti depressents.... Neither of which is ìparticularly good at anything. Lyrica (Gabapentin) not so bad in the mental ìdept, but entirely useless for pain in my case, and amitrypinline seems to be ìthe anti depressent of choice for prescription but it leaves me entirely ìdisconnected from the real world. Best description I have is like being in a ìmovie of your own life.. Things happen, but you can't directly affect things ìand reactions are all screwed... tended to leaving me feeling depressed ìdespite the name and class of drug.

    Spec, starting to feel like a freeze dried hippy.


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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Nov 30 22:00:53 2020
    Re: Re: Withdrawl....
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Weatherman on Mon Nov 30 2020 08:03 am

    Weatherman wrote to Paulie420 <=-

    There needs to be another pain medicine that doesn't come with high level of addiction like opioids. The solution can't end up being worse than the original problem.

    I'm sure someone in a big Pharma marketing department looked at
    opioids and saw a recurring business opportunity.



    ... Move towards the unimportant

    Maybe.

    But in the place I hail from, the real power is in the hands of insurance companies, and they don't like when somebody messes with their
    customers.

    I have seen insurance companies obliterate clinics into bankrupcy. I have seen them crucify doctors because they had a lower success rate than average.

    Everybody is so obsessed with Big Pharma but my experience with pharma is that they creep to your door, begging you to buy their products, while insurance companies stomp your door down yelling "YOU ARE GONNA DO THIS FOR THIS CUSTOMER OF OURS OR WE WILL DESTROY YOU!"
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Arelor on Tue Dec 1 12:47:00 2020
    Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I have seen insurance companies obliterate clinics into bankrupcy. I
    have seen them crucify doctors because they had a lower success rate
    than average.

    So the clinics are the street hustlers and the insurance company is
    the dealer. Makes sense. :|

    Everybody is so obsessed with Big Pharma but my experience with pharma
    is that they creep to your door, begging you to buy their products,
    while insurance companies stomp your door down yelling "YOU ARE GONNA
    DO THIS FOR THIS CUSTOMER OF OURS OR WE WILL DESTROY YOU!"

    Yeah, and health care is how much a percentage of GDP? Imagine if we
    put all of that money into other parts of the economy...




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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 1 23:13:18 2020
    Re: Re: Withdrawl....
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Tue Dec 01 2020 07:47 am

    Everybody is so obsessed with Big Pharma but my experience with pharma is that they creep to your door, begging you to buy their products, while insurance companies stomp your door down yelling "YOU ARE GONNA DO THIS FOR THIS CUSTOMER OF OURS OR WE WILL DESTROY YOU!"

    Yeah, and health care is how much a percentage of GDP? Imagine if we
    put all of that money into other parts of the economy...

    If we took that money and placed it in other parts of the economy then people would
    die of tretable medical conditions.

    I don't know how you think the medical industry is going, but most hospitals aren't
    exactly filthy rich orgs. A lot of big hospitals are actually deficitary and only
    survive because they are part of a big conglomerate, or are greatly in debt. Lots
    of small facilities are run by family businesses.

    I mean, the industry is profiteable, but not for everybody running it, and definetively not to a great degree for a lot of people.

    Sorry if I seem harsh but I get a lot of crap for certain groups that would rather
    ensure nobody makes a living in healthcare rather than have healthcare services that
    work so I get a bit grumpy very fast.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Spectre on Thu Dec 3 01:39:00 2020
    On 12-01-20 09:37, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Thats half the problem, there aren't any real alternatives. In the
    short term it'll paracetamol and anti-defamatories, that was
    insufficient 10 years ago, cue the slope to where I am now. I don't
    see anything much new in the pain relief dept, most of the stuff we
    have hails from WWII with bugger all work on anything newer.

    That's a pain (pardon the pun). Wonder if medical cannabis would help, though given your condition isn't life threatening, might be difficult to access. :/

    Spec, starting to feel like a freeze dried hippy.

    Annoying when there's nothing available and acceptable (regulatory wise) that will actually work for you. :(


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Arelor on Wed Dec 2 12:39:00 2020
    Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-


    Yeah, and health care is how much a percentage of GDP? Imagine if we
    put all of that money into other parts of the economy...

    If we took that money and placed it in other parts of the economy then people would die of tretable medical conditions.

    I think we're speaking across purposes, and this isn't the venue for
    a political discussion. I have no issue with the medical care
    providers, it's the insurance and pharma that's making the money
    while care providers get the short end of the stick.




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