• Local users?

    From Alpha@21:4/158 to All on Sat Jun 8 04:30:57 2019
    Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
    Seems like echomail gets a reasonable amount of activity, but most local systems I visit are crickets...
    So, are you actively looking/soliciting new users?
    Or is it all just, well, just kind of nostaligic?
    Is there a need/desire for innovation? Scale?
    I personally believe there's something zeitgeist-y about the BBS scene right now, on a global level. It's kind of like a friendly dark web.
    A decentralized antidote to everything wrong with the commercial internet.
    And that's pretty cool. And needed in the world. What do ya'll think?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: Strontium 90 BBS (21:4/158)
  • From Jagossel@21:1/150 to Alpha on Sat Jun 8 16:19:26 2019
    Re: Local users?
    By: Alpha to All on Sat Jun 08 2019 12:30 am

    Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?

    I had only a few people create accounts, but they are not active. Some of the other accounts are just visiging SysOps. Far less than I hoped, but kind of expected. I have heard someone one in a QWK network put it best: "It's a SysOp world now." I used to be a user, but after a couple of years, I decided to run a BBS myself. I never ran a BBS back in its hayday, so setting one up was a new experience for me.

    Seems like echomail gets a reasonable amount of activity, but most local systems I visit are crickets...
    So, are you actively looking/soliciting new users?

    Kind of... I listed my BBS on Telnet BBS Guide, Synchronet's BBS List, and mention it on Twitter with hashtags that seems to get buried under other subjects with the same hashtag. Telnet BBS Guide seems to work for my BBS.

    I plan on working on an AdBot, but with a twist. I will have to learn Synchronet's API in order for the AdBot to work. Apparently, I have a lot to learn...

    Or is it all just, well, just kind of nostaligic?

    It was nostaligic at first when I got onto a BBS back in 2016, but now it's more of a learning experience running one.

    Is there a need/desire for innovation? Scale?

    To scale? I don't think so... Innovate, always! :D

    I personally believe there's something zeitgeist-y about the BBS scene right now, on a global level. It's kind of like a friendly dark web.
    A decentralized antidote to everything wrong with the commercial internet. And that's pretty cool. And needed in the world. What do ya'll think?

    It is a nice escape from social media, and the people in today's BBS are a lot more decent than some of the crazies out there on social networking. The only social networks I use is Twitter and LinkedIn. I never post anything on LinkedIn, and I rarely tweet. I'm more active on my BBS than any where else.

    I do like the decentrialized nature of BBSes: there isn't some central overlord trying to control content. Granted, there could be some control on FTNs, but the people who run the nets aren't interested in controling content.

    That's my two cents on the subject...

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Disconnected Reality -- discreal.synchronetbbs.org (21:1/150)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Jagossel on Sat Jun 8 15:02:40 2019
    I plan on working on an AdBot, but with a twist. I will have to learn Synchronet's API in order for the AdBot to work. Apparently, I have a lot to learn...

    Synchronet has a postmsg.js that you can use to post ads or whatever you need to post from time to time.

    Or are you working on an adbot for the fun/learning of it?

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Alpha on Sat Jun 8 15:20:30 2019
    Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?

    I really don't have hopes for new users so I'm not disappointed that there are none. I put this BBS up about six months ago and have 9 users here ATM, most are sysops I think who came here to see what I am doing or maybe grab a file or
    two or touch base with me for some reason. If more arrive I will be happy about that.

    The BBS is online here because I enjoy BBSing (short answer).. :)

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From LockeDown@21:2/148 to Alpha on Sat Jun 8 17:40:13 2019
    On 08 Jun 2019, Alpha said the following...

    Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?

    I only just recently set up my BBS (just over a month ago) and yes I initially started it out of nostalgia. I posted my BBS details on telnetbbsguide.com
    just a couple days after initially setting it up with a couple DOOR games because I was excited to see if people would call in (same feelings I had
    when I set up my original BBS around '93). Surprisingly I had a few people starting to telnet in right away -- mainly just to sign in and a few played a couple rounds of LORD but most did not come back.

    A couple people continued to play LORD but once my listing dropped down the list on telnetbbsguide.com the traffic died down. I had a good 40+ people
    sign up which felt pretty good. But without the true activity I got kind of bummed until I saw the active message nets and realized I really missed interacting with others in the BBS scene. Currently only setup on fsxNet but working on linking with others right now to expand that reach with others.

    So for me right now it is connecting with other like minded individuals that keeps me going. And as far as BBS activity goes I think every BBS has
    something unique to offer and once I figure out what that will be for my BBS
    I will then start promoting it more.

    But enjoy the fact I can still interact with everyone from my own BBS and I
    do not feel rushed to make anything happen. As I have free time I can get my BBS closer to what I want and when I feel my BBS has more to offer will advertise it again to see if I can offer something to get people to want to come back.

    I personally believe there's something zeitgeist-y about the BBS scene right now, on a global level. It's kind of like a friendly dark web.
    A decentralized antidote to everything wrong with the commercial
    internet. And that's pretty cool. And needed in the world. What do ya'll think?

    This is actually one of the best parts of it for me. It feels like the early Internet and BBS days when people were just trying to share ideas with each other. The external Internet now has become this cesspool of hyper reactive hatred and negativity.

    This is the one part of the Internet that exists that actually makes me feel good.

    |07-|15LockeDown |07|08(|07SysOp|08) |08[|07mysticisland|08.|07strangled|08.|07net|08]

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Mystic Island BBS [mysticisland.strangled.net] (21:2/148)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Alpha on Sat Jun 8 22:16:14 2019
    Alpha wrote to All <=-

    Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
    Seems like echomail gets a reasonable amount of activity, but most
    local systems I visit are crickets...

    OK, it depends on how you define "local." I have at least one user on my Sychronet BBS that has been a user of mine since the 1990's. He was in my local dial-up area back then. After I moved, and then added the ability to logon via Internet and get QWK mail, he has been a user since. I still consider him "local" as the metro area he lives in is less than an hour
    away. :)

    I also have one "local" user that gets a QWK packet from my old GT board
    every night, via the Internet, and has since his local board went down
    sometime around 1999. He is in Canada.

    I have other folks that telnet in... some from Kentucky and some from elsewhere... but they do not post often (although some do play games some).

    You go on to talk about local message traffic vs. echomail... that is a
    little different. My users may post a message in reply to something I
    post, or leave me private mail but, as we are mostly not immediate local to each other we usually communicate via the echoes.

    So, are you actively looking/soliciting new users?

    Yes, I post ads once a week in all of the bbs ad areas on all of the
    networks I am a member of. They are usually in the form of an ANSI screen
    that advertises one of the doors I have online or, sometimes, the message networks available.

    Or is it all just, well, just kind of nostaligic?

    It is that also. I like getting the occassional message from someone who
    has not been on a BBS in ages and is logging on here (maybe even by modem!)
    to poke around. They may never come back, but I am glad I am here for them.

    Is there a need/desire for innovation? Scale?

    I try to add new doors and message networks from time to time. I have
    moved from running one board on '90's software to three... that one plus
    two on software that is more up-to-date and includes some forms of Internet connectivity... telnet, SSH, and www (both), and ftp (one of the two).

    I personally believe there's something zeitgeist-y about the BBS scene right now, on a global level. It's kind of like a friendly dark web.
    A decentralized antidote to everything wrong with the commercial
    internet. And that's pretty cool. And needed in the world. What do
    ya'll think?

    I plan to keep doing it for as long as I am able.

    Mike


    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Jagossel@21:1/150 to Al on Sun Jun 9 06:29:17 2019
    Re: Local users?
    By: Al to Jagossel on Sat Jun 08 2019 11:02 am

    I plan on working on an AdBot, but with a twist. I will have to learn Synchronet's API in order for the AdBot to work. Apparently, I have a lot to learn...

    Synchronet has a postmsg.js that you can use to post ads or whatever you need to post from time to time.

    Thanks! I may have to take a look into it!

    Or are you working on an adbot for the fun/learning of it?

    That, and I have a unique (I hope) idea for an AdBot that I would like to see if it is even possible.

    -jag
    Code it, Script it, Automate it!
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Disconnected Reality -- discreal.synchronetbbs.org (21:1/150)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Mon Jun 10 00:27:00 2019
    On 06-08-19 11:20, Al wrote to Alpha <=-

    The BBS is online here because I enjoy BBSing (short answer).. :)

    Same reason I run BBSs. :)


    ... Bit: The increment by which programmers slowly go mad
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Tiny@21:1/130.4 to Alpha on Sun Jun 9 14:53:08 2019
    Quoting Alpha to All <=-

    Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of
    local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?

    I have four regular users on the ezycom BBS, and about 3 on the
    MagickaBBS. (Not counting myself) I keep it running for the echomail
    for mysefl mainly. Could I switch to someone else's? sure, but after
    running a BBS since 1985 it's just part of my life. ;)

    Shawn

    ... Shin: Device for finding furniture in darkened room.
    --- Blue Wave/386
    * Origin: A Tiny slice o pi (21:1/130.4)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to Alpha on Sun Jun 9 12:34:19 2019
    Re: Local users?
    By: Alpha to All on Sat Jun 08 2019 12:30 am

    Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local
    login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?

    I've just re-started a couple of months ago, so I'm heavily in the tinkering stage, getting re-familiarized with message networks, etc. I'm not promoting my BBS purposefully or anything yet, so the user count is pretty low. I have a
    couple of things I'm looking to play around with, like packet radio tie-in, and once these sorts of things are sorted I'll likely start claiming it's "open
    for business".

    Seems like echomail gets a reasonable amount of activity, but most local
    systems I visit are crickets...

    Compared to what was going on late '90's, it's a far cry as far as echomail goes, too. But it's fantastic to see that things are still alive and it looks like re-growing again.

    Or is it all just, well, just kind of nostaligic?

    Or just a hobby that never really left the bloodstream.

    Is there a need/desire for innovation? Scale?

    The scale is there if necessary with the number of systems around, IMHO. Plenty
    of people are tinkering with various aspects of these things, so I think innovation is still there.

    A decentralized antidote to everything wrong with the commercial internet.

    Is it ironic that we use the Internet just like everything else to get data moved around?

    And that's pretty cool. And needed in the world. What do ya'll think?

    I think it's a nice-to-have, but I would have a tough time making an argument that it's a need - getting real change to occur to keep the planet habitable, now that's a need. BBSes - it's a fun hobby.
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From HusTler@21:4/10 to Va7aqd on Sun Jun 9 18:32:00 2019
    Re: Local users?
    By: Va7aqd to Alpha on Sun Jun 09 2019 08:34 am

    Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of
    local

    login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
    Compared to what was going on late '90's, it's a far cry as far as
    Not even close :-(
    echomail goes, too. But it's fantastic to see that things are still alive and it looks like re-growing again.

    Still breathing is more like it.

    Or just a hobby that never really left the bloodstream.
    That's exactly what it is. "A hobby" SysOps connecting with SysOps"

    Is there a need/desire for innovation? Scale?

    None what so ever. The only thing unique about any BBS is the look and feel the SysOp to their own personal satisfaction. There is no such thing as "Local" users with today's internet. If you want a "regular user base" you better program your BBS to serve free coffee cause there is really no reason to frequent any BBS with so many available. If you enjoy "Ansi Art" there some cool ansi artist that mod their boards. I personally enjoy calling those boards to check out their mods and screens. Other then that Msg networks are definetly not "needed" and with the advent of the web well..the rest as they say is history. ;-)

    HusTler
    *Havens BBS havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)*

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Sent from The Haven BBS: havens.synchro.net:23 (1:267/160)
    * Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)
  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Alpha on Mon Jun 10 10:53:50 2019
    I have 10-20 logins per day and it's almost local discussions only. I don't have to look for new users, they appear from time to time.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Alpha on Mon Jun 10 16:45:03 2019
    Re: Local users?
    By: Alpha to All on Sat Jun 08 2019 12:30 am

    Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?

    It seems difficult to attract only local users these days.. I actually have a couple local users who log in every so often, but usually, users seem to be all aorund the world. I don't really expect to get many local users.. I advertise my BBS on lists that are accessible all around the world online, so I pretty much expect a worldwide userbase.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Alpha@21:4/158 to Vk3jed on Tue Jun 11 01:20:04 2019
    Same reason I run BBSs. :)

    For sure! I just spent a week of "free" time fully installing and configuring Mystic in Win64, Win32, Linux32 and Linux64 (along with Synchronet and
    WWIV) before finding what was "right" for me (linux64).

    And I don't regret it, especially since my junk 10 year old Toshiba
    Satellite now has new life as a Xubuntu Mystic BBS server!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Strontium 90 BBS (21:4/158)
  • From LockeDown@21:2/148 to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 02:23:42 2019
    On 10 Jun 2019, Alpha said the following...

    Same reason I run BBSs. :)

    For sure! I just spent a week of "free" time fully installing and configuring Mystic in Win64, Win32, Linux32 and Linux64 (along with Synchronet and WWIV) before finding what was "right" for me (linux64).

    And I don't regret it, especially since my junk 10 year old Toshiba Satellite now has new life as a Xubuntu Mystic BBS server!

    Well I feel better that I ended up with the same OS/BBS software combo as you without having to test out all the other possibilities :)

    |07-|15LockeDown |07|08(|07SysOp|08) |08[|07mysticisland|08.|07strangled|08.|07net|08]

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Mystic Island BBS [mysticisland.strangled.net] (21:2/148)
  • From Alpha@21:4/158 to LockeDown on Tue Jun 11 15:43:46 2019
    Well I feel better that I ended up with the same OS/BBS software combo
    as you without having to test out all the other possibilities :)

    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Strontium 90 BBS (21:4/158)
  • From maskreet@21:1/114 to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 19:18:05 2019
    On 11 Jun 2019, Alpha said the following...

    Well I feel better that I ended up with the same OS/BBS software comb as you without having to test out all the other possibilities :)

    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on
    reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable
    set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup from the same bash script.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: throwbackbbs.com -\- meriden, ct -\- (21:1/114)
  • From LockeDown@21:2/148 to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 16:32:03 2019
    On 11 Jun 2019, Alpha said the following...
    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on
    reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable
    set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    No I have not tried it yet -- but if you do figure it out let me know!

    I am running as a VM via VirtualBox and barely restart unless needed for updates. I started out running as a daemon but I enjoy seeing the real time messages output -- especially while I am in the process of configuring with other message networks at the moment to see BINKP / Event triggers, etc.

    So for now if I do restart I just do load it back up manually via new
    terminal window. Least since it is a VM running on my main PC it is easy
    access to monitor and bring back online as needed.

    |07-|15LockeDown |07|08(|07SysOp|08) |08[|07mysticisland|08.|07strangled|08.|07net|08]

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Mystic Island BBS [mysticisland.strangled.net] (21:2/148)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Alpha on Wed Jun 12 12:49:29 2019
    On 11 Jun 2019 at 11:43a, Alpha pondered and said...

    reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from

    As a Windows user I can't do it any other way but I really like being able to see what MIS is doing so when I run stuff on my Raspberry Pi I also opt to do the same thing as you :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 17:51:41 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: Alpha to LockeDown on Tue Jun 11 2019 11:43 am

    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot?
    I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis
    server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env
    variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    Trying to understand why one might not want to run a daemon as a daemon. Why would you want to do this?
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to maskreet on Tue Jun 11 17:52:46 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: maskreet to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 2019 03:18 pm

    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works out, because
    I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup

    Had to? Is your init broken? Not sure how/why this is a thing, curious to hear more.
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to LockeDown on Tue Jun 11 17:54:05 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: LockeDown to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 2019 12:32 pm

    I am running as a VM via VirtualBox and barely restart unless needed for
    updates. I started out running as a daemon but I enjoy
    seeing the real time messages output -- especially while I am in the process
    of configuring with other message networks at the

    Does it not produce this information as a log that you can watch with tail?
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From ryan@21:1/168 to Alpha on Wed Jun 12 01:05:01 2019
    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on
    reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable
    set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    What's your init system?

    I run it in a screen session, and manage initializing it with sytemd. I'm
    happy to share my configs if this is your init system as well.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: monterey bbs (21:1/168)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Va7aqd on Tue Jun 11 18:05:18 2019
    Trying to understand why one might not want to run a daemon as a daemon. Why would you want to do this?

    Mystic's mis server can be run as a daemon in the background or in the forground so you get a realtime display of events/users/tossing/scanning/mail sessions. The background daemon is not available in the windows version.

    Synchronet has a similar (but different) feature. You can see what's happening in real time if your terminal server is not daemonized in sbbs.ini.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Alpha@21:4/158 to maskreet on Tue Jun 11 18:06:39 2019
    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup from the
    same bash script.

    Ahhh... I'll give that a shot. I find daemon works fine from cron @reboot, but I prefer the server version which shows me port status (I had port problems when initially configuring). Daemon works fine, but will try a bash approach
    as well! Was also going to see if screen might work...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Strontium 90 BBS (21:4/158)
  • From MeaTLoTioN@21:1/158 to Avon on Wed Jun 12 02:09:02 2019
    On 12 Jun 2019, Avon said the following...

    On 11 Jun 2019 at 11:43a, Alpha pondered and said...

    reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" fr

    As a Windows user I can't do it any other way but I really like being
    able to see what MIS is doing so when I run stuff on my Raspberry Pi I also opt to do the same thing as you :)


    I have mystic starting as daemon @reboot, and if I wanna see what's going on
    I use a great util called "multitail" which you can get via normal repo like "apt install multitail" and then use it like;

    multitail /mystic/logs/mutil.20190611.log /mystic/logs/mis.log /mystic/logs/fidopoll.log

    This will show on the screen a section for each log and will update it in realtime, full screen (well full terminal width, if you maximise it then full screen) =)

    If you really NEED to start it as server, you could run it inside screen like
    I do for mrc_client.py and then attach and detach to/from it to see it
    whenever you like... This cronjob might do the job...

    @reboot screen -dm -S mystic_server /bin/bash -c "cd /mystic/ &&
    ./mis server"

    Then to attach to the screen session, just type "screen -r mystic_server"
    and then hit return, to detach leaving it running, hold CTRL and hit A and
    keep holding CTRL and press D to detach... so CTRL+A + CTRL+D

    Hope this helps

    ---
    |14Best regards,
    |11Ch|03rist|11ia|15n |11a|03ka |11Me|03aTLoT|11io|15N

    |07── |08[|10eml|08] |15ml@erb.pw |07── |08[|10web|08] |15www.erb.pw |07───┐ |07── |08[|09fsx|08] |1521:1/158 |07── |08[|11tqw|08] |151337:1/101 |07┬──┘ |07── |08[|12rtn|08] |1580:774/81 |07─┬ |08[|14fdn|08] |152:250/5 |07───┘
    |07── |08[|10ark|08] |1510:104/2 |07─┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Quantum Wormhole, Ramsgate, UK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)
  • From Alpha@21:4/158 to ryan on Tue Jun 11 18:45:51 2019
    What's your init system?

    My init system is systemd as well -- would love any configs you can share!!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Strontium 90 BBS (21:4/158)
  • From LockeDown@21:2/148 to Va7aqd on Tue Jun 11 19:39:25 2019
    On 11 Jun 2019, Va7aqd said the following...

    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: LockeDown to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 2019 12:32 pm

    I am running as a VM via VirtualBox and barely restart unless needed fo
    updates. I started out running as a daemon but I enjoy
    seeing the real time messages output -- especially while I am in the pr
    of configuring with other message networks at the

    Does it not produce this information as a log that you can watch with tail? --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux

    I am sure it does but I prefer to see it right on the terminal as it happens and can easily see who is connected in the same terminal.

    |07-|15LockeDown |07|08(|07SysOp|08) |08[|07mysticisland|08.|07strangled|08.|07net|08]

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Mystic Island BBS [mysticisland.strangled.net] (21:2/148)
  • From Alpha@21:4/158 to Avon on Tue Jun 11 19:00:37 2019
    Yeah, there's a lot of good activity data in the -server screen...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Strontium 90 BBS (21:4/158)
  • From Alpha@21:4/158 to MeaTLoTioN on Tue Jun 11 19:41:10 2019
    I have mystic starting as daemon @reboot, and if I wanna see what's
    going on I use a great util called "multitail" which you can get via normal repo like "apt install multitail" and then use it like;

    multitail /mystic/logs/mutil.20190611.log /mystic/logs/mis.log /mystic/logs/fidopoll.log

    Just installed this -- works great, thanks for the tip!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Strontium 90 BBS (21:4/158)
  • From MeaTLoTioN@21:1/158 to Alpha on Wed Jun 12 04:00:16 2019
    multitail /mystic/logs/mutil.20190611.log /mystic/logs/mis.log /mystic/logs/fidopoll.log

    Just installed this -- works great, thanks for the tip!

    No problem, glad to be able to share =)

    ---
    |14Best regards,
    |11Ch|03rist|11ia|15n |11a|03ka |11Me|03aTLoT|11io|15N

    |07── |08[|10eml|08] |15ml@erb.pw |07── |08[|10web|08] |15www.erb.pw |07───┐ |07── |08[|09fsx|08] |1521:1/158 |07── |08[|11tqw|08] |151337:1/101 |07┬──┘ |07── |08[|12rtn|08] |1580:774/81 |07─┬ |08[|14fdn|08] |152:250/5 |07───┘
    |07── |08[|10ark|08] |1510:104/2 |07─┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Quantum Wormhole, Ramsgate, UK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)
  • From maskreet@21:1/114 to Va7aqd on Wed Jun 12 01:06:51 2019
    On 11 Jun 2019, Va7aqd said the following...

    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: maskreet to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 2019 03:18 pm

    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works out, bec
    I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup

    Had to? Is your init broken? Not sure how/why this is a thing, curious to hear more.

    Well, not *had*, but it was easier to figure out how to get a bunch of stuff running from a single bash script on startup than it was messing with initd. One cron job to start it, one bash script to run a bunch of other stuff. =)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: throwbackbbs.com -\- meriden, ct -\- (21:1/114)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to maskreet on Wed Jun 12 02:03:00 2019
    maskreet wrote to Alpha <=-

    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on
    reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable
    set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
    out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
    from the same bash script.

    Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Dan Clough on Wed Jun 12 17:57:02 2019
    maskreet wrote to Alpha <=-

    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
    out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
    from the same bash script.

    Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?

    depends on if your distribution has support for rc.local. OpenSUSE for
    example has done away with it, I had to make a systemd unit to start my
    BBS.

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: HappyLand - happyland.magickabbs.com:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Alpha on Wed Jun 12 21:26:00 2019
    On 06-10-19 21:20, Alpha wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Same reason I run BBSs. :)

    For sure! I just spent a week of "free" time fully installing and configuring Mystic in Win64, Win32, Linux32 and Linux64 (along with Synchronet and WWIV) before finding what was "right" for me (linux64).

    And I don't regret it, especially since my junk 10 year old Toshiba Satellite now has new life as a Xubuntu Mystic BBS server!

    Cool. I was sold on OS (Linux), but couldn't decide which BBS package, so I have Synchronet, Mystic and Magicka all running. :)


    ... I'm working on my master's thesis on Amish road rage.
    === MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From maskreet@21:1/114 to Dan Clough on Wed Jun 12 15:35:56 2019
    On 11 Jun 2019, Dan Clough said the following...

    maskreet wrote to Alpha <=-

    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" fr crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
    out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
    from the same bash script.

    Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?

    Yeah, yeah. =) There's a level of control I can do easier with bash scripts than I can with system startup scripts. I can pick what's running in what order, run it all at once or until something is finished, run a timer between execution, etc.

    Plus, I know DOS batch scripting better, and bash scripting seems to mirror that better for me. It's a preference, I'm not saying other ways don't work well for other peeps. =)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: throwbackbbs.com -\- meriden, ct -\- (21:1/114)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Wed Jun 12 13:24:46 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: Vk3jed to Alpha on Wed Jun 12 2019 05:26 pm

    Cool. I was sold on OS (Linux), but couldn't decide which BBS package, so I have Synchronet, Mystic and Magicka all running. :)

    I've been running my BBS on Synchronet, but I've been curious about Mystic, which also seems like a popular BBS package. I don't really know much about Magicka.

    Since my BBS is already working well with Synchronet, I'm not sure it would be worth spending a lot of time setting up another BBS package.. I also have mods I've written for Synchronet which I still maintain, so I don't plan on switching to another BBS package right now. :)

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to apam on Wed Jun 12 15:15:00 2019
    apam wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
    out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
    from the same bash script.

    Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?

    depends on if your distribution has support for rc.local.
    OpenSUSE for example has done away with it, I had to make a
    systemd unit to start my BBS.

    Wow, didn't even realize that was happening. Yet another reason
    to avoid using systemd...

    Thanks for the info!

    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to maskreet on Wed Jun 12 15:20:00 2019
    maskreet wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" fr crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
    out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
    from the same bash script.

    Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?

    Yeah, yeah. =) There's a level of control I can do easier with
    bash scripts than I can with system startup scripts. I can pick
    what's running in what order, run it all at once or until
    something is finished, run a timer between execution, etc.

    OK, I get that, sort of. In all fairness, though, "rc.local" *IS*
    a bash script, and runs after all other startup scripts have
    finished. I don't see any loss of control there.

    Plus, I know DOS batch scripting better, and bash scripting seems
    to mirror that better for me. It's a preference, I'm not saying
    other ways don't work well for other peeps. =)

    Again, rc.local *IS* a bash script. ;-)

    ... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From ryan@21:1/168 to Dan Clough on Wed Jun 12 20:52:00 2019
    depends on if your distribution has support for rc.local.
    OpenSUSE for example has done away with it, I had to make a
    systemd unit to start my BBS.

    Wow, didn't even realize that was happening. Yet another reason
    to avoid using systemd...

    Huh? Systemd init scripts are very simple, and also very powerful, and most
    of the common distros in the hands of desktop linux users these days include it. Not trying to start a systemd vs <other init system> thing here, just wasn't really following your logic.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: monterey bbs (21:1/168)
  • From maskreet@21:1/114 to Dan Clough on Wed Jun 12 18:12:01 2019
    On 12 Jun 2019, Dan Clough said the following...

    maskreet wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)

    I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
    out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup from the same bash script.

    Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?

    Yeah, yeah. =) There's a level of control I can do easier with
    bash scripts than I can with system startup scripts. I can pick what's running in what order, run it all at once or until
    something is finished, run a timer between execution, etc.

    OK, I get that, sort of. In all fairness, though, "rc.local" *IS*
    a bash script, and runs after all other startup scripts have
    finished. I don't see any loss of control there.

    True, but I also have an easier time remembering where my local bash scripts are, as a subdirectory off /mystic. I am a long-time Microsoft DOS/Windows user, so it's just easier for me. I think all of the different ways you can
    run startup stuff in Linux kind of throws me for a loop, so I just do what's easier for me, is all.

    init, initd, rc.local, cron (local and su), .service, etc, etc, etc. =)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: throwbackbbs.com -\- meriden, ct -\- (21:1/114)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to Al on Wed Jun 12 15:54:38 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: Al to Va7aqd on Tue Jun 11 2019 02:05 pm

    Trying to understand why one might not want to run a daemon as a daemon.
    Why would you want to do this?

    Mystic's mis server can be run as a daemon in the background or in the
    forground so you get a realtime display of
    events/users/tossing/scanning/mail sessions. The background daemon is not
    available in the windows version.

    Synchronet has a similar (but different) feature. You can see what's
    happening in real time if your terminal server is not
    daemonized in sbbs.ini.

    Sure, but I'm curious as to why this person is managing their daemonization the
    way they are (running from cron at startup). With synchro, you can follow the
    logs and there's console utilities to watch things from various angles. Running without daemonizing is good as a test but doesn't serve much or any practical purpose that I'm aware of when running it long term.
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to LockeDown on Wed Jun 12 15:57:31 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: LockeDown to Va7aqd on Tue Jun 11 2019 03:39 pm

    I am sure it does but I prefer to see it right on the terminal as it happens
    and can easily see who is connected in the same
    terminal.

    I could see that being handy for debug purposes, but not sure what purpose it would serve long term. I can see from the responses already though that the sysop is interested in learning more about daemonizing.
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to maskreet on Wed Jun 12 16:01:07 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: maskreet to Va7aqd on Tue Jun 11 2019 09:06 pm

    Well, not *had*, but it was easier to figure out how to get a bunch of stuff
    running from a single bash script on startup than
    it was messing with initd. One cron job to start it, one bash script to run
    a bunch of other stuff. =)

    Odd... I would figure learning init/systemd enough to have a process started at
    boot would be a good hurdle to climb as there's so many other benefits to knowing it. I personally wouldn't ever use cron for a startup task, as that's what init systems are designed to handle properly, while cron is supposed to run periodic/timed tasks (hence the name).

    Not that one can't hack a system together to do things in different ways, but the more unique/creative it is, the harder it's going to be longer term if someone needs to help analyze what might be going on with a system.
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Va7aqd on Wed Jun 12 17:04:20 2019
    Sure, but I'm curious as to why this person is managing their daemonization th >way they are (running from cron at startup).

    I think the OP was trying out different methods to start the BBS after a reboot.

    With synchro, you can follow the logs and there's console utilities to watch things from various angles. Running without daemonizing is good as a test
    but doesn't serve much or any practical purpose that I'm aware of when running it long term.

    It's a choice an operator needs to make. When setting things up in Mystic you may need to shutdown and restart mis. It's easy to do that from the mis screen (it's not much harder when daemonized) and you can see if the changes you made are working as expected.

    Todays mis is much more informative and gives you a lot of info at a glance without needing to look at logs.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to ryan on Wed Jun 12 18:59:00 2019
    ryan wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    ap> depends on if your distribution has support for rc.local.
    ap> OpenSUSE for example has done away with it, I had to make a
    ap> systemd unit to start my BBS.

    Wow, didn't even realize that was happening. Yet another reason
    to avoid using systemd...

    Huh? Systemd init scripts are very simple, and also very
    powerful, and most of the common distros in the hands of desktop
    linux users these days include it. Not trying to start a systemd
    vs <other init system> thing here, just wasn't really following
    your logic.

    I also don't want to get into a systemd vs <others> thing... but I
    will say this: some Linux users (including me) don't *want* some
    "master control" wizard-thing deciding how my system should boot
    up. It may be fine for users who just want to boot up a computer
    and start using it, not caring what's "under the hood", but that's
    not true for all. It certainly takes away much of the control of
    how you want your system to work, basically letting "someone else"
    decide these things for you. I don't like that. It also has some
    well documented security issues.

    Maybe it's kinda like the difference between driving a
    self-driving Prius, and a 1970 Chevelle SS. ;-)

    In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.

    ... Hiroshima '45...Chernobyl '86...Windows '95
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to maskreet on Wed Jun 12 19:01:00 2019
    maskreet wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?

    Yeah, yeah. =) There's a level of control I can do easier with
    bash scripts than I can with system startup scripts. I can pick what's running in what order, run it all at once or until
    something is finished, run a timer between execution, etc.

    OK, I get that, sort of. In all fairness, though, "rc.local" *IS*
    a bash script, and runs after all other startup scripts have
    finished. I don't see any loss of control there.

    True, but I also have an easier time remembering where my local
    bash scripts are, as a subdirectory off /mystic. I am a long-time Microsoft DOS/Windows user, so it's just easier for me. I think
    all of the different ways you can run startup stuff in Linux kind
    of throws me for a loop, so I just do what's easier for me, is
    all.

    Very good, and no worries! It's one of the beauties of using
    Linux - CHOICE!

    <THUMBS-UP>


    ... Clones are people two.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From LockeDown@21:2/148 to Va7aqd on Thu Jun 13 11:48:47 2019
    On 12 Jun 2019, Va7aqd said the following...
    By: LockeDown to Va7aqd on Tue Jun 11 2019 03:39 pm

    I am sure it does but I prefer to see it right on the terminal as it ha
    and can easily see who is connected in the same
    terminal.

    I could see that being handy for debug purposes, but not sure what
    purpose it would serve long term. I can see from the responses already though that the sysop is interested in learning more about daemonizing.

    Yeah I just started using Mystic over a month ago and setting up with new networks this week especially it has been helpful to easily see the activity log including binkp crash connections /etc.

    But maybe over time I may switch to daemon -- I have only head of one person having performance issues running as server vs daemon in Linux but that was
    on a Raspberry Pi.

    So for now keeping it simple -- if I wasn't constantly configuring things in other tabs and at a point where I was more hands off then loading it up as daemon again in the background will make more sense for me.

    |07-|15LockeDown |07|08(|07SysOp|08) |08[|07mysticisland|08.|07strangled|08.|07net|08]

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Mystic Island BBS [mysticisland.strangled.net] (21:2/148)
  • From maskreet@21:1/114 to Dan Clough on Thu Jun 13 16:29:45 2019
    On 12 Jun 2019, Dan Clough said the following...

    Very good, and no worries! It's one of the beauties of using
    Linux - CHOICE!

    <THUMBS-UP>

    Definitely. I'm almost at the point now where I'm about ready to just junk my Windows partition and use exclusively Linux. I repartitioned about six month ago to dual-boot an actual Linux install instead of messing with various VMs over the years. Oh, and playing around with lower powered setups, like on my RPi and a custom install on an older Samsung phone.

    I really like it a lot. My biggest hurdle was not being able to play stuff on the Linux setup for Windows games, but Lutris and WINE seem to be doing the
    job just fine. So yeah, I might just copy over what I want to save from my Windows paritition and just erase it completely, expand my Linux partition.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: throwbackbbs.com -\- meriden, ct -\- (21:1/114)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Alpha on Fri Jun 14 00:43:00 2019
    On 06-10-19 21:20, Alpha wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    And I don't regret it, especially since my junk 10 year old Toshiba Satellite now has new life as a Xubuntu Mystic BBS server!

    Now that's a pretty good use! :)


    ... Scepticism is the beginning of faith.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Nightfox on Fri Jun 14 00:47:00 2019
    On 06-12-19 09:24, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've been running my BBS on Synchronet, but I've been curious about Mystic, which also seems like a popular BBS package. I don't really
    know much about Magicka.

    Each package has its strengths.

    Since my BBS is already working well with Synchronet, I'm not sure it would be worth spending a lot of time setting up another BBS package..
    I also have mods I've written for Synchronet which I still maintain, so
    I don't plan on switching to another BBS package right now. :)

    My BBSs ended up doing separate things. Synchronet has become my primary access and QWK hub. Mystic has evolved to be my FTN hub for VKRadio, and any future nets that I run or hub for. Magicka is still a play system, but there's a lot to like about it.


    ... This MSG written by pouring warm tea on an Ouija board.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Fri Jun 14 01:13:00 2019
    On 06-12-19 11:20, Dan Clough wrote to maskreet <=-

    OK, I get that, sort of. In all fairness, though, "rc.local" *IS*
    a bash script, and runs after all other startup scripts have
    finished. I don't see any loss of control there.

    _IF_ it exists. Some distros using systemd have done away with rc.local. On these, you'd need to create a systemd unit just to run that script, before you can use it.


    ... Life is a first draft with no rewrite.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to ryan on Fri Jun 14 01:14:00 2019
    On 06-12-19 16:52, ryan wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Huh? Systemd init scripts are very simple, and also very powerful, and most of the common distros in the hands of desktop linux users these
    days include it. Not trying to start a systemd vs <other init system> thing here, just wasn't really following your logic.

    For me, the hardest part is finding usable information on managing systemd. I don't handle fragmented information well, and that's all I've found on systemd. :(


    ... Typographers rule, OQ
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Va7aqd on Fri Jun 14 01:19:00 2019
    On 06-12-19 12:01, Va7aqd wrote to maskreet <=-

    Odd... I would figure learning init/systemd enough to have a process started at
    boot would be a good hurdle to climb as there's so many other benefits
    to knowing it. I personally wouldn't ever use cron for a startup task,
    as that's what init systems are designed to handle properly, while cron
    is supposed to run periodic/timed tasks (hence the name).

    I sometimes use cron, but always in a "check then run" setup. This saves me having both a startup script/systemd unit or whatever, as well as the watchdog script from cron. I still need to learn more about systemd, but that's another issue.


    ... A bad day: "Transfer completed (5720468 bytes, 1 CPS)"
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Fri Jun 14 01:19:00 2019
    On 06-12-19 13:04, Al wrote to Va7aqd <=-

    It's a choice an operator needs to make. When setting things up in
    Mystic you may need to shutdown and restart mis. It's easy to do that
    from the mis screen (it's not much harder when daemonized) and you can
    see if the changes you made are working as expected.

    I'm an old Linux hand, and running as a daemon is just a habit for me. :)


    ... Stay back! I have a modem and I know how to use it!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Fri Jun 14 01:23:00 2019
    On 06-12-19 14:59, Dan Clough wrote to ryan <=-

    I also don't want to get into a systemd vs <others> thing... but I
    will say this: some Linux users (including me) don't *want* some
    "master control" wizard-thing deciding how my system should boot
    up. It may be fine for users who just want to boot up a computer
    and start using it, not caring what's "under the hood", but that's
    not true for all. It certainly takes away much of the control of
    how you want your system to work, basically letting "someone else"
    decide these things for you. I don't like that. It also has some
    well documented security issues.

    One thing I didn't get about systemd, or more correctly one of the philosophes behind it is that everything starts in parallel as much as possible, which SystemV was always an ordered sequential process. I always preferred the latter. The former reminds me too much of Windows, where you get a login prompt, long before the system is fully up and running, which is highly annoying, because I'm a login and get going kinda guy. SystemV suits me better that way.

    But systemd is here, and sooner or later, I need to learn it.

    Maybe it's kinda like the difference between driving a
    self-driving Prius, and a 1970 Chevelle SS. ;-)

    Possibly. :)

    In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.

    Slackware is a good, solid distro, but how easy is it to manage packages these days? I need something that is easy, like apt or yum.


    ... Let me know if this message doesn't get through to you.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Vk3jed on Thu Jun 13 16:23:22 2019
    It's a choice an operator needs to make. When setting things up in
    Mystic you may need to shutdown and restart mis. It's easy to do that
    from the mis screen (it's not much harder when daemonized) and you can
    see if the changes you made are working as expected.

    I'm an old Linux hand, and running as a daemon is just a habit for me. :)

    I always did to but I have to admit the mis screen is a nice thing to have at times.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Vk3jed on Thu Jun 13 16:25:32 2019
    In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.

    Slackware is a good, solid distro, but how easy is it to manage packages these
    days? I need something that is easy, like apt or yum.

    Slackware has easy package management, but it doesn't track dependencies at all
    so that is something the OP needs to make sure of themselves.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From ryan@21:1/168 to Vk3jed on Fri Jun 14 04:21:22 2019
    For me, the hardest part is finding usable information on managing systemd. I don't handle fragmented information well, and that's all
    I've found on systemd. :(

    Fair. I've used it for service management, not to mention for booting and actually speeding up my boot process. But I understand why a lot of people don't like it...I was one of them. In practice, it's fine (for me) and seemingly everyone that's made the switch hasn't switched back.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: monterey bbs (21:1/168)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to maskreet on Thu Jun 13 23:23:00 2019
    maskreet wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Very good, and no worries! It's one of the beauties of using
    Linux - CHOICE!

    <THUMBS-UP>

    Definitely. I'm almost at the point now where I'm about ready to
    just junk my Windows partition and use exclusively Linux. I
    repartitioned about six month ago to dual-boot an actual Linux
    install instead of messing with various VMs over the years. Oh,
    and playing around with lower powered setups, like on my RPi and
    a custom install on an older Samsung phone.

    I really like it a lot. My biggest hurdle was not being able to
    play stuff on the Linux setup for Windows games, but Lutris and
    WINE seem to be doing the job just fine. So yeah, I might just
    copy over what I want to save from my Windows paritition and just
    erase it completely, expand my Linux partition.

    Excellent! I made the move to Linux many years ago and am very
    pleased I did. I will admit to having a strong "gaming" machine
    still running Windows 7, for when I feel the need to play some of
    the old-skool shooter games I like (RTCW, Half-Life2, Quake, some
    others). Some of that can be done on Steam under Linux these
    days, but not all. I don't like VMs/Wine for such things. But
    99% of my time is spent in Linux, mostly on a laptop these days.

    I think you'll be happy to make the switch, virtually eliminates
    the worry about virus-type problems. Linux is quite easy to use
    these days. Go for it!

    ... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Vk3jed on Thu Jun 13 23:25:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    OK, I get that, sort of. In all fairness, though, "rc.local" *IS*
    a bash script, and runs after all other startup scripts have
    finished. I don't see any loss of control there.

    _IF_ it exists. Some distros using systemd have done away with
    rc.local. On these, you'd need to create a systemd unit just to
    run that script, before you can use it.

    Yes, I recently (in this thread) learned that some (all?) systems
    using systemd don't have such a thing as rc.local. Seems quite
    foreign to me, and I don't (and won't) use such a system.

    ... A woman drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Vk3jed on Thu Jun 13 23:31:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    One thing I didn't get about systemd, or more correctly one of
    the philosophes behind it is that everything starts in parallel
    as much as possible, which SystemV was always an ordered
    sequential process. I always preferred the latter. The former
    reminds me too much of Windows, where you get a login prompt,
    long before the system is fully up and running, which is highly
    annoying, because I'm a login and get going kinda guy. SystemV
    suits me better that way.

    Agreed. I'm not in that big of a hurry to have it boot up. I
    know about SystemV methods, but actually Slackware uses the "BSD"
    method of initializing, which is different but certainly more
    similar to SysV than to systemd.

    But systemd is here, and sooner or later, I need to learn it.

    Maybe. I don't really feel the need to do so myself. I don't
    make my living with Linux so don't *HAVE* to be "well-rounded" in
    all the various schemas. I know what I use, and that's enough for
    me. I certainly have booted up and tried MANY other distros,
    including systemd ones, and if you're not trying to tweak and
    control things too much, they all work fine.


    Maybe it's kinda like the difference between driving a
    self-driving Prius, and a 1970 Chevelle SS. ;-)

    Possibly. :)

    In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.

    Slackware is a good, solid distro, but how easy is it to manage
    packages these days? I need something that is easy, like apt or
    yum.

    Slackware is easy once you understand it, but certainly more
    involved than apt/yum/yast/etc... You can come fairly close to
    that level of automation if you want to, although I don't. One of
    the best ways to add packages is via a website called
    slackbuilds.org, where you download source code and specialized
    scripts that compile the program and package it up for easy
    installation. Works really well.


    ... Never assume the obvious is true!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From maskreet@21:1/114 to Dan Clough on Fri Jun 14 02:47:16 2019
    On 13 Jun 2019, Dan Clough said the following...

    Definitely. I'm almost at the point now where I'm about ready to
    just junk my Windows partition and use exclusively Linux. I repartitioned about six month ago to dual-boot an actual Linux install instead of messing with various VMs over the years. Oh,
    and playing around with lower powered setups, like on my RPi and
    a custom install on an older Samsung phone.

    I really like it a lot. My biggest hurdle was not being able to
    play stuff on the Linux setup for Windows games, but Lutris and
    WINE seem to be doing the job just fine. So yeah, I might just
    copy over what I want to save from my Windows paritition and just erase it completely, expand my Linux partition.

    Excellent! I made the move to Linux many years ago and am very
    pleased I did. I will admit to having a strong "gaming" machine
    still running Windows 7, for when I feel the need to play some of
    the old-skool shooter games I like (RTCW, Half-Life2, Quake, some others). Some of that can be done on Steam under Linux these
    days, but not all. I don't like VMs/Wine for such things. But
    99% of my time is spent in Linux, mostly on a laptop these days.

    I think you'll be happy to make the switch, virtually eliminates
    the worry about virus-type problems. Linux is quite easy to use
    these days. Go for it!

    I've pretty much already made the switch, just have to pull the trigger on moving stuff over and repartitioning/erasing. In the six or so months I've
    been doing the dual-boot dealy, I've switched over to my Windows partition twice. First time was to see about some setting or other, I don't remember,
    but it was brief. Second time was the other day when I deleted and
    uninstalled a bunch of crap (seven year's worth!) to make room to expand this Linux partition. I'd only given myself about 100GB for Linux, and I was
    running out of room quick. =)

    As far as WINE goes, Lutris makes it a ton easier to deal with gaming. I was able to get two obscure games working 100% perfectly with no discernible slowdown (recent, too, 2014 and 2017) and I moved my WoW game over to Linux, got that sucker working no problem. That was really my only reason for
    keeping Windows, I'd heard horror stories about gaming under WINE, but I've
    had zero issues so far.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/23 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: throwbackbbs.com -\- meriden, ct -\- (21:1/114)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to LockeDown on Fri Jun 14 01:37:46 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: LockeDown to Va7aqd on Thu Jun 13 2019 07:48 am

    Yeah I just started using Mystic over a month ago and setting up with new
    networks this week especially it has been helpful to
    easily see the activity log including binkp crash connections /etc.
    So for now keeping it simple -- if I wasn't constantly configuring things in
    other tabs and at a point where I was more hands
    off then loading it up as daemon again in the background will make more
    sense for me.

    At some point perhaps I'll see what Mystic looks like within a VM or something - I did try it out a few years ago for a short while, but forget what it's console looks like or how it behaved.

    Synchro's more along the daemon-with-logging-out-the-wazoo lines, at least under Linux, and it has a console monitoring app that runs separate, etc. So, it seems to fit more in line (by default, anyway) with how I figure things under a Linux server "should" (heh) run.

    I hope you're finding things fun along the way anyway!
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From LockeDown@21:2/148 to Va7aqd on Fri Jun 14 01:44:25 2019
    On 13 Jun 2019, Va7aqd said the following...
    I hope you're finding things fun along the way anyway!

    That I am!

    |07-|15LockeDown |07|08(|07SysOp|08) |08[|07mysticisland|08.|07strangled|08.|07net|08]

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Mystic Island BBS [mysticisland.strangled.net] (21:2/148)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to Vk3jed on Fri Jun 14 01:50:12 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: Vk3jed to Va7aqd on Thu Jun 13 2019 09:19 pm

    I sometimes use cron, but always in a "check then run" setup. This saves me
    having both a startup script/systemd unit or
    whatever, as well as the watchdog script from cron. I still need to learn
    more about systemd, but that's another issue.

    I could rag on systemd all day for all of the horrible things they're doing with it beyond being an init/boot manager, and introducing security holes that more mature software (and single-task software!) isn't dealing with. However, that said, it does do init/boot stuff 'ok' and there's no need for an external watchdog on your daemon... the unit file can have:

    Restart=on-failure
    RestartSec=30

    For example.

    I presume this is along the lines of what you are doing a la watchdog scripts? --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Dan Clough on Fri Jun 14 09:51:51 2019
    ryan wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    ap>> depends on if your distribution has support for rc.local.
    ap>> OpenSUSE for example has done away with it, I had to make a
    ap>> systemd unit to start my BBS.

    Wow, didn't even realize that was happening. Yet another reason
    to avoid using systemd...

    Huh? Systemd init scripts are very simple, and also very
    powerful, and most of the common distros in the hands of desktop
    linux users these days include it. Not trying to start a systemd
    vs <other init system> thing here, just wasn't really following
    your logic.

    I also don't want to get into a systemd vs <others> thing... but I
    will say this: some Linux users (including me) don't *want* some
    "master control" wizard-thing deciding how my system should boot
    up. It may be fine for users who just want to boot up a computer
    and start using it, not caring what's "under the hood", but that's
    not true for all. It certainly takes away much of the control of
    how you want your system to work, basically letting "someone else"
    decide these things for you. I don't like that. It also has some
    well documented security issues.

    Maybe it's kinda like the difference between driving a
    self-driving Prius, and a 1970 Chevelle SS. ;-)

    In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.

    I do appreciate how FreeBSD handles these things through /etc/rc.conf where you
    set what processes that will start on boot, as well as a lot of other settings. It's all there in one simple file, very easy to work with.


    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Fri Jun 14 21:17:00 2019
    On 06-13-19 12:23, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I always did to but I have to admit the mis screen is a nice thing to
    have at times.

    It probably is, but I'm not going to jump through hoops to get it. :)


    ... A cat is always on the wrong side of the door!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Fri Jun 14 21:18:00 2019
    On 06-13-19 12:25, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.

    Slackware is a good, solid distro, but how easy is it to manage packages
    hese
    days? I need something that is easy, like apt or yum.

    Slackware has easy package management, but it doesn't track
    dependencies at all
    so that is something the OP needs to make sure of themselves.

    Well, dependency tracking is a must have for me, manually tracking those can be time consuming.


    ... I'm not gonna lie to you. Heaven is a nice place. -Satan
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to ryan on Fri Jun 14 21:26:00 2019
    On 06-14-19 00:21, ryan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    For me, the hardest part is finding usable information on managing systemd. I don't handle fragmented information well, and that's all
    I've found on systemd. :(

    Fair. I've used it for service management, not to mention for booting
    and actually speeding up my boot process. But I understand why a lot of

    I'm not convinced it actually speeds up the boot process in a meaningfiul wayon HDD based machines. Perhaps on SSD it can, because there's less seek time involved. I'm not a fan of getting an earlier login prompt then having to wait for the system to be ready for use (*cough* Windows *cough*).

    people don't like it...I was one of them. In practice, it's fine (for
    me) and seemingly everyone that's made the switch hasn't switched back.

    I thinbk that's more a case of systemd is the way most distros are going. I still need useful information on how to use systemd, preferably from first principles, rather than rote memory of commands (my memory is far more efficient when I have a set of rules to follow). Sadly, I've seen little useful documentation on working with systemd. :(


    ... "640K of RAM should be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Fri Jun 14 21:27:00 2019
    On 06-13-19 19:25, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yes, I recently (in this thread) learned that some (all?) systems
    using systemd don't have such a thing as rc.local. Seems quite
    foreign to me, and I don't (and won't) use such a system.

    Seems to be quite common these days.


    ... Science is nothing but trained and organized common sense.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Fri Jun 14 21:30:00 2019
    On 06-13-19 19:31, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Agreed. I'm not in that big of a hurry to have it boot up. I

    Me either. :)

    know about SystemV methods, but actually Slackware uses the "BSD"
    method of initializing, which is different but certainly more
    similar to SysV than to systemd.

    It's been many years since I've seen a BSD startup, but from memory, it did make sense to me. I encountered BSD before SystemV.

    But systemd is here, and sooner or later, I need to learn it.

    Maybe. I don't really feel the need to do so myself. I don't
    make my living with Linux so don't *HAVE* to be "well-rounded" in
    all the various schemas. I know what I use, and that's enough for
    me. I certainly have booted up and tried MANY other distros,
    including systemd ones, and if you're not trying to tweak and
    control things too much, they all work fine.

    Yeah, the distros I use tend to use systemd, so learning it will be advantageous.

    Slackware is easy once you understand it, but certainly more
    involved than apt/yum/yast/etc... You can come fairly close to
    that level of automation if you want to, although I don't. One of
    the best ways to add packages is via a website called
    slackbuilds.org, where you download source code and specialized
    scripts that compile the program and package it up for easy
    installation. Works really well.

    And uninstallation, if necessary? I have to avoid manual intervention as much as possible (not entirely possible, because I always have to compile some things from source).


    ... If you have a rotary phone, please press 1 now.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Va7aqd on Fri Jun 14 21:33:00 2019
    On 06-13-19 21:50, Va7aqd wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I could rag on systemd all day for all of the horrible things they're doing with it beyond being an init/boot manager, and introducing
    security holes that more mature software (and single-task software!)
    isn't dealing with. However, that said, it does do init/boot stuff
    'ok' and there's no need for an external watchdog on your daemon... the unit file can have:

    Restart=on-failure
    RestartSec=30

    For example.

    That is cool, but the issue is the lack of useful (to me) documentation. I can't get an overall model of systemd, just fragments, and that does my head in. :(

    I presume this is along the lines of what you are doing a la watchdog scripts?

    I suspect similar - check if PID running, if not, cleanup and restart process.


    ... Boy, I'm tellin you fer yer own good, I studied them things.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Joacim Melin on Fri Jun 14 13:07:00 2019
    Joacim Melin wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Wow, didn't even realize that was happening. Yet another reason
    to avoid using systemd...

    Huh? Systemd init scripts are very simple, and also very
    powerful, and most of the common distros in the hands of desktop
    linux users these days include it. Not trying to start a systemd
    vs <other init system> thing here, just wasn't really following
    your logic.

    I also don't want to get into a systemd vs <others> thing... but I
    will say this: some Linux users (including me) don't *want* some
    "master control" wizard-thing deciding how my system should boot
    up. It may be fine for users who just want to boot up a computer
    and start using it, not caring what's "under the hood", but that's
    not true for all. It certainly takes away much of the control of
    how you want your system to work, basically letting "someone else"
    decide these things for you. I don't like that. It also has some
    well documented security issues.

    I do appreciate how FreeBSD handles these things through
    /etc/rc.conf where you
    set what processes that will start on boot, as well as a lot of
    other settings. It's all there in one simple file, very easy to
    work with.

    Yes indeed. Slackware Linux is similar to that, using a "BSD
    style" init system. Very straightforward and easy to modify.


    ... A woman drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Vk3jed on Fri Jun 14 13:09:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Yes, I recently (in this thread) learned that some (all?) systems
    using systemd don't have such a thing as rc.local. Seems quite
    foreign to me, and I don't (and won't) use such a system.

    Seems to be quite common these days.

    Oh yes, it certainly is!

    So are fancy coffee/latte/frappe/cappachino/foo-foo drinks. I
    don't like them, either. ;-)


    ... Behind every great man is an amazed mother-in-law!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Vk3jed on Fri Jun 14 13:15:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    But systemd is here, and sooner or later, I need to learn it.

    Maybe. I don't really feel the need to do so myself. I don't
    make my living with Linux so don't *HAVE* to be "well-rounded" in
    all the various schemas. I know what I use, and that's enough for
    me. I certainly have booted up and tried MANY other distros,
    including systemd ones, and if you're not trying to tweak and
    control things too much, they all work fine.

    Yeah, the distros I use tend to use systemd, so learning it will
    be advantageous.

    Yes, no doubt about that, if you are going to use it.

    Slackware is easy once you understand it, but certainly more
    involved than apt/yum/yast/etc... You can come fairly close to
    that level of automation if you want to, although I don't. One of
    the best ways to add packages is via a website called
    slackbuilds.org, where you download source code and specialized
    scripts that compile the program and package it up for easy
    installation. Works really well.

    And uninstallation, if necessary? I have to avoid manual
    intervention as much as possible (not entirely possible, because
    I always have to compile some things from source).

    If you make a package with the automated scripts (Slackbuilds) as
    I described above, you would install it with the built-in
    command/utility "installpkg <name>". Or perhaps "upgradepkg
    <name>" if it was previously installed and you made a newer
    version. Conversely, you can uninstall it with "removepkg
    <name>".

    One caveat with this package management system is that there is no
    dependency checking/handling (as I believe somebody else in this
    thread mentioned). You are expected to take care of that on your
    own. If one uses the Slackbuilds.org website to get
    source/scripts, the site tells you about any dependencies needed,
    so you can get/build them the same way. Not really too hard.


    ... If it has tits or tires sooner or later it's going to give you trouble!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From ryan@21:1/168 to Vk3jed on Fri Jun 14 21:09:30 2019
    I thinbk that's more a case of systemd is the way most distros are
    going. I still need useful information on how to use systemd,
    preferably from first principles, rather than rote memory of commands
    (my memory is far more efficient when I have a set of rules to follow). Sadly, I've seen little useful documentation on working with systemd. :(

    Have you checked out the arch forums by chance? That's where I educated
    myself on the basics. Now I am comfortable writing my own service definitions (or init scripts or whatever we call them), which is basically the extent of how far I expect to delve into the workings of an init system anyway :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: monterey bbs (21:1/168)
  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to Vk3jed on Fri Jun 14 14:15:00 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: Vk3jed to Va7aqd on Fri Jun 14 2019 05:33 pm

    Restart=on-failure
    RestartSec=30
    That is cool, but the issue is the lack of useful (to me) documentation. I
    can't get an overall model of systemd, just
    fragments, and that does my head in. :(

    Docs, schmocks! Who needs 'em! Aren't you reading the mailing list, blog, news page, RSS feed, slack and IRC channels and git commits? Man, it's so easy! haha.

    The most egregious pile of crap I've heard regarding systemd is when they decided to simply change behaviour of login/logout handling to kill all that user's processes upon logout. IIRC, the 'new default' had to be reverted to a configurable option, but still, they really have no idea what they're doing with system administration and shouldn't be trying to mess with so many parts of a system.

    The security issues are pretty bad, too, but wouldn't be occurring if they'd just stick to being an init.

    guh.
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Sat Jun 15 10:42:00 2019
    On 06-14-19 09:09, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    So are fancy coffee/latte/frappe/cappachino/foo-foo drinks. I
    don't like them, either. ;-)

    You're missing out! :D


    ... Sign my petition to outlaw this.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Sat Jun 15 10:44:00 2019
    On 06-14-19 09:15, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    One caveat with this package management system is that there is no dependency checking/handling (as I believe somebody else in this
    thread mentioned). You are expected to take care of that on your
    own. If one uses the Slackbuilds.org website to get
    source/scripts, the site tells you about any dependencies needed,
    so you can get/build them the same way. Not really too hard.

    That's a biggie for me, anything that adds hoops or fiddly bits is not good. Package management was the reason I moved from Slackware to Red Hat over 20 years ago. I liked that Slack was a solid distro, but found it a pain to manage.


    ... Weeds! No, that is my vineyard! Ever heard of dandelion wine?
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to ryan on Sat Jun 15 10:45:00 2019
    On 06-14-19 17:09, ryan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Have you checked out the arch forums by chance? That's where I educated myself on the basics. Now I am comfortable writing my own service definitions (or init scripts or whatever we call them), which is
    basically the extent of how far I expect to delve into the workings of
    an init system anyway :)

    Well, your needs from an init system are the same as mine, but not a good source of info for me. Me and web forums don't get along. :(


    ... Under capitalism man exploits man; under socialism the reverse is true.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Va7aqd on Sat Jun 15 10:46:00 2019
    On 06-14-19 10:15, Va7aqd wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Docs, schmocks! Who needs 'em! Aren't you reading the mailing list,
    blog, news page, RSS feed, slack and IRC channels and git commits? Man, it's so easy! haha.

    Hahaha, as I said, fragmented information is useless to me. :P

    The most egregious pile of crap I've heard regarding systemd is when
    they decided to simply change behaviour of login/logout handling to
    kill all that user's processes upon logout. IIRC, the 'new default' had
    to be reverted to a configurable option, but still, they really have no idea what they're doing with system administration and shouldn't be
    trying to mess with so many parts of a system.

    That seems a rather stupid thing to do.

    The security issues are pretty bad, too, but wouldn't be occurring if they'd just stick to being an init.

    Sounds like trying to do too much. :)


    ... There are many internet scams; send me $20 to learn how.
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  • From Xenos@21:4/147 to Va7aqd on Sat Jun 15 16:07:50 2019
    RE: Re: Local users?
    BY: Va7aqd (21:4/150)

    On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 09:15, Va7aqd (21:4/150) wrote:

    The security issues are pretty bad, too, but wouldn't be occurring if they'd V>just stick to being an init.

    Hear, hear!
    :::::::[Alien's Alcove! WWIV 5 on Linux : telnet://aliens.free.net.ph]:::::::

    --- WWIV 5.3.0.dev-xenos
    * Origin: /\lien's /\lcove! WWIV 5 on Linux | aliens.free.net.ph (21:4/147)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Vk3jed on Sat Jun 15 02:56:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    One caveat with this package management system is that there is no dependency checking/handling (as I believe somebody else in this
    thread mentioned). You are expected to take care of that on your
    own. If one uses the Slackbuilds.org website to get
    source/scripts, the site tells you about any dependencies needed,
    so you can get/build them the same way. Not really too hard.

    That's a biggie for me, anything that adds hoops or fiddly bits
    is not good. Package management was the reason I moved from
    Slackware to Red Hat over 20 years ago. I liked that Slack was a
    solid distro, but found it a pain to manage.

    It's all a matter of perspective, I think. The package management
    philosophy of Slackware, the stability, and the history (oldest
    surviving Linux distro) attracts me to it. It's the most Unix-ish
    of distros and I like that. I also like the wide diversity and
    choices that the Linux world offers through other distros. Seems
    like a win-win to me - freedom and choice!

    https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/is-slackware-the-oldest-remaining-linux-distribut ion-right-for-you/


    ... Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.
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  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to Vk3jed on Sat Jun 15 13:05:06 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: Vk3jed to ryan on Sat Jun 15 2019 06:45 am

    Well, your needs from an init system are the same as mine, but not a good
    source of info for me. Me and web forums don't get
    along. :(

    Heh, mind if I ask about this? I know the feel of a BBS message base is quite different, but in a general sense, a web forum really isn't much different than
    what we're doing here, is it?
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Sun Jun 16 13:36:00 2019
    On 06-14-19 22:56, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    It's all a matter of perspective, I think. The package management philosophy of Slackware, the stability, and the history (oldest
    surviving Linux distro) attracts me to it. It's the most Unix-ish
    of distros and I like that. I also like the wide diversity and
    choices that the Linux world offers through other distros. Seems
    like a win-win to me - freedom and choice!

    Yep, agree totally, and that's what Linux is great for. :) My needs for package management are fairly high, not because I don't know how to do things more manually, but if anything, because I have major issues with anything fiddly, especially when it's of a "routine" nature (I also hated and had issues with backups too - a task better automated and/or delegateed to someone else!). :)


    ... Married by a judge; should've asked for a jury. -Groucho
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Va7aqd on Sun Jun 16 13:38:00 2019
    On 06-15-19 09:05, Va7aqd wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: Vk3jed to ryan on Sat Jun 15 2019 06:45 am

    Well, your needs from an init system are the same as mine, but not a good
    source of info for me. Me and web forums don't get
    along. :(

    Heh, mind if I ask about this? I know the feel of a BBS message base is quite different, but in a general sense, a web forum really isn't much different than
    what we're doing here, is it?

    In concept no, in accessing, yes.

    1. MUCH slower

    2. Clumsier user interface, especially when hopping from board to board or thread to thread

    Suffice to say I can read 10 or more times in echomail than I can on a web forum at the same time, and even if I had to BBS over a modem, the increased transfer times wouldn't be a major issue, because they occur in one block (when transferring mail packets), not in little 5-10 second bits like web forums tend to.


    ... If everything seems to go right, check your zipper.
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  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Vk3jed on Sun Jun 16 02:18:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    It's all a matter of perspective, I think. The package management philosophy of Slackware, the stability, and the history (oldest
    surviving Linux distro) attracts me to it. It's the most Unix-ish
    of distros and I like that. I also like the wide diversity and
    choices that the Linux world offers through other distros. Seems
    like a win-win to me - freedom and choice!

    Yep, agree totally, and that's what Linux is great for. :) My
    needs for package management are fairly high, not because I don't
    know how to do things more manually, but if anything, because I
    have major issues with anything fiddly, especially when it's of a "routine" nature (I also hated and had issues with backups too -
    a task better automated and/or delegateed to someone else!). :)

    Understood... I don't mind most of the fiddling, although it can
    get tedious and easy to put off. I tend to put things off for a
    while and then do a lot of it at once. I have noticed that I'm
    less likely to fiddle nowadays compared to 10-15 years ago. For a
    long time I tweaked everything quite a bit, including custom
    kernel configs, which I rarely do any more. Wisdom, I call it.
    ;-)



    ... I avoid all sports which cannot be played while holding a hot dog.
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  • From Va7aqd@21:4/150 to Vk3jed on Sun Jun 16 02:07:47 2019
    Re: Re: Local users?
    By: Vk3jed to Va7aqd on Sun Jun 16 2019 09:38 am

    Heh, mind if I ask about this? I know the feel of a BBS message base is
    quite different, but in a general sense, a web
    forum really isn't much different than
    what we're doing here, is it?

    In concept no, in accessing, yes.
    1. MUCH slower

    OK, I'm not debating this, but I wonder why this is. I find that reading web forums turns out to generally be slower for me as well, and I'm not sure if it's because of the information overload, visual clutter, or what. You'd think, when you can load an entire thread, or say 10 posts of a thread, on to a
    single page and scroll through all at your own reading speed that it would be faster overall than the one-message-at-a-time on the BBS (and possibly jumping between threads as you go through in numeric order).

    2. Clumsier user interface, especially when hopping from board to board or
    thread to thread

    That one's debatable, I think - I think generall works faster on a web forum for me.

    a modem, the increased transfer times wouldn't be a major issue, because
    they occur in one block (when transferring mail
    packets), not in little 5-10 second bits like web forums tend to.

    This, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. I'm actually quite tired, so if it's really obvious, please forgive me.
    --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
    * Origin: VA7AQD's Tavern in Kamloops, BC! - bbs.isurf.ca (21:4/150)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Mon Jun 17 00:41:00 2019
    On 06-15-19 22:18, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Understood... I don't mind most of the fiddling, although it can
    get tedious and easy to put off. I tend to put things off for a
    while and then do a lot of it at once. I have noticed that I'm
    less likely to fiddle nowadays compared to 10-15 years ago. For a
    long time I tweaked everything quite a bit, including custom
    kernel configs, which I rarely do any more. Wisdom, I call it.
    ;-)

    My issue is suspected ADHD. I've always had a severe intolerance of tedious activities. I get picked up by a screening test, but haven't followed it up.

    ... I avoid all sports which cannot be played while holding a hot dog.

    I don't. :P


    ... Indifference error, press any key. Or don't. See if I care.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Va7aqd on Mon Jun 17 00:48:00 2019
    On 06-15-19 22:07, Va7aqd wrote to Vk3jed <=-
    1. MUCH slower

    OK, I'm not debating this, but I wonder why this is. I find that
    reading web forums turns out to generally be slower for me as well, and I'm not sure if it's because of the information overload, visual
    clutter, or what. You'd think, when you can load an entire thread, or
    say 10 posts of a thread, on to a
    single page and scroll through all at your own reading speed that it would be faster overall than the one-message-at-a-time on the BBS (and possibly jumping between threads as you go through in numeric order).

    Having all posts in one thread does help a lot.

    2. Clumsier user interface, especially when hopping from board to board or
    thread to thread

    That one's debatable, I think - I think generall works faster on a web forum for me.

    Click into a thread, back out, sometimes have to scroll to top or bottom of page to access navigation. In my offline reader, all I have to do to navigate to the next message is hit <enter>. Much of threading is done in my head. :D

    a modem, the increased transfer times wouldn't be a major issue, because
    they occur in one block (when transferring mail
    packets), not in little 5-10 second bits like web forums tend to.

    This, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. I'm actually quite tired, so if it's really obvious, please forgive me.

    It is obvious. Click on a thread, it generally takes several seconds to get the posts up. Because this happens interactively, you have to sit and wait. Multiply this by the number of operations required to read all posts of interest, and those little delays add up to minutes.


    ... It requires a very unusual mind to make an analysis of the obvious.
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  • From Joacim Melin@21:2/130 to Vk3jed on Mon Jun 17 11:09:12 2019
    On 06-15-19 22:18, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Understood... I don't mind most of the fiddling, although it can
    get tedious and easy to put off. I tend to put things off for a
    while and then do a lot of it at once. I have noticed that I'm
    less likely to fiddle nowadays compared to 10-15 years ago. For a
    long time I tweaked everything quite a bit, including custom
    kernel configs, which I rarely do any more. Wisdom, I call it.
    ;-)

    My issue is suspected ADHD. I've always had a severe intolerance of tedious
    activities. I get picked up by a screening test, but haven't followed
    it up.

    ... I avoid all sports which cannot be played while holding a hot dog.

    I don't. :P

    Speaking from own experience you have to learn to work around that. Routines, routines and more routines is what keeps the life of an ADHD person in check, with or without the help of medication (I've tried both and have been on medication for 10+ years now).

    The older you get the easier it gets to deal with these things as younger persons tend to be more impulsive and have a hard time dealing with those impulses.



    --- NiKom v2.5.0
    * Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Joacim Melin on Wed Jun 19 00:30:00 2019
    On 06-17-19 07:09, Joacim Melin wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Speaking from own experience you have to learn to work around that. Routines, routines and more routines is what keeps the life of an ADHD person in check, with or without the help of medication (I've tried
    both and have been on medication for 10+ years now).

    That's why I tend to make use of a lot of automation and notifications for routine things. I think my best was an automatic podcast recorder that literally needed no maintenance, just had to remember to periodically copy the recordings off it. I had a week to use the uncompressed recordings it made, and 4 weeks to use the compressed versions. Those were the time limits I set for the auto cleanup scripts. :)

    And I make heavy use of my phone's calendar. :)

    The older you get the easier it gets to deal with these things as
    younger persons tend to be more impulsive and have a hard time dealing with those impulses.

    Some things work better, others don't. Life's now busier, so more chance of losing track of something. :)

    So, anyway there are reasons I choose the distros I choose. That's one reason anyway, the others are some software I use is easiest to install on speciifc flavours - often Debian based these days.


    ... The easy way is always mined.
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