• Linux Distros

    From Black Panther@21:1/186 to All on Sat Feb 23 01:48:44 2019
    Hi All,

    I know this topic will generate some discussions... :)

    Lately, I've been having some issues with the system that is running Castle Rock BBS. Originally, it was Ubuntu running Unity, then Gnome, but I was
    having some issues with Gnome, and the resources is was using. I then changed the environment to Mate, and that seemed to be running smoothly until this week. I have and to cold boot the system twice in the last 4 days, as I could do nothing to regain any type of control of the it. One time, I couldn't even get the screen saver to turn off, and the other, I could only move the
    mouse...

    So, I've been thinking about changing to something a bit different. I was looking at some of the light-weight distros available, and stumbled across
    one called AntiX, which is Debian based.

    I've been running it on a live-USB flash drive on this laptop for the last
    few days, and I'm really liking the look and feel of it.

    I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried AntiX.

    Right now, I've got a complete /home/ directory backup happening of the BBS system. Once that is completed, I will probably have the system down for awhile, so that I can install the new distro. It probably won't happen until tomorrow some time though, as I don't think I'll be able to stay awake long enough tonight to complete this task... :) My butt's already dragging on the ground...


    ---

    Black Panther(RCS)
    a.k.a. Dan Richter
    Sysop - Castle Rock BBS
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    The sparrows are flying again....

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/17 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)
  • From apam@21:1/125 to Black Panther on Sat Feb 23 19:08:26 2019
    I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried AntiX.

    I have, but it was a while ago. It wasn't too bad I thought.

    Right now, I've got a complete /home/ directory backup happening of
    the BBS system. Once that is completed, I will probably have the
    system down for awhile, so that I can install the new distro. It

    You could when you install the new distro, put the home directory on it's
    own partition (or disk), then you can reinstall distros and just not
    format the home partition, but set it up to mount on /home each time.

    Andrew

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: The Fat Sandwich - sandwich.hopto.org:2023 (21:1/125)
  • From toofargone@21:4/132 to Black Panther on Sat Feb 23 20:43:17 2019
    Have you thought about Gentoo? If you want minimal then you only need
    compile what you want and only include support for what you need...



    toofargone .:[fusion]:.
    telnet: telnet.fusionbbs.online:23
    ssh: telnet.fusionbbs.online:2222

    --- MagickaBBS v0.12alpha (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: Fusion BBS (21:4/132)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Black Panther on Sat Feb 23 06:24:28 2019
    On 22 Feb 2019, Black Panther said the following...

    I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried AntiX.


    Nope, but I'll look at it...

    Right now, I've got a complete /home/ directory backup happening of the BBS system. Once that is completed, I will probably have the system down for awhile, so that I can install the new distro. It probably won't
    happen until tomorrow some time though, as I don't think I'll be able to stay awake long enough tonight to complete this task... :) My butt's already dragging on the ground...


    I generally don't run a X on servers. It takes valuable resources and can
    cause issues. My favorite server distro is CentOS, followed by old school Debian. Both are pretty solid for servers.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/20 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Black Panther on Sat Feb 23 23:49:00 2019
    On 02-22-19 20:48, Black Panther wrote to All <=-

    Hi All,

    I know this topic will generate some discussions... :)

    Umm, silly question time: If this is the BBS machine, why do you need X? I'd run without X. :)


    ... I need accurate, brief, and non-redundant information.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Sun Feb 24 02:15:14 2019
    On 23 Feb 2019 at 06:49p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    Umm, silly question time: If this is the BBS machine, why do you need
    X?

    Silly answer time: cause it marks the spot.

    [runs away]

    Best, Paul

    --- E:avon@bbs.nz ------ W:bbs.nz ---
    --- K:keybase.io/avon --------------

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/23 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Fireball on Sun Feb 24 00:14:00 2019
    On 02-23-19 01:24, Fireball wrote to Black Panther <=-

    I generally don't run a X on servers. It takes valuable resources and

    Me either.

    can cause issues. My favorite server distro is CentOS, followed by old school Debian. Both are pretty solid for servers.

    My first preference these days is Debian, though I'm happy to use CentOS, if required for a particular application.


    ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Sun Feb 24 01:58:00 2019
    On 02-23-19 21:15, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Umm, silly question time: If this is the BBS machine, why do you need
    X?

    Silly answer time: cause it marks the spot.

    [runs away]

    Haha, I'm probably the last person in here that you'd get away with running away from! :D I like a good sprint race too! :D


    ... Breaded, deep fried, disgusting chicken-compound things.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From CyntaxX@21:4/113 to Avon on Sat Feb 23 10:12:56 2019
    On 23 Feb 2019, Avon said the following...

    On 23 Feb 2019 at 06:49p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    Umm, silly question time: If this is the BBS machine, why do you nee X?

    Silly answer time: cause it marks the spot.

    [runs away]

    *slow clap*

    Bravo, good sir, bravo! :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Digital Wurmhole | digitalwurmhole.ddns.net:2323 (21:4/113)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Black Panther on Sun Feb 24 02:53:19 2019
    I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried AntiX.

    Can't speak to AntiX as I've never heard of it, but good luck on the switch.

    +=====================+-+=======+----------------------------------------
    | *H:U:M:O:N:G:O:U:S* | | B:B:S | nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323 +=====================+-+=======+----------------------------------------

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (21:4/123)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Vk3jed on Sun Feb 24 03:05:23 2019
    I was thinking the same thing, but wasn't going to ask.

    X? I'd run without X. :)

    More to the point, why does a distro called anti-X have X?

    +=====================+-+=======+----------------------------------------
    | *H:U:M:O:N:G:O:U:S* | | B:B:S | nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323 +=====================+-+=======+----------------------------------------

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (21:4/123)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Avon on Sat Feb 23 15:01:41 2019
    On 23 Feb 2019, Avon said the following...

    Umm, silly question time: If this is the BBS machine, why do you nee X?

    Silly answer time: cause it marks the spot.

    [runs away]

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.... Thanks Avon, I needed the laugh!

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/22 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Vk3jed on Sat Feb 23 15:13:52 2019
    On 23 Feb 2019, Vk3jed said the following...

    can cause issues. My favorite server distro is CentOS, followed by ol school Debian. Both are pretty solid for servers.

    My first preference these days is Debian, though I'm happy to use
    CentOS, if required for a particular application.


    CentOS 7 has a nice set of repositories that I can use newer compilers on it. It comes with gcc/g++ 4.8.x, but with the scl repository, I can install and
    use gcc/g++ 7.x without having to change system level libraries.

    I ran into an issue where trying to upgrade from Debian 8 to Debian 9 on an OpenVZ VPS would fail because the OpenVZ shared host kernel is really old (2.x), and I'd end up with a franken distro. I ran into an issue where simply running "apt-get upgrade" on an Ubuntu 16.x distro broke the VPS.

    If I can ever convert everything to KVM VPSes, I'd prefer that much more because it doesn't share the system host kernel. Right now, I'm not
    financially able to.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/22 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Black Panther on Sat Feb 23 14:18:06 2019
    Black Panther wrote to All <=-

    Lately, I've been having some issues with the system that is running Castle Rock BBS. Originally, it was Ubuntu running Unity, then Gnome,
    but I was having some issues with Gnome, and the resources is was
    using. I then changed the environment to Mate, and that seemed to be running smoothly until this week. I have and to cold boot the system
    twice in the last 4 days, as I could do nothing to regain any type of control of the it. One time, I couldn't even get the screen saver to
    turn off, and the other, I could only move the mouse...

    Could it possibly be a hardware issue of some sort?

    Mike



    ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Immortal@21:1/185 to apam on Sat Feb 23 16:21:39 2019
    On 23 Feb 2019, apam said the following...

    You could when you install the new distro, put the home directory on it's own partition (or disk), then you can reinstall distros and just not format the home partition, but set it up to mount on /home each time.

    Hey thats a good idea!

    Immortal

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/20 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Lightning BBS -- lightningbbs.com:2400 (21:1/185)
  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to apam on Sat Feb 23 17:47:38 2019
    apam wrote to Black Panther <=-

    I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried AntiX.

    I have, but it was a while ago. It wasn't too bad I thought.

    What I like about it, other than being a much lighter distro, is the simplicity of it. I also like the fact that it doesn't use systemd. :)

    You could when you install the new distro, put the home directory on
    it's own partition (or disk), then you can reinstall distros and just
    not format the home partition, but set it up to mount on /home each
    time.

    That's not a bad idea. It would save a lot of headaches later on, if I did change distros again... Thank you.



    ---

    Black Panther
    A.K.A. - Dan Richter
    Sysop - Castle Rock BBS
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    The sparrows are flying again...


    ... The head nurse? Over there. The one with the dirty knees.

    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A43 2019/02/17 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)
  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to toofargone on Sat Feb 23 17:47:38 2019
    toofargone wrote to Black Panther <=-

    Have you thought about Gentoo? If you want minimal then you only need compile what you want and only include support for what you need...

    That is actually one that I haven't looked at yet. I would want to be able to test it out via usb drive before doing anything else. The one thing that I'd have to do, is learn things like package management, as I'm used to debian's apt-get style right now...

    Thank you. I'll make sure I take a look at it soon.



    ---

    Black Panther
    A.K.A. - Dan Richter
    Sysop - Castle Rock BBS
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    The sparrows are flying again...


    ... Confucius Say: A bird in hand makes hard to blow nose.

    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A43 2019/02/17 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)
  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to Fireball on Sat Feb 23 17:47:38 2019
    Fireball wrote to Black Panther <=-

    On 22 Feb 2019, Black Panther said the following...

    I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried AntiX.


    Nope, but I'll look at it...

    I've really been enjoying it... :)

    I generally don't run a X on servers. It takes valuable resources and
    can cause issues. My favorite server distro is CentOS, followed by old school Debian. Both are pretty solid for servers.

    I probably wouldn't either, but the system is used for other things where some type of windows manager is helpful. At least with AntiX, it doesn't use a Desktop Environment, but just a windows manager... The entire ISO is only 800MB, which I thought was nice... :)



    ---

    Black Panther
    A.K.A. - Dan Richter
    Sysop - Castle Rock BBS
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    The sparrows are flying again...


    ... "Scotty! Beam me aboard!" "Aye sir! Will a 2x4 do?"

    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A43 2019/02/17 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)
  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to Vk3jed on Sat Feb 23 17:47:38 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Black Panther <=-

    Umm, silly question time: If this is the BBS machine, why do you need
    X? I'd run without X. :)

    I would, but I do use that system for other things. It just makes it easier for me... :)

    ...and it's not a silly question. :)



    ---

    Black Panther
    A.K.A. - Dan Richter
    Sysop - Castle Rock BBS
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    The sparrows are flying again...


    ... And now, More music and Les Nessman

    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A43 2019/02/17 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)
  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to Avon on Sat Feb 23 17:47:38 2019
    Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Umm, silly question time: If this is the BBS machine, why do you need
    X?

    Silly answer time: cause it marks the spot.

    That's why I never really understood algebra. The teacher always wanted the students to find his X. His ex is gone! Deal with it! Then they want to know Y. I don't know why his ex left him! lol



    ---

    Black Panther
    A.K.A. - Dan Richter
    Sysop - Castle Rock BBS
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    The sparrows are flying again...


    ... I'm in search of myself. Have you seen me anywhere?

    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A43 2019/02/17 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)
  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to Vk3jed on Sat Feb 23 17:47:38 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Avon <=-

    Umm, silly question time: If this is the BBS machine, why do you need
    X?

    Silly answer time: cause it marks the spot.

    [runs away]

    Haha, I'm probably the last person in here that you'd get away with running away from! :D I like a good sprint race too! :D

    I think Avon's got a bit of a lead on you though... ;)



    ---

    Black Panther
    A.K.A. - Dan Richter
    Sysop - Castle Rock BBS
    telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
    http://www.castlerockbbs.com
    The sparrows are flying again...


    ... Men, learn from Mr. Bobbit - sleep on your stomach!

    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A43 2019/02/17 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com (21:1/186)
  • From MeaTLoTioN@21:1/158 to Black Panther on Sun Feb 24 01:09:04 2019
    Hey =)

    I use Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop version, but I don't use gnome desktop, I use i3-gaps window manager which I personally find awesome. It is perfect for
    what I need.

    I was thinking about trying out Arch linux as now I am a lot more proficient
    in Linux in general I feel confident enough to be able to install a base OS of Arch and only install what I actually need.

    If you're interested in having a look at i3-gaps, and Arch too, there's a
    great youtube channel I follow which got me into i3-gaps. There's a guy
    called Luke Smith who has set up his own "riced" install and offers it up for anyone to use / customise... you can find it all here: https://larbs.xyz/

    The link to his i3-gaps video: https://youtu.be/-BOW61luzF4
    The link to his Arch install : https://youtu.be/4PBqpX0_UOc

    Even if you don't go down that route, it's definitely worth a watch anyway
    for some brain food!

    Would love to know what you and anyone else thinks about this =)

    ---
    |14Best regards,
    |11Ch|03rist|11ia|15n |11a|03ka |11Me|03aTLoT|11io|15N

    |07── |08[|10eml|08] |15ml@erb.pw |07── |08[|10web|08] |15www.erb.pw |07───┐ |07── |08[|09fsx|08] |1521:1/158 |07── |08[|11tqw|08] |151337:1/101 |07┬──┘ |07── |08[|12rtn|08] |1580:774/81 |07── |08[|14fdn|08] |152:250/5 |07───┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/10 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Quantum Wormhole, Ramsgate, UK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to nathanael on Sun Feb 24 17:03:00 2019
    On 02-23-19 22:05, nathanael wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I was thinking the same thing, but wasn't going to ask.

    X? I'd run without X. :)

    More to the point, why does a distro called anti-X have X?

    ROFL! :D

    Good point! :)


    ... If it walks out of your refrigerator, let it go.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Fireball on Sun Feb 24 17:25:00 2019
    On 02-23-19 10:13, Fireball wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    CentOS 7 has a nice set of repositories that I can use newer compilers
    on it. It comes with gcc/g++ 4.8.x, but with the scl repository, I can install and use gcc/g++ 7.x without having to change system level libraries.

    I remember having to fiddle around on CentOS 6 to do this, but I could do it without having to make massive changes to the system.

    I ran into an issue where trying to upgrade from Debian 8 to Debian 9
    on an OpenVZ VPS would fail because the OpenVZ shared host kernel is really old (2.x), and I'd end up with a franken distro. I ran into an issue where simply running "apt-get upgrade" on an Ubuntu 16.x distro broke the VPS.

    That is a bit of a corner case though. Once you're stuck with a particular kernel, upgrades are problematic.

    If I can ever convert everything to KVM VPSes, I'd prefer that much
    more because it doesn't share the system host kernel. Right now, I'm
    not financially able to.

    Bummer, KVM would be a better way.


    ... COFFEE.EXE Missing - Insert Cup, & Press A Key To Resume.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Black Panther on Sun Feb 24 17:29:00 2019
    On 02-23-19 12:47, Black Panther wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Vk3jed wrote to Black Panther <=-

    Umm, silly question time: If this is the BBS machine, why do you need
    X? I'd run without X. :)

    I would, but I do use that system for other things. It just makes it easier for me... :)

    OK, fair enough. But even then, you can simply run "startx when you need to and quit X when you're done, and run the BBS outside of X as a daemon. :)

    ...and it's not a silly question. :)

    :)


    ... A BAND AID?!?! I'm a doctor not a... Oh yeah...
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Black Panther on Sun Feb 24 17:30:00 2019
    On 02-23-19 12:47, Black Panther wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    [runs away]

    Haha, I'm probably the last person in here that you'd get away with running away from! :D I like a good sprint race too! :D

    I think Avon's got a bit of a lead on you though... ;)

    Hahaha yeah the swim might be tricky. :D


    ... I've got a memory for faces, but in this case I'll make an exception.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Black Panther on Sat Feb 23 16:10:00 2019
    Black Panther wrote to All <=-

    So, I've been thinking about changing to something a bit different. I
    was looking at some of the light-weight distros available, and stumbled across one called AntiX, which is Debian based.

    I haven't used AntiX, but I've been a huge fan of Lubuntu. Lubuntu uses
    LXDE and OpenBox, which is very lightweight but functional - it feels like
    old Gnome to me.

    On a 2 ghz single-core laptop, basic Lubuntu needed 192 MB at idle, and installs in 256 MB.

    Whichever you choose, LXDE and OpenBox might be worth a look.


    ... Take away the important parts
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org (21:4/122)
  • From nristen@21:1/161 to MeaTLoTioN on Sun Feb 24 13:43:05 2019
    MeaTLoTioN wrote to Black Panther <=-

    I use Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop version, but I don't use gnome desktop,
    I use i3-gaps window manager which I personally find awesome. It is perfect for what I need.

    I will have to look at i3-gaps.

    I personaly use Ubuntu 18.04 on my MacBook Pro from work. I installed the awesome wm which I prefer over gnome or any of the other common windows managers.

    I also have another older Lenovo laptop which runs Arch with Awesome as well.

    My son found a distro which comes with Awesome as the default called https://manjaro.org.

    If you are running the distro for the BBS, I would use a headless distro.

    All of the distros can boot into headless mode.

    ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: searchbbs.fsxnet.nz:34123 / SSH 2222 (21:1/161)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Vk3jed on Sun Feb 24 20:46:00 2019
    On 24 Feb 2019, Vk3jed said the following...

    I remember having to fiddle around on CentOS 6 to do this, but I could
    do it without having to make massive changes to the system.


    There are similar repos in CentOS 6. I don't have to make huge changes to CentOS 7, just add a couple of repos and BAM, upgraded compilers, PHP7, and project level MariaDB.

    I ran into an issue where trying to upgrade from Debian 8 to Debian 9 on an OpenVZ VPS would fail because the OpenVZ shared host kernel is really old (2.x), and I'd end up with a franken distro. I ran into an issue where simply running "apt-get upgrade" on an Ubuntu 16.x distro broke the VPS.

    That is a bit of a corner case though. Once you're stuck with a particular kernel, upgrades are problematic.


    This is true, but OpenVZ is used by every VPS hosting company. I'm going to guess it's because it's cheap and requires less resources? The corner is
    pretty big.

    If I can ever convert everything to KVM VPSes, I'd prefer that much more because it doesn't share the system host kernel. Right now, I'm not financially able to.

    Bummer, KVM would be a better way.


    Yes, yes it would. One of these days, I'd like to setup a colocated server
    with KVM, where I can deploy what I need and not worry about more monthly costs. It's been a goal for a long time, just haven't had the funds to do it.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/22 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Fireball on Mon Feb 25 22:26:00 2019
    On 02-24-19 15:46, Fireball wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    There are similar repos in CentOS 6. I don't have to make huge changes
    to CentOS 7, just add a couple of repos and BAM, upgraded compilers,
    PHP7, and project level MariaDB.

    OK, cool. Handy to know.

    This is true, but OpenVZ is used by every VPS hosting company. I'm
    going to guess it's because it's cheap and requires less resources? The corner is pretty big.

    I think mine is using KVM nowadays.

    If I can ever convert everything to KVM VPSes, I'd prefer that much more because it doesn't share the system host kernel. Right now, I'm not financially able to.

    Bummer, KVM would be a better way.


    Yes, yes it would. One of these days, I'd like to setup a colocated
    server with KVM, where I can deploy what I need and not worry about
    more monthly costs. It's been a goal for a long time, just haven't had
    the funds to do it.

    Hmm, you got a data centre? I'd imagine there's still be monthly costs for rack space, etc.


    ... Be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slower to become angry.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Vk3jed on Tue Feb 26 01:06:20 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Fireball <=-

    On 02-24-19 15:46, Fireball wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    This is true, but OpenVZ is used by every VPS hosting company. I'm
    going to guess it's because it's cheap and requires less resources? The corner is pretty big.

    I think mine is using KVM nowadays.

    Nice! I'm really not sure why KVM tends to be more expensive.

    If I can ever convert everything to KVM VPSes, I'd prefer that much more because it doesn't share the system host kernel. Right now, I'm not financially able to.

    Bummer, KVM would be a better way.


    Yes, yes it would. One of these days, I'd like to setup a colocated
    server with KVM, where I can deploy what I need and not worry about
    more monthly costs. It's been a goal for a long time, just haven't had
    the funds to do it.

    Hmm, you got a data centre? I'd imagine there's still be monthly costs for rack space, etc.

    There usually are fees and such associated with it, and it depends on the data center. I know people at 2 of the major ISP's in town. I could see if any of them know if they will colo a server. Not that I have the money right now, but it'd be good to know.

    Fireball


    ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A43 2019/02/22 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From deon@21:2/116.1 to Black Panther on Tue Feb 26 16:09:04 2019
    On 23 Feb 2019, Black Panther said the following...
    That's not a bad idea. It would save a lot of headaches later on, if I
    did change distros again... Thank you.

    If you are up for it, using docker would have the same approach. You store
    the "data" in a specific place (can be any place), and with the appropriate image that docker container can be moved from host to host, or if you upgrade your host, started on the same host after the upgrade.

    Installing docker is a one line command (from most distro repositories, or
    from docker.com) and then starting the container (with your data), is another one line command.

    The good thing here, is if your new host (or upgraded host), has any
    libraries that the app doesnt like (like newer versions of libraries that
    break backwards compatibility), that's OK, because the container is locked
    at the time of the build. It has all the dependencies it needs to run any any host of the same architecture (and doesnt need to be rebuilt on the new host).

    ...deon

    _--_|\ | Deon George
    / \ | Chinwag BBS - A BBS on a PI in Docker!
    \_.__.*/ |
    V | Coming from the 'burbs of Melbourne, Australia

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Chinwag | MysticBBS in Docker on a Pi! (21:2/116.1)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Fireball on Tue Feb 26 21:19:00 2019
    On 02-25-19 20:06, Fireball wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I think mine is using KVM nowadays.

    Nice! I'm really not sure why KVM tends to be more expensive.

    Dunno. Helps to know the guy running it. :D

    Hmm, you got a data centre? I'd imagine there's still be monthly costs for rack space, etc.

    There usually are fees and such associated with it, and it depends on
    the data center. I know people at 2 of the major ISP's in town. I could see if any of them know if they will colo a server. Not that I have the money right now, but it'd be good to know.

    Yeah, there's going to be fees, but no idea how much.


    ... I'm an optimist... I'm positive things are going to go wrong. ;)
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Vk3jed on Tue Feb 26 21:42:32 2019
    On 26 Feb 2019, Vk3jed said the following...

    I think mine is using KVM nowadays.

    Nice! I'm really not sure why KVM tends to be more expensive.

    Dunno. Helps to know the guy running it. :D


    It does, but I don't really know anyone who runs a VPS hosting business, so
    I'm generally stuck at full price, or discounts given on certain sites.

    I did a little research. Both KVM and OpenVZ are FLOSS. So I'm guessing the price difference is in the hardware requirements and/or support contracts.

    Hmm, you got a data centre? I'd imagine there's still be monthly cos for rack space, etc.

    There usually are fees and such associated with it, and it depends on the data center. I know people at 2 of the major ISP's in town. I cou see if any of them know if they will colo a server. Not that I have t money right now, but it'd be good to know.

    Yeah, there's going to be fees, but no idea how much.


    I've seen them as low as $20USD/mo, but that was also low bandwidth and
    slower connections. I can rent a baremetal server for around $35USD, with multiple IPv4 addresses, 8GB RAM and like 100GB SSD. I'd do it, but it's more than double the price of my current VPSes, and I'd have to deal with
    migration. lol! Perhaps when I'm back on my feet, I'll look at either colo or renting again.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/22 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Vorlon@21:1/195 to Fireball on Wed Feb 27 21:05:04 2019

    Hello Fireball!

    26 Feb 19 16:42, you wrote to Vk3jed:

    I did a little research. Both KVM and OpenVZ are FLOSS. So I'm
    guessing the price difference is in the hardware requirements and/or support contracts.

    KVM is hardware virtulation, so can run win based os's, as is like running the real thing. It can also run other os's (Ie: FreeBSD).
    OpenVZ is no longer supported, but can only run linux vm's, and uses the hosts's kernel.


    Vorlon


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair ---:- dragon.vk3heg.net -:--- (21:1/195)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Fireball on Wed Feb 27 18:27:00 2019
    On 02-26-19 16:42, Fireball wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I did a little research. Both KVM and OpenVZ are FLOSS. So I'm guessing the price difference is in the hardware requirements and/or support contracts.

    I'd imagine OpenVZ would save some RAM and maybe processing with its shared kernel model. KVM would require each guest environment to be complete and separate. That's my best guess, based on my understanding of the technologies.
    But from a guest sysadmin PoV, I'd prever KVM for most purposes, so I have a truly independent environment. Being tied to a specfic kernel can sometimes be an issue, and I have had package management issues on OpenVZ VPSs in the past, because I couldn't change the kernel to a version that worked with something else I wanted to run.

    Yeah, there's going to be fees, but no idea how much.


    I've seen them as low as $20USD/mo, but that was also low bandwidth and slower connections. I can rent a baremetal server for around $35USD,
    with multiple IPv4 addresses, 8GB RAM and like 100GB SSD. I'd do it,
    but it's more than double the price of my current VPSes, and I'd have
    to deal with migration. lol! Perhaps when I'm back on my feet, I'll
    look at either colo or renting again.

    Doesn't sound too bad, especially if you can sublease VPSs from your colo to recover some revenue, or if you can fully utilise it. IOW, way overkill for a BBS LOL. :)


    ... Activity is the politician's substitute for achievement.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Vorlon on Wed Feb 27 14:16:20 2019
    On 27 Feb 2019, Vorlon said the following...

    Hello Fireball!

    I did a little research. Both KVM and OpenVZ are FLOSS. So I'm guessing the price difference is in the hardware requirements and/or support contracts.

    KVM is hardware virtulation, so can run win based os's, as is like
    running the real thing. It can also run other os's (Ie: FreeBSD).
    OpenVZ is no longer supported, but can only run linux vm's, and uses the hosts's kernel.


    My VPS tech support says their OpenVZ support runs out at the end of the
    year. It looks like they haven't had active development since 2016.

    So from what I've read, OpenVZ uses containers which all rely on the host system's kernel virtualization. KVM, on the other hand, turns the server into
    a hypervisor that isolates the VM's into their own environment so you can run any OS on them. I believe it uses QEMU to help with this process.

    In a comparison I read, KVM takes more overhead, while OpenVZ takes less. So yes, KVM requires a beefier server to run, hence the price difference.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/22 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Vk3jed on Wed Feb 27 15:14:49 2019
    On 27 Feb 2019, Vk3jed said the following...

    I'd imagine OpenVZ would save some RAM and maybe processing with its shared kernel model. KVM would require each guest environment to be complete and separate. That's my best guess, based on my understanding
    of the technologies. But from a guest sysadmin PoV, I'd prever KVM for most purposes, so I have a truly independent environment. Being tied to
    a specfic kernel can sometimes be an issue, and I have had package management issues on OpenVZ VPSs in the past, because I couldn't change the kernel to a version that worked with something else I wanted to run.


    I installed an Ubuntu 16.x VPS with OpenVZ. Doing an "apt-get update" then "apt-get upgrade" broke the installation. I couldn't even ssh into it after that. I deleted the VPS, and replaced it with CentOS 7. Thankfully that one still works with the OpenVZ kernel.

    I've seen them as low as $20USD/mo, but that was also low bandwidth a slower connections. I can rent a baremetal server for around $35USD, with multiple IPv4 addresses, 8GB RAM and like 100GB SSD. I'd do it, but it's more than double the price of my current VPSes, and I'd have to deal with migration. lol! Perhaps when I'm back on my feet, I'll look at either colo or renting again.

    Doesn't sound too bad, especially if you can sublease VPSs from your
    colo to recover some revenue, or if you can fully utilise it. IOW, way overkill for a BBS LOL. :)


    It'd be way overkill for 1 BBS, yes. I have 8 VPS's with one host, and an additional VPS with another. I could bring them all under one server,
    probably using docker or KVM, and still have some room left for subleasing
    some VM's to help recoup costs.

    It might be fun once I get to that point. :)

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/22 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Fireball on Wed Feb 27 18:10:17 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Fireball to Vk3jed on Wed Feb 27 2019 10:14 am

    additional VPS with another. I could bring them all under one server, probably using docker or KVM, and still have some room left for subleasing some VM's to help recoup costs.

    I have thought of doing this for some time now, but then I think about support. I guess if you setup an online online, ticketed support type system.


    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Dmxrob on Wed Feb 27 18:27:22 2019
    On 27 Feb 2019, Dmxrob said the following...

    I have thought of doing this for some time now, but then I think about support. I guess if you setup an online online, ticketed support type system.


    Just make it clear what your ticket turnaround will be. Like 12 to 24 hours. I'm not saying I'd put it up for anyone to buy a VPS, but I'd offer a decent service to a select few for a decent price. Chances are, I'd know these
    people, and they'd be able to contact me offline if there was something wrong.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Fireball on Wed Feb 27 19:34:34 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Fireball to Dmxrob on Wed Feb 27 2019 01:27 pm

    I'm not saying I'd put it up for anyone to buy a VPS, but I'd offer a decent service to a select few for a decent price. Chances are, I'd know these people, and they'd be able to contact me offline if there was something

    I have an entire homelab setup with a 24-core, 128GB RAM (hoping to get that up to 256GB!), 20TB VM system running VMWare ESXi. Right now I am using next to no resources on it. I brought all my stuff "back in house" after the pipe to my house got so reliable and fast enough (1GB up and 250GB down) that I saw no reason to go on paying a 3rd party anymore (though, to be fair, my stuff is non-critical).


    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 01:36:32 2019
    On 27 Feb 2019, Dmxrob said the following...

    I have an entire homelab setup with a 24-core, 128GB RAM (hoping to get that up to 256GB!), 20TB VM system running VMWare ESXi. Right now I am using next to no resources on it. I brought all my stuff "back in
    house" after the pipe to my house got so reliable and fast enough (1GB
    up and 250GB down) that I saw no reason to go on paying a 3rd party anymore (though, to be fair, my stuff is non-critical).


    That's it, I'm moving to St. Louis! lol! That's a hella setup man! We can't even get reliable cable Internet here in Amarillo, and it's generally much slower than most other places I've lived.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Fireball on Thu Feb 28 02:23:05 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Fireball to Dmxrob on Wed Feb 27 2019 08:36 pm

    That's it, I'm moving to St. Louis! lol! That's a hella setup man! We can't even get reliable cable Internet here in Amarillo, and it's generally much slower than most other places I've lived.

    Very surprising. Isn't that AT&T territory? No fiber installs of any sort?

    We have Charter Spectrum up here -- and they have been pretty rock solid. Constantly investing in the network it seems.

    On a side note, my next homelab project is to setup an in-home VOIP system. We run an whole-house Airbnb and I'd like to get a private PBX setup for it so that our "guests" could do some magic by just picking up the phone (i.e., press "0" for the "front desk" which would be my phone). Figure if I can get it setup with my homelab then I could figure out how to VM/container it and then install it in the Airbnb.


    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Fireball on Thu Feb 28 22:08:00 2019
    On 02-27-19 10:14, Fireball wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I installed an Ubuntu 16.x VPS with OpenVZ. Doing an "apt-get update"
    then "apt-get upgrade" broke the installation. I couldn't even ssh into
    it after that. I deleted the VPS, and replaced it with CentOS 7. Thankfully that one still works with the OpenVZ kernel.

    My VPS has run the gamut of virtualisation. I'm sure it's now KVM, but in the past it has been on OpenVZ, VMware and at least one other virtualisation solution. :)

    It'd be way overkill for 1 BBS, yes. I have 8 VPS's with one host, and
    an additional VPS with another. I could bring them all under one
    server, probably using docker or KVM, and still have some room left for subleasing some VM's to help recoup costs.

    It might be fun once I get to that point. :)

    Sounds like going co-lo is a good option for you. :)


    ... Have you checked your smoke detector batteries & Fire Ext, LATELY?!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 14:42:34 2019
    On 27 Feb 2019, Dmxrob said the following...

    Very surprising. Isn't that AT&T territory? No fiber installs of any sort?


    AT&T is crap around here. Fiber? Naw, they're still after DSL installs. lol!
    I think some parts of the city are covered by U-verse, but it's still not all covered. The cable company is Suddenlink, which we affectionately call Suddenunlink. When it's working, it's really slow. It used to be better, so I wonder what happened.

    We have Charter Spectrum up here -- and they have been pretty rock solid. Constantly investing in the network it seems.


    I understand they're pretty good, despite the complaints I've read.

    On a side note, my next homelab project is to setup an in-home VOIP system. We run an whole-house Airbnb and I'd like to get a private PBX setup for it so that our "guests" could do some magic by just picking up the phone (i.e., press "0" for the "front desk" which would be my
    phone). Figure if I can get it setup with my homelab then I could
    figure out how to VM/container it and then install it in the Airbnb.


    An asterisk server would do that. Get a DTD trunk with a number, some cheap
    but decent VOiP phones or adapters, and you'd be all set to send/recieve
    real calls as well. I've dabbled in it... ;)

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Fireball on Thu Feb 28 16:09:13 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Fireball to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 2019 09:42 am

    AT&T is crap around here. Fiber? Naw, they're still after DSL installs. lol! I think some parts of the city are covered by U-verse, but it's still not all covered. The cable company is Suddenlink, which we affectionately call Suddenunlink. When it's working, it's really slow. It used to be better, so I wonder what happened.

    Suddenlink. They are the worst of the worst. Where we have our airbnb property at is Suddenlink and they are just pure crap. There we have to use AT&T DSL (no fiber yet).

    It amazes me in this day and age how far behind we are with broadband deployments in parts of the country. Even when costs for deployments continue to decline.


    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Vk3jed on Thu Feb 28 16:44:58 2019
    On 28 Feb 2019, Vk3jed said the following...

    My VPS has run the gamut of virtualisation. I'm sure it's now KVM, but
    in the past it has been on OpenVZ, VMware and at least one other virtualisation solution. :)


    That wouldn't have been Virtuozzo? I've had one of those before. I've run the gamut myself. I believe my last Windows VPS was KVM though.

    Sounds like going co-lo is a good option for you. :)


    Colo, or renting. Renting, if it breaks, they fix it. lol! Colo, I'd have to either get someone to go there and fix the server, go there and fix it myself, or have the DC ship it to me and I fix it, and ship it back, and then there
    are parts to be ordered. Renting might be a better option. :)

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 16:44:00 2019
    Dmxrob wrote to Fireball <=-

    It amazes me in this day and age how far behind we are with
    broadband deployments in parts of the country. Even when costs
    for deployments continue to decline.

    It's like anything else. If there is no profitable return on it,
    why would the broadband company do it? If there are only a
    handful of potential customers in a large open rural area, it
    simply is not a smart business decision. Makes sense if you think
    about it that way...



    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Dan Clough on Thu Feb 28 19:27:55 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Dan Clough to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 2019 11:44 am

    It amazes me in this day and age how far behind we are with
    broadband deployments in parts of the country. Even when costs
    for deployments continue to decline.

    It's like anything else. If there is no profitable return on it,
    why would the broadband company do it? If there are only a
    handful of potential customers in a large open rural area, it
    simply is not a smart business decision. Makes sense if you think
    about it that way...

    If we took that same approach with water, sewer, electric and telephone then we'd be stuck in the 1800s still. Broadband is as important as electricity nowadays.


    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 21:03:00 2019
    Dmxrob wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    It amazes me in this day and age how far behind we are with
    broadband deployments in parts of the country. Even when costs
    for deployments continue to decline.

    It's like anything else. If there is no profitable return on it,
    why would the broadband company do it? If there are only a
    handful of potential customers in a large open rural area, it
    simply is not a smart business decision. Makes sense if you think
    about it that way...

    If we took that same approach with water, sewer, electric and
    telephone then we'd be stuck in the 1800s still. Broadband is as important as electricity nowadays.

    Ummmm, no, it isn't. Not for most people (residentially) anyway.

    There are VAST stretches of land in the US that have NONE of the
    above services, for exactly the reason I gave above. My family
    owns large areas of property in New England, most of it is
    "un-improved" and we intend to keep it that way. Some of it does
    have telephone lines, but certainly no cell coverage. Yes, there
    are people who still turn on kerosene lamps at night, heat/cook
    with a woodstove, and go out to the Outhouse for bathroom breaks.
    I know many folks that live that way, and they'd not have it any
    other way.

    You don't actually think that water, sewer, electric, telephone,
    cable companies provide services because they "like" us, do you?



    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Dan Clough on Thu Feb 28 22:30:21 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Dan Clough to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 2019 04:03 pm

    Ummmm, no, it isn't. Not for most people (residentially) anyway.

    Yeah, we call those areas of the country "dead and dying" for a reason. When people grow up, they leave and never come back.

    Even in the middle of nowhere Missouri, when Anheuser-Busch wanted to open their Clydesdale ranch, they stated that it had to have fiber-optic connectivity (and they got it).

    Recent broadband advancements in Africa are turning that country around dramatically in terms of economy and opportunity.

    The people "who want it no other way" are typically older, retired people who are living in the past. The same people who will vote against any advancement in society or culture because "that's not how we have done it".

    No company is coming to an area without broadband access. No young adult is going to stay in an area without it. No community is going to flourish without it.

    That's just the facts of life. This isn't 1992 and dial-up AOL isn't "good enough".



    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 23:14:33 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Dmxrob to Fireball on Thu Feb 28 2019 11:09 am

    It amazes me in this day and age how far behind we are with broadband deployments in parts of the country. Even when costs for deployments continue to decline.

    Hey, removing net neutrality was supposed to drive INNOVATION and NEXT-GENERATION networking!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 23:15:57 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Dmxrob to Dan Clough on Thu Feb 28 2019 02:27 pm

    If we took that same approach with water, sewer, electric and telephone then we'd be stuck in the 1800s still. Broadband is as important as electricity nowadays.

    Not to mention the fact that for the better part of a century the telcos were given a monopoly over a nationwide infrastructure.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org (21:4/122)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Dmxrob on Fri Mar 1 02:25:00 2019
    Dmxrob wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Ummmm, no, it isn't. Not for most people (residentially) anyway.

    Yeah, we call those areas of the country "dead and dying" for a
    reason. When people grow up, they leave and never come back.

    "We"? You mean "you", I guess. You must have spent your whole
    life in a city and don't know much about anything else.

    Even in the middle of nowhere Missouri, when Anheuser-Busch
    wanted to open their Clydesdale ranch, they stated that it had to
    have fiber-optic connectivity (and they got it).

    That's a whole different scenario than what we're talking about.

    Recent broadband advancements in Africa are turning that country
    around dramatically in terms of economy and opportunity.

    Uh-huh.

    The people "who want it no other way" are typically older,
    retired people who are living in the past. The same people who
    will vote against any advancement in society or culture because
    "that's not how we have done it".

    LOL! "Living in the past". Again, you don't know much about
    rural folks, apparently. That's OK though. Believe it or not,
    not everyone in the country is looking to change the way they
    live. They're happy the way they are, and successful in their own
    ways. Might be different than what city-boys and "progressives"
    think, but that's OK too.

    No company is coming to an area without broadband access.

    Not everywhere is looking (or wanting) a company to come.

    No young adult is going to stay in an area without it.

    You might be wrong about that.

    No community is going to flourish without it.

    Definitely wrong about that. Small town and rural areas are
    flourishing as we speak.

    That's just the facts of life. This isn't 1992 and dial-up AOL
    isn't "good enough".

    Hahaha! I don't think AOL even exists any more, does it? You
    over-estimate the importance of the internet to many people.

    dmxrob = BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988

    Assuming that's true, you'd think you would be old enough to
    understand things better. Oh well. Carry on.




    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Fireball on Fri Mar 1 19:28:00 2019
    On 02-28-19 11:44, Fireball wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    That wouldn't have been Virtuozzo? I've had one of those before. I've
    run the gamut myself. I believe my last Windows VPS was KVM though.

    Yes, I have had a VM somewhere on Virtuozzo as well. Can't recall if it's my current VM, or one that's now defunct.

    Sounds like going co-lo is a good option for you. :)


    Colo, or renting. Renting, if it breaks, they fix it. lol! Colo, I'd
    have to either get someone to go there and fix the server, go there and fix it myself, or have the DC ship it to me and I fix it, and ship it back, and then there are parts to be ordered. Renting might be a better option. :)

    Renting is less fuss, but more regular ongoing costs. One to weight up. :)


    ... I got a new shadow. My last shadow wasn't doing what I was doing.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Fri Mar 1 19:55:00 2019
    On 02-28-19 11:44, Dan Clough wrote to Dmxrob <=-

    Dmxrob wrote to Fireball <=-

    It amazes me in this day and age how far behind we are with
    broadband deployments in parts of the country. Even when costs
    for deployments continue to decline.

    It's like anything else. If there is no profitable return on it,
    why would the broadband company do it? If there are only a
    handful of potential customers in a large open rural area, it
    simply is not a smart business decision. Makes sense if you think
    about it that way...

    The advantages of a government built network. At least the decisions made are not purely commercial in nature.


    ... Cats - the ultimate stress reliever
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Mar 1 04:27:28 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 2019 06:15 pm

    Not to mention the fact that for the better part of a century the telcos were given a monopoly over a nationwide infrastructure.

    However, that monopoly also gave us Universal Service - which meant that no matter where you wear, telephone service would be made available.


    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Dan Clough on Fri Mar 1 04:29:54 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Dan Clough to Dmxrob on Thu Feb 28 2019 09:25 pm

    Assuming that's true, you'd think you would be old enough to
    understand things better. Oh well. Carry on.

    I will indeed. Enjoying my fiber to the house and my choice of 3 different providers who are offering the service.




    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 1 04:32:28 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Vk3jed to Dan Clough on Fri Mar 01 2019 02:55 pm

    The advantages of a government built network. At least the decisions made are not purely commercial in nature.

    Amen. The "common good". Sometimes government can be a part of the solution.


    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From g00r00@21:1/108 to Dan Clough on Fri Mar 1 06:47:46 2019
    Yeah, we call those areas of the country "dead and dying" for a reason. When people grow up, they leave and never come back.

    "We"? You mean "you", I guess. You must have spent your whole
    life in a city and don't know much about anything else.

    I think its generally accepted that many rural areas are struggling quite a bit and its not an exclusive opinion of progressives. Our current president campaigned on that fact, and this administration is about as far away from progressive as you can get.

    Maybe you live in a rural utopia, but the area where I went to college has been hit pretty hard. The only thing keeping it from being a complete nightmare is the college itself because the students bring in money.

    There just aren't many jobs in the area outside of Walmart and restaurants and there are tons of dead retail spaces falling apart all over town. It wasn't like that in the 90s but manufacturing has moved out.

    LOL! "Living in the past". Again, you don't know much about
    rural folks, apparently. That's OK though. Believe it or not,
    not everyone in the country is looking to change the way they
    live. They're happy the way they are, and successful in their own

    Of course there is nothing wrong with living on your own land and being happy about what you're doing if you have the means to do so. But will your grandchildren be able to survive living the same way?

    Where do the jobs come from in a small coal mining town in 30 years if they vote against a renewable energy plant coming to town today? The coal is gone, now what? What do they do to get money to survive?

    Hahaha! I don't think AOL even exists any more, does it? You over-estimate the importance of the internet to many people.

    You've used the words "many" and "most" in your post here. Do you mean "many people in extremely rural areas?" If anything I think we have an over dependency on the Internet at this point.

    Over 90% of the population lives in urban areas, and I think very few people
    in urban people under the age of say 60 would think the Internet is not important to them. Many of us require access to e-mail at the least and a mobile device just to do our jobs, let alone a million other ways we use it every single day (people are literally addicted to social media).

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/27 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Sector 7 (21:1/108)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dmxrob on Sat Mar 2 01:09:00 2019
    On 02-28-19 23:32, Dmxrob wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    The advantages of a government built network. At least the decisions made are not purely commercial in nature.

    Amen. The "common good". Sometimes government can be a part of the solution.

    Agreed, though thre's this infatuation with private enterprise these days. But government can screw it up too lol.


    ... A fail-safe circuit will destroy others.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 1 13:34:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    It amazes me in this day and age how far behind we are with
    broadband deployments in parts of the country. Even when costs
    for deployments continue to decline.

    It's like anything else. If there is no profitable return on it,
    why would the broadband company do it? If there are only a
    handful of potential customers in a large open rural area, it
    simply is not a smart business decision. Makes sense if you think
    about it that way...

    The advantages of a government built network. At least the
    decisions made are not purely commercial in nature.

    Perhaps, but government control of some things can be a slippery
    slope as well. Not sure I'd want the government controlling my
    access to the internet, and content filtering, and.... such.




    ... I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Dmxrob on Fri Mar 1 13:36:00 2019
    Dmxrob wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Assuming that's true, you'd think you would be old enough to
    understand things better. Oh well. Carry on.

    I will indeed. Enjoying my fiber to the house and my choice of 3
    different providers who are offering the service.

    All right! I'm quite happy with my broadband service as well.
    Probably best that we leave it at that. Cheers.



    ... Bug free, cheap, on time, works. Pick two.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to g00r00 on Fri Mar 1 13:52:00 2019
    g00r00 wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    "We"? You mean "you", I guess. You must have spent your whole
    life in a city and don't know much about anything else.

    I think its generally accepted that many rural areas are
    struggling quite a bit and its not an exclusive opinion of
    progressives. Our current president campaigned on that fact, and
    this administration is about as far away from progressive as you
    can get.

    No argument from me on any of that, but that isn't really what we
    were talking about... It was that people "need" broadband access
    to survive/prosper. I maintain that not EVERYONE does.

    Maybe you live in a rural utopia,

    I don't. But I have, and know people who do.

    but the area where I went to
    college has been hit pretty hard. The only thing keeping it from
    being a complete nightmare is the college itself because the
    students bring in money.

    Yes, a common thing these days. But again, that is not being
    caused by lack of broadband internet access.

    There just aren't many jobs in the area outside of Walmart and
    restaurants and there are tons of dead retail spaces falling
    apart all over town. It wasn't like that in the 90s but
    manufacturing has moved out.

    Yes, that sucks indeed, and I have seen that as well. But what I
    was talking about was in reference to areas that have never had "manufacturing" and related issues. It was simply a claim that
    not everyone must have broadband access to the internet in order
    to be happy and prosper. That's all.

    LOL! "Living in the past". Again, you don't know much about
    rural folks, apparently. That's OK though. Believe it or not,
    not everyone in the country is looking to change the way they
    live. They're happy the way they are, and successful in their own

    Of course there is nothing wrong with living on your own land and
    being happy about what you're doing if you have the means to do
    so. But will your grandchildren be able to survive living the
    same way?

    Well, I don't do that, but (again) I know folks who do. That's a
    hard question to answer, but I think they would be able to, yes.

    Where do the jobs come from in a small coal mining town in 30
    years if they vote against a renewable energy plant coming to
    town today? The coal is gone, now what? What do they do to get
    money to survive?

    I don't know. I wasn't talking about that issue though.

    Hahaha! I don't think AOL even exists any more, does it? You over-estimate the importance of the internet to many people.

    You've used the words "many" and "most" in your post here. Do
    you mean "many people in extremely rural areas?" If anything I
    think we have an over dependency on the Internet at this point.

    Yes, that is what I meant, and I completely agree that we (those
    of us *NOT* living in extremely rural areas) have an extreme
    over-dependancy on the Internet.

    Over 90% of the population lives in urban areas, and I think very
    few people in urban people under the age of say 60 would think
    the Internet is not important to them.

    I think that percentage is not as high as that, but I completely
    agree (again) with your statement regarding the importance of the
    internet to *URBAN* people. I never said otherwise in previous
    post(s).

    Many of us require access
    to e-mail at the least and a mobile device just to do our jobs,
    let alone a million other ways we use it every single day (people
    are literally addicted to social media).

    Yep, and I am one of those people. I was simply trying to point
    out that not everybody is one of those people.

    Have a good one!



    ... Windows 3.1 - From the people who brought you EDLIN.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 1 14:03:03 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Vk3jed to Dmxrob on Fri Mar 01 2019 08:09 pm

    Agreed, though thre's this infatuation with private enterprise these days. But government can screw it up too lol.

    I know here in the USA we went from a "let's help everyone for the common good" society to a "I got mine, screw you" society.



    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From nristen@21:1/161 to Dan Clough on Fri Mar 1 16:46:49 2019
    There are VAST stretches of land in the US that have NONE of the
    above services, for exactly the reason I gave above. My family
    owns large areas of property in New England, most of it is
    "un-improved" and we intend to keep it that way. Some of it does
    have telephone lines, but certainly no cell coverage. Yes, there
    are people who still turn on kerosene lamps at night, heat/cook
    with a woodstove, and go out to the Outhouse for bathroom breaks.
    I know many folks that live that way, and they'd not have it any
    other way.

    Ah, some days that sounds so inviting... leave all the technology behind.

    ... I give up, what is the meaning of life?
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: searchbbs.fsxnet.nz:34123 / SSH 2222 (21:1/161)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Dmxrob on Fri Mar 1 14:29:00 2019
    Dmxrob wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    However, that monopoly also gave us Universal Service - which meant
    that no matter where you wear, telephone service would be made
    available.

    Oh, don't get me wrong - universal service is a great tool that wouldn't
    have happened through regular market forces. But the way the monopoly was
    (and is) wielded to coerce money and stifle competition is consistent with corporate ethics. Just Make Money.




    ... Do you have access to your previous configuration?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to g00r00 on Fri Mar 1 14:35:00 2019
    g00r00 wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I think its generally accepted that many rural areas are struggling
    quite a bit and its not an exclusive opinion of progressives. Our
    current president campaigned on that fact, and this administration is about as far away from progressive as you can get.

    Maybe you live in a rural utopia, but the area where I went to college
    has been hit pretty hard. The only thing keeping it from being a
    complete nightmare is the college itself because the students bring in money.

    Outside of the US, similar exoduses are happening. The UK is giving away
    farms to people willing to move to towns that have seen population drops as kids grow up, move away and don't come back.


    ... How does this work, is there an orientation?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to nristen on Fri Mar 1 14:45:00 2019
    nristen wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Ah, some days that sounds so inviting... leave all the technology
    behind.

    I worked at a company that offered sabbaticals every 5 years. After working non-stop at that and other companies for 20+ years, and effectively being on-call 24/7 for most of those years. I got my first sabbatical.

    The company was good at respecting sabbaticals, and recommended taking work email off of your phone. I spent a couple of weeks cross-training one of my techs to handle things when I was gone.

    I spent a week fixing things at my family's cabin in a remote area of the Sierra Nevada mountains - fixing some plumbing, doing cleanup work and splitting firewood. With no cell coverage and a land line. I bought
    newspapers. Didn't hear about memes or status updates. Kept a paper
    journal. It was wonderful.


    ... Would anyone want it?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org (21:4/122)
  • From nristen@21:1/161 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Mar 1 22:10:26 2019
    I spent a week fixing things at my family's cabin in a remote area of
    the Sierra Nevada mountains - fixing some plumbing, doing cleanup work
    and splitting firewood. With no cell coverage and a land line. I bought newspapers. Didn't hear about memes or status updates. Kept a paper journal. It was wonderful.


    That sounds wonderful!

    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: searchbbs.fsxnet.nz:34123 / SSH 2222 (21:1/161)
  • From nristen@21:1/161 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Mar 1 22:10:26 2019
    I think its generally accepted that many rural areas are struggling
    quite a bit and its not an exclusive opinion of progressives. Our
    current president campaigned on that fact, and this administration is about as far away from progressive as you can get.

    Maybe you live in a rural utopia, but the area where I went to college
    has been hit pretty hard. The only thing keeping it from being a
    complete nightmare is the college itself because the students bring in money.

    Outside of the US, similar exoduses are happening. The UK is giving
    away farms to people willing to move to towns that have seen population drops as kids grow up, move away and don't come back.

    Interesting... I would jump at a chance like that.

    I recently watched Mutiny on the Bounty and afterwards, I looked up the island of Pitcairn to see what I could find out about it online. They are very isolated and apparently send their kids to NZ for secondary schooling. Avon, can you confirm this?



    ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.51

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: searchbbs.fsxnet.nz:34123 / SSH 2222 (21:1/161)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to nristen on Fri Mar 1 21:24:45 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: nristen to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Mar 01 2019 05:10 pm

    Outside of the US, similar exoduses are happening. The UK is giving
    away farms to people willing to move to towns that have seen
    population drops as kids grow up, move away and don't come back.

    Interesting... I would jump at a chance like that.

    My wife is English - we're tempted to cash out our house in California and buy something in the English countryside when we retire. Or Costa Rica. Or Mexico...
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org (21:4/122)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to nristen on Fri Mar 1 23:49:00 2019
    nristen wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    There are VAST stretches of land in the US that have NONE of the
    above services, for exactly the reason I gave above. My family
    owns large areas of property in New England, most of it is
    "un-improved" and we intend to keep it that way. Some of it does
    have telephone lines, but certainly no cell coverage. Yes, there
    are people who still turn on kerosene lamps at night, heat/cook
    with a woodstove, and go out to the Outhouse for bathroom breaks.
    I know many folks that live that way, and they'd not have it any
    other way.

    Ah, some days that sounds so inviting... leave all the technology
    behind.

    Indeed. Good to do that every now and then, at least for a little
    while... :)




    ... A day without sunshine is like night.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to nristen on Sat Mar 2 14:24:45 2019
    I recently watched Mutiny on the Bounty and afterwards, I looked up the island of Pitcairn to see what I could find out about it online. They

    Visiting Pitcairn Island has been on my bucket list since I read the book in junior high. Problem is it's so bloody far from any place else, judging by Google Maps even the Google car hasn't been there.

    ╓─────────────────────╖ ╓───────╖ ╓─────────────────────────────────────╖
    *H·U·M·O·N·G·O·U·S* B·B·S nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    ╙─────────────────────╜ ╙───────╜ ╙─────────────────────────────────────╜

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (21:4/123)
  • From g00r00@21:1/108 to Dan Clough on Sat Mar 2 01:05:01 2019
    No argument from me on any of that, but that isn't really what we
    were talking about... It was that people "need" broadband access
    to survive/prosper. I maintain that not EVERYONE does.

    Gotcha. I jumped in a little late on this so I didn't read how the conversation started. Of course not everyone does, I agree with that.

    I don't. But I have, and know people who do.

    Yep there certainly are some rural areas that for some reason are doing well. Unfortunately not the area that I have ties with, and I don't really see a solution to the problems there. :(

    Yes, a common thing these days. But again, that is not being
    caused by lack of broadband internet access.

    Probably not often at least but I could see some companies needing to be able to adapt and get an online presence to survive. If they didn't have that infrastructure they would be forced to go somewhere else. Although I think if that was going to happen to an established company it already would have by now.

    "manufacturing" and related issues. It was simply a claim that
    not everyone must have broadband access to the internet in order
    to be happy and prosper. That's all.

    Well thats certainly true. Especially of the older generations. Kids that grow up only on Internet would probably lose their minds if they lost it lol.

    It makes my head spin to realize there is an entire grown generation of young adults who never lived without the Internet in their pocket, let alone Microwaves, mobile phones, and so on.

    I worry that we're going to end up with a generation of socially inept people because they're taught only how to interact with people online anonymously with no consequences. Although my parents probably said the same thing about my generation and the music we listened to ruining us so who knows.

    I think that percentage is not as high as that, but I completely
    agree (again) with your statement regarding the importance of the internet to *URBAN* people. I never said otherwise in previous
    post(s).

    Yep I just wasn't sure if you meant many people meaning everyone across our population, or just rural people. Understood.

    As far as population, its kind of interesting to think about it and I started reading Wikipedia. There is a chart there that lists every state and the percentage of people who are considered urban and it seems like 90% could be pretty close.

    My metro area where I live has about 10 times the population of the entire state of Wyoming crammed into an area a fraction of the size of the state.
    It kind of makes me want to drive through Wyoming someday to see the contrast in population.

    Yep, and I am one of those people. I was simply trying to point
    out that not everybody is one of those people.

    Agreed. I have to think that those that aren't trapped online are a dying breed though. I'm not even really active on social media but I somehow still find my way to be stuck in this online world with BBSes!

    Have a good one!

    You too!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/27 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Sector 7 (21:1/108)
  • From g00r00@21:1/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Mar 2 01:07:31 2019
    Outside of the US, similar exoduses are happening. The UK is giving away farms to people willing to move to towns that have seen population drops as kids grow up, move away and don't come back.

    Thats interesting. Are there examples of this working? Or do these families run a farm into the ground without having experience to do the work?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/27 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Sector 7 (21:1/108)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Sat Mar 2 17:12:00 2019
    On 03-01-19 08:34, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Perhaps, but government control of some things can be a slippery
    slope as well. Not sure I'd want the government controlling my
    access to the internet, and content filtering, and.... such.

    Good points, but government providing infrasture for private companies to sell service on shouldn't be too controversial. One area I really hate privatisation is utilities retailing. All that does is lead to confusion. Everyone's selling the same product on the same infrastructure. At least with ISPs, they do have scope to differentiate their services.


    ... Features should be discovered, not documented.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dmxrob on Sat Mar 2 17:13:00 2019
    On 03-01-19 09:03, Dmxrob wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I know here in the USA we went from a "let's help everyone for the
    common good" society to a "I got mine, screw you" society.

    Sounds like a pretty accurate summary. :(


    ... What is moral is what you feel good after.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to g00r00 on Sat Mar 2 13:26:00 2019
    g00r00 wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    No argument from me on any of that, but that isn't really what we
    were talking about... It was that people "need" broadband access
    to survive/prosper. I maintain that not EVERYONE does.

    Gotcha. I jumped in a little late on this so I didn't read how
    the conversation started. Of course not everyone does, I agree
    with that.

    <THUMBS UP>

    I don't. But I have, and know people who do.

    Yep there certainly are some rural areas that for some reason are
    doing well. Unfortunately not the area that I have ties with, and
    I don't really see a solution to the problems there. :(

    Agreed that not all rural areas are doing well. I think (very)
    large farms and areas with "industry" associated with them (like
    coal mining towns) have serious problems. Seems like small farms
    and "artsy" towns can still make it these days. Perhaps an author
    or somebody that can work from home (without internet).

    Yes, a common thing these days. But again, that is not being
    caused by lack of broadband internet access.

    Probably not often at least but I could see some companies
    needing to be able to adapt and get an online presence to
    survive. If they didn't have that infrastructure they would be
    forced to go somewhere else. Although I think if that was going
    to happen to an established company it already would have by now.

    Sure thing. And if they are a big enough company and can justify
    the cost, they can get the online infrastructure brought in, which
    would benefit all parties I suppose.

    "manufacturing" and related issues. It was simply a claim that
    not everyone must have broadband access to the internet in order
    to be happy and prosper. That's all.

    Well thats certainly true. Especially of the older generations.
    Kids that grow up only on Internet would probably lose their
    minds if they lost it lol.

    Yes indeed!

    It makes my head spin to realize there is an entire grown
    generation of young adults who never lived without the Internet
    in their pocket, let alone Microwaves, mobile phones, and so on.

    I know. It's kinda scary actually. Makes me think they don't
    have any "survival skills" or know how to do common-sense things.
    Go to your local mall on a weekend, and watch the zombies walking
    around while staring at their phones and madly typing out texts...
    Hahaha!

    I worry that we're going to end up with a generation of socially
    inept people because they're taught only how to interact with
    people online anonymously with no consequences.

    I think we've already reached that point. Seriously.

    Although my
    parents probably said the same thing about my generation and the
    music we listened to ruining us so who knows.

    LOL, oh I'm *SURE* my parents said that about me and my friends.
    The funny thing is, I/we turned out just fine, and you know what -
    the current generation will too. I have confidence in that,
    although I do worry about it at the same time. Change is a
    difficult thing to understand and deal with, no doubt.

    I think that percentage is not as high as that, but I completely
    agree (again) with your statement regarding the importance of the
    internet to *URBAN* people. I never said otherwise in previous
    post(s).

    Yep I just wasn't sure if you meant many people meaning everyone
    across our population, or just rural people. Understood.

    As far as population, its kind of interesting to think about it
    and I started reading Wikipedia. There is a chart there that
    lists every state and the percentage of people who are considered
    urban and it seems like 90% could be pretty close.

    My metro area where I live has about 10 times the population of
    the entire state of Wyoming crammed into an area a fraction of
    the size of the state. It kind of makes me want to drive through
    Wyoming someday to see the contrast in population.

    You should definitely do that. While you're there, spend 2-3 days
    in the Yellowstone Nat'l Park. Has to be seen to be believed.

    Yep, and I am one of those people. I was simply trying to point
    out that not everybody is one of those people.

    Agreed. I have to think that those that aren't trapped online
    are a dying breed though. I'm not even really active on social
    media but I somehow still find my way to be stuck in this online
    world with BBSes!

    I'm right there with ya! I prefer the BBS world to the rest of
    it! Maybe "SkyNet" isn't all fictional... :)

    Thanks for the rational discourse on a touchy subject.




    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Vk3jed on Sat Mar 2 13:32:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Perhaps, but government control of some things can be a slippery
    slope as well. Not sure I'd want the government controlling my
    access to the internet, and content filtering, and.... such.

    Good points, but government providing infrasture for private
    companies to sell service on shouldn't be too controversial.

    Provided that's all they (govt) did, sure. I would worry that
    they would want to maintain some kind of "oversight" or control
    content. That's the issue, right there. Kinda like how China
    (and others) regulate what their citizens are allowed to see.

    Plus, there would likely be some "good ole boy network" stuff
    going on. Price/bid fixing and the like. My preference is to
    just keep the government out of it and let the private enterprise
    system work it's magic. :)




    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Dmxrob on Sat Mar 2 15:14:24 2019
    On 28 Feb 2019, Dmxrob said the following...

    Suddenlink. They are the worst of the worst. Where we have our airbnb property at is Suddenlink and they are just pure crap. There we have to use AT&T DSL (no fiber yet).


    Yep! Can't agree more!

    It amazes me in this day and age how far behind we are with broadband deployments in parts of the country. Even when costs for deployments continue to decline.


    It's because they're not required and there's no incentives to build out their infrastructure and upgrade their old their old stuff. It's sad, but what do
    you expect when they're given a monopoly and subsidies just to exist?

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Mar 2 15:22:16 2019
    On 28 Feb 2019, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

    It amazes me in this day and age how far behind we are with broadband deployments in parts of the country. Even when costs for deployments continue to decline.

    Hey, removing net neutrality was supposed to drive INNOVATION and NEXT-GENERATION networking!

    LMAO! Yeah, it's not the first time they lied. lol!

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Dan Clough on Sat Mar 2 16:04:04 2019
    On 28 Feb 2019, Dan Clough said the following...

    Yeah, we call those areas of the country "dead and dying" for a reason. When people grow up, they leave and never come back.

    "We"? You mean "you", I guess. You must have spent your whole
    life in a city and don't know much about anything else.


    I've lived in rural areas where you can't get broadband of any sort. It
    really sucked. Yeah, maybe that's my opinion, but I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

    The people "who want it no other way" are typically older,
    retired people who are living in the past. The same people who
    will vote against any advancement in society or culture because "that's not how we have done it".

    LOL! "Living in the past". Again, you don't know much about
    rural folks, apparently. That's OK though. Believe it or not,
    not everyone in the country is looking to change the way they
    live. They're happy the way they are, and successful in their own
    ways. Might be different than what city-boys and "progressives"
    think, but that's OK too.


    I'm sorry, but even the farmers in my neck of the woods "Amarillo, TX) see a need for a proper Internet connection. They use it daily to do business. We have a couple of wireless ISP's here who saw the opportunity to provide WIMAX/LTE Internet service to those farmers and more rural folks that cable/phone shrugged at.

    No company is coming to an area without broadband access.

    Not everywhere is looking (or wanting) a company to come.


    This reminds me of the little town South of here called Canyon, TX. Walmart wanted to build a Super Center in town there, and the town said no, despite
    the fact that it's a college town. Well, Walmart bought some land just
    outside of the city limits and built anyway. They can't do business without broadband, probably fiber. Not only did they bring more jobs for the locals, but they also brought broadband to the people living in the areas around them.

    No young adult is going to stay in an area without it.

    You might be wrong about that.


    I doubt it. While it may be a minor part of their decision making, it does factor in. Young adults tend to leave rural areas for academic and economic reasons, and don't return. It'd be foolish to think that a lack of broadband doesn't play into it. You really can't build a thriving business anymore without broadband of some sort.

    No community is going to flourish without it.

    Definitely wrong about that. Small town and rural areas are
    flourishing as we speak.


    Rural America is actually dying. https://whr.tn/2SDPde2

    That's just the facts of life. This isn't 1992 and dial-up AOL
    isn't "good enough".

    Hahaha! I don't think AOL even exists any more, does it? You over-estimate the importance of the internet to many people.


    I think you're underestimating the importance of the Internet to both
    commerce and regular folks alike.

    dmxrob = BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988

    Assuming that's true, you'd think you would be old enough to
    understand things better. Oh well. Carry on.


    Hostly, I've been using BBSes since at least 1989, and I'd have to agree
    with dmxrob on a lot of what he said. Understanding something based on ones life experiences should always be taken into account. Just because he sees things differently from you doesn't mean either of you are wrong. You formed you opinions on your life experiences, and he formed his opinion based on his life experiences, just like me. We're all right, to some extent.

    I think there are some young people who are ok never having an Internet connection, never going to college, and taking on the family business, but I also know that many young people leave these rural areas and don't come back because they wish to grow beyond their roots. There's very little incentive to stay rural, outside of tradition.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Dan Clough on Sat Mar 2 16:19:12 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Dan Clough to Vk3jed on Sat Mar 02 2019 08:32 am

    Plus, there would likely be some "good ole boy network" stuff
    going on. Price/bid fixing and the like. My preference is to
    just keep the government out of it and let the private enterprise
    system work it's magic. :)

    And there isn't in private enterprise?

    AT&T, as an example, tried their damndest to make sure they would be the only provider of Internet where I live. It wasn't until our local government fought them tooth and nail, and won that battle, that we got mass fiber expansion by other companies as well as a fiber network run by the city that is far lower in cost and much more reliable than anything AT&T has delivered.




    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Fireball on Sat Mar 2 17:03:00 2019
    Fireball wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I've lived in rural areas where you can't get broadband of any
    sort. It really sucked. Yeah, maybe that's my opinion, but I'm
    not the only one who thinks that way.

    Yes, that would suck, for me too. You are certainly not the only
    one who thinks that way. My whole point to this debate was that
    there *ARE* people for which that is not a concern. Some people
    don't need or want to use the internet. Granted, that group of
    people is relatively small, and probably shrinking, but they do
    exist.

    I'm sorry, but even the farmers in my neck of the woods
    "Amarillo, TX) see a need for a proper Internet connection. They
    use it daily to do business. We have a couple of wireless ISP's
    here who saw the opportunity to provide WIMAX/LTE Internet
    service to those farmers and more rural folks that cable/phone
    shrugged at.

    Yes, it may indeed be needed for most businesses these days. Glad
    they were able to bring more connectivity to those folks.

    This reminds me of the little town South of here called Canyon,
    TX. Walmart wanted to build a Super Center in town there, and the
    town said no, despite the fact that it's a college town. Well,
    Walmart bought some land just outside of the city limits and
    built anyway. They can't do business without broadband, probably
    fiber. Not only did they bring more jobs for the locals, but they
    also brought broadband to the people living in the areas around
    them.

    Again a Good Thing. Somehow I feel like my original point in all
    of this has gotten lost... I am not against increasing access for
    all people, by any means. My original claim was that some people
    CAN and DO live without it, and are perfectly happy with that
    arrangement.

    Hostly, I've been using BBSes since at least 1989, and I'd have
    to agree with dmxrob on a lot of what he said. Understanding
    something based on ones life experiences should always be taken
    into account. Just because he sees things differently from you
    doesn't mean either of you are wrong. You formed you opinions on
    your life experiences, and he formed his opinion based on his
    life experiences, just like me. We're all right, to some extent.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I think there are some young people who are ok never having an
    Internet connection, never going to college, and taking on the
    family business, but I also know that many young people leave
    these rural areas and don't come back because they wish to grow
    beyond their roots. There's very little incentive to stay rural,
    outside of tradition.

    No argument on those points, either. Nothing is constant except
    change, and that's almost always a good thing. It's what keeps
    the world moving.

    Thanks for your thoughts!



    ... Bug free, cheap, on time, works. Pick two.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Dan Clough@21:2/138 to Dmxrob on Sat Mar 2 17:08:00 2019
    Dmxrob wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Plus, there would likely be some "good ole boy network" stuff
    going on. Price/bid fixing and the like. My preference is to
    just keep the government out of it and let the private enterprise
    system work it's magic. :)

    And there isn't in private enterprise?

    Yes, there certainly is. Probably not to the extent that goes on
    with government contracts though.

    AT&T, as an example, tried their damndest to make sure they would
    be the only provider of Internet where I live. It wasn't until
    our local government fought them tooth and nail, and won that
    battle, that we got mass fiber expansion by other companies as
    well as a fiber network run by the city that is far lower in cost
    and much more reliable than anything AT&T has delivered.

    Sounds like a win-win, good on ya's!



    ... I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Sun Mar 3 18:20:00 2019
    On 03-02-19 08:32, Dan Clough wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Provided that's all they (govt) did, sure. I would worry that
    they would want to maintain some kind of "oversight" or control
    content. That's the issue, right there. Kinda like how China
    (and others) regulate what their citizens are allowed to see.

    Well, in practice, the government manages the contracts, but the actual work to build the network is done by private contractors employed by a government owned company. All they do is provide a pipe.

    Plus, there would likely be some "good ole boy network" stuff
    going on. Price/bid fixing and the like. My preference is to
    just keep the government out of it and let the private enterprise
    system work it's magic. :)

    There seems to be more price fixing in private enterprise. Can anyone say "oligarchy"? "collusion"? etc? That takes government oversight to stamp out (through the ACCC). But yeah, government can be wasteful. Another problem, which we had here is a change of government halfway through a project can have far reaching consequences.


    ... ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Fireball on Sun Mar 3 18:53:00 2019
    On 03-02-19 11:04, Fireball wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I'm sorry, but even the farmers in my neck of the woods "Amarillo, TX)
    see a need for a proper Internet connection. They use it daily to do business. We have a couple of wireless ISP's here who saw the
    opportunity to provide WIMAX/LTE Internet service to those farmers and more rural folks that cable/phone shrugged at.

    Australian farmers also make extensive use of the Internet these days, so connectivity is important to agriculture nowadays. There's also more and more services and software specifically targeted at farmers.

    Hostly, I've been using BBSes since at least 1989, and I'd have to
    agree with dmxrob on a lot of what he said. Understanding something
    based on ones life experiences should always be taken into account.
    Just because he sees things differently from you doesn't mean either of you are wrong. You formed you opinions on your life experiences, and he formed his opinion based on his life experiences, just like me. We're
    all right, to some extent.

    Yes, we each bring diferent experiences to the table. Here, smaller towns are often dying out, unless someone intervenes. One good sign is immigrant communities are beginning to settle in rural towns, and where they do, they really bring the town to life with both a tight knit community and by bringing their culture.

    I think there are some young people who are ok never having an Internet connection, never going to college, and taking on the family business,
    but I also know that many young people leave these rural areas and
    don't come back because they wish to grow beyond their roots. There's
    very little incentive to stay rural, outside of tradition.

    Even in the 80s, many young people left the small towns for the city for work, study or a lifestyle change. I was one of them myself in 1991. And that allowed me to start BBSing. :)


    ... Helicopters can't really fly, they are so ugly the earth repels them.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dmxrob on Sun Mar 3 18:56:00 2019
    On 03-02-19 11:19, Dmxrob wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Dan Clough to Vk3jed on Sat Mar 02 2019 08:32 am

    Plus, there would likely be some "good ole boy network" stuff
    going on. Price/bid fixing and the like. My preference is to
    just keep the government out of it and let the private enterprise
    system work it's magic. :)

    And there isn't in private enterprise?

    Precisely. If private enterprise was so good to the consumer, then we wouldn't need government bodies like the ACCC (Australian Consumer and Competition Commision), which oversees the conduct of business and has the power to dish out some harsh penalties for companies found to be in breach of various Acts and regulations pertaining to fair trading and competition.

    AT&T, as an example, tried their damndest to make sure they would be
    the only provider of Internet where I live. It wasn't until our local government fought them tooth and nail, and won that battle, that we got mass fiber expansion by other companies as well as a fiber network run
    by the city that is far lower in cost and much more reliable than
    anything AT&T has delivered.

    I rest my case. :)


    ... Before you find your handsome prince, you've got to kiss a lot of frogs. === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dan Clough on Sun Mar 3 18:57:00 2019
    On 03-02-19 12:03, Dan Clough wrote to Fireball <=-

    Again a Good Thing. Somehow I feel like my original point in all
    of this has gotten lost... I am not against increasing access for
    all people, by any means. My original claim was that some people
    CAN and DO live without it, and are perfectly happy with that
    arrangement.

    And that is true, but they are a minority.


    ... Limitations are stepping stones to creativity.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Vk3jed on Sun Mar 3 18:26:41 2019
    Australian farmers also make extensive use of the Internet these days, so

    I've been to some of those farms in places like Coober Pedy and Kingoonya.
    You gotta plan a weekend trip just to visit your neighbors around there. How
    do they get Internet?

    ╓─────────────────────╖ ╓───────╖ ╓─────────────────────────────────────╖
    *H·U·M·O·N·G·O·U·S* B·B·S nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    ╙─────────────────────╜ ╙───────╜ ╙─────────────────────────────────────╜

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (21:4/123)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to nathanael on Sun Mar 3 22:34:00 2019
    On 03-03-19 13:26, nathanael wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Australian farmers also make extensive use of the Internet these days, so

    I've been to some of those farms in places like Coober Pedy and
    Kingoonya. You gotta plan a weekend trip just to visit your neighbors around there. How do they get Internet?

    The minimum level is satellite. Small rural areas get fixed wireless, larger urban areas get some form of fixed line Internet.


    ... Mashed potatoes with skim milk is like a sports car with an automatic.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Dmxrob on Tue Mar 5 04:36:33 2019
    On 28 Feb 2019, Dmxrob said the following...

    Not to mention the fact that for the better part of a century the telco were given a monopoly over a nationwide infrastructure.

    However, that monopoly also gave us Universal Service - which meant that no matter where you wear, telephone service would be made available.


    They need to do the same with real broadband Internet if they wish to keep their monopolies. It's become as necessary today as the telephone was from
    its roll out until telcos decided it's not important to have a land-line anymore. Otherwise, we need independents who have pole and conduit access to provide competition. As it is now, any independents are basically contractors for the company who has the monopoly in the locale.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From nathanael@21:4/123 to Fireball on Tue Mar 5 20:05:44 2019
    no matter where you wear, telephone service would be made available.

    Ah, at first glance I read that as "no matter what you wear, telephone
    service would be made available" and I was all set for a great discussion of mesh networks and wearable computing.

    *SIGH*

    :-)

    ╓─────────────────────╖ ╓───────╖ ╓─────────────────────────────────────╖
    *H·U·M·O·N·G·O·U·S* B·B·S nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
    ╙─────────────────────╜ ╙───────╜ ╙─────────────────────────────────────╜

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (21:4/123)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Fireball on Tue Mar 5 11:47:00 2019
    Fireball wrote to Dmxrob <=-

    They need to do the same with real broadband Internet if they wish to
    keep their monopolies. It's become as necessary today as the telephone
    was from its roll out until telcos decided it's not important to have a land-line anymore. Otherwise, we need independents who have pole and conduit access to provide competition. As it is now, any independents
    are basically contractors for the company who has the monopoly in the locale.

    2600 magazine has a column called "The Telecom Informer" written by a guy
    who's travelled the world working in telecom. In the USA, he was lamenting
    the CLECs moving their equipment out of the LEC colocation facilities. The telcos were forced to allow resellers to colocate their facilities so they could resell telco services, so the LECs made their services competitive,
    then came up with DSL services that interfered with the colocated services,
    so lots of competitors just gave up. If I can find the article, I'll post
    it.



    ... Have you done something wrong?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org (21:4/122)
  • From Fireball@21:4/145 to Dan Clough on Thu Mar 7 17:17:34 2019
    On 02 Mar 2019, Dan Clough said the following...

    Yes, that would suck, for me too. You are certainly not the only
    one who thinks that way. My whole point to this debate was that
    there *ARE* people for which that is not a concern. Some people
    don't need or want to use the internet. Granted, that group of
    people is relatively small, and probably shrinking, but they do
    exist.


    Bringing up a generalized statement about a mysterious group not wanting
    and/or needing a decent Internet connection, and making it an argument
    against running broadband in rural areas is how the telco's justify their
    lack of build out to those areas. My guess is that those who did not grow up
    or use the Internet and/or computers throughout their lives would be in the group that doesn't care for it. And you'd be right that that group is shrinking.

    Again a Good Thing. Somehow I feel like my original point in all
    of this has gotten lost... I am not against increasing access for
    all people, by any means. My original claim was that some people
    CAN and DO live without it, and are perfectly happy with that arrangement.


    The point that there are *some* people who can and do live without the
    Internet isn't really all that valid when it comes to building out a network. In the grander scheme of things, the Internet has become a basic utility. On the larger scale, this group is a very small minority, and regardless of their interest in the service, it should be at least offered in the are they live.

    Fireball

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Fireball Express!!! Mystic Edition (21:4/145)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Fireball on Fri Mar 8 14:33:00 2019
    On 03-07-19 12:17, Fireball wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    The point that there are *some* people who can and do live without the Internet isn't really all that valid when it comes to building out a network. In the grander scheme of things, the Internet has become a
    basic utility. On the larger scale, this group is a very small
    minority, and regardless of their interest in the service, it should be
    at least offered in the are they live.

    And if the population density is _really_ low, sattelite is one way to cover those areas in one hit. Sure, satellite Internet sucks, but it's better than nothing, or even dialup. Next step up is terrestrial microwave ("fixed wireless" in our NBN speak), which is simple using wireless base stations that cover a specific geographic area and provice services to isolated users within the coverage area. Fibre only needs to be run to select hubs, and the rest is distributed over microwave links - one set for user access, a separate set of links for backhaul to the fibre connection (for those base stations not diesctly connected). Care does need to be taken to ensure that both the user access and backhaul have enough bandwidth to handle the expected traffic. Fixed wireless in some areas of our NBN has suffered from lack of capacity - to the point that the maximum speed plan that fixed wireless users can order has been cut back. But from people I know who now use it, it's a vast improvement on dialup, satellite and dodgy (edge of coverage) 3G/4G services that were the only options until recently.

    The telcos don't have to give everyone a direct fibre connection - that will get uneconomic fast in rural areas.


    ... My kid wanted a watch for Christmas, so we let him.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Dmxrob@21:4/148 to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 8 17:45:24 2019
    Re: Re: Linux Distros
    By: Vk3jed to Fireball on Fri Mar 08 2019 09:33 am

    The telcos don't have to give everyone a direct fibre connection - that will get uneconomic fast in rural areas.

    Replace fiber with "electricity" and this same argument was used back in the 1910's and 20's before people had enough of that nonsense and the TVA and other rural providers came long.


    dmxrob ■ BBSing from St. Louis, Missouri since 1988
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
    * Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (21:4/148)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Dmxrob on Sat Mar 9 11:10:00 2019
    On 03-08-19 12:45, Dmxrob wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Replace fiber with "electricity" and this same argument was used back
    in the 1910's and 20's before people had enough of that nonsense and
    the TVA and other rural providers came long.

    Here, the state government rolled out and ran the power grid until the 1990s, when it was all sold to private interests. Since then, prices have skyrocketed and there's been a massive increase in unwanted phone calls and door - door sales! :/


    ... No Purchase Required. Details in package.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From The Millionaire@21:1/183 to All on Thu Oct 3 10:42:08 2019
    How do you keep up with all the Linux distros out there? I find it mind boggling.
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From Lupine Furmen@21:4/102 to The Millionaire on Thu Oct 3 21:32:24 2019
    I don't even try. I found the one I like and just stick with it.

    -Dallas Vinson

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Before the Web (21:4/102)
  • From The Millionaire@21:1/183 to All on Mon Jan 13 00:24:25 2020
    There are so many Linux distros out there. How do you know which one to use?

    $ The Millionaire $
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to The Millionaire on Mon Jan 13 09:13:00 2020
    The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

    There are so many Linux distros out there. How do you know which
    one to use?

    By trying them all and settling on one that you like best.

    I recommend Slackware.


    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to The Millionaire on Tue Jan 14 02:41:00 2020
    On 01-12-20 19:24, The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

    There are so many Linux distros out there. How do you know which one to use?

    Many ways:

    1. Try some, see which ones you like. Some even offer live systems, so you can try without installing - just boot a DVD or USB.

    2. Ask what others use and why.

    3. If you're installing or planning on installing a specific piece of software, especially some larger packages, check its requirements. Some software either requires, recommends or is only packaged for specific distributions.

    That's just a few suggestions.


    ... 82.6% of statistics are wrong...
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From ToTAL@21:4/136 to The Millionaire on Mon Jan 13 19:17:51 2020
    There are so many Linux distros out there. How do you know which one to use?

    https://distrotest.net/

    //ToTAL

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: ToTAL LoST BBS (21:4/136)
  • From The Millionaire@21:1/183 to ToTAL on Mon Jan 13 16:45:34 2020


    https://distrotest.net/

    //ToTAL

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: ToTAL LoST BBS (21:4/136)


    Cool site! Thanks for the share. Maybe next there will be a mysticbbs test site server.

    $ The Millionaire $
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From Captain Obvious@21:1/157 to The Millionaire on Mon Jan 13 21:26:59 2020
    On 13 Jan 2020, The Millionaire said the following...

    Cool site! Thanks for the share. Maybe next there will be a mysticbbs
    test site server.

    They are called BBSes.

    -=>Richard Miles<=-
    -=>Captain Obvious<=-
    -=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: * Shadowscope BBS * (21:1/157)
  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to The Millionaire on Tue Jan 14 14:42:00 2020

    The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

    There are so many Linux distros out there. How do you know which
    one to use?

    Set fire to them all, and use the one that burns for the longest...

    Spec


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
    --- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
    * Origin: Scrawled in haste at The Lower Planes (21:3/101)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to The Millionaire on Mon Jan 13 23:22:26 2020
    The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

    There are so many Linux distros out there. How do you know which one to use?

    There used to be a website called linuxcentral.com. They sold linux CDs
    for US$1, plus shipping (IIRC). I ordered a bunch of those CDs from
    them... back before I had proper internet where I could download images easily... and tried them out until I found one that was easy to install and that worked on my hardware.

    It was a debian derivative. The guy who was maintaining it passed on, unfortunately, not long after I started using it. So, I migrated to debian proper.


    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely small values of 5
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Phoobar@21:2/147 to Blue White on Mon Jan 13 22:24:20 2020
    There used to be a website called linuxcentral.com. They sold linux CDs for US$1, plus shipping (IIRC). I ordered a bunch of those CDs from them... back before I had proper internet where I could download images easily... and tried them out until I found one that was easy to install and that worked on my hardware.

    I remember this. Used to order a bunch of CD's when I only had dial-up. Would be surprised if I had one of those around.

    Phoobar/ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/SpookNet.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: ACME BBS-I taut I taw a puddy tat! (21:2/147)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Blue White on Tue Jan 14 11:48:00 2020
    Blue White wrote to The Millionaire <=-

    There used to be a website called linuxcentral.com. They sold linux
    CDs for US$1, plus shipping (IIRC).

    I remember collecting white-label CDs, when I was on a 384k/128k DSL line...

    :)


    ... Emphasize repetitions
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org (21:4/122)
  • From Grease@21:4/10 to The Millionaire on Tue Jan 14 17:03:00 2020
    Re: Linux Distros
    By: The Millionaire to All on Sun Jan 12 2020 07:24 pm

    There are so many Linux distros out there. How do you know which one to use?

    Manjaro.

    Grease
    darkmatt.synchro.net

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ DARK MATTER BBS <<*>> darkmatt.synchro.net <<*>> Howdy, Y'all!
    * Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)
  • From Dr. What@21:1/194 to The Millionaire on Wed Jan 15 23:15:00 2020
    The Millionaire wrote to All <=-

    There are so many Linux distros out there. How do you know which one to use?

    It depends on what you want to do.

    Are you looking at just getting rid of Windows and just use it as a normal desktop? You probably want to check out Linux Mint or Ubuntu.

    Is this for a Raspberry Pi? Then for normal desk top use, go with Raspian. But if you want to create a media device, OpenElec works really nice.

    And there's more.

    This is one question where if you ask 20 people, you will get at least 10 different answers - all of which are correct.


    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    * Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS bbs.dmine.net:24 (21:1/194)
  • From Betz@21:1/999 to Dr. What on Wed Jan 22 04:49:00 2020
    If you like the older distros of linux on RaspberryPi, they also have
    slackware and centOS server for that platform as well. i would not mind
    trying centOS minimum install on a newer raspberry pi.
    -Betz

    Thanks,
    - Betz
    "By your command..."

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Cylon Hive (21:1/999)