• Moderator election kick-off

    From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to All on Sat Nov 24 03:42:13 2018
    The current moderator Vince Coen has in accordance with the rules of the echo announced that there will be a moderator election for FIDO_SYSOP and announced it as such in this conference.

    The Election Coordinator is Ward Dossche of 2:292/854. The Verifying Officer is
    Ben Ritchey of 1:393/68.

    Time frame of the election:

    Note that in order to keep date confusion to a minimum all dates are shown in *nix and some European country formats, e.g., ccyy.mm.dd hh:mm:ss - (hh is in the 24 hour clock format, cc = century).

    UTC is the official replacement name for GMT & means exactly the same.

    * From now, until 2018.12.01 23:59 UTC:
    Submission of candidacies and debate.

    * 2018.12.02 00:00 UTC through 2018.12.08 23:59 UTC:
    Voting.

    * 2018.12.09 00:00 UTC:
    Announcement of preliminary results.

    * 2018.12.09 00:00 UTC through 2018.12.15 23:59 UTC:
    Filing protests/complaints, and resolution of these by the Election Coordinator.

    * 2018.12.16 12:00 UTC:
    Appointment of the winner of this election as FIDO_SYSOP's moderator for a period of two years (24 months), after confirmation by the Verifying Officer.

    Eligibility to be a candidate and to vote:

    Candidates must announce their candidacy themselves by placing a message in this echo addressed to "Election Coordinator" with subject "Candidate". This message must arrive at the system of the Election Coordinator before the deadline of Saturday December 1st at 23:59:59 UTC. The sending of such an announcement direct, or as close as you can get, to Ward Dossche at 2:292/854 and to Ben Ritchey at 1:393/68 as a back up is recommended. The same applies to
    voting, see below.

    Candidates and voters must be listed as a sysop in the Fidonet NODELIST.327 of Friday November 23rd as issued by, or on behalf of their ZC. Other types of nodelist files will not be considered.

    The address used in the echo and netmails for both purposes (announcing the candidacy and voting), must be one that is in the specified nodelist. No point addresses will be accepted.

    Candidates may not be identified by node numbers associated with a "Down", "Hold", "Zone", "Region", "Hub" or "Host" entry. For example if an RC wishes to
    be a candidate, s/he must use his/her regular node number and not the "/0"-number and signed by their known name as in the nodelist.

    "Pvt"-nodes are allowed as long as they are listed with verifiable contact information.

    Nodes without verifiable listed contact information, are excluded.

    The election coordinator will acknowledge the candidacy with a message in the echo after verifying their status within the nodelist. The Verifying Officer will do so likewise after that for the purposes of verification.

    Announcement of candidates by third parties will be disregarded.

    Candidates are encouraged to post an "election platform", stating who they are,
    what they propose for the echo's future and why they think they will be up to the job.

    Candidates will use their real name as listed in the nodelist, handles or aliases will not be validated / accepted.

    If there is no candidate on 2018.12.01 23:59 UTC, the election terminates without a vote and the existing moderator is confirmed as the moderator for the
    next term of two years.

    If there is only one candidate, the election terminates without a vote and that
    person is confirmed as the moderator for the two year term.

    If there is more than one candidate, the election proceeds.

    Eligibility to vote:

    Simple, see rules for being a candidate.

    Voting procedure:

    Voting is confidential.

    A vote is cast by sending two netmails, one to the "Election Coordinator" at 2:292/854, and a copy must be sent to the "Verifying Officer" at 1:393/68.

    The body of the netmail must contain the name of the candidate of choice and a password or pass phrase. Please use the spelling for the name as listed in the nodelist.

    When possible do not use routed netmail, but preferably use direct mail only. Make certain the mail arrives at both the Election Coordinator's and the Verifying Officer's systems before the deadline. The time stamp of the Election
    Coordinator's tosser will be the deciding factor. Don't forget the system is in
    Europe and will enforce UTC times.

    The election Coordinator will send a copy of the vote to the Verifying Officer to confirm that both system are seeing the same level of votes for each candidate.

    The Election Coordinator will acknowledge reception of the vote by netmail to the voter.

    A vote cast is a vote cast. No second thoughts.

    Every eligible individual sysop is allowed one vote only.

    After the voting is closed, the Election Coordinator will publish a list of the
    passwords that were received for each candidate. The names of the voters will remain confidential.

    The Verifying Officer will confirm the results, or publish a correction within three days of the election end date.


    Submission of protests:

    A protest can only be filed by an individual eligible to vote and that has done
    so.

    Send a preferably direct netmail to both "Election Coordinator" at 2:292/854 and to "Verifying Officer" at 1:393/68 describing your grievances.

    The Election Coordinator will examine the complaint and will rule on it, with the participation of the Verifying Officer.

    If the protest is rejected, the election proceeds along its time line without any further action.

    If the protest is accepted, the tally of the votes will be modified.

    If, as a result of the protest, the number of candidates is reduced to one, then the election ends and the remaining candidate will be confirmed as the new
    moderator.

    If as a result of the protest, the number of candidates is reduced to zero, then the outgoing moderator Vince Coen is confirmed for another term of two years.


    Tiebreaker:

    If after counting the votes, the result is tied between 2 or more candidates then there will be a run off vote with the process starting again with candidates with a lower vote count dropping out of the election.

    Ward Dossche Ben Ritchie
    Election Coordinator Vote Verifier

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Election Coordinator@2:292/854 to Ward Dossche on Tue Nov 27 13:20:32 2018
    Reminder ...

    UTC is the official replacement name for GMT & means exactly the same.
    * From now, until 2018.12.01 23:59 UTC:
    Submission of candidacies and debate.

    Debate in this echo in the past was extremely heated when it concerned moderators ...

    If no candidate shows up then per the election Rules Vince Coen continues, or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Election Coordinator on Tue Nov 27 05:48:53 2018
    Re: Re: Moderator election kick-off
    By: Election Coordinator to Ward Dossche on Tue Nov 27 2018 08:20 am

    Debate in this echo in the past was extremely heated when it concerned moderators ...

    I think the past debate was about elections, lack of an election or timing.. Mid-march and all that.

    I never had any reason to debate the current moderator (or the previous one) at all.

    I'm happy enough with Vince moderating the echo. If he were to step down I suppose we'd need an election but I haven't heard or read him say he wished to do so.. so I'm happy with the status quo.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... I couldn't repair the brakes.. So I made your horn louder!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Election Coordinator on Tue Nov 27 14:00:46 2018
    Hi Election,

    On 2018-11-27 08:20:32, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    ...
    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    Can I vote for that option regardless? ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Election Coordinator@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Tue Nov 27 14:57:56 2018
    Alan,

    I'm happy enough with Vince moderating the echo. If he were to step down
    I suppose we'd need an election but I haven't heard or read him say he wished to do so.. so I'm happy with the status quo.

    Per the rules of this echo, Vince "has" stepped down and favours not to continue by default. He is not running for renewal of the mandate.

    He asked for volunteers to run an election and I stepped forward, Ben Ritchey◄ (with "ey") is vote verifier.

    You must've missed some messages.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Election Coordinator on Tue Nov 27 15:08:32 2018
    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    ...or we collectively decide to make do without the toothless tiger that a moderator is. After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone doesn't even recognize...



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Election Coordinator on Tue Nov 27 07:01:09 2018
    Re: Re: Moderator election kick-off
    By: Election Coordinator to Alan Ianson on Tue Nov 27 2018 09:57 am

    Per the rules of this echo, Vince "has" stepped down and favours not to continue by default. He is not running for renewal of the mandate.

    I read Vince's election call. He didn't mention he wanted to step down.

    He asked for volunteers to run an election and I stepped forward, Ben Ritchey (with "ey") is vote verifier.

    I read that too.

    You must've missed some messages.

    If Vince said that, I did miss it.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Never argue with a woman when she's tired, or rested.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Election Coordinator@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Tue Nov 27 19:15:50 2018

    Alan,

    If Vince said that, I did miss it.

    I am sorry for putting you on the wrong foot.

    Vince told me in a private conversation ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to Election Coordinator on Tue Nov 27 15:17:27 2018
    Election wrote:
    Per the rules of this echo, Vince "has" stepped down and favours not to continue by default. He is not running for renewal of the mandate.

    He asked for volunteers to run an election and I stepped forward, Ben
    Ritchey^Q
    (with "ey") is vote verifier.

    You must've missed some messages.

    That makes 2 of us then. I don't recall seeing that.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Nov 27 16:25:06 2018

    On 2018 Nov 27 09:00:46, you wrote to Election Coordinator:

    ...
    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    Can I vote for that option regardless? ;)

    everyone who wants to can do it now without casting any vote... simply disconnect and add it to your "no-carry" list of areas that you don't want to carry at all... they're generally hand maintained and have hign enough security
    so that other systems cannot see or link to them...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... A fat woman is a quilt for the winter. -Punjabi Proverb
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Nov 27 17:24:58 2018
    Re: Re: Moderator election kick-off
    By: Wilfred van Velzen to mark lewis on Tue Nov 27 2018 18:15:13

    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...
    Can I vote for that option regardless? ;)
    everyone who wants to can do it now without casting any vote...
    simply disconnect and add it to your "no-carry" list of areas
    that you don't want to carry at all... they're generally hand
    maintained and have hign enough security so that other systems
    cannot see or link to them...
    Yeah, duh... I want it globaly deleted, not just on my own system... ;)

    yeah, that (global deletion) won't happen just like it didn't happen with AVIATION and numerous other echos over the years...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to mark lewis on Tue Nov 27 23:15:13 2018
    Hi mark,

    On 2018-11-27 11:25:06, you wrote to me:

    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    Can I vote for that option regardless? ;)

    everyone who wants to can do it now without casting any vote... simply disconnect and add it to your "no-carry" list of areas that you don't want to carry at all... they're generally hand maintained and have hign enough security so that other systems cannot see or link to them...

    Yeah, duh... I want it globaly deleted, not just on my own system... ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Tue Nov 27 19:36:05 2018
    On 27 Nov 18 18:15:13, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Mark Lewis:

    everyone who wants to can do it now without casting any vote... simply disconnect and add it to your "no-carry" list of areas that you don't to carry at all... they're generally hand maintained and have hign eno security so that other systems cannot see or link to them...

    Yeah, duh... I want it globaly deleted, not just on my own system... ;)

    I want a few Sysops globally deleted, not just on my own system.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Election Coordinator on Wed Nov 28 13:11:56 2018
    On 27/11/2018 08:20, Election Coordinator -> Ward Dossche wrote:
    Reminder ...

    UTC is the official replacement name for GMT & means exactly the same.
    * From now, until 2018.12.01 23:59 UTC:
    Submission of candidacies and debate.

    Debate in this echo in the past was extremely heated when it concerned moderators ...

    If no candidate shows up then per the election Rules Vince Coen
    continues, or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Nov 28 13:13:35 2018
    On 27/11/2018 18:00, Wilfred van Velzen -> Election Coordinator wrote:
    Hi Election,

    On 2018-11-27 08:20:32, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    ...
    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    Can I vote for that option regardless? ;)

    So... just because you are not interested no-one else is allowed to be either?

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Nov 28 13:15:42 2018
    On 28/11/2018 03:15, Wilfred van Velzen -> mark lewis wrote:

    disconnect and add it to your "no-carry" list of areas that you don't want
    to carry at all... they're generally hand maintained and have high enough
    security so that other systems cannot see or link to them...

    Yeah, duh... I want it globaly deleted, not just on my own system... ;)

    How would you propose to force everyone to delete it from their systems?


    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Election Coordinator@2:292/854 to David Drummond on Wed Nov 28 04:41:14 2018

    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    I don't give a shit.

    The outgoing moderator asked me to run an election along existing and previously used rules.


    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to David Drummond on Wed Nov 28 06:12:07 2018
    David wrote:
    On 28/11/2018 03:15, Wilfred van Velzen -> mark lewis wrote:

    disconnect and add it to your "no-carry" list of areas that you don't
    want
    to carry at all... they're generally hand maintained and have high enough
    security so that other systems cannot see or link to them...

    Yeah, duh... I want it globaly deleted, not just on my own system... ;)

    How would you propose to force everyone to delete it from their systems?

    Well, a bottle of decent whiskey would be the best option to get The End Of
    The Line's sysop to do anything :)
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to David Drummond on Wed Nov 28 13:52:05 2018
    Hi David,

    On 2018-11-28 08:13:35, you wrote to me:

    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    Can I vote for that option regardless? ;)

    So... just because you are not interested no-one else is allowed to be either?

    How do you get from "I want to vote for something" to "no-one else is allowed"?

    And it's not that I am not interested in matters discussed, but I think 1 area about a particular subject should be enough...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to David Drummond on Wed Nov 28 13:49:48 2018
    Hi David,

    On 2018-11-28 08:15:42, you wrote to me:

    I want it globaly deleted, not just on my own system... ;)

    How would you propose to force everyone to delete it from their systems?

    Hence the smiley. ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Nov 28 14:53:48 2018
    On 2018 Nov 28 08:52:04, you wrote to David Drummond:

    And it's not that I am not interested in matters discussed, but I
    think 1 area about a particular subject should be enough...

    one area was enough until someone followed fidonet tradition and voted with their feet by starting and moving their discussion(s) to a new area...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Sometimes you just have to get your fuckin halo dirty.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to David Drummond on Wed Nov 28 17:01:34 2018
    On 28 Nov 18 08:11:56, David Drummond said the following to Election Coordinato

    If no candidate shows up then per the election Rules Vince Coen continues, or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo

    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.

    I'm curious why this echo (and others) needs a moderator at all...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to mark lewis on Wed Nov 28 22:25:15 2018

    one area was enough until someone followed fidonet tradition and voted
    with their feet by starting and moving their discussion(s) to a new
    area...

    In the former unified region 28 (Belgium/Netherlands) Michiel had a very simple
    solution ... kill all echoes that are useless and keep just a general chitchat echo and one for administrative stuff.

    So most of the nonsense was trashcanned.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to mark lewis on Wed Nov 28 23:08:59 2018
    Hi mark,

    On 2018-11-28 09:53:48, you wrote to me:

    And it's not that I am not interested in matters discussed, but I
    think 1 area about a particular subject should be enough...

    one area was enough until someone followed fidonet tradition and voted
    with
    their feet by starting and moving their discussion(s) to a new area...

    If the reasons for this split no longer exist, we can collectively decide to no
    longer use the area, and encourage others to not use it either, and remove it from their systems... I can dream... ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 29 00:32:38 2018
    Hi Nick,

    On 2018-11-28 12:01:34, you wrote to David Drummond:

    I'm curious why this echo (and others) needs a moderator at all...

    So he (or she) can abolish the area. Maybe I should run as a candidate...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Wed Nov 28 19:18:08 2018
    On 28 Nov 18 19:32:38, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    I'm curious why this echo (and others) needs a moderator at all...

    So he (or she) can abolish the area. Maybe I should run as a candidate...

    We don't need a moderator to abolish an area... we just stop using it.

    We also do not need monthly-rules or stats or anything to perpetuate the idea that a dead echo needs to be moderated. We have enough of that already.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Miller on Thu Nov 29 02:50:40 2018

    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.

    I Initially read this as "FIDO_ERECTION". I think it makes more sense
    that way.

    And what would be the female counterpart of that ?

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 29 11:39:14 2018
    On 28/11/2018 12:01, Nick Andre -> David Drummond wrote:

    If no candidate shows up then per the election Rules Vince Coen
    continues, or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo

    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.

    I'm curious why this echo (and others) needs a moderator at all...

    I think that some people get a woody about constant "elections".

    The fact is that the only person who can moderate any messages is the authors of those messages themselves.

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Nigel Reed on Thu Nov 29 11:40:05 2018
    On 28/11/2018 17:12, Nigel Reed -> David Drummond wrote:

    Yeah, duh... I want it globaly deleted, not just on my own system... ;)

    How would you propose to force everyone to delete it from their systems?

    Well, a bottle of decent whiskey would be the best option to get The End
    Of
    The Line's sysop to do anything :)

    How about some indecent whiskey?

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Nov 29 11:43:23 2018
    On 28/11/2018 17:52, Wilfred van Velzen -> David Drummond wrote:

    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    Can I vote for that option regardless? ;)

    So... just because you are not interested no-one else is allowed to be
    either?

    How do you get from "I want to vote for something" to "no-one else is allowed"?

    Hardly anyone votes, even when they agree, or disagree with the topic being voted on.

    Why must all comply with a small number of peoples wishes when those people can
    simply drop the echo.

    And it's not that I am not interested in matters discussed, but I think
    1 area about a particular subject should be enough...

    Then only link to one echo per subject. You are not under any obligation to link to all echoes... or are you?

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Mike Miller on Thu Nov 29 11:44:47 2018
    On 29/11/2018 05:35, Mike Miller -> David Drummond wrote:


    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.


    I Initially read this as "FIDO_ERECTION". I think it makes more sense that way.

    Does constant voting for moderators give you a woody?

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Nov 29 04:30:30 2018
    Hello, Wilfred van Velzen.
    On 28/11/2018 18:32 you wrote:

    From Wilfred van Velzen To Nick Andre
    Hi Nick,
    On 2018-11-28 12:01:34, you wrote to David Drummond:
    I'm curious why this echo (and others) needs a moderator at all...
    So he (or she) can abolish the area. Maybe I should run as a candidate...

    +1

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --
    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: *** nntps://rpi.rbb.bbs.fi *** (2:221/360)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to David Drummond on Wed Nov 28 18:35:25 2018

    Hello David!

    28 Nov 18 08:11, you wrote to Election Coordinator:


    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.


    I Initially read this as "FIDO_ERECTION". I think it makes more sense that way.

    Mike


    ... "Knights in white satin, nevew weaching the end..." * Moody Fudds
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to Ward Dossche on Wed Nov 28 23:13:26 2018
    Hello Ward!

    28 Nov 18 21:50, you wrote to me:


    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.

    I Initially read this as "FIDO_ERECTION". I think it makes more
    sense that way.

    And what would be the female counterpart of that ?

    FIDO_LADYBONER ?


    Mike


    ... Graphic Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to David Drummond on Wed Nov 28 23:14:31 2018
    Hello David!

    29 Nov 18 06:44, you wrote to me:


    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.


    I Initially read this as "FIDO_ERECTION". I think it makes
    more sense that way.

    Does constant voting for moderators give you a woody?


    I see you got the joke. Sort of.

    Mike


    ... Of the choice of two evils, I pick the one I've never tried before.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 29 06:59:04 2018
    I'm curious why this echo (and others) needs a moderator at all...

    That's exactly what I was saying the other day:

    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    ...or we collectively decide to make do without the toothless tiger that a moderator is. After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone doesn't even recognize...




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to Ward Dossche on Thu Nov 29 01:56:12 2018
    You posted on 23rd November, 2018 at 22:42,

    "* From now, until 2018.12.01 23:59 UTC: Submission of candidacies and debate."

    Don't you and others think that is a very brief period for accepting candidates?

    It's -almost- as bad as the gov't over here posting on Friday's ... everyone is
    'away' or has their mind attuned to other details of family on weekends.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Janis Kracht on Thu Nov 29 12:49:27 2018
    Janis,

    Don't you and others think that is a very brief period for accepting candidates?

    No.

    Except for the different dates and a few cosmetic changes, these are exactly the same rules as used in 2016 (and probably 2014) at which time it apparently was not an issue.

    These rules were discussed with Vince Coen and Ben Ritchey (Vote Verifier). Both agreed with them.

    It's -almost- as bad as the gov't over here posting on Friday's ... everyone is
    'away' or has their mind attuned to other details of family on weekends.

    The reality is that this is a dead echo serving no purpose. The only thing which ever happened here were 2 previous moderator elections ... and now this one. Once the election is over, everyone goes to sleep till the next election. A remnant of the past zone warz...

    Oh yes, there's also the monthly posting of echo rules by 2 independant moderators ... which will now continue.

    To be honest, this echo doesn't need one IMO, we don't even need this echo and after this election I'll either drop it or put it on passthru. A total waste of
    bandwith ...

    But Vince asked me to run a moderator election ... and that is what I am doing.

    Take care,

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to David Drummond on Thu Nov 29 16:40:28 2018
    Hi David,

    On 2018-11-29 06:43:23, you wrote to me:

    Hardly anyone votes, even when they agree, or disagree with the topic being voted on.

    If people don't use their right to have their opinion count, by not voting, they can't complain afterwards...

    Why must all comply with a small number of peoples wishes when those people can simply drop the echo.

    That's not the point.

    And it's not that I am not interested in matters discussed, but I
    think 1 area about a particular subject should be enough...

    Then only link to one echo per subject. You are not under any obligation
    to
    link to all echoes... or are you?

    That's not the point.

    The point is to have 1 area where everything is discussed about a particular subject. So you don't miss out on any interesting discussions that might take place in the other area, you are not connected to. It's also my opinion its better for the flow if discussions are concentrated into one area, than have it
    spread over several "half empty" areas...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 29 17:16:54 2018
    Hi Nick,

    On 2018-11-28 14:18:08, you wrote to me:

    I'm curious why this echo (and others) needs a moderator at
    all...

    So he (or she) can abolish the area. Maybe I should run as a
    candidate...

    We don't need a moderator to abolish an area... we just stop using it.

    Some people need the "official stamp"...

    That moderator can also have it removed from the NAB and the Elist...

    We also do not need monthly-rules or stats or anything to perpetuate
    the idea that a dead echo needs to be moderated. We have enough of
    that already.

    I agree.


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Thu Nov 29 12:50:02 2018
    On 29 Nov 18 12:16:54, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    We don't need a moderator to abolish an area... we just stop using it.

    Some people need the "official stamp"...

    That moderator can also have it removed from the NAB and the Elist...

    Nowhere is it stated that either are authorities to obey, I do not bow to
    any official "stamp"; and I've seen echoes vanish off the Nab that end up with traffic.

    The problem is that once an echo is created, it is for lack of better explanation, "permanent". And this echo does not need a moderator, period.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 29 22:20:11 2018
    The problem is that once an echo is created, it is for lack of better explanation, "permanent". And this echo does not need a moderator,
    period.

    And that is all there is about to be said ... except we don't reqaly need this echo which basically was created out of another echo where people didn't like the moderator.

    In the end the original echo still has traffic and thisone still doesn't ... ... but it will now have a new moderator, so humanity has been saved.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to Ward Dossche on Thu Nov 29 16:35:44 2018
    Hi Ward,

    Don't you and others think that is a very brief period for accepting
    candidates?

    No.

    Fine by me, but it did seem a bit hurried to me. If it's ok with you and others I won't make a big deal of it.

    Except for the different dates and a few cosmetic changes, these are exactly
    the same rules as used in 2016 (and probably 2014) at which time it apparently
    was not an issue.

    The 'rules' of the election were NOT commented on as you must have seen. If others are good with the dates, I'm happy as well.

    These rules were discussed with Vince Coen and Ben Ritchey (Vote Verifier). Both agreed with them.

    Both great people as you know I have said in the past... and I'm glad you contacted them. Please do remember that it was _my_ idea to you to ask Ben to be the vote verifier when you asked me to take the job. Not sure why all the angst now, Ward :)

    It's -almost- as bad as the gov't over here posting on Friday's ...
    everyone is
    'away' or has their mind attuned to other details of family on weekends.

    The reality is that this is a dead echo serving no purpose. The only thing

    Perhaps dead to you, but that's ok.. in the last 30 days, there were 70 messages... in the last year, 530 messages. That's in the 'mostly dead' territory. And it does serve a purpose I think - when other 'like-named' echos
    are run over by jerks and antagonists it almost a retreat.

    A remnant of the past zone warz...

    I don't think so at all... unless you plan to make it one. Discussions in here
    in the last month have been everything but of the 'war zone' type - which never
    really existed in the first place. You and I got along and worked together over the years with perhaps a bump here and there.

    Oh yes, there's also the monthly posting of echo rules by 2 independant moderators ... which will now continue.

    Doesn't have to... why would it start?

    But Vince asked me to run a moderator election ... and that is what I am doing

    I'm glad you are. And yes, he's a good guy as I've said many times, and always
    there when you need him. Both statements are also very true of Ben.

    Take care,
    Janis

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 29 22:40:52 2018
    Hi Nick,

    On 2018-11-29 07:50:02, you wrote to me:

    Some people need the "official stamp"...

    That moderator can also have it removed from the NAB and the Elist...

    Nowhere is it stated that either are authorities to obey, I do not bow to any official "stamp";

    So you are not like some people. ;)

    and I've seen echoes vanish off the Nab that end up with traffic.

    The problem is that once an echo is created, it is for lack of better explanation, "permanent".

    I know. Above actions only help a little bit. But they do make it clear what the situation regarding the echo is.

    And this echo does not need a moderator, period.

    This echo doesn't need to exist, period.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Nov 30 12:17:36 2018
    On 29/11/2018 20:40, Wilfred van Velzen -> David Drummond wrote:

    Then only link to one echo per subject. You are not under any obligation to
    link to all echoes... or are you?

    That's not the point.

    The point is to have 1 area where everything is discussed about a particular subject. So you don't miss out on any interesting discussions that might take place in the other area, you are not connected to. It's also my opinion its better for the flow if discussions are concentrated into one area, than have it spread over several "half empty" areas...

    As in "on size fits all"?

    If you don't want to partake of an echo don't link to it. It's that simple.

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Nov 30 12:20:03 2018
    On 29/11/2018 21:16, Wilfred van Velzen -> Nick Andre wrote:

    We don't need a moderator to abolish an area... we just stop using it.

    Some people need the "official stamp"...

    There are no "officials" in Fidonet echoes.

    That moderator can also have it removed from the NAB and the Elist...

    NAB and Elist do not make up Fidonet echoes. A number of the echoes I am connected to here are not noted there-n but still exist just fine.


    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Nov 30 12:21:22 2018
    On 30/11/2018 02:40, Wilfred van Velzen -> Nick Andre wrote:

    And this echo does not need a moderator, period.

    This echo doesn't need to exist, period.

    But... where would we hold these endless elections???

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Alan Ianson on Thu Nov 29 22:27:39 2018

    ZUTC: -0800
    SGID: 112.fidonet-fidosyso@1:153/757 20624c55
    EPLY: 2:292/854 0a443244
    ID: Synchronet 3.17a-Linux Nov 24 2018 GCC
    ID: SBBSecho 3.06-Linux r3.99 Nov 24 2018 GCC 5.5.0
    Re: Re: Moderator election kick-off
    By: Election Coordinator to Alan Ianson on Tue Nov 27 2018 09:57 am

    Per the rules of this echo, Vince "has" stepped down and favours not
    to
    continue by default. He is not running for renewal of the mandate.

    I read Vince's election call. He didn't mention he wanted to step down.

    He asked for volunteers to run an election and I stepped forward,
    Ben
    Ritchey (with "ey") is vote verifier.

    I read that too.

    You must've missed some messages.

    I missed it, too.

    If Vince said that, I did miss it.

    ... Wonders are many, but none is more wonderful than man.


    Regards,

    Roger

    --- D'Bridge (SR39)
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAia (1:3828/7)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Mike Miller on Thu Nov 29 22:37:14 2018

    SGID: 1:154/30 5bfeee16
    EPLY: 3:640/305 5bfdc126
    ID: SBBSecho 3.06-Linux r3.93 Oct 5 2018 GCC 4.8.5
    HRS: CP850 2
    ZUTC: -0600

    Hello David!

    28 Nov 18 08:11, you wrote to Election Coordinator:


    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.


    I Initially read this as "FIDO_ERECTION". I think it makes more sense
    that way.

    That is a totally different animal.


    Regards,

    Roger

    --- D'Bridge (SR39)
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAia (1:3828/7)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Björn Felten on Thu Nov 29 22:40:33 2018

    SGID: 2:203/2 5bff39d4
    EPLY: 1:229/426 C0A0FF40
    ID: JamNNTPd/Win32 1
    HRS: CP437 2
    ZUTC: 0100
    ID: CrashMail II/Win32 0.71
    I'm curious why this echo (and others) needs a moderator at all...

    That's exactly what I was saying the other day:

    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    ...or we collectively decide to make do without the toothless tiger
    that a moderator is. After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone doesn't even recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.


    Roger

    --- D'Bridge (SR39)
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAia (1:3828/7)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Roger Nelson on Fri Nov 30 11:17:09 2018
    After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone
    doesn't even recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    Really?



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Roger Nelson on Fri Nov 30 13:02:12 2018

    Roger,

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    Let's not start a pissing contest here ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to Roger Nelson on Fri Nov 30 05:57:01 2018

    Hello Roger!

    29 Nov 18 17:37, you wrote to me:


    Can we not continue without a nominated "moderator"?

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.


    I Initially read this as "FIDO_ERECTION". I think it makes more
    sense that way.

    That is a totally different animal.


    If animals are causing you to have that reaction, you should probably see a licensed psychologist.


    Mike


    ... As your Doctor I advise you to drink heavily.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Roger Nelson on Fri Nov 30 06:13:08 2018
    Re: Re: Moderator election kick-off
    By: Roger Nelson to Alan Ianson on Thu Nov 29 2018 05:27 pm

    Hiya Roger,

    You must've missed some messages.

    I missed it, too.

    I haven't read that from Vince but he told Ward privately it seems.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Oh, I almost forgot . . . It's absolutley VITAL to insta
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Björn Felten on Fri Nov 30 09:21:43 2018
    On Fri Nov-30-2018 06:17, Björn Felten (2:203/2) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone
    doesn't even recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    Really?

    That's correct and you know it.


    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Ward Dossche on Fri Nov 30 09:24:10 2018
    On Fri Nov-30-2018 08:02, Ward Dossche (2:292/854) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    Let's not start a pissing contest here ...

    Okay. I won't say more about it.


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ Susan Blakely
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Roger Nelson on Sat Dec 1 13:51:57 2018
    On 29/11/2018 17:40, 1:3828/7 wrote:

    After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone doesn't even recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    Hmmm - isn't that what he intimated (although I guess he didn't state which "entire zone")?

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Mike Miller on Sat Dec 1 13:54:40 2018
    On 30/11/2018 16:57, Mike Miller -> Roger Nelson wrote:

    We could rename the echo to FIDO_ELECTION.

    I Initially read this as "FIDO_ERECTION". I think it makes more
    sense that way.

    That is a totally different animal.

    If animals are causing you to have that reaction, you should probably see a licensed psychologist.

    I noticed on one of those "useless facts" YouTube postings that bestiality is legal in several US states.

    It isn't just the NZ sheep that are nervous....

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to David Drummond on Sat Dec 1 01:08:42 2018
    On 01 Dec 18 08:54:40, David Drummond said the following to Mike Miller:

    I noticed on one of those "useless facts" YouTube postings that bestiality legal in several US states.

    The PC movement in America would have you believe its "Inter-species romance"

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Sat Dec 1 21:24:08 2018
    On 11-27-18 09:00, Wilfred Van Velzen <=-
    spoke to Election Coordinator about Re: Moderator election ki <=-

    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    Can I vote for that option regardless? ;)

    Of course -- everyone can decide for themselves to disconnect from any
    echo. But no one can make that decision for others.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 16:25:51, 01 Dec 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to BjöRn Felten on Sat Dec 1 21:26:10 2018
    On 11-27-18 10:08, Björn Felten <=-
    spoke to Election Coordinator about Moderator election kick-o <=-


    or we collectively decide to disconnect and kill this echo ...

    ...or we collectively decide to make do without the
    toothless tiger that a moderator is. After all it's defined
    in EP1 that an entire zone doesn't even recognize...

    "that no zone recognizes".

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 16:27:10, 01 Dec 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Sat Dec 1 21:27:12 2018
    On 11-27-18 18:15, Wilfred Van Velzen <=-
    spoke to Mark Lewis about Re: Moderator election ki <=-


    Yeah, duh... I want it globaly deleted, not just on my own system...
    ;)

    Why would you care what is carried on other systems?

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 16:28:30, 01 Dec 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Sun Dec 2 07:55:04 2018
    On 11-29-18 17:40, Wilfred Van Velzen <=-
    spoke to Nick Andre about Re: Moderator election ki <=-


    This echo doesn't need to exist, period.

    Unlink from it -- and then it will not exist for you.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:55:51, 02 Dec 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Roger Nelson on Sun Dec 2 07:57:06 2018
    On 11-29-18 17:40, Roger Nelson <=-
    spoke to Björn Felten about Re: Moderator election ki <=-

    ...or we collectively decide to make do without the toothless tiger
    that a moderator is. After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone doesn't even recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    EP1 is not followed anywhere.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:57:43, 02 Dec 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Dale Shipp on Mon Dec 3 11:41:36 2018
    On 2/12/2018 02:55, Dale Shipp -> Wilfred Van Velzen wrote:

    This echo doesn't need to exist, period.

    Unlink from it -- and then it will not exist for you.

    He doesn't appear to want it to exist for anyone else either. If he doesn't want it then nobody should want/have it.

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Dale Shipp on Mon Dec 3 11:42:24 2018
    On 2/12/2018 02:57, Dale Shipp -> Roger Nelson wrote:

    ...or we collectively decide to make do without the toothless tiger
    that a moderator is. After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone
    doesn't even recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    EP1 is not followed anywhere.

    That is not what some Z2 folks tell us.

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to David Drummond on Mon Dec 3 00:40:42 2018
    Hello David!

    01 Dec 18 08:54, you wrote to me:

    If animals are causing you to have that reaction, you should
    probably see a licensed psychologist.

    I noticed on one of those "useless facts" YouTube postings that
    bestiality is legal in several US states.

    True, but it falls under the animal abuse category in those areas.

    It isn't just the NZ sheep that are nervous....

    Fun fact: NZ laws on beastiality are more severe than most of Australia.

    Mike


    ... Help! I've been possessed by a UNIX daemon!
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to David Drummond on Mon Dec 3 06:48:04 2018
    On 12-03-18 06:42, David Drummond <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Moderator election k <=-

    ...or we collectively decide to make do without the toothless tiger
    that a moderator is. After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone
    doesn't even recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    EP1 is not followed anywhere.

    That is not what some Z2 folks tell us.

    Those that say that they follow EP1 are not telling the truth. They may
    follow a few of it provisions, but ignore most of them.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:50:01, 03 Dec 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dale Shipp on Mon Dec 3 14:22:42 2018
    Those that say that they follow EP1 are not telling the truth. They may follow a few of it provisions, but ignore most of them.

    Such as?

    The only edict that we ignore is the one that does not allow us to use our entire alphabets, imposed upon the world wide FidoNet community by ignorant, unilingual USAians.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dale Shipp on Mon Dec 3 14:44:02 2018
    Those that say that they follow EP1 are not telling the truth. They may follow a few of it provisions, but ignore most of them.

    Hmmm ... so how about those who state that P4 is the guiding document but ignore whatever's convenient to ignore? ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: If there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to David Drummond on Mon Dec 3 15:03:30 2018
    Hello David,

    Monday December 03 2018 01:48, Dale Shipp wrote to you:

    EP1 is not followed anywhere.

    That is not what some Z2 folks tell us.

    Those that say that they follow EP1 are not telling the truth.

    So he says.

    But would you trust someone who claims "october" fits "as close to mid march as
    practical" to be the judge of that?



    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Erdogan Molenaar (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Mon Dec 3 15:17:24 2018
    Hello Björn,

    On Monday December 03 2018 09:22, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

    The only edict that we ignore is the one that does not allow us to
    use our entire alphabets, imposed upon the world wide FidoNet
    community by ignorant, unilingual USAians.

    From EP1:

    18. MESSAGE STANDARDS: Until the adoption of a superceding
    standard by the Fidonet Technical Standards Committee, the
    following Echomail message standards will apply:

    a) Eight-bit characters (ASCII 128-255) and non-printing
    low-order codes (ASCII 2-31) are prohibited,

    FTS-5003 covers the use of non ASCII characters. I say that supercedes the ban on 8 bit characters.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Erdogan Molenaar (2:280/5555)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Alan Ianson on Mon Dec 3 08:41:34 2018
    On Fri Nov-30-2018 01:13, Alan Ianson (1:153/757) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    Re: Re: Moderator election kick-off
    By: Roger Nelson to Alan Ianson on Thu Nov 29 2018 05:27 pm

    You must've missed some messages.

    I missed it, too.

    I haven't read that from Vince but he told Ward privately it seems.

    Evidently.


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ Rachel Hunter
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to David Drummond on Mon Dec 3 08:54:55 2018
    On Sat Dec-01-2018 08:51, David Drummond (3:640/305) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    On 29/11/2018 17:40, 1:3828/7 wrote:

    After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone doesn't even
    recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    Hmmm - isn't that what he intimated (although I guess he didn't
    state which "entire zone")?

    I told Ward I would say no more about it.


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ Rosalind Allen
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Dec 3 17:20:59 2018
    MvdV> FTS-5003 covers the use of non ASCII characters. I say that supercedes
    MvdV> the ban on 8 bit characters.

    Yes indeed, and EP1 should of course be updated accordingly. But we all know
    what happens when RCs are involved?

    Maybe take it to ENET.SYSOP and ratify a new version -- just called ECHOPOL for instance? Then at least the vast majority of the Fidonet sysops can ratify it. Other zones are welcome to follow at will. 8-)




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Mon Dec 3 19:23:26 2018
    Hello Björn,

    On Monday December 03 2018 12:20, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> FTS-5003 covers the use of non ASCII characters. I say that
    MvdV>> supercedes the ban on 8 bit characters.

    Yes indeed, and EP1 should of course be updated accordingly.

    Earlier today I was rudely reminded that time is our most precious commodity as
    it is finite and irreplaceable.

    But we all know what happens when RCs are involved?

    What I know is that I will not invest any more time and energy in cat herding exersizes.

    Maybe take it to ENET.SYSOP and ratify a new version -- just called ECHOPOL for instance? Then at least the vast majority of the Fidonet sysops can ratify it. Other zones are welcome to follow at will. 8-)

    You are welcome to try, but I have better things to do.

    It will take a miracle to reach an agreement and even if we ever do, such a policy will be impossible to enforce.

    Sorry, I am not playing.

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Erdogan Molenaar (2:280/5555)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Dale Shipp on Tue Dec 4 12:22:32 2018
    On 3/12/2018 01:48, Dale Shipp -> David Drummond wrote:


    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    EP1 is not followed anywhere.

    That is not what some Z2 folks tell us.

    Those that say that they follow EP1 are not telling the truth. They may follow a few of it provisions, but ignore most of them.

    Much like we all do with Pol4?

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Roger Nelson on Tue Dec 4 12:23:56 2018
    On 3/12/2018 03:54, Roger Nelson -> David Drummond wrote:

    After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone doesn't even
    recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    Hmmm - isn't that what he intimated (although I guess he didn't
    state which "entire zone")?

    I told Ward I would say no more about it.

    Ah - then you'd better not - we don't want to upset him.

    Then again, why should he be exempt from the occasional piss-take?

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Mike Miller on Tue Dec 4 12:25:33 2018
    On 3/12/2018 11:40, Mike Miller -> David Drummond wrote:

    If animals are causing you to have that reaction, you should
    probably see a licensed psychologist.

    I noticed on one of those "useless facts" YouTube postings that
    bestiality is legal in several US states.

    True, but it falls under the animal abuse category in those areas.

    It isn't just the NZ sheep that are nervous....

    Fun fact: NZ laws on beastiality are more severe than most of Australia.

    I must admit I haven't actually researched it here but I am under the impression that all forms of bestiality are illegal in all states of Oz.

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Dec 4 12:33:52 2018
    On 3/12/2018 19:03, Michiel van der Vlist -> David Drummond wrote:

    EP1 is not followed anywhere.

    That is not what some Z2 folks tell us.

    Those that say that they follow EP1 are not telling the truth.

    MvdV> So he says.

    MvdV> But would you trust someone who claims "october" fits "as close to mid
    MvdV> march as practical" to be the judge of that?

    Indeed.

    Have you been away somewhere or just having a hiatus from the echoes?

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to David Drummond on Tue Dec 4 03:45:47 2018
    Hello David,

    On Tuesday December 04 2018 07:33, you wrote to me:

    Have you been away somewhere or just having a hiatus from the echoes?

    I sort of lost interest.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Erdogan Molenaar (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Dec 4 04:16:21 2018
    MvdV> I sort of lost interest.

    That usually doesn't last very long. At least it usually doesn't for me...



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to David Drummond on Tue Dec 4 01:03:24 2018
    On Tue Dec-04-2018 07:23, David Drummond (3:640/305) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    On 3/12/2018 03:54, Roger Nelson -> David Drummond wrote:

    After all it's defined in EP1 that an entire zone doesn't even
    recognize...

    EP1 isn't recognized here.

    Hmmm - isn't that what he intimated (although I guess he didn't
    state which "entire zone")?

    I told Ward I would say no more about it.

    Ah - then you'd better not - we don't want to upset him.

    A man is only as good as his word.

    Then again, why should he be exempt from the occasional piss-take?

    While I don't care for or use that sort of language, I ignore it.


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ Gretchen Moll
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Michiel Van Der Vlist on Tue Dec 4 06:42:04 2018
    On 12-03-18 10:03, Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-
    spoke to David Drummond about Moderator election k <=-

    MVDV> But would you trust someone who claims "october" fits "as
    MVDV> close to mid march as practical" to be the judge of that?

    Who says that?

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)



    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:43:28, 04 Dec 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Ward Dossche on Tue Dec 4 06:44:06 2018
    On 12-03-18 09:44, Ward Dossche <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Moderator election k <=-


    Those that say that they follow EP1 are not telling the truth. They may follow a few of it provisions, but ignore most of them.

    Hmmm ... so how about those who state that P4 is the
    guiding document but ignore whatever's convenient to
    ignore? ...

    Almost all of EP1 is being ignored. What parts of P4 are being ignored
    in your opinion?

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)



    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 01:45:19, 04 Dec 2018
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dale Shipp on Tue Dec 4 15:18:10 2018
    Almost all of EP1 is being ignored. What parts of P4 are being ignored
    in your opinion?

    Proper application of P4 stopped at the zone-border ... until July 1st, we may have a different situation now but that hasn't been tested yet.

    A quick skim of P4 shows there are issues with these elements, but not limited to that ...

    1.3.1 FidoNews
    2.1.8 Exclusivity of Zone Mail Hour
    2.1.9 Private Nodes
    3.4 Minimize the Number of Hats Worn
    3.5 Be a Member of the Area Administered
    7 International Coordinator Procedures
    (full section)
    9.9 Echomail

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: When there's an elephant in the room, introduce him (2:292/854)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to David Drummond on Wed Dec 5 13:24:00 2018
    On 12-04-18 07:23, David Drummond wrote to Roger Nelson <=-

    Then again, why should he be exempt from the occasional piss-take?

    Indeed, there's Aussies in here, taking the piss is a national sport for us, isn't it? :D


    ... Da trouble wit computers is, dey got no sense of humor.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30 to David Drummond on Thu Dec 6 23:15:33 2018

    Hello David!

    04 Dec 18 07:25, you wrote to me:


    I must admit I haven't actually researched it here but I am under the impression that all forms of bestiality are illegal in all states of
    Oz.

    I did a quick wikipedia search on global beastiality laws. Read about it for a couple minutes, and that was enough.

    please don't make me go back. it's not a nice place.



    Mike


    ... Some grow with responsibility, others just swell.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: War Ensemble - warensemble.com - Appleton, WI (1:154/30)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Roger Nelson on Tue Feb 5 23:54:06 2019
    On 3/12/2018 20:03, Roger Nelson -> David Drummond wrote:

    Then again, why should he be exempt from the occasional piss-take?

    While I don't care for or use that sort of language, I ignore it.

    Pity - a standard phrase in Australian vernacular.

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to David Drummond on Tue Feb 5 16:19:27 2019
    On Tue Feb-05-2019 18:54, David Drummond (3:640/305) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    On 3/12/2018 20:03, Roger Nelson -> David Drummond wrote:

    While I don't care for or use that sort of language, I ignore it.

    Pity - a standard phrase in Australian vernacular.

    Don't get me wrong. I know all of the words and most of the phrases. I choose
    not to use them.


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ Eiza González
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Roger Nelson on Wed Feb 6 12:54:38 2019
    On 5/02/2019 11:19, Roger Nelson -> David Drummond wrote:

    While I don't care for or use that sort of language, I ignore it.

    Pity - a standard phrase in Australian vernacular.

    Don't get me wrong. I know all of the words and most of the phrases. I choose not to use them.

    The expression has no more negative connotations here than "liberty" or "democracy".

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to David Drummond on Tue Feb 5 23:06:07 2019
    On Wed Feb-06-2019 07:54, David Drummond (3:640/305) wrote to Roger Nelson:

    On 5/02/2019 11:19, Roger Nelson -> David Drummond wrote:

    While I don't care for or use that sort of language, I ignore it.

    Pity - a standard phrase in Australian vernacular.

    Don't get me wrong. I know all of the words and most of the phrases. I choose not to use them.

    The expression has no more negative connotations here than
    "liberty" or "democracy".

    I'll bet! (-:

    I heard there was some flooding in parts of OZ. Did that affect you?


    Regards,

    Roger
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ Kathryn Bigelow
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Roger Nelson on Wed Feb 6 18:44:04 2019
    On 5/02/2019 18:06, Roger Nelson -> David Drummond wrote:

    The expression has no more negative connotations here than
    "liberty" or "democracy".

    I'll bet! (-:

    I heard there was some flooding in parts of OZ. Did that affect you?

    Not at all - the flooding is several hundred kilometres north of here. The bush
    fires late last year were about 60km north.

    And after no real rain for about a year we've had a couple of showers in the last few nights. The grass is taking on a greener hue.

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to David Drummond on Thu Feb 7 01:42:33 2019

    SGID: 3:640/305 5c5a5800
    EPLY: 1:3828/7.0 c5a1c7b0
    ID: JamNNTPd/Linux 1
    HRS: CP850 2
    ID: CrashMail II/Linux 0.71
    On 5/02/2019 18:06, Roger Nelson -> David Drummond wrote:

    [...]
    I heard there was some flooding in parts of OZ. Did that affect ypi?

    Not at all - the flooding is several hundred kilometres north of here.
    The bush fires late last year were about 60km north.

    I don't recall where the flood area was because I was in and out of a nap and had UTube running and a voice said that in the flood area, people had snakes and crocodiles in their homes.

    And after no real rain for about a year we've had a couple of showers in the last few nights. The grass is taking on a greener hue.

    Green grass is good.


    Regards,

    Roger

    --- D'Bridge (SR41)
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAia (1:3828/7)