• SSH session using telgate

    From Alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to All on Mon Dec 23 22:19:54 2019
    Howdy,

    I setup SSH into my BBS, which works well. However, I have a menu item where I telgate out to another SBBS environment - and I noticed some strange chars on connection (which I'm guessing you are probing for a terminal type).

    Anyway, it guessed the wrong terminal and after logging on, screen rendering was screwed up. IE:

    * I'm on a MAC with Syncterm (1.0)
    * I SSH into SBBS (terminal is fine).
    * I choose a menu option to telgate to another SBBS - on connect some strange chars are shown. After logging in it has obviously guessed that I'm a different terminal and everything is messed up. (EG: "D" for default is rendered as a "B".)

    I also telgated into another BBS (Ezycom) - and on connection it did not detect ANSI.

    If I initially use telnet (instead of SSH) - I can hop to other BBSes with telgate just fine.

    (My menu option is just "?telgate <host>" if that helps)
    ...deon


    ... I gave my wife a hint: I bought a love seat.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Grease@VERT/DARKMATT to Alterego on Mon Dec 23 16:13:33 2019
    Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Alterego to All on Mon Dec 23 2019 05:19 pm

    * I'm on a MAC with Syncterm (1.0)

    Did you go into your dialing directory and press "F2" and edit your terminal to the place you want to connect?

    Grease
    darkmatt.synchro.net


    ... It's always the OVERtakers who keep the UNDERtakers busy.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Dark Matter BBS <<>> darkmatt.synchro.net <<>> Howdy from Texas!
  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to Alterego on Mon Dec 23 18:42:51 2019
    Howdy,

    I setup SSH into my BBS, which works well. However, I have a menu item
    where
    I telgate out to another SBBS environment - and I noticed some strange
    chars
    on connection (which I'm guessing you are probing for a terminal
    type).

    Anyway, it guessed the wrong terminal and after logging on, screen
    rendering
    was screwed up. IE:

    * I'm on a MAC with Syncterm (1.0)
    * I SSH into SBBS (terminal is fine).
    * I choose a menu option to telgate to another SBBS - on connect some strange chars are shown. After logging in it has obviously guessed
    that I'm
    a different terminal and everything is messed up. (EG: "D" for default
    is
    rendered as a "B".)

    I also telgated into another BBS (Ezycom) - and on connection it did
    not
    detect ANSI.

    If I initially use telnet (instead of SSH) - I can hop to other BBSes
    with
    telgate just fine.

    Personally I disabled telgate on my system to avoid 'spoofed' ip address security issues ... anyway, telgate is just that, a telnet_gateway so if
    you ssh into a bbs and use the telgate door it will no longer be an ssh session. You could log onto another board and change your default
    terminal mode to ANSI instead out auto-detect

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ AlleyCat! BBS - http://alleycat.synchro.net:81
  • From Alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to Mortifis on Tue Dec 24 13:56:17 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Mon Dec 23 2019 01:42 pm

    security issues ... anyway, telgate is just that, a telnet_gateway so if you ssh into a bbs and use the telgate door it will no longer be an ssh session. You could log onto another board and change your default

    I'm not intending to use telgate as an SSH session to an upstream system.

    My point was - when I login originally to my BBS via SSH, telgate's connection to an upstream system is messed up. Further leaving that system and returning to my BBS, my BBS session is messed up, so I have to log off and login again.

    If I originally logged into my BBS via a telnet session, telgate's connection to an upstream system is NOT messed up.

    So is this an issue with how SSH has been implemented? It seems to be me the initialisation that SBBS is doing (and perhaps other BBSes) are doing on connection are messing with the in place SSH session.
    ...deon


    ... It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to Alterego on Tue Dec 24 00:32:47 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Mon Dec 23 2019 01:42 pm

    security issues ... anyway, telgate is just that, a
    telnet_gateway so
    if you ssh into a bbs and use the telgate door it will no longer
    be an
    ssh session. You could log onto another board and change your
    default

    I'm not intending to use telgate as an SSH session to an upstream
    system.

    My point was - when I login originally to my BBS via SSH, telgate's connection to an upstream system is messed up. Further leaving that
    system
    and returning to my BBS, my BBS session is messed up, so I have to log
    off
    and login again.

    If I originally logged into my BBS via a telnet session, telgate's connection to an upstream system is NOT messed up.

    So is this an issue with how SSH has been implemented? It seems to be
    me the
    initialisation that SBBS is doing (and perhaps other BBSes) are doing
    on
    connection are messing with the in place SSH session.

    I think you answered your own question :-P AFAIK you cannot mix telnet
    and ssh connections, that is why when you ssh into your board and then
    telnet into another via telgate you are mixing the two, ergo the jumbled text/ansi it is neither a server or syncterm deficiency ... kinda like
    mixing apple juice with orange juice and wondering why it doesn't taste
    like either

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ AlleyCat! BBS - http://alleycat.synchro.net:81
  • From Alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to Mortifis on Tue Dec 24 20:12:40 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Mon Dec 23 2019 07:32 pm

    I think you answered your own question :-P AFAIK you cannot mix telnet and ssh connections, that is why when you ssh into your board and then telnet into another via telgate you are mixing the two, ergo the jumbled text/ansi it is neither a server or syncterm deficiency ... kinda like mixing apple juice with orange juice and wondering why it doesn't taste like either

    Nah, I dont buy that.

    There are 2 TCP sessions going on here - I dont see why the second TCP session should pollute the first. Just the same way web proxies work...
    ...deon


    ... Common sense is instinct. Enough of it is genius.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to Alterego on Tue Dec 24 18:58:40 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Mon Dec 23 2019 07:32 pm

    I think you answered your own question :-P AFAIK you cannot mix telnet and ssh connections, that is why when you ssh into your board and then telnet into another via telgate you are mixing the two, ergo the jumbled text/ansi it is neither a server or syncterm deficiency ... kinda like mixing apple juice with orange juice and wondering why it doesn't taste like either

    Nah, I dont buy that.

    There are 2 TCP sessions going on here - I dont see why the second TCP session should pollute the first. Just the same way web proxies work... ...deon

    I have been experimenting with this issue and have been unable to reproduce what your are reporting. I SSH'd onto my board using Syncterm v1.1b, then telgate'd to a couple other boards via telgate.js and did not have any jumbled characters show up that you have reported ... my original assumption about mixed protocols was incorrect. Which version of SyncTerm are you using and which SBBS version? there is a possibility it may be a latent issue with the old cryptlib ??

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ AlleyCat! BBS - http://alleycat.synchro.net:81
  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to Alterego on Tue Dec 24 19:06:42 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Mon Dec 23 2019 07:32 pm

    I think you answered your own question :-P AFAIK you cannot mix telnet and ssh connections, that is why when you ssh into your board and then telnet into another via telgate you are mixing the two, ergo the jumbled text/ansi it is neither a server or syncterm deficiency ... kinda like mixing apple juice with orange juice and wondering why it doesn't taste like either

    Nah, I dont buy that.

    There are 2 TCP sessions going on here - I dont see why the second TCP session should pollute the first. Just the same way web proxies work...

    May I add an opinion also ... when one SSH's onto a board and then uses telgate.js to log onto another service, there is no encryption between those two points which seems to negate the intention of using SSH to begin with ... plus, the inherent "ip spoof'n" ... I made an SSH connection to my board using a mobile network carrier (juicessh on my android) which has a connection log of my IP address, then I ;exec ?telgate vert.synchro.net and once I was connected it gave the IP address of my
    BBS ... if DM had telgate as a door I could have telgate'd to another board and it would have reported my IP address as Vertrauen ... that is the issue I have with telgate.js ... just saying ...

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ AlleyCat! BBS - http://alleycat.synchro.net:81
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Mortifis on Tue Dec 24 17:28:16 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Tue Dec 24 2019 02:06 pm

    it gave the IP address of my
    BBS ... if DM had telgate as a door I could have telgate'd to another board it would have reported my IP address as Vertrauen ... that is the issue I ha with telgate.js ... just saying ...


    yeah, i have always said that telgate is an open door to abuse. it has happend in the past but luckily the sysops were observant and locked the offender out.

    actually, my taking over datastream bbs after the sysop died is related to this happening. a guy would bounce off 3 or more boards this way and then go onto synchronet irc and say weird shit to deuce.

    i reported the problem and it turned out ace died and his elderly mother and sister where trying to keep his system up and had no clue what to do.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to MRO on Tue Dec 24 21:00:41 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Tue Dec 24 2019 02:06 pm

    it gave the IP address of my
    BBS ... if DM had telgate as a door I could have telgate'd to another board it would have reported my IP address as Vertrauen ... that is the issue I ha with telgate.js ... just saying ...


    yeah, i have always said that telgate is an open door to abuse. it has happend in the past but luckily the sysops were observant and locked the offender out.

    actually, my taking over datastream bbs after the sysop died is related to this happening. a guy would bounce off 3 or more boards this way and then go onto synchronet irc and say weird shit to deuce.

    No wonder Deuce doesn't interatc as much as he used to :-(


    i reported the problem and it turned out ace died and his elderly mother and sister where trying to keep his system up and had no clue what to do.

    I remember Ace ... it is nice that his family tried to legacy, though ... occasionally I hope and wonder if someone will keep AlleyCat! going ... but then again, I mostly wonder why I do LOL ... cheers, brah, Marry Christams

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ AlleyCat! BBS - http://alleycat.synchro.net:81
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Mortifis on Tue Dec 24 17:52:17 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Mon Dec 23 2019 07:32 pm

    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Mon Dec 23 2019 01:42 pm

    security issues ... anyway, telgate is just that, a
    telnet_gateway so
    if you ssh into a bbs and use the telgate door it will no longer
    be an
    ssh session. You could log onto another board and change your
    default

    I'm not intending to use telgate as an SSH session to an upstream
    system.

    My point was - when I login originally to my BBS via SSH, telgate's connection to an upstream system is messed up. Further leaving that
    system
    and returning to my BBS, my BBS session is messed up, so I have to log
    off
    and login again.

    If I originally logged into my BBS via a telnet session, telgate's connection to an upstream system is NOT messed up.

    So is this an issue with how SSH has been implemented? It seems to be
    me the
    initialisation that SBBS is doing (and perhaps other BBSes) are doing
    on
    connection are messing with the in place SSH session.

    I think you answered your own question :-P AFAIK you cannot mix telnet
    and ssh connections, that is why when you ssh into your board and then telnet into another via telgate you are mixing the two, ergo the jumbled text/ansi it is neither a server or syncterm deficiency ... kinda like mixing apple juice with orange juice and wondering why it doesn't taste
    like either

    No, you should be able to connect to a Synchronet system via SSH or RLogin and then telnet-gateway out to another system with no ill effects. At least, that's the intention.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #84:
    The Electronic Frontier Foundation used to run Synchronet (circa 1993).
    Norco, CA WX: 56.3°F, 73.0% humidity, 5 mph ENE wind, 0.04 inches rain/24hrs

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to Mortifis on Thu Dec 26 00:31:05 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Tue Dec 24 2019 01:58 pm

    I have been experimenting with this issue and have been unable to reproduce what your are reporting. I SSH'd onto my board using Syncterm v1.1b, then telgate'd to a couple other boards via telgate.js and did not have any jumbled characters show up that you have reported ... my original

    I was actually wondering if it was SyncTerm 1.0 related - knowing that there are updates to Syncterm, but sadly not for a MAC I belive.

    assumption about mixed protocols was incorrect. Which version of SyncTerm are you using and which SBBS version? there is a possibility it may be a latent issue with the old cryptlib ??

    So, SyncTerm 1.0, SBBS built a week ago - so not sure if it is SBBS and/or SyncTerm... That gives me an idea though - I'll try another terminal emulator to see if it is Syncterm.
    ...deon


    ... Several excuses are always less convincing than one.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!
  • From Alterego@VERT/ALTERANT to Mortifis on Thu Dec 26 00:33:20 2019
    Re: Re: SSH session using telgate
    By: Mortifis to Alterego on Tue Dec 24 2019 02:06 pm

    May I add an opinion also ... when one SSH's onto a board and then uses telgate.js to log onto another service, there is no encryption between those two points which seems to negate the intention of using SSH to begin with ... plus, the inherent "ip spoof'n" ... I made an SSH connection to

    I get that - telnet is an unsecure protocol and I'm not expecting the first leg SSH to secure the subsequent legs.

    In my case, I'm using my main BBS as a launch point to other BBS configs I have running (internally) - and I was playing with SSH and hence reported what may (or may not be) a bug.
    ...deon


    ... When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, "What do you need?"

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Alterant | an SBBS in Docker on Pi!