• That NAB thingy

    From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Tue Oct 23 20:32:15 2018
    Then I'll say that the FidoWeb is 20 times more effective in catching
    dupes than your precious NAB thingy.

    this has absolutely nothing to do with the NAB...

    Of course it has everything to do with that NAB thingy of yours. With 20 times more dups, than what the sysops using the FidoWeb get, you obviously have
    made some severely bad decisions trying to mimic the FidoWeb.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Bj”rn Felten on Tue Oct 23 20:36:14 2018
    Hi Bj”rn,

    On 2018-10-23 16:32:15, you wrote to mark lewis:


    Of course it has everything to do with that NAB thingy of yours. With
    20 times more dups, than what the sysops using the FidoWeb get, you obviously have made some severely bad decisions trying to mimic the FidoWeb.

    I'm actually a little bit worried I dont get enough dupes. I only got 25 so far
    today. I got plenty of dupes (about 3 each) of mark's messages. But only 1 for the 9 messages Gert sent in de OTHERNET area. And I don't get dupes for other messages at all. The webbing and SEEN+BY checking of some areas seems to be perfect. And that defeats how the fidoweb should work... :-( ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Oct 23 21:12:47 2018
    I'm actually a little bit worried I dont get enough dupes. I only got 25
    so far today.

    So far I have 19 today, yesterday I had 88, Sunday 47...

    My number-crunching quad-core is in deep shit ...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99 SR33
    * Origin: A man's most proud moment is when he takes a shit (2:292/854)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Oct 23 20:58:28 2018
    Hello Wilfred!

    23 Oct 18 16:36, you wrote to Björn Felten:

    I'm actually a little bit worried I dont get enough dupes. I only got 25 so far today. I got plenty of dupes (about 3 each) of mark's messages. But only 1 for the 9 messages Gert sent in de OTHERNET area. And I don't get dupes for other messages at all. The webbing and SEEN+BY checking of some areas seems to be perfect. And that defeats how the fidoweb should work...

    Apparently most of your links are built of triagles. Triagles do not generate
    dupes, and therfore defeat your redundant connections. Apparently marc is
    connected by plenty of polygons, to his dismay.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Kees van Eeten on Tue Oct 23 22:09:19 2018
    Hi Kees,

    On 2018-10-23 16:58:28, you wrote to me:

    I'm actually a little bit worried I dont get enough dupes. I only
    got 25 so far today. I got plenty of dupes (about 3 each) of mark's
    messages. But only 1 for the 9 messages Gert sent in de OTHERNET
    area. And I don't get dupes for other messages at all. The webbing
    and SEEN+BY checking of some areas seems to be perfect. And that
    defeats how the fidoweb should work...

    Apparently most of your links are built of triagles. Triagles do not generate dupes, and therfore defeat your redundant connections. Apparently marc is connected by plenty of polygons, to his dismay.

    So I need more links that are atleast 2 hops away, to create more polygons. Maybe I should link with marc? ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Kees van Eeten on Wed Oct 24 00:27:12 2018
    Apparently most of your links are built of triangles.

    A more likely reason might be that both Allen's and Bill's systems have been
    defunct for quite some time now. They are major FidoWeb nodes.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Oct 24 00:39:39 2018
    Maybe I should link with marc? ;)

    That would be an interesting exercise for sure. But mark unfortunately is a rabid anti-FW fundie, so no can do.

    It is however interesting to notice that even now, when two major FW-nodes are defunct, the FW works just as well as before. One can't help wondering what
    would happen if two major NAB-nodes went defunct...



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to Bj÷rn Felten on Wed Oct 24 01:09:06 2018
    Hello Bj÷rn!

    23 Oct 18 20:27, you wrote to me:

    Apparently most of your links are built of triangles.

    A more likely reason might be that both Allen's and Bill's systems have been defunct for quite some time now. They are major FidoWeb nodes.

    I donot know, Tommi made sure, that nearly all links I had are now in a
    triangle. What what comes in over redundant links, is about a third of
    the volume.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Bj”rn Felten on Wed Oct 24 01:55:40 2018
    Hi Bj”rn,

    On 2018-10-23 20:39:39, you wrote to me:

    Maybe I should link with marc? ;)

    That would be an interesting exercise for sure. But mark unfortunately is a rabid anti-FW fundie, so no can do.

    Maybe it would reduce the number of dupes he receives, because of "shorting out" some of the polygons he's part of? ;)

    It is however interesting to notice that even now, when two major FW-nodes are defunct, the FW works just as well as before. One can't help wondering what would happen if two major NAB-nodes went defunct...

    You don't have to wonder, it's clear what would happen. ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Henri Derksen@2:280/1208 to Björn Felten on Tue Oct 23 18:38:00 2018
    Hello Bjorn,

    why?? because they're not all listed in the seenbys specifically
    because the bubble is not fully connected...

    And that causes you to get 20 times more dups than a FidoWeb node?

    Then I'll say that the FidoWeb is 20 times more effective in catching
    dupes than your precious NAB thingy.

    Donot call the NAB a thingy if you donot want the FidoWeb be called a thingy. By doing what you do, you keep the useless war burning.
    So please stop name calling at both sides, but only use arguments,
    and nothing more.
    Your arguments would be more realistic by leaving that word thingy.
    We must stop hate, as that does not bring us further.

    Greetings from Henri.

    ---
    * Origin: Connectivity is the Future; UniCorn BBS 31 26 4425506 (2:280/1208)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Henri Derksen on Wed Oct 24 21:58:59 2018
    Donot call the NAB a thingy

    Why not? The previous Z1C herself has used the word thingy to define the FW way of distribution for years now.

    Are you implying that it's some kind of a derogatory nomination?

    Wouldn't that be something you'd never expect from a ZC in an FTN distribution discussion? Nah, that would be far too low for me to accept.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to BjöRn Felten on Wed Oct 24 16:13:23 2018
    On 24 Oct 18 17:58:59, Bj*Rn Felten said the following to Henri Derksen:

    Donot call the NAB a thingy

    Why not? The previous Z1C herself has used the word thingy to define the way of distribution for years now.

    Are you implying that it's some kind of a derogatory nomination?

    I like to play with my thingie... its a compliment.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Derek Mullin to Björn Felten on Wed Oct 24 17:37:48 2018
    Re: That FidoWeb thingy
    By: Björn Felten to Henri Derksen on Wed Oct 24 2018 17:58:59

    Why not? The previous Z1C herself has used the word thingy to define the FW way of distribution for years now.

    "She started it." You don't have to stoop to the same sort of silly language someone else is using. When you do, you've let them control the tone of the conversation, and you've entered into a vicious cycle.

    Are you implying that it's some kind of a derogatory nomination?

    I'd call "thingy" a "dismissive" term - though occasionally it'll be used to describe something not fully conceived of, or not well understood.

    "I need to create some kind of teleporation thingy." (Not fully conceived.)

    "Oh, are you talking about that teleporation thingy you made?" (Not well understood.)

    "Oh, you're still using one of those airplane thingies?" (Dismissive.)

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/6.6 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Oct 25 02:26:57 2018


    I'm actually a little bit worried I dont get enough dupes. I only got 25 so far today. I got plenty of dupes (about 3 each) of mark's messages. But only 1 for the 9 messages Gert sent in de OTHERNET area. And I don't get dupes for other messages at all. The webbing and SEEN+BY checking of some areas seems to be perfect. And that defeats how the fidoweb should work... :-( ;)

    Should I turn on IGNORESEEN for you in my Hpt? ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
    SEEN-BY: 103/705 154/10 203/0 221/0 1 6 360 229/275 426 240/1661 5832 280/464
    SEEN-BY: 280/5003 5555 292/624 854 310/31 423/120 712/848 770/1 2320/100 ATH: 280/464 221/0 6

    'Tommi

    --- x ---
    * Origin: point k6000 (2:221/6.6)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Tommi Koivula on Thu Oct 25 01:47:07 2018
    Hi Tommi,

    On 2018-10-24 22:26:57, you wrote to me:

    I'm actually a little bit worried I dont get enough dupes. I only
    got 25 so far today. I got plenty of dupes (about 3 each) of mark's
    messages. But only 1 for the 9 messages Gert sent in de OTHERNET
    area. And I don't get dupes for other messages at all. The webbing
    and SEEN+BY checking of some areas seems to be perfect. And that
    defeats how the fidoweb should work... :-( ;)

    Should I turn on IGNORESEEN for you in my Hpt? ;)

    Good to know you have that option! We might need it in the future. ;)

    But surprisingly I got 4 dupes of your message, that's enough, so leave it as is for now. ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Oct 25 03:28:19 2018
    Hello, Wilfred van Velzen : Tommi Koivula.
    On 24/10/2018 22:47 you wrote:

    Hi Tommi,
    On 2018-10-24 22:26:57, you wrote to me:
    I'm actually a little bit worried I dont get enough dupes. I only WvV>> got 25 so far today. I got plenty of dupes (about 3 each) of mark's WvV>> messages. But only 1 for the 9 messages Gert sent in de OTHERNET
    area. And I don't get dupes for other messages at all. The webbing WvV>> and SEEN+BY checking of some areas seems to be perfect. And that
    defeats how the fidoweb should work... :-( ;)
    Should I turn on IGNORESEEN for you in my Hpt? ;)
    Good to know you have that option! We might need it in the future. ;)

    Actually I'm using that feature of Hpt between 2:221/0 and 2:221/6.

    But surprisingly I got 4 dupes of your message, that's enough, so leave
    it as is for now. ;)

    Good! ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --
    'Tommi

    --- HotdogEd/2.13.5 (Android; Google Android; rv:1) Hotdoged/1480338873000 Hotd
    * Origin: - nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Derek Mullin on Thu Oct 25 04:36:11 2018
    "She started it." You don't have to stoop to the same sort of silly language someone else is using.

    Thanks for confirming my suspicion about her use of the word.

    Who am I, with English not even as my second, but as my third language, to question the nuances in a word used by someone with English as her first language?

    I'd call "thingy" a "dismissive" term - though occasionally it'll be
    used to describe something not fully conceived of, or not well understood.

    "I need to create some kind of teleporation thingy." (Not fully
    conceived.)

    "Oh, are you talking about that teleporation thingy you made?" (Not well understood.)

    "Oh, you're still using one of those airplane thingies?" (Dismissive.)

    Thank you for that educational explanation.

    So, after more than half a decade now, surely there can be no misunderstanding about the FidoWeb being fully conceived and understood, so she
    obviously is trying to dismiss it then?



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Derek Mullin to Björn Felten on Thu Oct 25 14:21:36 2018
    Re: That FidoWeb thingy
    By: Björn Felten to Derek Mullin on Thu Oct 25 2018 00:36:11

    So, after more than half a decade now, surely there can be no misunderstanding about the FidoWeb being fully conceived and understood, so she obviously is trying to dismiss it then?

    That would be my guess, but only she can really say. I've been away from this network for too long to guess at who thinks what about this matter, and thus far I don't care too much.

    Though I can kind of sympathize with Mark Lewis on this; even if the dupes aren't a real problem, the inefficiency of it stings a bit. I am however not well informed on the topic.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-425-5435
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Derek Mullin on Thu Oct 25 15:17:51 2018
    On 25 Oct 18 10:21:36, Derek Mullin said the following to Bj*Rn Felten:

    aren't a real problem, the inefficiency of it stings a bit. I am however n well informed on the topic.

    Welcome back,

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Sat Oct 27 19:57:30 2018

    On 2018 Oct 23 16:32:14, you wrote to me:

    Then I'll say that the FidoWeb is 20 times more effective in catching
    dupes than your precious NAB thingy.

    this has absolutely nothing to do with the NAB...

    Of course it has everything to do with that NAB thingy of yours.

    it has nothing to do with the NAB, period... i'm speaking only of my system and
    what is being sent to it... there are more systems connecting here than just the other two NAB stars... i do not presume to say anything about other systems' dupe detections... maybe those folks do not run a stats count like my system did? maybe they don't look at their stats if/when their system produces such?

    With 20 times more dups, than what the sysops using the FidoWeb get,

    again, you are missing the problem with bubbles...

    you obviously have made some severely bad decisions trying to mimic
    the FidoWeb.

    no one is trying to mimic the fidoweb...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... A kind deed often does more than a large gift.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sat Oct 27 19:40:44 2018

    On 2018 Oct 23 18:09:18, you wrote to Kees van Eeten:

    area. And I don't get dupes for other messages at all. The webbing
    and SEEN+BY checking of some areas seems to be perfect. And that
    defeats how the fidoweb should work...

    Apparently most of your links are built of triagles. Triagles do not
    generate dupes, and therfore defeat your redundant connections.
    Apparently marc is connected by plenty of polygons, to his dismay.

    So I need more links that are atleast 2 hops away, to create more
    polygons.
    Maybe I should link with marc? ;)

    that's marK, not marC... you are welcome to link here if you desire... just grab, complete and submit my service.app ASCII text file to my 1:3634/12 address...

    ftp://southeaststar.wpusa.dynip.com/main/NEWUPLDS/service.app

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Mechanical engineers build weapons. Civil engineers build targets.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Sat Oct 27 19:44:08 2018

    On 2018 Oct 23 20:39:38, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    Maybe I should link with marc? ;)

    That would be an interesting exercise for sure. But mark unfortunately
    is a rabid anti-FW fundie, so no can do.

    you don't know of what you speak...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I'm all out of fucks to give but here's a rat's ass.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Henri Derksen on Sat Oct 27 19:45:52 2018

    On 2018 Oct 23 14:38:00, you wrote to Björn Felten:

    Then I'll say that the FidoWeb is 20 times more effective in catching
    dupes than your precious NAB thingy.

    Donot call the NAB a thingy if you donot want the FidoWeb be called a thingy. By doing what you do, you keep the useless war burning.

    thank you, henri...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... May you live all the days of your life.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to mark lewis on Sun Oct 28 06:02:40 2018
    With 20 times more dups, than what the sysops using the FidoWeb get,

    again, you are missing the problem with bubbles...

    I'm surprised that you, with your decades long experience, don't see the problem. You are claiming 20 times more dups than we get via the FW for Pete's sake!

    you obviously have made some severely bad decisions trying to mimic
    the FidoWeb.

    no one is trying to mimic the fidoweb...

    Well, maybe there's your problem then? If you have 27 nodes with one single connection point at your system maybe you can count on four-five or so more dups than any node only connected via the FW. But 20 times???? Can you really not see the discrepancy here?



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Björn Felten on Sun Oct 28 16:26:10 2018

    On 2018 Oct 28 02:02:40, you wrote to me:

    With 20 times more dups, than what the sysops using the FidoWeb get,

    again, you are missing the problem with bubbles...

    I'm surprised that you, with your decades long experience, don't see
    the
    problem.

    of course i see the problem!

    You are claiming 20 times more dups than we get via the FW for Pete's sake!

    then apparently there are sufficiently connected bubbles over there...

    you obviously have made some severely bad decisions trying to mimic
    the FidoWeb.

    no one is trying to mimic the fidoweb...

    Well, maybe there's your problem then? If you have 27 nodes with one single connection point at your system maybe you can count on
    four-five or so more dups than any node only connected via the FW. But
    20 times???? Can you really not see the discrepancy here?

    of course i see it! what the fuck do you think i'm talking about?!!?

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... 33. It's never too late for an apology.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Ward Dossche on Sun Nov 4 16:02:21 2018
    Re: Re: That NAB thingy
    By: Ward Dossche to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Oct 23 2018 05:12 pm

    So far I have 19 today, yesterday I had 88, Sunday 47...

    My number-crunching quad-core is in deep shit ...

    LOL! I have a QUAD core too. It's my game league (Battlenet BRE and FE league plugs!). Takes a lot of power at the LC level to keep them stable. I can transit as many as 4,000 packets a day by game blow out end before league reset.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)