Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
Seems like echomail gets a reasonable amount of activity, but most local systems I visit are crickets...
So, are you actively looking/soliciting new users?
Or is it all just, well, just kind of nostaligic?
Is there a need/desire for innovation? Scale?
I personally believe there's something zeitgeist-y about the BBS scene right now, on a global level. It's kind of like a friendly dark web.
A decentralized antidote to everything wrong with the commercial internet. And that's pretty cool. And needed in the world. What do ya'll think?
I plan on working on an AdBot, but with a twist. I will have to learn Synchronet's API in order for the AdBot to work. Apparently, I have a lot to learn...
Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
I personally believe there's something zeitgeist-y about the BBS scene right now, on a global level. It's kind of like a friendly dark web.
A decentralized antidote to everything wrong with the commercial
internet. And that's pretty cool. And needed in the world. What do ya'll think?
Alpha wrote to All <=-
Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
Seems like echomail gets a reasonable amount of activity, but most
local systems I visit are crickets...
So, are you actively looking/soliciting new users?
Or is it all just, well, just kind of nostaligic?
Is there a need/desire for innovation? Scale?
I personally believe there's something zeitgeist-y about the BBS scene right now, on a global level. It's kind of like a friendly dark web.
A decentralized antidote to everything wrong with the commercial
internet. And that's pretty cool. And needed in the world. What do
ya'll think?
I plan on working on an AdBot, but with a twist. I will have to learn Synchronet's API in order for the AdBot to work. Apparently, I have a lot to learn...
Synchronet has a postmsg.js that you can use to post ads or whatever you need to post from time to time.
Or are you working on an adbot for the fun/learning of it?
On 06-08-19 11:20, Al wrote to Alpha <=-
The BBS is online here because I enjoy BBSing (short answer).. :)
Quoting Alpha to All <=-
Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of
local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of locallogin/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
Seems like echomail gets a reasonable amount of activity, but most localsystems I visit are crickets...
Or is it all just, well, just kind of nostaligic?
Is there a need/desire for innovation? Scale?
A decentralized antidote to everything wrong with the commercial internet.
And that's pretty cool. And needed in the world. What do ya'll think?
Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of
local
login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?Not even close :-(
Compared to what was going on late '90's, it's a far cry as far as
echomail goes, too. But it's fantastic to see that things are still alive and it looks like re-growing again.
Or just a hobby that never really left the bloodstream.That's exactly what it is. "A hobby" SysOps connecting with SysOps"
Is there a need/desire for innovation? Scale?
Just curious... Obviously it's not 1994, but sysops: what kind of local login/user base do you have? Do you expect? Hope for?
Same reason I run BBSs. :)
Same reason I run BBSs. :)
For sure! I just spent a week of "free" time fully installing and configuring Mystic in Win64, Win32, Linux32 and Linux64 (along with Synchronet and WWIV) before finding what was "right" for me (linux64).
And I don't regret it, especially since my junk 10 year old Toshiba Satellite now has new life as a Xubuntu Mystic BBS server!
Well I feel better that I ended up with the same OS/BBS software combo
as you without having to test out all the other possibilities :)
Well I feel better that I ended up with the same OS/BBS software comb as you without having to test out all the other possibilities :)
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on
reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable
set)... Proving elusive so far :)
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on
reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable
set)... Proving elusive so far :)
reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot?I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis
server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs envvariable set)... Proving elusive so far :)
I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works out, becauseI have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
I am running as a VM via VirtualBox and barely restart unless needed forupdates. I started out running as a daemon but I enjoy
seeing the real time messages output -- especially while I am in the processof configuring with other message networks at the
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on
reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable
set)... Proving elusive so far :)
Trying to understand why one might not want to run a daemon as a daemon. Why would you want to do this?
I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup from the
same bash script.
On 11 Jun 2019 at 11:43a, Alpha pondered and said...
reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" fr
As a Windows user I can't do it any other way but I really like being
able to see what MIS is doing so when I run stuff on my Raspberry Pi I also opt to do the same thing as you :)
What's your init system?
Re: Re: Local users?
By: LockeDown to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 2019 12:32 pm
I am running as a VM via VirtualBox and barely restart unless needed foupdates. I started out running as a daemon but I enjoy
seeing the real time messages output -- especially while I am in the prof configuring with other message networks at the
Does it not produce this information as a log that you can watch with tail? --- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
I have mystic starting as daemon @reboot, and if I wanna see what's
going on I use a great util called "multitail" which you can get via normal repo like "apt install multitail" and then use it like;
multitail /mystic/logs/mutil.20190611.log /mystic/logs/mis.log /mystic/logs/fidopoll.log
multitail /mystic/logs/mutil.20190611.log /mystic/logs/mis.log /mystic/logs/fidopoll.log
Just installed this -- works great, thanks for the tip!
Re: Re: Local users?
By: maskreet to Alpha on Tue Jun 11 2019 03:18 pm
I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works out, becI have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
Had to? Is your init broken? Not sure how/why this is a thing, curious to hear more.
maskreet wrote to Alpha <=-
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on
reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" from crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable
set)... Proving elusive so far :)
I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
from the same bash script.
maskreet wrote to Alpha <=-
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)
I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
from the same bash script.
Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?
On 06-10-19 21:20, Alpha wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Same reason I run BBSs. :)
For sure! I just spent a week of "free" time fully installing and configuring Mystic in Win64, Win32, Linux32 and Linux64 (along with Synchronet and WWIV) before finding what was "right" for me (linux64).
And I don't regret it, especially since my junk 10 year old Toshiba Satellite now has new life as a Xubuntu Mystic BBS server!
maskreet wrote to Alpha <=-
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" fr crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)
I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
from the same bash script.
Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?
Cool. I was sold on OS (Linux), but couldn't decide which BBS package, so I have Synchronet, Mystic and Magicka all running. :)
apam wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)
I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
from the same bash script.
Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?
depends on if your distribution has support for rc.local.
OpenSUSE for example has done away with it, I had to make a
systemd unit to start my BBS.
maskreet wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" fr crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)
I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup
from the same bash script.
Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?
Yeah, yeah. =) There's a level of control I can do easier with
bash scripts than I can with system startup scripts. I can pick
what's running in what order, run it all at once or until
something is finished, run a timer between execution, etc.
Plus, I know DOS batch scripting better, and bash scripting seems
to mirror that better for me. It's a preference, I'm not saying
other ways don't work well for other peeps. =)
depends on if your distribution has support for rc.local.
OpenSUSE for example has done away with it, I had to make a
systemd unit to start my BBS.
Wow, didn't even realize that was happening. Yet another reason
to avoid using systemd...
maskreet wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Nice. Did you figure out how to launch the mystic server (mis) on reboot? I'm trying to run it NOT as a daemon but as "./mis server" crontab @reboot in a terminal window (with bysticbbs env variable set)... Proving elusive so far :)
I had to run it at boot in cron from a bash script. Whic works
out, because I have a bunch of other stuff set to run at startup from the same bash script.
Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?
Yeah, yeah. =) There's a level of control I can do easier with
bash scripts than I can with system startup scripts. I can pick what's running in what order, run it all at once or until
something is finished, run a timer between execution, etc.
OK, I get that, sort of. In all fairness, though, "rc.local" *IS*
a bash script, and runs after all other startup scripts have
finished. I don't see any loss of control there.
Why would you want to do this?Trying to understand why one might not want to run a daemon as a daemon.
Mystic's mis server can be run as a daemon in the background or in theforground so you get a realtime display of
events/users/tossing/scanning/mail sessions. The background daemon is notavailable in the windows version.
Synchronet has a similar (but different) feature. You can see what'shappening in real time if your terminal server is not
daemonized in sbbs.ini.
I am sure it does but I prefer to see it right on the terminal as it happensand can easily see who is connected in the same
terminal.
Well, not *had*, but it was easier to figure out how to get a bunch of stuffrunning from a single bash script on startup than
it was messing with initd. One cron job to start it, one bash script to runa bunch of other stuff. =)
Sure, but I'm curious as to why this person is managing their daemonization th >way they are (running from cron at startup).
With synchro, you can follow the logs and there's console utilities to watch things from various angles. Running without daemonizing is good as a test
but doesn't serve much or any practical purpose that I'm aware of when running it long term.
ryan wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Wow, didn't even realize that was happening. Yet another reason
to avoid using systemd...
Huh? Systemd init scripts are very simple, and also very
powerful, and most of the common distros in the hands of desktop
linux users these days include it. Not trying to start a systemd
vs <other init system> thing here, just wasn't really following
your logic.
maskreet wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Ummmm.... /etc/rc.local ?
Yeah, yeah. =) There's a level of control I can do easier with
bash scripts than I can with system startup scripts. I can pick what's running in what order, run it all at once or until
something is finished, run a timer between execution, etc.
OK, I get that, sort of. In all fairness, though, "rc.local" *IS*
a bash script, and runs after all other startup scripts have
finished. I don't see any loss of control there.
True, but I also have an easier time remembering where my local
bash scripts are, as a subdirectory off /mystic. I am a long-time Microsoft DOS/Windows user, so it's just easier for me. I think
all of the different ways you can run startup stuff in Linux kind
of throws me for a loop, so I just do what's easier for me, is
all.
By: LockeDown to Va7aqd on Tue Jun 11 2019 03:39 pm
I am sure it does but I prefer to see it right on the terminal as it haand can easily see who is connected in the same
terminal.
I could see that being handy for debug purposes, but not sure what
purpose it would serve long term. I can see from the responses already though that the sysop is interested in learning more about daemonizing.
Very good, and no worries! It's one of the beauties of using
Linux - CHOICE!
<THUMBS-UP>
On 06-10-19 21:20, Alpha wrote to Vk3jed <=-
And I don't regret it, especially since my junk 10 year old Toshiba Satellite now has new life as a Xubuntu Mystic BBS server!
On 06-12-19 09:24, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've been running my BBS on Synchronet, but I've been curious about Mystic, which also seems like a popular BBS package. I don't really
know much about Magicka.
Since my BBS is already working well with Synchronet, I'm not sure it would be worth spending a lot of time setting up another BBS package..
I also have mods I've written for Synchronet which I still maintain, so
I don't plan on switching to another BBS package right now. :)
On 06-12-19 11:20, Dan Clough wrote to maskreet <=-
OK, I get that, sort of. In all fairness, though, "rc.local" *IS*
a bash script, and runs after all other startup scripts have
finished. I don't see any loss of control there.
On 06-12-19 16:52, ryan wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Huh? Systemd init scripts are very simple, and also very powerful, and most of the common distros in the hands of desktop linux users these
days include it. Not trying to start a systemd vs <other init system> thing here, just wasn't really following your logic.
On 06-12-19 12:01, Va7aqd wrote to maskreet <=-
Odd... I would figure learning init/systemd enough to have a process started at
boot would be a good hurdle to climb as there's so many other benefits
to knowing it. I personally wouldn't ever use cron for a startup task,
as that's what init systems are designed to handle properly, while cron
is supposed to run periodic/timed tasks (hence the name).
On 06-12-19 13:04, Al wrote to Va7aqd <=-
It's a choice an operator needs to make. When setting things up in
Mystic you may need to shutdown and restart mis. It's easy to do that
from the mis screen (it's not much harder when daemonized) and you can
see if the changes you made are working as expected.
On 06-12-19 14:59, Dan Clough wrote to ryan <=-
I also don't want to get into a systemd vs <others> thing... but I
will say this: some Linux users (including me) don't *want* some
"master control" wizard-thing deciding how my system should boot
up. It may be fine for users who just want to boot up a computer
and start using it, not caring what's "under the hood", but that's
not true for all. It certainly takes away much of the control of
how you want your system to work, basically letting "someone else"
decide these things for you. I don't like that. It also has some
well documented security issues.
Maybe it's kinda like the difference between driving a
self-driving Prius, and a 1970 Chevelle SS. ;-)
In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.
It's a choice an operator needs to make. When setting things up in
Mystic you may need to shutdown and restart mis. It's easy to do that
from the mis screen (it's not much harder when daemonized) and you can
see if the changes you made are working as expected.
I'm an old Linux hand, and running as a daemon is just a habit for me. :)
In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.
Slackware is a good, solid distro, but how easy is it to manage packages these
days? I need something that is easy, like apt or yum.
For me, the hardest part is finding usable information on managing systemd. I don't handle fragmented information well, and that's all
I've found on systemd. :(
maskreet wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Very good, and no worries! It's one of the beauties of using
Linux - CHOICE!
<THUMBS-UP>
Definitely. I'm almost at the point now where I'm about ready to
just junk my Windows partition and use exclusively Linux. I
repartitioned about six month ago to dual-boot an actual Linux
install instead of messing with various VMs over the years. Oh,
and playing around with lower powered setups, like on my RPi and
a custom install on an older Samsung phone.
I really like it a lot. My biggest hurdle was not being able to
play stuff on the Linux setup for Windows games, but Lutris and
WINE seem to be doing the job just fine. So yeah, I might just
copy over what I want to save from my Windows paritition and just
erase it completely, expand my Linux partition.
Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-
OK, I get that, sort of. In all fairness, though, "rc.local" *IS*
a bash script, and runs after all other startup scripts have
finished. I don't see any loss of control there.
_IF_ it exists. Some distros using systemd have done away with
rc.local. On these, you'd need to create a systemd unit just to
run that script, before you can use it.
Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-
One thing I didn't get about systemd, or more correctly one of
the philosophes behind it is that everything starts in parallel
as much as possible, which SystemV was always an ordered
sequential process. I always preferred the latter. The former
reminds me too much of Windows, where you get a login prompt,
long before the system is fully up and running, which is highly
annoying, because I'm a login and get going kinda guy. SystemV
suits me better that way.
But systemd is here, and sooner or later, I need to learn it.
Maybe it's kinda like the difference between driving a
self-driving Prius, and a 1970 Chevelle SS. ;-)
Possibly. :)
In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.
Slackware is a good, solid distro, but how easy is it to manage
packages these days? I need something that is easy, like apt or
yum.
Definitely. I'm almost at the point now where I'm about ready to
just junk my Windows partition and use exclusively Linux. I repartitioned about six month ago to dual-boot an actual Linux install instead of messing with various VMs over the years. Oh,
and playing around with lower powered setups, like on my RPi and
a custom install on an older Samsung phone.
I really like it a lot. My biggest hurdle was not being able to
play stuff on the Linux setup for Windows games, but Lutris and
WINE seem to be doing the job just fine. So yeah, I might just
copy over what I want to save from my Windows paritition and just erase it completely, expand my Linux partition.
Excellent! I made the move to Linux many years ago and am very
pleased I did. I will admit to having a strong "gaming" machine
still running Windows 7, for when I feel the need to play some of
the old-skool shooter games I like (RTCW, Half-Life2, Quake, some others). Some of that can be done on Steam under Linux these
days, but not all. I don't like VMs/Wine for such things. But
99% of my time is spent in Linux, mostly on a laptop these days.
I think you'll be happy to make the switch, virtually eliminates
the worry about virus-type problems. Linux is quite easy to use
these days. Go for it!
Yeah I just started using Mystic over a month ago and setting up with newnetworks this week especially it has been helpful to
easily see the activity log including binkp crash connections /etc.other tabs and at a point where I was more hands
So for now keeping it simple -- if I wasn't constantly configuring things in
off then loading it up as daemon again in the background will make moresense for me.
I hope you're finding things fun along the way anyway!
I sometimes use cron, but always in a "check then run" setup. This saves mehaving both a startup script/systemd unit or
whatever, as well as the watchdog script from cron. I still need to learnmore about systemd, but that's another issue.
ryan wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Wow, didn't even realize that was happening. Yet another reason
to avoid using systemd...
Huh? Systemd init scripts are very simple, and also very
powerful, and most of the common distros in the hands of desktop
linux users these days include it. Not trying to start a systemd
vs <other init system> thing here, just wasn't really following
your logic.
I also don't want to get into a systemd vs <others> thing... but I
will say this: some Linux users (including me) don't *want* some
"master control" wizard-thing deciding how my system should boot
up. It may be fine for users who just want to boot up a computer
and start using it, not caring what's "under the hood", but that's
not true for all. It certainly takes away much of the control of
how you want your system to work, basically letting "someone else"
decide these things for you. I don't like that. It also has some
well documented security issues.
Maybe it's kinda like the difference between driving a
self-driving Prius, and a 1970 Chevelle SS. ;-)
In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.
On 06-13-19 12:23, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I always did to but I have to admit the mis screen is a nice thing to
have at times.
On 06-13-19 12:25, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-hese
In case you care, I use Slackware, and have for 20 years.
Slackware is a good, solid distro, but how easy is it to manage packages
days? I need something that is easy, like apt or yum.
Slackware has easy package management, but it doesn't track
dependencies at all
so that is something the OP needs to make sure of themselves.
On 06-14-19 00:21, ryan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
For me, the hardest part is finding usable information on managing systemd. I don't handle fragmented information well, and that's all
I've found on systemd. :(
Fair. I've used it for service management, not to mention for booting
and actually speeding up my boot process. But I understand why a lot of
people don't like it...I was one of them. In practice, it's fine (for
me) and seemingly everyone that's made the switch hasn't switched back.
On 06-13-19 19:25, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yes, I recently (in this thread) learned that some (all?) systems
using systemd don't have such a thing as rc.local. Seems quite
foreign to me, and I don't (and won't) use such a system.
On 06-13-19 19:31, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Agreed. I'm not in that big of a hurry to have it boot up. I
know about SystemV methods, but actually Slackware uses the "BSD"
method of initializing, which is different but certainly more
similar to SysV than to systemd.
But systemd is here, and sooner or later, I need to learn it.
Maybe. I don't really feel the need to do so myself. I don't
make my living with Linux so don't *HAVE* to be "well-rounded" in
all the various schemas. I know what I use, and that's enough for
me. I certainly have booted up and tried MANY other distros,
including systemd ones, and if you're not trying to tweak and
control things too much, they all work fine.
Slackware is easy once you understand it, but certainly more
involved than apt/yum/yast/etc... You can come fairly close to
that level of automation if you want to, although I don't. One of
the best ways to add packages is via a website called
slackbuilds.org, where you download source code and specialized
scripts that compile the program and package it up for easy
installation. Works really well.
On 06-13-19 21:50, Va7aqd wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I could rag on systemd all day for all of the horrible things they're doing with it beyond being an init/boot manager, and introducing
security holes that more mature software (and single-task software!)
isn't dealing with. However, that said, it does do init/boot stuff
'ok' and there's no need for an external watchdog on your daemon... the unit file can have:
Restart=on-failure
RestartSec=30
For example.
I presume this is along the lines of what you are doing a la watchdog scripts?
Joacim Melin wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Wow, didn't even realize that was happening. Yet another reason
to avoid using systemd...
Huh? Systemd init scripts are very simple, and also very
powerful, and most of the common distros in the hands of desktop
linux users these days include it. Not trying to start a systemd
vs <other init system> thing here, just wasn't really following
your logic.
I also don't want to get into a systemd vs <others> thing... but I
will say this: some Linux users (including me) don't *want* some
"master control" wizard-thing deciding how my system should boot
up. It may be fine for users who just want to boot up a computer
and start using it, not caring what's "under the hood", but that's
not true for all. It certainly takes away much of the control of
how you want your system to work, basically letting "someone else"
decide these things for you. I don't like that. It also has some
well documented security issues.
I do appreciate how FreeBSD handles these things through
/etc/rc.conf where you
set what processes that will start on boot, as well as a lot of
other settings. It's all there in one simple file, very easy to
work with.
Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-
Yes, I recently (in this thread) learned that some (all?) systems
using systemd don't have such a thing as rc.local. Seems quite
foreign to me, and I don't (and won't) use such a system.
Seems to be quite common these days.
Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-
But systemd is here, and sooner or later, I need to learn it.
Maybe. I don't really feel the need to do so myself. I don't
make my living with Linux so don't *HAVE* to be "well-rounded" in
all the various schemas. I know what I use, and that's enough for
me. I certainly have booted up and tried MANY other distros,
including systemd ones, and if you're not trying to tweak and
control things too much, they all work fine.
Yeah, the distros I use tend to use systemd, so learning it will
be advantageous.
Slackware is easy once you understand it, but certainly more
involved than apt/yum/yast/etc... You can come fairly close to
that level of automation if you want to, although I don't. One of
the best ways to add packages is via a website called
slackbuilds.org, where you download source code and specialized
scripts that compile the program and package it up for easy
installation. Works really well.
And uninstallation, if necessary? I have to avoid manual
intervention as much as possible (not entirely possible, because
I always have to compile some things from source).
I thinbk that's more a case of systemd is the way most distros are
going. I still need useful information on how to use systemd,
preferably from first principles, rather than rote memory of commands
(my memory is far more efficient when I have a set of rules to follow). Sadly, I've seen little useful documentation on working with systemd. :(
can't get an overall model of systemd, justRestart=on-failureThat is cool, but the issue is the lack of useful (to me) documentation. I
RestartSec=30
fragments, and that does my head in. :(
On 06-14-19 09:09, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-
So are fancy coffee/latte/frappe/cappachino/foo-foo drinks. I
don't like them, either. ;-)
On 06-14-19 09:15, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-
One caveat with this package management system is that there is no dependency checking/handling (as I believe somebody else in this
thread mentioned). You are expected to take care of that on your
own. If one uses the Slackbuilds.org website to get
source/scripts, the site tells you about any dependencies needed,
so you can get/build them the same way. Not really too hard.
On 06-14-19 17:09, ryan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Have you checked out the arch forums by chance? That's where I educated myself on the basics. Now I am comfortable writing my own service definitions (or init scripts or whatever we call them), which is
basically the extent of how far I expect to delve into the workings of
an init system anyway :)
On 06-14-19 10:15, Va7aqd wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Docs, schmocks! Who needs 'em! Aren't you reading the mailing list,
blog, news page, RSS feed, slack and IRC channels and git commits? Man, it's so easy! haha.
The most egregious pile of crap I've heard regarding systemd is when
they decided to simply change behaviour of login/logout handling to
kill all that user's processes upon logout. IIRC, the 'new default' had
to be reverted to a configurable option, but still, they really have no idea what they're doing with system administration and shouldn't be
trying to mess with so many parts of a system.
The security issues are pretty bad, too, but wouldn't be occurring if they'd just stick to being an init.
The security issues are pretty bad, too, but wouldn't be occurring if they'd V>just stick to being an init.
Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-
One caveat with this package management system is that there is no dependency checking/handling (as I believe somebody else in this
thread mentioned). You are expected to take care of that on your
own. If one uses the Slackbuilds.org website to get
source/scripts, the site tells you about any dependencies needed,
so you can get/build them the same way. Not really too hard.
That's a biggie for me, anything that adds hoops or fiddly bits
is not good. Package management was the reason I moved from
Slackware to Red Hat over 20 years ago. I liked that Slack was a
solid distro, but found it a pain to manage.
Well, your needs from an init system are the same as mine, but not a goodsource of info for me. Me and web forums don't get
along. :(
On 06-14-19 22:56, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-
It's all a matter of perspective, I think. The package management philosophy of Slackware, the stability, and the history (oldest
surviving Linux distro) attracts me to it. It's the most Unix-ish
of distros and I like that. I also like the wide diversity and
choices that the Linux world offers through other distros. Seems
like a win-win to me - freedom and choice!
On 06-15-19 09:05, Va7aqd wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Re: Re: Local users?
By: Vk3jed to ryan on Sat Jun 15 2019 06:45 am
Well, your needs from an init system are the same as mine, but not a good
source of info for me. Me and web forums don't get
along. :(
Heh, mind if I ask about this? I know the feel of a BBS message base is quite different, but in a general sense, a web forum really isn't much different than
what we're doing here, is it?
Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-
It's all a matter of perspective, I think. The package management philosophy of Slackware, the stability, and the history (oldest
surviving Linux distro) attracts me to it. It's the most Unix-ish
of distros and I like that. I also like the wide diversity and
choices that the Linux world offers through other distros. Seems
like a win-win to me - freedom and choice!
Yep, agree totally, and that's what Linux is great for. :) My
needs for package management are fairly high, not because I don't
know how to do things more manually, but if anything, because I
have major issues with anything fiddly, especially when it's of a "routine" nature (I also hated and had issues with backups too -
a task better automated and/or delegateed to someone else!). :)
quite different, but in a general sense, a webHeh, mind if I ask about this? I know the feel of a BBS message base is
forum really isn't much different than
what we're doing here, is it?
In concept no, in accessing, yes.
1. MUCH slower
2. Clumsier user interface, especially when hopping from board to board orthread to thread
a modem, the increased transfer times wouldn't be a major issue, becausethey occur in one block (when transferring mail
packets), not in little 5-10 second bits like web forums tend to.
On 06-15-19 22:18, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Understood... I don't mind most of the fiddling, although it can
get tedious and easy to put off. I tend to put things off for a
while and then do a lot of it at once. I have noticed that I'm
less likely to fiddle nowadays compared to 10-15 years ago. For a
long time I tweaked everything quite a bit, including custom
kernel configs, which I rarely do any more. Wisdom, I call it.
;-)
... I avoid all sports which cannot be played while holding a hot dog.
On 06-15-19 22:07, Va7aqd wrote to Vk3jed <=-
1. MUCH slower
OK, I'm not debating this, but I wonder why this is. I find that
reading web forums turns out to generally be slower for me as well, and I'm not sure if it's because of the information overload, visual
clutter, or what. You'd think, when you can load an entire thread, or
say 10 posts of a thread, on to a
single page and scroll through all at your own reading speed that it would be faster overall than the one-message-at-a-time on the BBS (and possibly jumping between threads as you go through in numeric order).
2. Clumsier user interface, especially when hopping from board to board or
thread to thread
That one's debatable, I think - I think generall works faster on a web forum for me.
a modem, the increased transfer times wouldn't be a major issue, because
they occur in one block (when transferring mail
packets), not in little 5-10 second bits like web forums tend to.
This, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. I'm actually quite tired, so if it's really obvious, please forgive me.
On 06-15-19 22:18, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Understood... I don't mind most of the fiddling, although it can
get tedious and easy to put off. I tend to put things off for a
while and then do a lot of it at once. I have noticed that I'm
less likely to fiddle nowadays compared to 10-15 years ago. For a
long time I tweaked everything quite a bit, including custom
kernel configs, which I rarely do any more. Wisdom, I call it.
;-)
My issue is suspected ADHD. I've always had a severe intolerance of tedious
activities. I get picked up by a screening test, but haven't followed
it up.
... I avoid all sports which cannot be played while holding a hot dog.
I don't. :P
On 06-17-19 07:09, Joacim Melin wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Speaking from own experience you have to learn to work around that. Routines, routines and more routines is what keeps the life of an ADHD person in check, with or without the help of medication (I've tried
both and have been on medication for 10+ years now).
The older you get the easier it gets to deal with these things as
younger persons tend to be more impulsive and have a hard time dealing with those impulses.
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