• Bye Bye Huawei?

    From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to All on Mon May 20 16:39:12 2019
    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling parts for their phones and computers...

    ... bad day for Huawei, no less.

    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From Tiny@21:1/130.4 to Joacim Melin on Mon May 20 17:03:42 2019
    Quoting Joacim Melin to All <=-

    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling
    parts for their phones and computers...

    ... bad day for Huawei, no less.

    Don't worry, PM Trustfund of Canada will illegally sell them parts
    because he admires the Chinese Dictatorship so much. (His insane
    stupid words - The american's think they have it bad with the TV star,
    we have a rich failed drama teacher who doesn't know the difference
    between Japan and China.

    Shawn

    ... Bad news travels fast. Good news takes the scenic route!
    --- Blue Wave/386
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (21:1/130.4)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Joacim Melin on Mon May 20 15:21:35 2019
    Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Joacim Melin to All on Mon May 20 2019 12:39 pm

    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling parts for their phones and computers...

    ... bad day for Huawei, no less.

    I heard about that. Supposedly it's related to Donald Trump's tarrif policies on China.. It seems it's affecting businesses both in China and the US. I've heard of at least several companies in the US that have announced ceasing some operations or laying off employees due to the higher costs of import/export between the US and China. And I've heard some companies will probably start charging more money for products imported from China and products with components imported from China.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Netsurge@21:4/154 to Joacim Melin on Mon May 20 18:36:04 2019
    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling parts for their phones and computers...

    This will only escalate the trade war between Chine and the US.

    frank!netsurge!demonic
    disksh0p!bbs ! bbs.diskshop.ca ! mystic goodness

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  • From ernie@21:4/157 to Nightfox on Mon May 20 18:47:18 2019
    I heard about that. Supposedly it's related to Donald Trump's tarrif policies on China.. It seems it's affecting businesses both in China
    and the US. I've heard of at least several companies in the US that
    have announced ceasing some operations or laying off employees due to
    the higher costs of import/export between the US and China. And I've heard some companies will probably start charging more money for
    products imported from China and products with components imported from China.

    So much 'winning'...

    ---
    Ernest J Gainey III - LostCause Halfway House BBS
    telnet://bbs.lostcause.house
    http://bbs.lostcause.house

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  • From Al@21:4/106 to Joacim Melin on Mon May 20 16:50:34 2019
    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling parts for their phones and computers...

    ... bad day for Huawei, no less.

    They are under scrutiny in Canada as well. I don't think they are going to be allowed on the upcoming 5G networks here although it's not been announced yet.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From andrei@21:1/999 to Al on Tue May 21 03:05:40 2019
    to bad... they make very good phones that are much better than Samsung's. Huawei is a very used brand here in Romania....I hope this whole problem will go away soon as Trump's decisions are affecting everyone....

    Andrei
    SysOP - apernevan.tk
    Web - apernevan.tk

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  • From Al@21:4/106 to andrei on Mon May 20 18:22:24 2019
    to bad... they make very good phones that are much better than Samsung's. Huawei is a very used brand here in Romania....I hope this whole problem will go away soon as Trump's decisions are affecting everyone....

    This issue that Canada has is related to spyware built into Huawei products at least as far as 5G is concerned.

    I am not an expert in this area and don't know what it all means. Canada will never block any company as long as these spyware issues are addressed. Huawei may very well address those issues and that will clear the way for them.

    I have never used a Huawei product, so I have no bias toward them and if it's a
    good product I hope I will be able to look them over at some point.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Joacim Melin on Mon May 20 18:34:09 2019
    Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Joacim Melin to All on Mon May 20 2019 12:39 pm

    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling parts for their phones and computers...

    ... bad day for Huawei, no less.

    One thing I realized is that even though a lot of high-tech parts companies are American companies, a lot of their parts are manufactured in China. So as far as the tarriffs and trade war are concerned, I'm wondering how that works.. I suppose since they are American companies, they have to follow American laws and not supply parts to Chinese companies, even though their parts are probably manufactured in China.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to andrei on Mon May 20 18:39:07 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: andrei to Al on Mon May 20 2019 11:05 pm

    to bad... they make very good phones that are much better than Samsung's. Huawei is a very used brand here in Romania....I hope this whole problem will go away soon as Trump's decisions are affecting everyone....

    I don't think I've ever seen a Huawei phone in the US. I'm not sure if it's because they just aren't sold here or I just haven't noticed. I thought Huawei was mainly in the Chinese market, but perhaps not.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Netsurge@21:4/154 to Nightfox on Mon May 20 22:02:35 2019
    I don't think I've ever seen a Huawei phone in the US. I'm not sure if it's because they just aren't sold here or I just haven't noticed. I thought Huawei was mainly in the Chinese market, but perhaps not.

    They are pretty massive outside the US. Here in Canada every major carrier carries their devices. It's too bad that they are under this suspicion
    because they make great devices.

    Don't get me wrong, I think they are guilty of spying.

    frank!netsurge!demonic
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  • From Al@21:4/106 to Netsurge on Mon May 20 19:37:10 2019
    They are pretty massive outside the US. Here in Canada every major carrier carries their devices. It's too bad that they are under this suspicion because they make great devices.

    Don't get me wrong, I think they are guilty of spying.

    I don't know the company or what they are trying to do.

    I think the Chinese government "requested" these features.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Netsurge@21:4/154 to Al on Mon May 20 22:55:42 2019
    I don't know the company or what they are trying to do.

    The owner of the company is a former high ranking Chinese military official
    who was responsible for their intelligence, not suspicious at all.

    Here in Canada, we have been in a spat with the Chinese over Huawei. We have the owner's daughter under house arrest facing extradition to the US. She is facing charges or dealing with a foreign government who was on a US list of governments not to deal with.

    It has become a whole saga.

    frank!netsurge!demonic
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  • From Al@21:4/106 to Netsurge on Mon May 20 20:39:40 2019
    I don't know the company or what they are trying to do.

    The owner of the company is a former high ranking Chinese military official who was responsible for their intelligence, not suspicious at all.

    Here in Canada, we have been in a spat with the Chinese over Huawei. We have the owner's daughter under house arrest facing extradition to the US.

    Yep, those two events are not connected. There was a warrant for her arrest, so
    she was arrested and will likely be extradited to the US to face those charges.

    She is facing charges or dealing with a foreign government who was on a US list of governments not to deal with.

    After she was arrested the Chinese government arrested two Canadian citizens on
    dubious grounds. I don't think those Canadian citizens enjoy the same freedoms
    that the owners daughter does under house arrest.

    It has become a whole saga.

    Not to mention the trade war that has erupted (after her arrest).

    Anyone want to buy some Canola?

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Netsurge on Mon May 20 21:15:02 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Netsurge to Nightfox on Mon May 20 2019 06:02 pm

    I don't think I've ever seen a Huawei phone in the US. I'm not sure

    They are pretty massive outside the US. Here in Canada every major carrier carries their devices. It's too bad that they are under this suspicion because they make great devices.

    Don't get me wrong, I think they are guilty of spying.

    I don't really know enough to know if they're guilty of spying or not, but it all seems like only suspicion for now. It seems the US government has decided to take action against them without any hard evidence that they're spying. But there may be something others know that I don't.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Nightfox on Tue May 21 16:24:00 2019
    On 20 May 2019 at 05:15p, Nightfox pondered and said...

    I don't really know enough to know if they're guilty of spying or not,
    but it all seems like only suspicion for now. It seems the US
    government has decided to take action against them without any hard evidence that they're spying. But there may be something others know
    that I don't.

    In New Zealand our security services have also barred our telcos from using
    the Huawei gear for future 5G roll out.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Netsurge@21:4/154 to Nightfox on Tue May 21 00:53:08 2019
    I don't really know enough to know if they're guilty of spying or not,
    but it all seems like only suspicion for now. It seems the US
    government has decided to take action against them without any hard evidence that they're spying. But there may be something others know
    that I don't.

    There are more and more countries starting to block them from rolling out 5g technology. I have a feeling the intelligence community as a whole knows more than they let on.

    frank!netsurge!demonic
    disksh0p!bbs ! bbs.diskshop.ca ! mystic goodness

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  • From esc@21:1/112 to Netsurge on Tue May 21 03:14:03 2019
    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling pa for their phones and computers...

    This will only escalate the trade war between Chine and the US.

    Which makes absolutely no sense if you're interested in outcomes. Trump is someone that thinks of everything as a "deal", and in every deal there are winners and losers. It's the short game. He fails to understand diplomacy or 2nd/3rd order effects. I see no way to be optimistic about any of the trade
    war outcomes. I just don't get it.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Black Flag <ACiD Telnet HQ> blackflagbbs.com (21:1/112)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Tiny on Mon May 20 23:06:40 2019
    Don't worry, PM Trustfund of Canada will illegally sell them parts
    because he admires the Chinese Dictatorship so much. (His insane
    stupid words - The american's think they have it bad with the TV
    star,
    we have a rich failed drama teacher who doesn't know the difference
    between Japan and China.

    I don't think the US has it so bad compared to what you have said above. :)



    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From esc@21:1/112 to Nightfox on Tue May 21 03:23:39 2019
    I don't really know enough to know if they're guilty of spying or not,
    but it all seems like only suspicion for now. It seems the US
    government has decided to take action against them without any hard evidence that they're spying. But there may be something others know
    that I don't.

    They're guilty. They've been caught injecting spy capabilities into silicon chips for decades. They compromised all American security clearance holders (and applicants).

    To be fair, we do our own spying (check out the EP3 wikipedia page if you're interested).

    Divulging hard evidence sadly would be divulging our detection
    capabilities...I acknowledge this is a tough pill to swallow, but if you're really interested in this kind of stuff (and you're an American), get a job
    in intelligence or defense and get cleared :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Black Flag <ACiD Telnet HQ> blackflagbbs.com (21:1/112)
  • From Netsurge@21:4/154 to esc on Tue May 21 03:43:07 2019
    Which makes absolutely no sense if you're interested in outcomes. Trump
    is someone that thinks of everything as a "deal", and in every deal
    there are winners and losers. It's the short game. He fails to
    understand diplomacy or 2nd/3rd order effects. I see no way to be optimistic about any of the trade war outcomes. I just don't get it.

    It's one "deal" he isn't going to be able to strike.

    frank!netsurge!demonic
    disksh0p!bbs ! bbs.diskshop.ca ! mystic goodness

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
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  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to ernie on Tue May 21 11:03:54 2019
    I heard about that. Supposedly it's related to Donald Trump's tarrif
    policies on China.. It seems it's affecting businesses both in China
    and the US. I've heard of at least several companies in the US that
    have announced ceasing some operations or laying off employees due to
    the higher costs of import/export between the US and China. And I've
    heard some companies will probably start charging more money for
    products imported from China and products with components imported from
    China.

    So much 'winning'...

    It is hard for a mere mortal such as myself to even try to imagine how to deal with all the winning Trump does these days. :D


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Nightfox on Tue May 21 11:07:41 2019
    Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Joacim Melin to All on Mon May 20 2019 12:39 pm

    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling parts
    for their phones and computers...

    ... bad day for Huawei, no less.

    One thing I realized is that even though a lot of high-tech parts
    companies are
    American companies, a lot of their parts are manufactured in China.
    So as far
    as the tarriffs and trade war are concerned, I'm wondering how that
    works.. I
    suppose since they are American companies, they have to follow
    American laws
    and not supply parts to Chinese companies, even though their parts are probably
    manufactured in China.

    It is surely going to hit Apple hard. They manufacture/assemble about 98% of their physical products in China.

    Not that Trump gives a shit - he needs a new enemy to blame things on after Hillary, FBI, CIA, the media, etc.

    And to be clear: if you voted for Trump, you voted for something you belived in
    and maybe still believe in and I have no issues with that but this "America first" doctorine is hurting the rest of the world and anyone who supports Trump
    has to understand that this will come back and bite the US in the ass one day.
    It's one thing to pick a fight with a couple of countries but when you are slowly but surely turning more or less the entire world against you it will take a lot of time before things can be repaired and being back to normal again.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Nightfox on Tue May 21 21:36:50 2019
    policies on China.. It seems it's affecting businesses both in China
    and the US. I've heard of at least several companies in the US that

    Also here in Taiwan. It's going to start disrupting supply chains. TSMC supplies 7nm chips to HiSilicon, and has already lost roughly $20 billion of market cap. Other companies supply a variety of semiconductors, PCBs and
    other parts to Huawei and its subsidiaries as well.

    I have a student who is a salesman for a Taiwan textile producer, which provides textiles to companies which produce products for, e.g., Nike.
    Tariffs have severely restricted exports from Chinese factories, so he's been forced to explore new markets in SE Asia and elsewhere.

    Of course, part of Trump's strategy seems to be to encourage manufacturers
    to relocate factories outside of China, and it seems to be having some
    effect. I'm aware of at least three local factories that closed fifteen
    or more years ago, but are being de-mothballed.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Al on Tue May 21 21:41:45 2019
    Anyone want to buy some Canola?

    Is it made in China?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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  • From ernie@21:4/157 to Joacim Melin on Tue May 21 12:59:24 2019
    It is hard for a mere mortal such as myself to even try to imagine how
    to deal with all the winning Trump does these days. :D

    I know, right... well, that's OK... we can leave it up to those millionaires and billionaires to imagine it for us... and wait for it to just trickle down...

    ---
    Ernest J Gainey III - LostCause Halfway House BBS
    telnet://bbs.lostcause.house
    http://bbs.lostcause.house

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: LostCause Halfway House (21:4/157)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Joacim Melin on Tue May 21 13:12:47 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Joacim Melin to Nightfox on Tue May 21 2019 07:07 am

    It is surely going to hit Apple hard. They manufacture/assemble about 98% of their physical products in China.

    Yep, and there are a lot of other electronics companies that manufacture their products in China as well.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to nathanael on Tue May 21 15:42:36 2019
    Anyone want to buy some Canola?

    Is it made in China?

    No, it's grown in Canada. In response to either the problems the Canadian goverment has with Huawei's G5 technology or the arrest of the owners daughter (because she's wanted in the US) the Chinese goverment has blocked imports of canola from Canada and a number of other products.

    Probably small beans when looking at the big picture but certainly a problem for a number of canola farmers here.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Netsurge on Tue May 21 17:11:28 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Netsurge to Nightfox on Mon May 20 2019 08:53 pm

    There are more and more countries starting to block them from rolling out 5g technology. I have a feeling the intelligence community as a whole knows more than they let on.

    It's their way, or the Huawei..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Nightfox on Tue May 21 18:55:09 2019
    Nightfox wrote to Joacim Melin <=-

    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling parts for their phones and computers...

    ... bad day for Huawei, no less.

    I heard about that. Supposedly it's related to Donald Trump's tarrif policies on China.. It seems it's affecting businesses both in China

    No the Huawei deal is due more to cybersecurity and piracy risks. Just
    like google and FB and other companies spy on their users, it is believed
    that Huawei does, too, but on behalf of the Chinese government. Sort of
    how they use tech to spy on their own people, with the help of companies
    like Apple and Google.

    A few weeks back, I was reading an article about how some US company had
    been selling cloud computer tech to Amazon and others using Chinese made boards. Someone realized the boards had these extra chips on them, about
    the size of a grain of rice. The belief is that the chips were spyware.
    The companies that used the boards replaced them all.

    You can call that Trump paranoia if you want, but plenty of my Indian
    friends are leary to buy Chinese made tech for the same reason... well,
    that, and they think it is cheap crap.



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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Al on Tue May 21 18:56:32 2019
    Al wrote to andrei <=-

    to bad... they make very good phones that are much better than Samsung's. Huawei is a very used brand here in Romania....I hope this whole problem will go away soon as Trump's decisions are affecting everyone....

    This issue that Canada has is related to spyware built into Huawei products at least as far as 5G is concerned.

    Exactly. This issue has been exposed on websites that are not run in the
    US, too.



    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
    --- MultiMail
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Blue White on Tue May 21 17:42:29 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Blue White to Nightfox on Tue May 21 2019 02:55 pm

    I heard about that. Supposedly it's related to Donald Trump's
    tarrif policies on China.. It seems it's affecting businesses both
    in China

    No the Huawei deal is due more to cybersecurity and piracy risks. Just like google and FB and other companies spy on their users, it is believed that Huawei does, too, but on behalf of the Chinese government. Sort of how they use tech to spy on their own people, with the help of companies like Apple and Google.

    Yeah, I've been reading about it more, and that's what I've been hearing.

    A few weeks back, I was reading an article about how some US company had been selling cloud computer tech to Amazon and others using Chinese made boards. Someone realized the boards had these extra chips on them, about the size of a grain of rice. The belief is that the chips were spyware. The companies that used the boards replaced them all.

    I saw an article about that a while ago. Those were motherboards from Super Micro - I had heard about that brand, and I think they're fairly big in the server market.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Netsurge@21:4/154 to Al on Tue May 21 20:34:24 2019
    Probably small beans when looking at the big picture but certainly a problem for a number of canola farmers here.

    It's a shot across the bow. If they wanted to cripple us with trade restrictions they could.

    frank!netsurge!demonic
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  • From deon@21:2/116.1 to Nightfox on Wed May 22 03:20:51 2019
    On 21 May 2019, Nightfox said the following...
    It's their way, or the Huawei..

    Bahaha... :)

    ...deon

    _--_|\ | Deon George
    / \ | Chinwag BBS - A BBS on a PI in Docker!
    \_.__.*/ |
    V | Coming from the 'burbs of Melbourne, Australia

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    * Origin: Chinwag | MysticBBS in Docker on a Pi! (21:2/116.1)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to Nightfox on Tue May 21 23:00:41 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Nightfox to andrei on Mon May 20 2019 02:39 pm

    I don't think I've ever seen a Huawei phone in the US. I'm not sure if it's
    because they just aren't sold here or I just
    haven't noticed. I thought Huawei was mainly in the Chinese market, but
    perhaps not.

    Not sure if anyone responded to you on this yet or not, but Google's Nexus 6P is/was Huawei.
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Va7aqd on Tue May 21 23:26:26 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Va7aqd to Nightfox on Tue May 21 2019 07:00 pm

    because they just aren't sold here or I just
    haven't noticed. I thought Huawei was mainly in the Chinese market,
    but
    perhaps not.

    Not sure if anyone responded to you on this yet or not, but Google's Nexus 6P is/was Huawei.

    Ah.. I didn't know Huawei was making devices that were branded with other companies' brands/models.

    I don't really see many Google Nexus devices either, but I know they're available in the US.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Wed May 22 09:51:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to Joacim Melin <=-

    I heard about that. Supposedly it's related to Donald Trump's tarrif policies on China.. It seems it's affecting businesses both in China
    and the US. I've heard of at least several companies in the US that
    have announced ceasing some operations or laying off employees due to
    the higher costs of import/export between the US and China. And I've heard some companies will probably start charging more money for
    products imported from China and products with components imported from China.

    China is a faster growing market in some ways. You're going to see
    companies building in China to sell to their market instead of risking
    exposure to tarriffs. China has cheap labor *and* the market, why
    would American auto brands build in the US any more?



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Netsurge on Wed May 22 09:52:00 2019
    Netsurge wrote to Joacim Melin <=-

    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling parts for their phones and computers...

    This will only escalate the trade war between Chine and the US.

    Expect China to mess with Apple in retaliation in 3... 2.. 1...



    ... Do you ever see inconsistencies in your world?
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  • From Netsurge@21:4/154 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 22 15:12:41 2019
    This will only escalate the trade war between Chine and the US.

    Expect China to mess with Apple in retaliation in 3... 2.. 1...

    That will only be the tip of the iceberg

    frank!netsurge!demonic
    disksh0p!bbs ! bbs.diskshop.ca ! mystic goodness

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 22 13:37:10 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed May 22 2019 05:51 am

    China is a faster growing market in some ways. You're going to see companies building in China to sell to their market instead of risking exposure to tarriffs. China has cheap labor *and* the market, why
    would American auto brands build in the US any more?

    I've heard (at least some) American auto brands already don't build their cars in the US. If you buy a Ford, Chevrolet, GM, etc., it seems likely the car might have been built in Mexico or elsewhere. Meanwhile, non-US car brands such as Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, and BMW have car manufacturing plants in the US. I'm not sure if there are other non-US car brands that might also have manufacturing plants in the US..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 22 17:24:30 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Netsurge on Wed May 22 2019 05:52 am

    This will only escalate the trade war between Chine and the US.

    Expect China to mess with Apple in retaliation in 3... 2.. 1...

    Huawei has been accused of spying with their devices. Has Apple also been accused of spying? If not, it wouldn't really seem like a good retaliation for them to go after Apple. Also, at least for smartphones & tablets, I think there are a lot more Android devices in the world than Apple iPhones & iPads. If they wanted to retaliate, it might make more sense for them to go after Google. Or perhaps Microsoft (for their number of Windows installations around the world).

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Al on Wed May 22 23:06:30 2019
    Al wrote to nathanael <=-

    Probably small beans when looking at the big picture but certainly a problem for a number of canola farmers here.

    If we can deep fry stuff in it, I am sure we'd be interested in it here in
    the States... that is, if we are allowed to import it from you. :O :D



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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 22 23:09:39 2019
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nightfox <=-

    China is a faster growing market in some ways. You're going to see companies building in China to sell to their market instead of risking exposure to tarriffs. China has cheap labor *and* the market, why
    would American auto brands build in the US any more?

    For China, I already think they do not. China is the only reason that GM
    kept Buick going when they got rid of Pontiac and Saturn... the Chinese
    love Buicks. Knock-down kits are sold to, or sent to, a Chinese company
    that assembles the cars and sells them in their home market.

    I am not sure about Ford or Fiat, but GM has several co-ventures in that
    part of the world, whether it be assembling kits or building the whole
    vehicles there.


    ... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
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  • From Al@21:4/106 to Blue White on Thu May 23 05:53:14 2019
    Blue White wrote to Al <=-

    Probably small beans when looking at the big picture but certainly a problem for a number of canola farmers here.

    If we can deep fry stuff in it, I am sure we'd be interested in it here
    in the States... that is, if we are allowed to import it from you. :O
    :D

    I don't know what canola is. I have a foggy idea that at the end of the day it'll get you something along the lines of corn oil, but I might be mistaken. ;)

    I think trade between the US and Canada is mostly back to free trade as usual. There were some spats in the steel/aluminium area but trade is tariff free now,
    as far as I know.

    So, if you want/need canola.. we have it.. :)

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... To err is human, to really screw up it takes a computer!

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  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Netsurge on Fri May 24 00:47:36 2019
    This will only escalate the trade war between Chine and the US.

    Expect China to mess with Apple in retaliation in 3... 2.. 1...

    That will only be the tip of the iceberg

    Word has it gonverment controlled media (no, not Fox! :) ) in China have started to say it's embarrassing to use an iPhone.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Wed May 22 22:28:00 2019
    On 05-20-19 12:50, Al wrote to Joacim Melin <=-

    Google kicks them out of Android, Qualcomm and others stop selling parts for their phones and computers...

    ... bad day for Huawei, no less.

    They are under scrutiny in Canada as well. I don't think they are going
    to be allowed on the upcoming 5G networks here although it's not been announced yet.

    They were also blocked from installing 5G in Australia.


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to andrei on Wed May 22 22:29:00 2019
    On 05-20-19 23:05, andrei wrote to Al <=-

    to bad... they make very good phones that are much better than
    Samsung's. Huawei is a very used brand here in Romania....I hope this whole problem will go away soon as Trump's decisions are affecting everyone....

    Their 3G/4G Intenet donglesseem to work pretty well too.


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Nightfox on Wed May 22 22:34:00 2019
    On 05-20-19 14:39, Nightfox wrote to andrei <=-

    I don't think I've ever seen a Huawei phone in the US. I'm not sure if it's because they just aren't sold here or I just haven't noticed. I thought Huawei was mainly in the Chinese market, but perhaps not.

    I'm not sure about phones, but their hardware is commonly sold in Australia for mobile Internet. And it does work pretty well. I've got a couple of Huawei 3G dongles here. They have largely been superceded by my 4G hotspot (not sure what brand that is), but I could put the 3G SIM from the iPad back into one of the Huawei dongles if I wanted to.


    ... Useless Invention: Ejector seats for helicopters.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Wed May 22 22:37:00 2019
    On 05-20-19 15:37, Al wrote to Netsurge <=-

    I think the Chinese government "requested" these features.

    And that is the crux of the argument that governments are using to ban them from rolling out 5G infrastructure in those countries. Do they have Chinese government mandated backdoors bult into their equipment? Honestly, I don't know, but the possibility is not outlandish, because China is _very_ interested in spying on other countries.


    ... An aphrodisiac and a floor wax?
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Wed May 22 22:39:00 2019
    On 05-21-19 12:24, Avon wrote to Nightfox <=-

    In New Zealand our security services have also barred our telcos from using the Huawei gear for future 5G roll out.

    Australia was one of the early ones to block Huawei from installing 5G.


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to esc on Wed May 22 22:39:00 2019
    On 05-20-19 23:14, esc wrote to Netsurge <=-

    Which makes absolutely no sense if you're interested in outcomes. Trump
    is someone that thinks of everything as a "deal", and in every deal
    there are winners and losers. It's the short game. He fails to
    understand diplomacy or 2nd/3rd order effects. I see no way to be optimistic about any of the trade war outcomes. I just don't get it.

    Usually, everyone loses in a trade war. :(


    ... A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of.
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  • From Spectre@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Fri May 24 16:43:20 2019
    You know we only have pretend 5g eh.... its really just 4g on steroids..

    Spec

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Joacim Melin on Fri May 24 14:55:25 2019
    This will only escalate the trade war between Chine and the

    Expect China to mess with Apple in retaliation in 3... 2.. 1...

    That will only be the tip of the iceberg

    Word has it gonverment controlled media (no, not Fox! :) ) in China
    have started to say it's embarrassing to use an iPhone.

    Haha, well it is!

    Just kidding.. sort of :)

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.magickabbs.com:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Fri May 24 17:25:12 2019
    On 22 May 2019 at 06:39p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    In New Zealand our security services have also barred our telcos from using the Huawei gear for future 5G roll out.

    Australia was one of the early ones to block Huawei from installing 5G.

    Further reading I did in a well written Reuters article revealed to me that
    it was Australia that was first sounding the alarm to the USA and then a
    number of other subsequent countries.

    I think where there is any doubt about the possibility of harm, and when the risk are high if a bad actor decided to conduct cyber warfare, then it's
    better to err on the side of caution.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Nightfox on Thu May 23 23:29:37 2019
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Meanwhile, non-US car brands such as Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, and BMW have car manufacturing plants in the US. I'm not sure if there are
    other non-US car brands that might also have manufacturing plants in
    the US..

    IIRC, KIA has at least one.


    ... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
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  • From Netsurge@21:4/154.1 to Joacim Melin on Fri May 24 04:24:16 2019

    On Thursday May 23, 2019, Joacim Melin said to Netsurge...

    Word has it gonverment controlled media (no, not Fox! :) ) in China
    have started to say it's embarrassing to use an iPhone.

    Not surprising. The fact is that China is a huge market for the west, if
    their market starts to claw back on bringing in good from the US, the US's economy will suffer greatly.

    frank!netsurge ! hysteriabbs.com ! zeus 1.7 ! amiga 4ooo
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  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Nightfox on Fri May 24 08:59:26 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Netsurge on Wed May 22 2019 05:52 am

    This will only escalate the trade war between Chine and the US.

    Expect China to mess with Apple in retaliation in 3... 2.. 1...

    Huawei has been accused of spying with their devices. Has Apple also
    been
    accused of spying? If not, it wouldn't really seem like a good
    retaliation for
    them to go after Apple. Also, at least for smartphones & tablets, I
    think
    there are a lot more Android devices in the world than Apple iPhones & iPads.
    If they wanted to retaliate, it might make more sense for them to go
    after
    Google. Or perhaps Microsoft (for their number of Windows
    installations around
    the world).

    They don't go after Apple - they go after one of the most profitable businesses
    in the US even though it will hurt China too but I guess China can afford it, but the question is if the US can?


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From andrei@21:1/124 to Vk3jed on Fri May 24 13:14:19 2019
    Yes, I've been using their dongles since 3G was introduced in Romania and I still am.
    They are much better than ZTE for example.

    Andrei
    apernevan.tk BBS, Arad RO
    Web - https://apernevan.tk
    Telnet - telnet://apernevan.tk

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    * Origin: apernevan.tk BBS | Arad, Romania (21:1/124)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Joacim Melin on Fri May 24 13:06:07 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Joacim Melin to Nightfox on Fri May 24 2019 04:59 am

    They don't go after Apple - they go after one of the most profitable businesses
    in the US even though it will hurt China too but I guess China can afford it, but the question is if the US can?

    Isn't Apple one of the most profitable businesses in the US? Not sure what you mean here. Recently I had heard Apple was the most valuable company around, or one of the most valuable..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Spectre on Sat May 25 16:20:00 2019
    On 05-24-19 12:43, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    You know we only have pretend 5g eh.... its really just 4g on
    steroids..

    Well, apparently 5g is launching next week in Oz, at least in the big smoke.


    ... Science is nothing but trained and organized common sense.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Sat May 25 16:22:00 2019
    On 05-24-19 13:25, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Further reading I did in a well written Reuters article revealed to me that it was Australia that was first sounding the alarm to the USA and then a number of other subsequent countries.

    Yes, it was on the news here ages ago.

    I think where there is any doubt about the possibility of harm, and
    when the risk are high if a bad actor decided to conduct cyber warfare, then it's better to err on the side of caution.

    True, but then a detailed investigation needs to be conducted.


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to andrei on Sat May 25 16:24:00 2019
    On 05-24-19 09:14, andrei wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yes, I've been using their dongles since 3G was introduced in Romania
    and I still am.
    They are much better than ZTE for example.

    I don't recall having any experience with ZTE hardware, but certainly no complaints with Huawei dongles.


    ... What does a 5000 pound mouse say? "Here, kitty, kitty!"
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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Sun May 26 15:35:49 2019
    On 25 May 2019 at 12:22p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    I think where there is any doubt about the possibility of harm, and when the risk are high if a bad actor decided to conduct cyber warfar then it's better to err on the side of caution.

    True, but then a detailed investigation needs to be conducted.

    From some reading I have done the fear appears to be firmware updates pushed
    to 5G devices from the vendor that could introduce exploits should a wartime footing be adopted.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Mon May 27 02:02:00 2019
    On 05-26-19 11:35, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    From some reading I have done the fear appears to be firmware updates pushed to 5G devices from the vendor that could introduce exploits
    should a wartime footing be adopted.

    Certainly plausible.


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  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Blue White on Mon May 27 12:15:21 2019
    Supposedly it's related to Donald Trump's tarrif policies on China

    No the Huawei deal is due more to cybersecurity and piracy risks.

    More both/and, I think.

    it is believed that Huawei does, too, but on behalf of the Chinese government.

    You make it sound entirely too benevolent on Huawei's part, as if they had
    been given a choice. Beijing subsidizes Huawei, as it does many Chinese companies, in order to give it unfair competitive advantages in markets
    around the world, but those subsidies don't come string-free.

    Someone realized the boards had these extra chips on them, about
    the size of a grain of rice.

    You're probably referring to the Bloomberg article from Sept. or Oct. Amazon denied the details, as did every other company mentioned in the Bloomberg article, and the specific accusations died shortly thereafter.

    Probably the bigger problem for Huawei is that it is a Chinese company, which automatically tars it with Beijing's (deserved) reputation for spying and
    other nefarious acts. So regardless of whether Huawei is actually guilty, it's not going to be able to get past the suspicions.

    It also gave Trump a golden opportunity to hit China hard. Huawei is a jewel
    in China's technology crown, and its 5G technology is the most advanced in
    the world. But in the aftermath of the US ban, and companies and countries worldwide abandoning Huawei (all the major telecoms here in Taiwan are
    dropping new Huawei cellphones, and the government has banned Huawei from government contracts), Huawei's gotta be hurting.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 27 12:30:47 2019
    China is a faster growing market in some ways. You're going to see companies building in China to sell to their market instead of risking exposure to tarriffs. China has cheap labor *and* the market, why
    would American auto brands build in the US any more?

    It's not either/or. Factories have been closing in China for several years, even before the trade war started. Many of them are relocating to SE Asia
    where labor prices now undercut the Chinese market; the US-China trade war
    will probably accelerate that, which is undoubtedly part of Trump's strategy. In the past couple of weeks I've heard of three Taiwanese companies who are moving their factories back to Taiwan. Rumour has it even TSMC is going to reopen one of its old factories in Taichung.

    The problems for foreign companies trying to sell in China is even aside from the tariffs issue, the Chinese market is not a level playing field. And tech firms are commonly required to provide the Chinese government access to the technology they're producing.

    I just saw a report yesterday which suggests the value of the intellectual property stolen by China every year exceeds the value of all products China exports to the US.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Netsurge on Mon May 27 12:36:07 2019
    That will only be the tip of the iceberg

    There's an old addage in business: never pick a fight with your best
    customer. The US is China's largest customer by far. The reverse is not close to being true.

    If Trump sticks to his guns, I really don't see this as a war China can win. The US has far more ways it can hurt China than China has of hitting back.
    Yes, the US economy won't come out of it unscathed, but I think the damage to the Chinese economy will be far worse. Analysts have already cut
    forecasts Chinese growth this year by more than a point.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Nightfox on Mon May 27 12:45:15 2019
    it might make
    more sense for them to go after Google. Or perhaps Microsoft (for their

    How would they go after Google? Google has never been a major player in the Chinese market. And Microsoft has for several years been moving the company's focus toward cloud computing and Bing. In 2016, Windows revenue dropped to third place, behind Azure and cloud services.

    Microsoft's never profited much from the Chinese market, anyway, given as how nearly everything there is pirated, anyway.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Netsurge on Mon May 27 13:05:24 2019
    The fact is that China is a huge market for the west

    The US is by far China's largest export market. In 2018 Chinese exports to the US totaled $540 billion, or about 4.4% of China's GDP. US exports to China
    were about $120 billion, or about 0.6% of U.S. GDP.

    China needs the US more than the US needs China, and that large trade surplus also makes China more vulnerable.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Joacim Melin on Mon May 27 13:16:15 2019
    even though it will hurt China too but I guess China can afford it, but the question is if the US can?

    The US export market is far more diversified, nor is China the US' largest trading partner (it's 4th, behind the EU, Canada and Mexico). US exports to China were about 120 billion, 8.4% of total US exports/0.6% of US GDP, last year.

    Conversely, the US is by far China's largest export market. China exported
    $540 billion to the US, 14.1% of all Chinese exports / 4.4% of Chinese GDP.

    I think the US can better afford the trade war than China can.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Mon May 27 17:26:51 2019
    On 26 May 2019 at 10:02p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    should a wartime footing be adopted.

    Certainly plausible.

    That's the kicker I guess, trying to second guess exploit pathways before
    they are exploited.. the joys.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Netsurge@21:4/154 to nathanael on Mon May 27 04:45:01 2019
    If Trump sticks to his guns, I really don't see this as a war China can win. The US has far more ways it can hurt China than China has of
    hitting back. Yes, the US economy won't come out of it unscathed, but I think the damage to the Chinese economy will be far worse. Analysts have already cut forecasts Chinese growth this year by more than a point.

    Are you kidding? Of the entire US debt over $6 trillions dollars is held by foreign owners. At the top of that list is China which the US owes $1.13 trillion dollars to. A trade war with China would impact the US greatly.

    China makes close to 50% of all products sold in the US. The US no longer has the manufacturing capacity to make these products from Steel to Air Conditioners and everything inbetween. If China decides to stop exporting to the US there would be a massive void that would take decades to fill locally, instead the US would have to go to other industrial countries who pay a
    living wage to their workers to buy products. Those products would cost US consumers a whole lot more than it would cost them if they were getting them from China.

    Global economics 101

    frank!netsurge!demonic
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  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to nathanael on Mon May 27 10:40:11 2019
    it might make
    more sense for them to go after Google. Or perhaps Microsoft (for their

    How would they go after Google? Google has never been a major player
    in the
    Chinese market. And Microsoft has for several years been moving the company's
    focus toward cloud computing and Bing. In 2016, Windows revenue
    dropped to
    third place, behind Azure and cloud services.

    Microsoft's never profited much from the Chinese market, anyway, given
    as how
    nearly everything there is pirated, anyway.

    Google makes Android -> Most if not all chinese made cellphones (except iPhone of course) runs Android -> China blocks access to the Play Store and all other Google services -> Foo.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Blue White on Sun May 26 14:15:00 2019
    Blue White wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I am not sure about Ford or Fiat, but GM has several co-ventures in
    that part of the world, whether it be assembling kits or building the whole vehicles there.

    Didn't trump tweet about Ford being able to sell one of their cars
    here because of his tariffs, and Ford responded that since it was made
    overseas and would be tariffed that they wouldn't sell it here?

    (googles in another window) it was the Ford Focus Active, an AWD
    crossover similar to the Subaru Crosstrek, which is selling like
    gangbusters. The Focus is made in China.

    Oops.



    ... Do you believe in fate, Lawrence?
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Mon May 27 21:04:00 2019
    On 05-27-19 13:26, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    On 26 May 2019 at 10:02p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    should a wartime footing be adopted.

    Certainly plausible.

    That's the kicker I guess, trying to second guess exploit pathways
    before they are exploited.. the joys.

    Yeah, if we could do that, there would be no such thing as zero day exploits.
    D


    ... In every revolution, there's one man with a vision. Kirk, stardate unknown === MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From esc@21:1/112 to Netsurge on Mon May 27 15:28:48 2019
    Are you kidding? Of the entire US debt over $6 trillions dollars is held by foreign owners. At the top of that list is China which the US owes $1.13 trillion dollars to. A trade war with China would impact the US greatly.

    I don't think this gives China any real leverage, nor is it any big risk.
    Think about it like this. You take out a loan for $10 grand to buy a car.
    That bank basically owns you for the debt. Now take out a loan for $10
    million to run a business. That bank will do anything in its power to help
    you succeed, because now you basically own the bank.

    China owning our debt means China wants us to be successful.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Black Flag <ACiD Telnet HQ> blackflagbbs.com (21:1/112)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 27 12:37:23 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Blue White on Sun May 26 2019 10:15 am

    Didn't trump tweet about Ford being able to sell one of their cars

    I really wish people would stop quoting Trump, period. Except maybe the people who are paid to fact check.

    How do you know Trump is lying? He said something somewhere.

    Everyone outside of the US should ignore him, except when the bozo is threatening war. Perhaps the US could get it's shit in order and get the guy out of office. That should be their mission every day - call your representatives and make it happen.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/?noredir ect=on&utm_term=.490d2b9e917c

    What a pile of nonsense, and it's pathetic each further day he's in office.
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Netsurge@21:4/154 to esc on Mon May 27 16:06:24 2019
    I don't think this gives China any real leverage, nor is it any big risk. Think about it like this. You take out a loan for $10 grand to buy a car. That bank basically owns you for the debt. Now take out a loan for $10 million to run a business. That bank will do anything in its power to
    help you succeed, because now you basically own the bank.

    Your correct, but if China imposes tariffs then the only people who loose is the US economy. Heading over to the EU to buy stuff will the same as China's tariffs or even more with certain products.

    frank!netsurge!demonic
    disksh0p!bbs ! bbs.diskshop.ca ! mystic goodness

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: !disksh0p!bbs! bbs.diskshop.ca ! mystic goodness ! (21:4/154)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Netsurge on Tue May 28 15:29:41 2019
    Are you kidding? Of the entire US debt over $6 trillions dollars is held by foreign owners. At the top of that list is China which the US owes

    According to figures I could find, as of March China currently holds about
    $1.2 trillion, or 5.5%, of the US debt. Japan is just behind at about $1.1 trillion.

    https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124

    China has had the yuan pegged to the US dollar at least since the '70s in
    order to keep the yuan relatively cheap. Flooding the bond market would destabilize the yuan, inflate the prices of Chinese exports worldwide,
    cause the value of the dollar to plummet, disrupt world markets likely even more than the '08 financial crisis, and risk sending the Chinese economy into
    a tailspin.

    It'd be, in effect, a nuclear option.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Joacim Melin on Tue May 28 15:36:59 2019
    iPhone of course) runs Android -> China blocks access to the Play Store and all other Google services -> Foo.

    You mean cut off *every* Android phone in China? I think that would gravely offend the sensitivities of the Chinese people :-)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to nathanael on Tue May 28 01:46:38 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: nathanael to Nightfox on Mon May 27 2019 08:45 am

    How would they go after Google? Google has never been a major player in the Chinese market.

    I don't know much about the Chinese market, but Google owns Android (OS), and I thought Android devices are sold around the world? From what I've heard, part of the US ban against Huawei is for Google to stop providing support for Huawei's Android-based phones.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to nathanael on Tue May 28 10:06:00 2019
    iPhone of course) runs Android -> China blocks access to the Play Store
    and all other Google services -> Foo.

    You mean cut off *every* Android phone in China? I think that would
    gravely
    offend the sensitivities of the Chinese people :-)

    Since when does the communist regime of China care about what the people thinks? :)


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Nightfox on Tue May 28 10:07:23 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: nathanael to Nightfox on Mon May 27 2019 08:45 am

    How would they go after Google? Google has never been a major player in
    the Chinese market.

    I don't know much about the Chinese market, but Google owns Android
    (OS), and I
    thought Android devices are sold around the world? From what I've
    heard, part
    of the US ban against Huawei is for Google to stop providing support
    for
    Huawei's Android-based phones.

    Nightfox

    They already have. The next Google version of Android (aka not the oppen source
    one with all the API's and ties to Google services) will not be available for Huawei. That means that Huawei have to use the open source version with very basic apps, no support for the Play store and no support for Google maps for navigation for example.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Tue May 28 23:18:16 2019
    On 27 May 2019 at 05:04p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    Yeah, if we could do that, there would be no such thing as zero day exploits. D

    I'm glad the same does not apply to things like beer, confectionery and bacon.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Joacim Melin on Tue May 28 12:35:29 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: Joacim Melin to Nightfox on Tue May 28 2019 06:07 am

    I don't know much about the Chinese market, but Google owns Android
    (OS), and I
    thought Android devices are sold around the world? From what I've
    heard, part
    of the US ban against Huawei is for Google to stop providing
    support for
    Huawei's Android-based phones.

    They already have.

    I know; that's what I was saying.

    The next Google version of Android (aka not the oppen
    source
    one with all the API's and ties to Google services) will not be available for Huawei. That means that Huawei have to use the open source version with very basic apps, no support for the Play store and no support for Google maps for navigation for example.

    Yep, I was reading about that in the news recently.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Spectre@21:1/101 to nathanael on Wed May 29 21:52:31 2019
    even more than the '08 financial crisis, and risk sending the Chinese economy into a tailspin.


    One day the chinese economy will fall over, its how these things work. Might be India's turn after them as the following power house economy of the world.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Nightfox on Wed May 29 18:44:35 2019
    I don't know much about the Chinese market, but Google owns Android
    (OS), and I thought Android devices are sold around the world? From

    Yes, but Google gives Android away for free. Now Google is tight-lipped about its revenue streams, but it seems likely that where Google makes money from Android is primarily in advertising and secondarily the Play store, where it takes a 30% cut. But what the Chinese market is worth to Google I have no
    idea. I suspect it's nowhere near enough to sink Google.

    On the other hand, it would cripple Chinese handset makers in the world
    market if they were no longer able to get Android or Google app updates. Look what it's already done to Huawei's phone division.

    I'm not convinced it wouldn't hurt China more than it would hurt Google.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Joacim Melin on Wed May 29 18:46:14 2019
    Since when does the communist regime of China care about what the people thinks? :)

    Given the frequency with they claim the Chinese people are offended, it would seem they care quite a bit.

    On the other hand, that concern doesn't seem to extend to granting them
    greater freedoms.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (jenandcal.familyds.org:2323) (21:4/123)
  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to nathanael on Wed May 29 12:46:51 2019
    Since when does the communist regime of China care about what the people
    thinks? :)

    Given the frequency with they claim the Chinese people are offended,
    it would
    seem they care quite a bit.

    On the other hand, that concern doesn't seem to extend to granting
    them
    greater freedoms.

    As long as the people are offended by the right things (aka anything that can be in service of the state for propaganda reasons) it's OK. Start to protest about greater freedom and freedom of speech, free elections, etc... it's bye-bye.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to nathanael on Wed May 29 13:43:31 2019
    Re: Re: Bye Bye Huawei?
    By: nathanael to Nightfox on Wed May 29 2019 02:44 pm

    On the other hand, it would cripple Chinese handset makers in the world market if they were no longer able to get Android or Google app updates. Look what it's already done to Huawei's phone division.

    I'm not convinced it wouldn't hurt China more than it would hurt Google.

    That's probably true. If China wanted to hurt Google, I suspect there may be other ways to do it. I'm not sure though.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Thu May 30 13:59:00 2019
    On 05-28-19 19:18, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    On 27 May 2019 at 05:04p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    Yeah, if we could do that, there would be no such thing as zero day exploits. D

    I'm glad the same does not apply to things like beer, confectionery and bacon.

    Haha I already have the patches to avoid abuse though those means. :D


    ... What bug? That's a feature
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Avon on Wed May 29 10:17:00 2019
    Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-


    Yeah, if we could do that, there would be no such thing as zero day exploits. D

    I'm glad the same does not apply to things like beer, confectionery and bacon.

    0day bacon? Sounds like a techno band in a Gibson novel.




    ... Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality?
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