• Re: Unable to connect to GitHub in Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browse

    From nospam@needed.com@1:124/5013 to All on Sun Jan 6 07:13:06 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Paul <nospam@needed.com>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer,microsoft.public.windowsxp,microsoft.publ ic.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
    Subject: Re: Unable to connect to GitHub in Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browser?
    Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 02:13:05 -0500
    Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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    Message-ID: <n6iel0$3o3$1@dont-email.me>
    References: <OpGdnRJ9OqzBJRHLnZ2dnUU7-c-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
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    Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:126570 microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:31795

    Ant wrote:
    Hello.

    How come I cannot connect to https://github.com/ in 2 different
    machines' Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browsers? They show:

    "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage

    What you can try:
    Diagnose Connection Problems

    More information

    This problem can be caused by a variety of issues, including:

    ???Internet connectivity has been lost.
    ???The website is temporarily unavailable.
    ???The Domain Name Server (DNS) is not reachable.
    ???The Domain Name Server (DNS) does not have a listing for the website's domain.
    ???There might be a typing error in the address.
    ???If this is an HTTPS (secure) address, click Tools, click Internet Options, click Advanced, and check to be sure the SSL and TLS protocols
    are enabled under the security section.

    For offline users

    You can still view subscribed feeds and some recently viewed webpages.
    To view subscribed feeds

    1.Click the Favorites Center button , click Feeds, and then click the
    feed you want to view.

    To view recently visited webpages (might not work on all pages)

    1.Click Tools , and then click Work Offline.
    2.Click the Favorites Center button , click History, and then click the
    page you want to view."


    Is anyone seeing this problem too? I don't know what to change in the
    IE's options. Thank you in advance. :)

    SHA-2 certificates, with no fallback implemented by server owner ???

    https://blog.cloudflare.com/sha-1-deprecation-no-browser-left-behind/

    Paul
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From V@nguard.LH@1:124/5013 to All on Sun Jan 6 09:58:18 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!n ewsfeed.kamp.net!newsfeed.kamp.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!no t-for-mail
    From: VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support Subject: Re: Unable to connect to GitHub in Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browser?
    Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 03:58:17 -0600
    Organization: Usenet Elder
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    Sender: VanguardLH <>
    Message-ID: <df46pqF7vovU1@mid.individual.net>
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    Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:126572 microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:31796

    Ant wrote on 2016/01/06:

    Note: The following newsgroups not included in my reply because they are
    not carried by my Usenet provider (individual.net):

    microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer
    microsoft.public.windowsxp

    How come I cannot connect to https://github.com/ in 2 different
    machines' Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browsers? They show:

    "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage

    Is anyone seeing this problem too? I don't know what to change in the
    IE's options.

    https://help.github.com/articles/supported-browsers/

    My recollection is that the base version of Internet Explorer was
    version 6 included in a fresh install of Windows XP. WinXP came with
    IE8 and you could not uninstall it (but could hide it) as Windows
    usually does not let you remove the baseline version (because HTAs -
    HTML Applications - need the IE libraries). IE9 was the highest version
    you could install in Windows XP. So you should update from IE8 to IE9.

    Github's statement says that you cannot connect even if you updated from
    IE to IE9. That is because the old SSL and use of weak certificates
    made IE (and other web browsers) vulnerable to malicious use. Many
    sites requires TLS, a later version of SSL, and removal of the weak
    certs when you securely connect (via HTTPS) to their site.

    Github won't let you insecurely connect to them. They demand HTTPS
    connects. If you try an insecure connect (http://github.com), their
    server will redirect to a secure connect (https://github.com).

    So stop using Internet Explorer on Windows XP. Switch to a better web
    browser that supports TLS and other security methods when connecting to
    web sites; e.g., Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome (or their variants).
    My aunt ran into the rejection problem with her Windows XP and using
    Internet Explorer 9 many months ago. There was a stink back then about
    using weak "secure" connects that could be exploited. She now uses
    Firefox and has no problems connecting to any of the previously
    problematic HTTPS web sites, plus it renders pages a lot faster with
    less artifacts (bad painting) in the page's content.

    Nothing you can change on Windows XP. See below in what you can do in
    IE. or in the options for Internet Explorer. Those are too old to
    provide secure (HTTPS) connections for many sites. Some sites still
    support vulnerable SSL 2.0 connections. SSL 3.0 is basically what is
    TLS 1.0 but sites are often looking for a specific encryption protocol.
    Plus sites may require TLS 2.0 at a minimum, so using TLS 1.0 (available
    back in IE8) and SSL 3.0 won't help. If you go into IE's advanced
    options under the security section, is there a TLS option you can enable
    to use that for HTTPS connects?

    If you disable SSL 3.0, you will find some old sites (old in that they
    still support SSL) that won't work. You should disable SSL 1.0 and SSL
    2.0 and enable SSL 3.0 and leave disabled TLS 1.0, TLS 1.1, and TLS 1.2.
    Then connect to every domain (not every site within domain) that uses
    HTTPS (or redirects from HTTP to HTTPS) in your Favorites list to see if
    any will fail to connect via SSL. Then disable SSL 3.0 and retest. You
    might find some sites won't connect using SSL 3.0 as they have moved to
    TLS. So then disable SSL 3.0 and enable all the TLS options. Retest.
    You might find some sites that are still using SSL 3.0 so you'll have to
    decide if you want to continue visiting those sites.

    The TLS options are available in IE9, not IE8. So it is likely that you
    will need to upgrade from IE8 to IE9 to get HTTPS connects to sites that
    have upped their security (by getting new site certs). Although you
    might upgrade to IE9 and ensure the TLS options are enabled (and SSL
    2.0, at least, is disabled although SSL 3.0 should be disabled, too), it
    is possible a site will look at the User-Agent header sent by your web
    browser. A site can refuse a connection from a web browser of a lesser
    version than they mandate as the minimum. In that case, you could use
    the UApick add-on for IE to have it lie in doling out a UA string for a different and new web browser. However, that will also mean the site
    may alter its HTML code to make it compatible with that reported web
    browser but results in failures in rendering in your real web browser.
    When you lie about what web browser you use, the site will assume it can
    use the HTML applicable to that reported web browser (by brand and
    version).
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From jj4public@vfemail.net@1:124/5013 to All on Sun Jan 6 10:17:30 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!n ews.albasani.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: JJ <jj4public@vfemail.net>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer,microsoft.public.windowsxp,microsoft.publ ic.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
    Subject: Re: Unable to connect to GitHub in Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browser?
    Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 17:17:30 +0700
    Organization: ?
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    NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 10:16:38 +0000 (UTC)
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    Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:126573 microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:31797

    On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 00:46:52 -0600, Ant wrote:

    Hello.

    How come I cannot connect to https://github.com/ in 2 different
    machines' Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browsers? They show:

    "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage

    What you can try:
    Diagnose Connection Problems

    More information

    This problem can be caused by a variety of issues, including:

    ???Internet connectivity has been lost.
    ???The website is temporarily unavailable.
    ???The Domain Name Server (DNS) is not reachable.
    ???The Domain Name Server (DNS) does not have a listing for the website's domain.
    ???There might be a typing error in the address.
    ???If this is an HTTPS (secure) address, click Tools, click Internet Options, click Advanced, and check to be sure the SSL and TLS protocols
    are enabled under the security section.

    For offline users

    You can still view subscribed feeds and some recently viewed webpages.
    To view subscribed feeds

    1.Click the Favorites Center button , click Feeds, and then click the
    feed you want to view.

    To view recently visited webpages (might not work on all pages)

    1.Click Tools , and then click Work Offline.
    2.Click the Favorites Center button , click History, and then click the
    page you want to view."

    Is anyone seeing this problem too? I don't know what to change in the
    IE's options. Thank you in advance. :)

    It's because the builtin cryptography library in Windows XP doesn't support SHA-256. That library is used by MSIE.

    Simple solution is to switch to another browser that doesn't use Trident
    (the MSIE's web engine). e.g. Firefox or Chrome/ium or any of browsers based
    on those two.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From ANTant@zimage.com@1:124/5013 to All on Mon Jan 7 01:13:42 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!n ews.glorb.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews .com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED! not-for-mail
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:13:42 -0600
    From: ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
    Subject: Re: Unable to connect to GitHub in Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browser?
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer,microsoft.public.windowsxp,microsoft.publ ic.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
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    Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:13:42 -0600
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    X-Trace: sv3-hEuAVjJlRM22weKW7BG1O6nzv9kF3FdBdWwNOG0ZmCG3pqHaGpT4fR18xbBjqWV10ND+z76p9w+ AIF/!KoxNo2Usap11NyuKmtAmRdBJorOP/sYH5pFK0yx3udTTG9Er2g8xKMiyEvrCJooqWiorcgg3bK Wy!CsXA3wO+ysWUlFPFCwrPv4Ur85VzdhI=
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    SHA-2 certificates, with no fallback implemented by server owner ???

    https://blog.cloudflare.com/sha-1-deprecation-no-browser-left-behind/

    Oh. :(
    --
    Quote of the Week: "The ant's a centaur in his dragon world. Pull down
    thy vanity, it is not man... Made courage, or made order, or made
    grace,... Pull down thy vanity, I say pull down. Learn of the green
    world what can be thy place... In scaled invention or true artistry,...
    Pull down thy vanity,... Paquin pull down! The green casque has outdone
    your elegance." --Ezra Pound's poem
    Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
    / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
    | |o o| |
    \ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
    ( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From ANTant@zimage.com@1:124/5013 to All on Mon Jan 7 01:14:06 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!n ews.glorb.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews .com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED! not-for-mail
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:14:06 -0600
    From: ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
    Subject: Re: Unable to connect to GitHub in Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browser?
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer,microsoft.public.windowsxp,microsoft.publ ic.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
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    Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:14:06 -0600
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    X-Trace: sv3-0Svux8rxCx82/UMUY4Uyp5T29IOUU3UmMvDQm+3sVxExXDM8xXuEgPxhMz2iuorkzkuryYEVehm +4zs!0mJUkk97SKZ+w6H3j8CiRC/n3cnXuiERduKTWhb5p1irLcWkck58otniz1mQ5w7csu2viyFZRi hH!Dwl2ao9IEkIlxHaU4Ar3BHDhe7Phgkk=
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    It's because the builtin cryptography library in Windows XP doesn't support SHA-256. That library is used by MSIE.

    Simple solution is to switch to another browser that doesn't use Trident
    (the MSIE's web engine). e.g. Firefox or Chrome/ium or any of browsers based on those two.

    Thanks. :(
    --
    Quote of the Week: "The ant's a centaur in his dragon world. Pull down
    thy vanity, it is not man... Made courage, or made order, or made
    grace,... Pull down thy vanity, I say pull down. Learn of the green
    world what can be thy place... In scaled invention or true artistry,...
    Pull down thy vanity,... Paquin pull down! The green casque has outdone
    your elegance." --Ezra Pound's poem
    Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
    / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
    | |o o| |
    \ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
    ( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From ANTant@zimage.com@1:124/5013 to All on Mon Jan 7 01:29:40 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!n ews.glorb.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews .com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED! not-for-mail
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:29:39 -0600
    From: ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
    Subject: Re: Unable to connect to GitHub in Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browser?
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support References: <OpGdnRJ9OqzBJRHLnZ2dnUU7-c-dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <df46pqF7vovU1@mid.individual.net>
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    Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 19:29:39 -0600
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    Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:126585 microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:31800

    How come I cannot connect to https://github.com/ in 2 different
    machines' Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browsers? They show:

    "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage

    Is anyone seeing this problem too? I don't know what to change in the
    IE's options.

    https://help.github.com/articles/supported-browsers/

    My recollection is that the base version of Internet Explorer was
    version 6 included in a fresh install of Windows XP. WinXP came with

    Yes.


    IE8 and you could not uninstall it (but could hide it) as Windows
    usually does not let you remove the baseline version (because HTAs -
    HTML Applications - need the IE libraries). IE9 was the highest version
    you could install in Windows XP. So you should update from IE8 to IE9.

    Uh, IE9 didn't work on Windows XP.


    Github's statement says that you cannot connect even if you updated from
    IE to IE9. That is because the old SSL and use of weak certificates
    made IE (and other web browsers) vulnerable to malicious use. Many
    sites requires TLS, a later version of SSL, and removal of the weak
    certs when you securely connect (via HTTPS) to their site.

    Github won't let you insecurely connect to them. They demand HTTPS
    connects. If you try an insecure connect (http://github.com), their
    server will redirect to a secure connect (https://github.com).

    So stop using Internet Explorer on Windows XP. Switch to a better web browser that supports TLS and other security methods when connecting to
    web sites; e.g., Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome (or their variants).
    My aunt ran into the rejection problem with her Windows XP and using
    Internet Explorer 9 many months ago. There was a stink back then about
    using weak "secure" connects that could be exploited. She now uses
    Firefox and has no problems connecting to any of the previously
    problematic HTTPS web sites, plus it renders pages a lot faster with
    less artifacts (bad painting) in the page's content.

    Nothing you can change on Windows XP. See below in what you can do in
    IE. or in the options for Internet Explorer. Those are too old to
    provide secure (HTTPS) connections for many sites. Some sites still
    support vulnerable SSL 2.0 connections. SSL 3.0 is basically what is
    TLS 1.0 but sites are often looking for a specific encryption protocol.
    Plus sites may require TLS 2.0 at a minimum, so using TLS 1.0 (available
    back in IE8) and SSL 3.0 won't help. If you go into IE's advanced
    options under the security section, is there a TLS option you can enable
    to use that for HTTPS connects?

    If you disable SSL 3.0, you will find some old sites (old in that they
    still support SSL) that won't work. You should disable SSL 1.0 and SSL
    2.0 and enable SSL 3.0 and leave disabled TLS 1.0, TLS 1.1, and TLS 1.2.
    Then connect to every domain (not every site within domain) that uses
    HTTPS (or redirects from HTTP to HTTPS) in your Favorites list to see if
    any will fail to connect via SSL. Then disable SSL 3.0 and retest. You might find some sites won't connect using SSL 3.0 as they have moved to
    TLS. So then disable SSL 3.0 and enable all the TLS options. Retest.
    You might find some sites that are still using SSL 3.0 so you'll have to decide if you want to continue visiting those sites.

    The TLS options are available in IE9, not IE8. So it is likely that you
    will need to upgrade from IE8 to IE9 to get HTTPS connects to sites that
    have upped their security (by getting new site certs). Although you
    might upgrade to IE9 and ensure the TLS options are enabled (and SSL
    2.0, at least, is disabled although SSL 3.0 should be disabled, too), it
    is possible a site will look at the User-Agent header sent by your web browser. A site can refuse a connection from a web browser of a lesser version than they mandate as the minimum. In that case, you could use
    the UApick add-on for IE to have it lie in doling out a UA string for a different and new web browser. However, that will also mean the site
    may alter its HTML code to make it compatible with that reported web
    browser but results in failures in rendering in your real web browser.
    When you lie about what web browser you use, the site will assume it can
    use the HTML applicable to that reported web browser (by brand and
    version).

    But there is no IE9 for Windows XP.
    --
    Quote of the Week: "The ant's a centaur in his dragon world. Pull down
    thy vanity, it is not man... Made courage, or made order, or made
    grace,... Pull down thy vanity, I say pull down. Learn of the green
    world what can be thy place... In scaled invention or true artistry,...
    Pull down thy vanity,... Paquin pull down! The green casque has outdone
    your elegance." --Ezra Pound's poem
    Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
    / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
    | |o o| |
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    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From V@nguard.LH@1:124/5013 to All on Mon Jan 7 05:45:08 2019
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    From: VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support Subject: Re: Unable to connect to GitHub in Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browser?
    Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 23:45:07 -0600
    Organization: Usenet Elder
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    Sender: VanguardLH <>
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    Ant wrote on 2016/01/06:
    <attribution lines re-added to show who said what>

    VanguardLH wrote:

    IE9 was the highest version
    you could install in Windows XP. So you should update from IE8 to IE9.

    Uh, IE9 didn't work on Windows XP.

    My bad. I thought IE9 could be installed on Windows XP. According to:

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/products/ie-9/system-requi rements

    Nope, IE9 won't install (if that's what you mean by "didn't work) on
    Windows XP according to Microsoft.

    But there is no IE9 for Windows XP.

    Yep, so you won't have the TLS protocols in your web browser that are
    required by that site (and many others that dropped SSL and switched to
    TLS). So you are stuck with a decision: get blocked by sites that
    require safer connects via HTTPS or, as mentioned, "Switch to a better
    web browser that supports TLS and other security methods when connecting
    to web sites; e.g., Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome (or their
    variants)."

    A few years ago, many sites refused to let IE6 users connect. Not a
    secure web browser and long unsupported. Then it was IE8. Since you
    cannot get IE9 on Windows XP, you have to use some other web browser on
    Windows XP.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From ANTant@zimage.com@1:124/5013 to All on Tue Jan 8 03:02:00 2019
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    From: ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
    Subject: Re: Unable to connect to GitHub in Windows XP Pro SP3's IE8 web browser?
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    In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
    Ant wrote on 2016/01/06:
    <attribution lines re-added to show who said what>

    VanguardLH wrote:

    IE9 was the highest version
    you could install in Windows XP. So you should update from IE8 to IE9.

    Uh, IE9 didn't work on Windows XP.

    My bad. I thought IE9 could be installed on Windows XP. According to:


    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/products/ie-9/system-requi rements

    Nope, IE9 won't install (if that's what you mean by "didn't work) on
    Windows XP according to Microsoft.

    Sorry, I meant install. :)


    But there is no IE9 for Windows XP.

    Yep, so you won't have the TLS protocols in your web browser that are required by that site (and many others that dropped SSL and switched to
    TLS). So you are stuck with a decision: get blocked by sites that
    require safer connects via HTTPS or, as mentioned, "Switch to a better
    web browser that supports TLS and other security methods when connecting
    to web sites; e.g., Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome (or their
    variants)."

    A few years ago, many sites refused to let IE6 users connect. Not a
    secure web browser and long unsupported. Then it was IE8. Since you
    cannot get IE9 on Windows XP, you have to use some other web browser on Windows XP.

    Thanks. :)
    --
    Quote of the Week: "The ant's a centaur in his dragon world. Pull down
    thy vanity, it is not man... Made courage, or made order, or made
    grace,... Pull down thy vanity, I say pull down. Learn of the green
    world what can be thy place... In scaled invention or true artistry,...
    Pull down thy vanity,... Paquin pull down! The green casque has outdone
    your elegance." --Ezra Pound's poem
    Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
    / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
    | |o o| |
    \ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
    ( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)