• Ten Years Ago

    From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to All on Thu Jun 13 09:31:38 2019
    Hello Everybody,

    Ten years ago (12 June 2009) U.S. television stations
    ended analog broadcasts in favor of digital transmission.
    When will FidoNet sysops decide to end IPv4 in favor of
    IPv6 as their standard?

    --Lee

    --
    Our Nuts, Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Jun 13 18:06:34 2019
    On 13/06/2019 13:31, Lee Lofaso -> All wrote:
    Hello Everybody,

    Ten years ago (12 June 2009) U.S. television stations
    ended analog broadcasts in favor of digital transmission.
    When will FidoNet sysops decide to end IPv4 in favor of
    IPv6 as their standard?

    It won't be before IP6 is available to everyone.

    --

    Gang warily
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Jun 13 12:34:03 2019
    On 13 Jun 19 05:31:38, Lee Lofaso said the following to All:

    Ten years ago (12 June 2009) U.S. television stations
    ended analog broadcasts in favor of digital transmission.
    When will FidoNet sysops decide to end IPv4 in favor of
    IPv6 as their standard?

    Oh wise one, please entertain and enlighten all of us as to how any of this
    has to do with the nodelist.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Nick Andre on Fri Jun 14 09:53:50 2019
    Hello Nick,

    Ten years ago (12 June 2009) U.S. television stations
    ended analog broadcasts in favor of digital transmission.
    When will FidoNet sysops decide to end IPv4 in favor of
    IPv6 as their standard?

    Oh wise one, please entertain and enlighten all of us as to how any of
    this
    has to do with the nodelist.

    Michiel van der Vlist expained it all to us a good while back -
    in the Fidonews. Basically, IPv4 is a dinosaur, and its days are
    done. IPv6 is the new kid on the block, with everyone jumping
    on board. At some point, nobody will have a choice, as IPv6
    will be the only game in town.

    That is what this has to do with the nodelist.

    Being a conscientious wannabe sysop, I plan to fully heed
    Michiel's advice by going whole hog with IPv6. The only question
    is when ...

    --Lee

    --
    We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Jun 14 06:45:10 2019
    On 06-13-19 05:31, Lee Lofaso <=-
    spoke to All about Ten Years Ago <=-

    Ten years ago (12 June 2009) U.S. television stations
    ended analog broadcasts in favor of digital transmission.
    When will FidoNet sysops decide to end IPv4 in favor of
    IPv6 as their standard?

    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:46:48, 14 Jun 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Jun 14 10:49:37 2019
    On 14 Jun 19 05:53:50, Lee Lofaso said the following to Nick Andre:

    Michiel van der Vlist expained it all to us a good while back -
    in the Fidonews. Basically, IPv4 is a dinosaur, and its days are
    done. IPv6 is the new kid on the block, with everyone jumping

    We've all heard Michiel's sky-is-falling IP nonsense for so long now. Its all he ever goes on about from his highhorse soapbox. Nothing else being contributed to the hobby but this. Which would be fine, except that its been used by him over the years as a means to insult and belittle those who do not have it. Especially against Zone 1 Sysops. And if its not IPV6, its some other soapbox nonsense. Zone 1 conspiracies, Janis, the NAB, the FTSC, the anarchy of missing kludge lines... Many channels of noise to pick from to tune out.

    But the nodelist is just a text file that lists connectivity information. It has nothing to do with what IP addressing scheme is the current fad of the time.

    In the 1980's the connectivity fad was dialup modems. Its 2019 and I still
    see them listed. Including mine.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dale Shipp on Fri Jun 14 19:07:52 2019
    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    Then you know wrong.

    With a tunnel like e.g. he.net you get a stable IPv6 address regardless of what your ISP can offer you. It takes less than a minute to get one. If your IPv4 address changes, it takes only seconds to update your IPv6 -- much faster than updating your IPv4 via various TTL settings at all DNS servers involved...

    I've had a reliable IPv6 connection for almost 15 years now -- and I'm still
    waiting for my ISP to offer me a "native" IPv6 address.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Jeff Smith@1:282/1031 to Björn Felten on Fri Jun 14 13:51:40 2019
    Hello Björn,

    With a tunnel like e.g. he.net you get a stable IPv6 address regardless of what your ISP can offer you. It takes less than a minute to get one.

    Wrong... It took me almost two minutes to get a tunnel from he.net. :-)

    Why you might ask since I already have a native IPv6 address. The simple answer
    is that I have seen much discussion on the subject of tunnels but have never gotten any personnel hand experience. So.. I decided to see for my self.

    I may ask some questions if the need arises.

    Jeff


    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: Fidoneet: The Ouija Board - Anoka, MN -bbs.ouijabrd.net (1:282/1031)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Jeff Smith on Fri Jun 14 22:57:46 2019
    It takes less than a minute to get one.

    Wrong... It took me almost two minutes to get a tunnel from he.net. :-)

    Darn! :)

    Why you might ask since I already have a native IPv6 address.

    Not really, I could have chosen an ISP with native IPv6 support, but decided
    that there were more important factors to take into account. And I'm quite comfortable (and satisfied) with the tunnel approach.

    have never gotten any personnel hand experience. So.. I decided to see
    for my self.

    That's the true Fidonet spirit. 8-)

    I may ask some questions if the need arises.

    Bring it on, man!



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Sat Jun 15 04:52:02 2019
    Hello Björn,

    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    Then you know wrong.

    With a tunnel like e.g. he.net you get a stable IPv6 address regardless of what your ISP can offer you. It takes less than a minute to get one. If your IPv4 address changes, it takes only seconds to update your IPv6 -- much faster than updating your IPv4 via various TTL settings at all DNS servers involved...

    I've had a reliable IPv6 connection for almost 15 years now -- and I'm
    still
    waiting for my ISP to offer me a "native" IPv6 address.

    Publishers will be forced to go with IPv6, leaving your ISP no choice
    but to give you what you want. Michiel warned us all about this a long
    time ago, in the Fidonews. But did anybody listen, or want to listen? Nooooooo..... The Flying Dutchman had flown off his handle once again
    and not a single living soul wanted to listen to another word ...

    --Lee

    --
    Erections, That's Our Game

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dale Shipp on Sat Jun 15 04:52:08 2019
    Hello Dale,

    Ten years ago (12 June 2009) U.S. television stations
    ended analog broadcasts in favor of digital transmission.
    When will FidoNet sysops decide to end IPv4 in favor of
    IPv6 as their standard?

    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    Publishers will be forced to go to IPv6 in the near future.
    In which case you will have no choice.
    Unless you want to use your system as a boat anchor.

    .. Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:46:48, 14 Jun 2019

    At least you are on land rather than water ...

    --Lee

    --
    I Take A Sheet In The Pool

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Nick Andre on Sat Jun 15 04:52:18 2019
    Hello Nick,

    Michiel van der Vlist expained it all to us a good while back -
    in the Fidonews. Basically, IPv4 is a dinosaur, and its days are
    done. IPv6 is the new kid on the block, with everyone jumping

    We've all heard Michiel's sky-is-falling IP nonsense for so long now. Its all
    he ever goes on about from his highhorse soapbox. Nothing else being contributed to the hobby but this. Which would be fine, except that its
    been
    used by him over the years as a means to insult and belittle those who do not
    have it. Especially against Zone 1 Sysops. And if its not IPV6, its some other
    soapbox nonsense. Zone 1 conspiracies, Janis, the NAB, the FTSC, the
    anarchy
    of missing kludge lines... Many channels of noise to pick from to tune
    out.

    But the nodelist is just a text file that lists connectivity information.
    It
    has nothing to do with what IP addressing scheme is the current fad of the time.

    In the 1980's the connectivity fad was dialup modems. Its 2019 and I still see them listed. Including mine.

    In the very near future, publishers will be forced to go to IPv6 only.
    What are you (and others) going to do then? Wait for another rant by
    Fidonet's favorite Dutchman to be posted to the few sysops who remain?
    I doubt he will waste the effort, as the only sysops remaining will be
    those with IPv6.

    Nothing is stopping sysops from updating their systems now. So
    why wait? It is only themselves they have to blame on this one.

    In this case, Chicken Little is right. The sky really is falling.

    --Lee

    --
    Laying Pipe Since '88

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Jun 14 23:01:07 2019
    On 15 Jun 19 00:52:18, Lee Lofaso said the following to Nick Andre:

    In the very near future, publishers will be forced to go to IPv6 only.
    What are you (and others) going to do then? Wait for another rant by Fidonet's favorite Dutchman to be posted to the few sysops who remain?

    I'll take the word of my ISP over a soapbox Dutchman any day of the week.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Björn Felten on Sat Jun 15 15:18:00 2019
    On 06-14-19 15:07, Björn Felten wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    Then you know wrong.

    With a tunnel like e.g. he.net you get a stable IPv6 address
    regardless of what your ISP can offer you. It takes less than a minute
    to get one. If your IPv4 address changes, it takes only seconds to
    update your IPv6 -- much faster than updating your IPv4 via various TTL settings at all DNS servers involved...

    I've had a reliable IPv6 connection for almost 15 years now -- and
    I'm still waiting for my ISP to offer me a "native" IPv6 address.

    Tunneling, by its nature, offers less efficient routing and possibly slower throughput, due to suboptimal routing, but depending on your location, you may be able to mitigate this by choosing a POP as close as possible to your location. This had been an issue for me, because a lot of tunnel providers didn't offer POPs in Australia, meaning really slow routing (adding 200+ mS to RTTs. All academic for me now, because my IPv6 has been native since 2011, and for my BBSs, they have better network performance on IPv6, because their IPv4 addresses are brought in over an OpenVPN tunnel!

    But yes, he.net's 6in4 tunneling is one of the best options available. I used to use it for a US based VPS that didn't have native IPv6.


    ... Silence cannot be misquoted.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Dale Shipp on Sat Jun 15 15:19:00 2019
    On 06-14-19 02:45, Dale Shipp wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    You can always get a tunnel, which is independent of your ISP, or switch ISPs, if netive IPv6 is important to you (and someone in your area offers it).


    ... I was abducted by aliens and all I got was this lousy implant.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Nick Andre on Sat Jun 15 15:24:00 2019
    On 06-14-19 06:49, Nick Andre wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

    But the nodelist is just a text file that lists connectivity
    information. It has nothing to do with what IP addressing scheme is the current fad of the time.

    My entry in the nodelist is simply a hostname, which can be reached on IPv4 and IPv6. The nodelist doesn't care. It's the DNS records that advertise the connectivity options (A record for IPv4, AAAA for IPv6). My Fidonet nodelisted binkp hostname has both A and AAAA records, and I doubt any nodelist processing software has barfed on it. :)

    In the 1980's the connectivity fad was dialup modems. Its 2019 and I
    still see them listed. Including mine.

    I don't have one of those nowadays, though sometimes, I'm tempted to put up a modem on VoIP as an experiment. But I seriously doubt it will get any callers.


    ... Hangnail: Coat hook.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to BjöRn Felten on Sat Jun 15 06:43:02 2019
    On 06-14-19 15:07, Björn Felten <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about IPv6 connectivity <=-


    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    Then you know wrong.

    With a tunnel like e.g. he.net you get a stable IPv6
    address regardless of what your ISP can offer you. It takes
    less than a minute to get one. If your IPv4 address
    changes, it takes only seconds to update your IPv6 -- much
    faster than updating your IPv4 via various TTL settings at
    all DNS servers involved...

    I've had a reliable IPv6 connection for almost 15 years now -- and
    I'm still waiting for my ISP to offer me a "native" IPv6
    address.

    OK -- but the real question for me is why should I do that? I do
    understand the fact that IPv4 addresses are running out, and the reason
    for going to IPv6 -- but so long as I get a reliable connection using
    IPv4, why bother jumping through extra hoops?

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:45:34, 15 Jun 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Lee Lofaso on Sat Jun 15 06:55:06 2019
    On 06-15-19 00:52, Lee Lofaso <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Ten Years Ago <=-

    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    Publishers will be forced to go to IPv6 in the near future.
    In which case you will have no choice.
    Unless you want to use your system as a boat anchor.

    My computer has IPv6 drivers and software -- whenever my ISP decides to
    use it, (or is forced to use it), my computer should be able to handle
    it. Until then, why should I worry?

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:57:31, 15 Jun 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Tony Langdon on Sat Jun 15 06:58:08 2019
    On 06-15-19 11:19, Tony Langdon <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Ten Years Ago <=-

    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    You can always get a tunnel, which is independent of your ISP, or
    switch ISPs, if netive IPv6 is important to you (and someone in your
    area offers it).

    My real question is why should I? At the moment I can do anything I
    want to do using what my ISP provides, which is IPv4. It is not
    important to me and I am certainly not going to switch my ISP anytime
    soon.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 03:00:14, 15 Jun 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Sat Jun 15 13:46:44 2019
    Hello Tony,

    On Saturday June 15 2019 11:24, you wrote:

    I don't have one of those nowadays, though sometimes, I'm tempted to
    put up a modem on VoIP as an experiment. But I seriously doubt it
    will get any callers.

    When I ran Irex in combination with InterMail, I had a POTS modem connected to the VOIP port of the Motorrola surfboard cable modem provided by my ISP. It worked but milage varied. I usually got around 20K with and occasional 24K and sometimes dropping to 2400 Bps. Other than the few I provoked for testing I didn't get any incoming calls for a period of five years and so when I converted my system from Frodo style to BSO, I didn't bother to reinstall the POTS stuff. That was about ten years ago. Since then I am IP only. I don't miss
    POTS.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/6 to Bj÷rn Felten on Sat Jun 15 16:06:36 2019
    Hi Bj÷rn.

    14 Jun 19 15:07:52, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

    So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

    Then you know wrong.

    With a tunnel like e.g. he.net you get a stable IPv6 address regardless of what your ISP can offer you. It takes less than a minute to get one. If your IPv4 address changes, it takes only seconds to update your IPv6 -- much faster than updating your IPv4 via various TTL settings at all DNS servers involved...

    I've had a reliable IPv6 connection for almost 15 years now

    And still after 15 years of "reliable ipv6 connection" :

    tommi@rpi:~$ telnet -6 eljaco.se 119
    Trying 2001:470:27:302::2...
    telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
    tommi@rpi:~$

    :D

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** (2:221/6)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Dale Shipp on Sat Jun 15 23:21:00 2019
    On 06-15-19 02:58, Dale Shipp wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    My real question is why should I? At the moment I can do anything I
    want to do using what my ISP provides, which is IPv4. It is not
    important to me and I am certainly not going to switch my ISP anytime soon.

    Well, it depends how quickly public IPv4 addresses dry up for end users.


    ... Every sun has a golden lining
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat Jun 15 23:23:00 2019
    On 06-15-19 09:46, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    When I ran Irex in combination with InterMail, I had a POTS modem connected to the VOIP port of the Motorrola surfboard cable modem provided by my ISP. It worked but milage varied. I usually got around
    20K with and occasional 24K and sometimes dropping to 2400 Bps. Other than the few I provoked for testing I didn't get any incoming calls for
    a period of five years and so when I converted my system from Frodo
    style to BSO, I didn't bother to reinstall the POTS stuff. That was
    about ten years ago. Since then I am IP only. I don't miss POTS.

    I've forgotten the last time I used POTS, but it was well over 10 years ago, that's for sure. Possibly nearer 15 years ago. Still got several POTS modems kicking around.


    ... I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dale Shipp on Sat Jun 15 15:59:44 2019
    Hello Dale,

    On Saturday June 15 2019 02:58, you wrote to Tony Langdon:

    You can always get a tunnel, which is independent of your ISP, or
    switch ISPs, if netive IPv6 is important to you (and someone in
    your area offers it).

    My real question is why should I?

    How about exploring new technology? What happened to that pioneer spirit that made Fidonet such a great a success?

    At the moment I can do anything I want to do using what my ISP
    provides, which is IPv4.

    It will not last forever. How about avoiding surprises and get yourself familiar with the new technology so that when you find your IPv4 behind CGNAT, you don't have to panic?

    How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Jun 15 17:10:25 2019
    And still after 15 years of "reliable ipv6 connection" :

    tommi@rpi:~$ telnet -6 eljaco.se 119
    Trying 2001:470:27:302::2...
    telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
    tommi@rpi:~$

    Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is not one of them.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Sat Jun 15 12:38:06 2019

    On 2019 Jun 15 13:10:24, you wrote to Tommi Koivula:

    tommi@rpi:~$ telnet -6 eljaco.se 119
    Trying 2001:470:27:302::2...
    telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
    tommi@rpi:~$

    Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is not
    one of them.

    look at that command line again... port 119 is the NNTP port... is your news server not available on your IPv6?

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Guy's World: Same work .. more pay.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Michiel Van Der Vlist on Sun Jun 16 03:54:02 2019
    On 06-15-19 11:59, Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Ten Years Ago <=-

    My real question is why should I? [get IPv6 on my own]

    MVDV> How about exploring new technology? What happened to that
    MVDV> pioneer spirit that made Fidonet such a great a success?

    Two responses to that.
    1. The technology that I learned and used is no longer very relevant. I
    have been fully retired for more than a decade and am quite content to
    leave that sort of thing to others.
    2. For me, Fidonet has always been about the content it carries, i.e.
    the echomail of topics I care about.

    At the moment I can do anything I want to do using what my ISP
    provides, which is IPv4.

    MVDV> It will not last forever. How about avoiding surprises and
    MVDV> get yourself familiar with the new technology so that when
    MVDV> you find your IPv4 behind CGNAT, you don't have to panic?

    I am not now familiar with IPv4, transport layers, and all that stuff.
    Nor do I see a need to be. It works, and does what it is supposed to
    do. I pay my ISP for service and am satisfied with what they provide.
    I do not know what you mean by CGNAT?

    MVDV> How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?

    I don't fix my roof. I call my roofer, they come out and determine what
    needs to be done and do it. I pay them and life is good.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 00:01:27, 16 Jun 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dale Shipp on Sun Jun 16 15:25:49 2019
    Hello Dale,

    On Saturday June 15 2019 23:54, you wrote to me:

    I do not know what you mean by CGNAT?

    Carrier Grade NAT.

    A technology similar to the NAT that you use in your LAN to share a public IP address with many devices.

    When ISP's run out of IPv4 addresses, they can revert to CGNAT to share one public address among many subscribers. Those subscribers no longer get a public
    address, but an address in a reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or 100.64.0.0/10.

    If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier-grade_NAT

    MVDV>> How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?

    I don't fix my roof. I call my roofer, they come out and determine
    what needs to be done and do it. I pay them and life is good.

    I rest my case.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Fabio Bizzi@2:335/364.3 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Jun 16 19:31:19 2019
    Hello, Michiel van der Vlist.
    On 16/06/19 11:25 you wrote:

    When ISP's run out of IPv4 addresses, they can revert to CGNAT to
    share one public address among many subscribers. Those subscribers
    no longer get a public address, but an address in a reserved
    range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or 100.64.0.0/10.
    The last class 100.64.0.0/10 is reserved for the internal connections (like p2p) of the provider's devices and it shoudn't be used for the customer's network (like for the end user ip address, neither for the nat of this one).
    --
    Ciao! :)
    Fabio.
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: ]\/[imac boss android point (2:335/364.3)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Fabio Bizzi on Sun Jun 16 19:51:55 2019
    Hello Fabio,

    On Sunday June 16 2019 15:31, you wrote to me:

    reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or
    100.64.0.0/10.

    The last class 100.64.0.0/10 is reserved for the internal connections (like p2p) of the provider's devices and it shoudn't be used for the customer's network (like for the end user ip address, neither for the
    nat of this one)

    I deliberately wrote "reserved range" instead of "private range". The range 100.64.0.0/10 (RFC6598) should indeed not be used for local adresses in the customers network. (RFC1918) But they ARE used as addresses handed out to CPE'.
    On my 3G internet dongle I often get an RFC1918 address. Using RFC6598 addresses for the WAN address in the CPE avoids conflicts with RFC1918 addresses in the LAN part of the CPE.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Jun 16 14:14:58 2019

    On 2019 Jun 16 11:25:48, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

    When ISP's run out of IPv4 addresses, they can revert to CGNAT to
    share one public address among many subscribers. Those subscribers no longer get a public address, but an address in a reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or 100.64.0.0/10.

    If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

    that is wrong... you can still run servers... you just have a limited audience... the type of address you have has absolutely no bearing on whether you can run servers or not...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Old Virus detected! Contact your hacker for an update.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to mark lewis on Sun Jun 16 20:42:58 2019
    Hello mark,

    On Sunday June 16 2019 10:14, you wrote to me:

    reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or
    100.64.0.0/10.

    If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

    that is wrong... you can still run servers... you just have a limited audience... the type of address you have has absolutely no bearing on whether you can run servers or not...

    Yeah, ok mr Knowitall, I was totally wrong and you are totally absolutely right. Yes, one can run a server. Even without any Internet connection. When your ISP puts you on CGNAT I hope you enjoy running a server that no one outside your LAN can reach. Good luck.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Jun 16 15:36:46 2019

    On 2019 Jun 16 16:42:58, you wrote to me:

    reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or
    100.64.0.0/10.

    If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

    that is wrong... you can still run servers... you just have a limited
    audience... the type of address you have has absolutely no bearing on
    whether you can run servers or not...

    Yeah, ok mr Knowitall, I was totally wrong and you are totally absolutely right.

    no need to be snarky...

    Yes, one can run a server. Even without any Internet connection.

    exactly... some of my clients do exactly that... all access is from their internal LANs...

    When your ISP puts you on CGNAT I hope you enjoy running a server that
    no one outside your LAN can reach. Good luck.

    no luck needed if that's one's need/desire...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Are these magic brownies? -Mary. They're Pepperidge Farm. -Dick
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Michiel Van Der Vlist on Mon Jun 17 04:29:00 2019
    On 06-16-19 11:25, Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Ten Years Ago <=-

    I do not know what you mean by CGNAT?

    MVDV> Carrier Grade NAT.

    MVDV> A technology similar to the NAT that you use in your LAN to
    MVDV> share a public IP address with many devices.

    That makes sense to me.

    MVDV> If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

    I don't run a server.

    MVDV>> How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?

    I don't fix my roof. I call my roofer, they come out and determine
    what needs to be done and do it. I pay them and life is good.

    MVDV> I rest my case.

    Exactly. I pay someone who is technically capable to do the job. I do
    not have any need to worry about how they do it. They do it, and life
    is good.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    MVDV> Cheers, Michiel

    MVDV> -!- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    MVDV> ! Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)



    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 00:32:08, 17 Jun 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Bj÷rn Felten on Tue Jun 18 00:38:00 2019
    Hi Bj÷rn.

    15 Jun 19 13:10:24, you wrote to me:


    And still after 15 years of "reliable ipv6 connection" :

    tommi@rpi:~$ telnet -6 eljaco.se 119
    Trying 2001:470:27:302::2...
    telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
    tommi@rpi:~$

    Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is not one of them.

    <Sigh>

    If you don't know what the port 119 is used for, check your services file in your C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc directory.

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Jun 18 01:45:11 2019
    Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is
    not one of them.

    If you don't know what the port 119 is used for,

    You don't understand what "only for certain services" means?



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dale Shipp on Tue Jun 18 04:29:49 2019
    Hello Dale,

    On Monday June 17 2019 00:29, you wrote to me:

    MVDV>> Carrier Grade NAT.

    MVDV>> A technology similar to the NAT that you use in your LAN to
    MVDV>> share a public IP address with many devices.

    That makes sense to me.

    I can imagine that for someone who only uses the InterNet as a client/server model and who looks at it from the client side, CGNAT is a good solution to the
    IPv4 address exhaustion problem.

    MVDV>> If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

    For the nitpickers: you can not make you servers accessable for clients outside
    your local network.

    I don't run a server.

    That is what I suspected all along but could never make you admit. Until now.

    Well... if you do not run servers and do not play certain games and only use your internet connection to so some web surfing, do some e-mail and in general only use applications that require just a client connection, you have nothing to worry about.

    It will keep working from behind a CGNAT.

    MVDV>>> How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?

    I don't fix my roof. I call my roofer, they come out and
    determine what needs to be done and do it. I pay them and life
    is good.

    MVDV>> I rest my case.

    Exactly. I pay someone who is technically capable to do the job. I do
    not have any need to worry about how they do it. They do it, and life
    is good.

    OK.

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Bj÷rn Felten on Tue Jun 18 09:55:12 2019
    Hi Bj÷rn.

    17 Jun 19 21:45:10, you wrote to me:

    Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is
    not one of them.

    If you don't know what the port 119 is used for,

    You don't understand what "only for certain services" means?

    I do. Your news server "eljaco.se" has AAAA record but it does not work.

    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Michiel Van Der Vlist on Tue Jun 18 03:44:02 2019
    On 06-18-19 00:29, Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Ten Years Ago <=-

    MVDV>> If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

    MVDV> For the nitpickers: you can not make you servers accessable
    MVDV> for clients outside your local network.

    That sounds like a good thing :-}}


    I don't run a server.

    MVDV> That is what I suspected all along but could never make you admit.
    MVDV> Until now.

    Not a big secret -- just not very relevant so it never came up.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 23:46:42, 17 Jun 2019
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Jun 18 11:10:52 2019

    I don't run a server.

    That is what I suspected all along but could never make you admit. Until now.

    Oh dear ... that information has been in the nodelist for some time already ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dale Shipp on Tue Jun 18 14:18:39 2019
    Hello Dale,

    On Monday June 17 2019 23:44, you wrote to me:

    I don't run a server.

    MVDV>> That is what I suspected all along but could never make you
    MVDV>> admit. Until now.

    Not a big secret -- just not very relevant so it never came up.

    It DID come up. On several occasions you have claimed to run a BBS and that you
    had users. When I asked for the connect information, you always said it was available to the users. You would not give it to me.

    A BBS is a server. Now you say you do not run a server.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Jun 18 15:45:19 2019
    I do. Your news server "eljaco.se" has AAAA record

    It does? That's strange. I thought that it was a DNS record. DN of course meaning Domain Name, not Server Name.





    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)